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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On April 27 2011 01:41 Fryght wrote:
After they took out amulet, I feel that terran has the advantage, as their ghosts spawn with EMP ready. EMP spam on a protoss army takes off a lot of shield, which is essentially a lot of RAW damage, as well as draining loads of energy on the HTs and sentries. After that, one viking salvo will kill just about any Colossus, after which you are left with a bunch of gateway units without FFs. Why ghosts spawn with EMP ready is behond me.
Unless you are referring to Moebius Reactor being researched, Ghosts spawn with 50 energy while EMP costs 75.
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United States7483 Posts
On April 27 2011 01:44 Valckrie wrote:
Archon being massive means they won't be affected by concussive shells; it says at the top =.=
Hope these changes go forward, they sound pretty good.
It also means it can't be lifted by phoenix, and takes bonus damage from void rays.
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It's gonna be fun seeing the influx of 2 gates on the ladder if these changes stay.
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fuck blizzard for nerfing Terran every single patch FUCK YOU
User was banned for this post.
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Hopefully straight up gateway use will be seen more, and less rushes will occur. Spore crawler time was really needed, as detection/AA is very important.
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On April 27 2011 01:53 GravityThree wrote:
fuck blizzard for nerfing Terran every single patch FUCK YOU
Grow up, you got cheaper ghosts
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51730 Posts
On April 27 2011 01:53 GravityThree wrote:
fuck blizzard for nerfing Terran every single patch FUCK YOU
your logic behind this statement must be like really good.
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i wonder if archons being massive will still allow them to be moved by smaller units while they're merging. and if so, will you be able to push them onto force fields to destroy them before merging is complete?
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I think the weirdest thing is that Archons can now destroy forcefields which just seems odd as they don't seem that big when compared to Thors, Ultras and Collosus who can and other units like Immortals which are pretty big, but can't break force fields. Cosmic energy to disintegrate them?
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On April 27 2011 01:28 SpaceYeti wrote:EDIT: I really wish they'd just up Corruptor range to 8 or 9. 
That.. would actually be really interesting. Protoss would actually have to worry about protecting their Colossi, which makes complete sense since they're the main damage dealers.
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if archons are massive while merging, I guess its possible to use a merging archon as a battering ram to break through force fields?
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On April 27 2011 01:45 SKYFISH_ wrote:build time for a zealot with chronoboost is now 23 seconds and comes before the first marine? lol time to star working on those 1rax fast inbase bunker builds I guess thankfully you can salvage bunkers for their full cost so you wont be that far behind after you hold off the rush oh,wait.... 
25 minerals lost... gg
I think it's silly damage isn't accounted for at all in salvaging a bunker. You could still even SCV repair them to get the full value back if it was a defensive bunker and worth the cost. I think most people have a problem with seeing a bunker being salvaged while under attack.
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On April 27 2011 01:32 silverhand wrote:
Other than the ghost cost change (casting units should always be gas heavy), I really like these changes, although having not played prior to the zealot nerf when 2 gates were more viable, I feel like all my builds as protoss will have to be re-explored as skipping WG until mid-game is a very enticing strat for those of us that like the Tyler/Adel gateway heavy builds.
I'd have to wait until it goes live to test, but based on timings, it would appear that a 4gate on short rush distances would still be viable although not an every game strat, which I really like.
Timing: WG research increased by 40 seconds...proper WG timing pre-1.3.3 has your 4 gates finishing @ or slightly before WG finishes for immediate conversion to WG and warpin at proxy. With Stalker build time reduced to 37 seconds, you can essentially pump out your initial 4 stalkers you would normally warpin and rally them to proxy pylon where they would arrive at the proxy pylon close to the time the WG conversion finishes on short rush distance maps. So instead of your rush hitting at 6 min with 5 stalkers and 1 zealot, you have it hitting ~15 seconds later with 9 stalkers and 1 zealot or any other mixture of zealot/stalker you prefer.
I can't wait until this goes live on PTR so I can begin testing new builds. I can already see some potential builds to test:
2 gate FE - allows you to defend proxy gates (can just skip expand if proxy is scouted, or cancel once proxy rush hits making sure you have an early sentry to block main ramp and reinforce for the eventual push.
3 gate blink w/earlier transitions into any templar tech
2 gate/robo with heavy immortal composition
new 5 gate one-base all-in
Faster Tyler double forge timing push against terran bio openings.
Fun with Hallucinations vs Zerg
Possible viable 2 gate/Stargate openings - faster build times allow you to get more defensive units out while getting Voids slightly sooner.
It really fundamentally changes Protoss builds, but in a way that is exciting as a protoss player.
Definitely. Can't wait to see how this all pans out.
I'm super optimistic, given that players of every race seem to be bitching like theres no tomorrow, that this patch will make the game even more balanced and fun
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On April 27 2011 01:44 -{Cake}- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:42 Ribbon wrote:On April 27 2011 01:28 SpaceYeti wrote:On April 27 2011 01:24 Ribbon wrote:
Fun fact
Even against massive, Spore Crawlers have more DPS that Corruptors and over double the HP. Counting the 50 minerals for the drone, they cost the same amount of minerals/larva and 0 gas and 0 supply.
Obviously, they have a bit less range and a lot less mobility, but I'm *REALLY* interested in trying to fit spores into my army and getting fewer corrupters more hydra/infestors/roach/whatever.
Yeah yeah, Colos outrange, but you can pick them up and relocate. The big pain of the Deathball is that it can kill your army and walk into your main before you remax, so even slowing it down is interesting.
I definitely want to try it out. Spore crawlers actually have greater range, 7 for a SC vs 6 for a corruptor. Of course, It's the mobility that's really an issue, and the fact that they are ground targetable. They also cost 25 less minerals. EDIT: I really wish they'd just up Corruptor range to 8 or 9. Even better, then. . I'm really excited about "static" D being in my army. I don't know if it's "good" or even "cute", but it's kind of a cool idea and I really like it. Reminds me of siege tanks, should be interesting
Don't know if I'd go that far (BUT WOULDN'T THAT BE AWESOME), but it has the potential to make ZvP more interesting to watch, and alleviate balance issues a little. Probably not enough, but a little.
Though, actually, for about the cost of a tank you could get 3-4 spores. That can be tank-like against VR/Colo
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On April 27 2011 01:40 ZergMaestro wrote:
You know when players of every race are bitching about imba balance stuff. that the game is getting more, and more balanced. :3
lol, totally agree.
Except Terran can't really complain atm: "Whaaah Bunker's aren't free anymore".
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On April 27 2011 01:57 NgrySqrrl wrote:
i wonder if archons being massive will still allow them to be moved by smaller units while they're merging. and if so, will you be able to push them onto force fields to destroy them before merging is complete?
Ah Massive does that mean they'll be Forcefield Breakers too!
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Instead of the 100% to 75% salvage cost change, what do you guys think of the salvage ability to function like shield regeneration, i.e. it happens only out of combat. So if you are salvaging a bunker and someone attacks it, then salvage stops for X seconds. That way salvage works as intended to reposition bunkers defensively, like spine crawler roots, but it is not free during combat. Thoughts?
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Great Patch, I love blizz's small approach. Observing the meta game then making slow but sure small tweaks while we get closer and closer to a balanced game.
The ghost change is so fucking awesome and should help the T late game alot vs P which is much needed. At the same time reducing the amount of Protoss 4 gate/3 gate pressure that was really ruining alot of T's options early game(Having to play safe on Tal'darim was just like wtf?)
All the pieces are coming together guys, you have to keep being patient, theres not going to be one magic patch that will do it all. Blizz is taking the right approach, tons of small patches that keep balancing hte races further and further.
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On April 27 2011 02:04 xsevR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:45 SKYFISH_ wrote:build time for a zealot with chronoboost is now 23 seconds and comes before the first marine? lol time to star working on those 1rax fast inbase bunker builds I guess thankfully you can salvage bunkers for their full cost so you wont be that far behind after you hold off the rush oh,wait.... 25 minerals lost... gg I think it's silly damage isn't accounted for at all in salvaging a bunker. You could still even SCV repair them to get the full value back if it was a defensive bunker and worth the cost. I think most people have a problem with seeing a bunker being salvaged while under attack.
Repair costs money, not to mention scv mining time. That being said though 25 minerals isn't a big deal, but they need to decrease the build time considering fast zealots are now an issue.
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On April 26 2011 11:24 Xapti wrote:
ROFL WAFL
Patch 16: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38.
Patch 17: Zealot build time decreased from 38 to 33.
Patch 1.1.0: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38.
Patch 1.3.3: Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.
WTF M8?
Am I the only one that have seen this?
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EPT
