Patch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 89
Forum Index > SC2 General |
Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong. It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. | ||
Gaspa
Brazil109 Posts
| ||
KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
| ||
Trawler
Sweden382 Posts
They did this because 2gate was too strong on maps like Stepps of War. Patch 1.3.3: Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33. ... Now when Zelots will train as fast as they did when they we're imballenced we still have stepps of war, in form of Close postition spawns. I think toss will just overrun ppl in the begining of the game. Or even proxy more often. Poor zergs, all I have to say. | ||
Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On April 27 2011 02:44 Trawler wrote: Patch 1.1.0: Zealot build time increased from 33 to 38. They did this because 2gate was too strong on maps like Stepps of War. Patch 1.3.3: Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33. ... Now when Zelots will train as fast as they did when they we're imballenced we still have stepps of war, in form of Close postition spawns. I think toss will just overrun ppl in the begining of the game. Or even proxy more often. Poor zergs, all I have to say. we just cant fast expand as much. instead go into speedling expand. | ||
Trawler
Sweden382 Posts
On April 27 2011 02:45 Golgotha wrote: we just cant fast expand as much. instead go into speedling expand. This, is in itself a hugh nerf to zerg. | ||
Neo.NEt
United States785 Posts
| ||
clusen
Germany8702 Posts
On April 27 2011 02:45 Golgotha wrote: we just cant fast expand as much. instead go into speedling expand. You can't expand fast anyway on maps where this can get problematic. Or do you fast expand at Slag Shit or DQ? And 4Gate got nerfed in that matchup. | ||
Roxy
Canada753 Posts
On April 26 2011 11:20 Jimbo77 wrote: Balance PROTOSS Archons are now a massive unit. This is a good change to see as archons were underused and what little use we saw of them evaporated with the nerf to the HT. They were simply a byproduct of an energyless HT. The thing about archons is that they morph so slow that in any battle that they would have been useful, the battle is over (victory or defeat) before the archon actually transforms. Because of this, you enter a battle with HT that can storm OR Archons. It is very rarely one then the other. Im interested to see how this will play against a bio terran army. I think that archons will be a huge damage tank (especially with the 100 limit to how much EMP can do to sheilds). I'm not sure if they will be worth the cost of 150/450 gas just to be cannon fodder though (granted more effective fodder than previously). As archons were rarely (if ever) the optimal unit for attacking zerg, I dont think this will have any effect on this matchup. The thing about units that are effectively melee against zerg is that melee units take damage that would otherwise not be dealt (because of forcefeilds keeping part of the zerg army out of firing range). Having melee units in your protoss ball provides no net gain. IMO, archons need a little more love from blizzard Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5. I think this will help to reduce the effectiveness of the 4-gate as well as prevent lots of canon cheese that you see in games. I’m worried that this may make the protoss base more cluttered as it is harder to place buildings and warp units in around those buildings. Should be a negligable difference that can be mitigated with a bit of practice and planning. I think a more appropriate change would be to now allow pylons to power the high ground (low ground is fine though) Cybernetics Core - Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180 Gateway - Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37. - Stalker train time decreased from 42 to 37. - Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33. - Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged. This is a profound change that will change nearly every aspect of the early protoss game. Entire build orders and timings will need to be reworked. Whether this is optimal or not, is too early to tell. This is a huge setback as far as protoss metagame goes because all strategies will need to be reworked for timing purposes. Having said that, I like the possibility that we will have the oportunity to put some early pressure on terran and zerg. As a protoss, I have found that it seems that terran and zerg can take a fast expansion essentially for free (as in, if we all-in 4-gate the fast expansion from the T or Z, if they don’t make some huge mistake, they WILL stop the 4-gate. I don’t agree with the cheese possibilities of the zealot time reduction, but I think that the early pressure that we will be able to put on will be able to punish a zerg who goes for a 14 hatch or a terran that gets a 15 CC or goes for a straight banshee rush – who knows, maybe Sjow is going to have to start scouting before the 7 minute mark now :D TERRAN Ghost - Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. I understand that ghosts are not as effective as they used to be, but I still think they are more effective than they aught to be. Terran is already the least gas heavy race, and this change only allows them to further exploit the fact that two bases gives them enough gas to fill out all of their tech trees with a balanced army. Other races, (off of two bases) need to make choices. 2 bases supports 4 gates and 1 robo. 2 bases supports roach hydra OR muta OR roach infestor Im also scared of the early timing attacks that this might introduce in tandem with the delayed warp gate time. I think that the reduced gas cost is to help the TvZ matchup and the infestor strength (a topic I am not qualified to discuss). Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%. Its about time this change took effect. 100% salvage was ridiculous. This will punish cheese with a marginal loss for the terran player. ZERG Spore Crawler Root time decreased from 12 to 6. This will help them defend against early air pressure. Seems fine to me, I don’t imagine this will have any huge impact on the game. Bug Fixes Fixed a bug where Ghosts could not quickly EMP the same location. Fixed a bug where players were still able to stack flying units on top of each other. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662 IMO Ghost cost change is a little buff. And zerg buff once again. Nothing concerning expected infestors nerf, sadly. | ||
Toads
Canada1795 Posts
On April 27 2011 02:51 clusen wrote: You can't expand fast anyway on maps where this can get problematic. Or do you fast expand at Slag Shit or DQ? And 4Gate got nerfed in that matchup. I think he didn't say those map because most of the zerg veto those map xD | ||
Joementum
787 Posts
On April 27 2011 02:45 Golgotha wrote: we just cant fast expand as much. instead go into speedling expand. That's already a huge nerf to Zerg. Protoss can now go fast-2 gate Zealot pressure into expand while Zerg has to sit pretty and defend it with all his/her larva. The protoss is going to have more workers and will have his expansion up quicker than the Zergs. This is going to trigger Zergs to all-in almost every game that has some 2-gate pressure. That's just my view. It makes the game way too one-dimensional. It forces Zerg to open up with one build and one build only against Protoss. | ||
Necro)Phagist(
Canada6518 Posts
God forbid a race expanding first should be able to be punished by a cheesy all in... the fact that zergs could survive rushes going hatch first before was kinda fucked up. Yes I know in BW thats all zergs did and they need more hatch's for larvae.. but this is sc2 bot bw and with queen larvae inject zergs should have to atleast drop a pool before hatch now.. | ||
clusen
Germany8702 Posts
On April 27 2011 02:53 StoLiVe wrote: I think he didn't say those map because most of the zerg veto those map xD But most other maps are not that problematic in that regard, 2Gate pressure may be strong against Zerg after the patch , but that does not mean imbalanced. And proxies are a different case, they are a cheesy all-in, while 2Gate pressure is not. | ||
Velr
Switzerland10600 Posts
This could make the 2 Gate expand way harder to actually hold and make it pretty risky? (if you seriously have gone 2 gate pressure before it). | ||
Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On April 27 2011 02:21 Haydin wrote: What about using queens with your spores/in addition to them? You could ferry them out with OLs or nydus. They also have fantastic AA range vs collo and VRs, and can also heal spores/each other, as well as any broodlords or ultras you have. Maaaaaybe, but you can't just "have" a lot of queens the way you can throw down a few spores, or recycle spores you made earlier from phoenix/DT defense into part of your army. "A lot of queens" affects the whole build in the way "some spores" doesn't. | ||
clusen
Germany8702 Posts
On April 27 2011 02:58 Velr wrote: I could be wrong here, but wasn't the last time the Zealot was -5 secs before the Roach range buff? This could make the 2 Gate expand way harder to actually hold and make it pretty risky? (if you seriously have gone 2 gate pressure before it). Roach range buff was after release, Zealot build time got decreased in the beta. Since you can't rely solely on cannons anymore to defend you could be right in that regard :p | ||
sOvrn
United States678 Posts
| ||
risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
On April 27 2011 02:52 Roxy wrote: This is my analysis of the PTR patch from a masters protoss perspective Archons doesn't cost 150/450 // 2xHT= 150/300 2xDT= 250/250 HT+DT= 200/275 I also think this will make archons with guardian shields viable vs terran bio and the pylon nerf will make it easier to scout and hold cannonrushes. | ||
superxmikey
United States28 Posts
Rather, what blizzard should do is allow buildings to be placed still in the 7.5 range and units cannot spawn after the 6.5 range. Honestly, this coding should not be difficult and 2 rings can indicate the unit spawn and building placement, maybe darker ring for units? But changing the radius of the pylon is an easier fix so.... laziness? | ||
zhouzhou
Canada138 Posts
Or better yet, keep the build times the same for gateways. Add a benefit to warpgate research. Not only does it reduce the build time in gateways by 10 seconds, it gives you the ability to warp them in anywhere at the longer cool down. Damn, this idea is pretty good... | ||
DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On April 27 2011 03:06 superxmikey wrote: The pylon radius nerf seems a little strange. Rather, what blizzard should do is allow buildings to be placed still in the 7.5 range and units cannot spawn after the 6.5 range. Honestly, this coding should not be difficult and 2 rings can indicate the unit spawn and building placement, maybe darker ring for units? But changing the radius of the pylon is an easier fix so.... laziness? That's unnecessarily complicated? Pylons have a "building radius" and a "unit radius" that are allllmost the same?? Should Warp Prisms have double radii as well? Hey, that actually will make some of the 2v2 PZ warp-in cheese weaker too! Hooray! Or better yet, keep the build times the same for gateways. Add a benefit to warpgate research. Not only does it reduce the build time in gateways by 10 seconds, it gives you the ability to warp them in anywhere at the longer cool down. Damn, this idea is pretty good... I actually thought they were going to do this before they released the notes. Adding more of a "defender's advantage" to PvP. | ||
| ||