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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On April 27 2011 02:05 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:44 -{Cake}- wrote:On April 27 2011 01:42 Ribbon wrote:On April 27 2011 01:28 SpaceYeti wrote:On April 27 2011 01:24 Ribbon wrote:
Fun fact
Even against massive, Spore Crawlers have more DPS that Corruptors and over double the HP. Counting the 50 minerals for the drone, they cost the same amount of minerals/larva and 0 gas and 0 supply.
Obviously, they have a bit less range and a lot less mobility, but I'm *REALLY* interested in trying to fit spores into my army and getting fewer corrupters more hydra/infestors/roach/whatever.
Yeah yeah, Colos outrange, but you can pick them up and relocate. The big pain of the Deathball is that it can kill your army and walk into your main before you remax, so even slowing it down is interesting.
I definitely want to try it out. Spore crawlers actually have greater range, 7 for a SC vs 6 for a corruptor. Of course, It's the mobility that's really an issue, and the fact that they are ground targetable. They also cost 25 less minerals. EDIT: I really wish they'd just up Corruptor range to 8 or 9.  Even better, then. . I'm really excited about "static" D being in my army. I don't know if it's "good" or even "cute", but it's kind of a cool idea and I really like it. Reminds me of siege tanks, should be interesting Don't know if I'd go that far (BUT WOULDN'T THAT BE AWESOME), but it has the potential to make ZvP more interesting to watch, and alleviate balance issues a little. Probably not enough, but a little. Though, actually, for about the cost of a tank you could get 3-4 spores. That can be tank-like against VR/Colo
What about using queens with your spores/in addition to them? You could ferry them out with OLs or nydus. They also have fantastic AA range vs collo and VRs, and can also heal spores/each other, as well as any broodlords or ultras you have.
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I love the ghost change, this is going to make TvT even more interesting
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I wonder if the reduction in build time means that protoss can go 3 gate on 2 gas to stop a 4 gate. The extra 40 seconds is basically 1 cycle of units. If you used 3 chrono boosts on a gateway instead of the warpgates, I bet you can have more units than a 4 gate.
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Protoss. I love this patch. I was always annoyed when they messed with zealot build time in the first place. Yes proxies are slightly better, but still pretty terrible on most maps. Archon change is by far my favorite, and in general I think this patch has enough changes to significantly change the game without breaking it in the Toss's favor. I doubt it will go through as it is, damnit now I gotta play some PTR games.
Omg gateways might have a purpose over warpgates?!?!?!?!
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i wonder how 2gating will pan out post this patch, zergs did learn to survive 2rax so...
spines should have the same times as spores imo
the gateway/warp should be a choice, not just warpgates off the bat
love the salvage change, its still great for terrans, but makes it a little bit more of an investment
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They changed the bunker again!
Oh lord :D
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I know a lot of people are really upset about the zealot build buff, but don't they realize that the majority of maps are much larger than they used to be? We ain't on steppes of war, folks...
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On April 27 2011 02:04 xsevR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 01:45 SKYFISH_ wrote:build time for a zealot with chronoboost is now 23 seconds and comes before the first marine? lol time to star working on those 1rax fast inbase bunker builds I guess thankfully you can salvage bunkers for their full cost so you wont be that far behind after you hold off the rush oh,wait....  25 minerals lost... gg I think it's silly damage isn't accounted for at all in salvaging a bunker. You could still even SCV repair them to get the full value back if it was a defensive bunker and worth the cost. I think most people have a problem with seeing a bunker being salvaged while under attack.
1/4 of the price lost
25%
when was the last time something was nerfed by 1/4?
and while in reality it may not be that big of a deal, its still another nail in the coffin.
proxy zealot rushes are quite effective as they are, no need to cripple Terran's chances of a comeback even more.
And consider the following - a fully loaded bunker costs a total of 300 minerals and takes up 4 supply, keeping it alive costs additional minerals.
In theory the salvage was supposed to make up for that.
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Blizzard really hates our bunkers....
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On April 26 2011 11:21 neobowman wrote:
Spore Crawler change: Holy shit, I love this! Such a brilliant change.
Pylon power radius seems pretty random though.
More bunker changes! Though I admit that I actually like this one.
I have a feeling that 2 gate early game will actually be used now.
This would change the whole, warping in units thing with an undetected pylon down your base.
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On April 27 2011 02:33 Blasterion wrote:
Blizzard really hates our bunkers....
its still an improvement over sc1 bunkers.
i agree that 100% made it unique, but 75% isn't bad, its certainly better than having to destroy it.
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In HotS, the bunker will be removed from Terran and given to Zerg.
Seriously blizzard, leave the bunker alone.
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On April 27 2011 00:28 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 22:47 rale wrote:On April 26 2011 22:35 Whitewing wrote:On April 26 2011 22:33 Whalecore wrote:On April 26 2011 22:27 Omegasad wrote:
Archons crushing forcefields in PvP
can anyone imagine that happening? So much gas.. And I think a Zealot/Colossi army will crush a Zealot/Archon army any day It will, colossi balls own archon/immortal balls. You can rush to archons much faster than you can rush to colossus. Twilight council and templar archives are both 50 seconds, compared to 65 for robo facility and robo bay, plus another 75 for a colossus. Getting an archon and using it to bust the ramp could prove viable against someone trying to go colossus. Not sure, it's incredibly mineral & gas intensive to get 1 Archon using 2 HTs, I think you underestimate it. Twilight (150/100) + Templar Archives (200/200) + 2x HT (100/300), for a grand total of 450/600. Yes, Robotics Facility (200/100) + Robotics Bay (200/200) + Collosus (300/200) is also 700/500, BUT he can actually scout you using an Observer and will probably skip the Collosus and just get more Stalkers or Immortals. But let's say he does get Collosus; since you spent roughly the same amount of resources (you 250 minerals less, but 100 gas more) your armies will be about equal and he has the defender's advantage. Not even sure if you have enough gas to actually rush it as hard as you want, any early pressure will probably rape you as a Sentry really cannot be part of it, either. But since the Twilight and Templar Archives build so fast, I don't think you will even have the 200/200 for archives ready after twilight, and the 300 gas for 2 x HT after archives  All in all, rushing to an Archon in PvP seems like suicide to me. How do you even know he is in fact rushing to Collosus, you cannot scout properly without Robo. But perhaps this should be tried out a bit first. As both of you need all the gas, both will probably have mainly Zealots, and the Archon does deal bonus + splash to them.
Don't forget that DT"s can also make Archon. If you ever watched BW, DT rush in PvP was a viable strategy. Maybe blizzard is trying to implement that option again by disallowing contain w/ sentry? Just a thought.
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On April 26 2011 22:41 Chicken Chaser wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 22:38 Sanguinarius wrote:
I seriously LOVE massive archons. They have needed to do that for so long. What if they change the Archon size too to be like a Thor? And then increase splash radius? Walking Psi Storm on the loose!
Colossus is the word you are looking for.
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facinating that the fact they're preventing stacking is getting so little discussion. I'm really lost here, why doesn't ppl care about this. I don't really know the importance of it in sc2 though but is't a core mechanic in bw 
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On April 27 2011 02:33 SKYFISH_ wrote:
And consider the following - a fully loaded bunker costs a total of 300 minerals and takes up 4 supply, keeping it alive costs additional minerals.
In theory the salvage was supposed to make up for that.
In theory the fact that the fully loaded bunker saved your ass and the ass of your marines makes up for the cost, not salvage.
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On April 27 2011 02:35 Deltablazy wrote:
In HotS, the bunker will be removed from Terran and given to Zerg.
Seriously blizzard, leave the bunker alone.
haah i lol'ed :D
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On April 27 2011 01:41 Fryght wrote:
After they took out amulet, I feel that terran has the advantage, as their ghosts spawn with EMP ready. EMP spam on a protoss army takes off a lot of shield, which is essentially a lot of RAW damage, as well as draining loads of energy on the HTs and sentries. After that, one viking salvo will kill just about any Colossus, after which you are left with a bunch of gateway units without FFs. Why ghosts spawn with EMP ready is behond me. If you're lucky you can feedback them, but then ghosts can also cloak. Having an obs ready will usually not enable you to kill off the ghosts BEFORE they spam their EMP.
Or am I the only one that thinks that EMP is really strong, compared to the current state of Storm?
Keep in mind that:
a) Unless the Protoss are already on your production facilities (and the terran is probably screwed already) you have to walk you ghost to the front while one pylon nearby means that Protoss can spawn HTs right on the front
b) If you have warpgates off cooldown (basically given once you hit max) if you decided you needed storm, it took 5 seconds to get a templar out, while a Terran needs to wait 40 seconds for the ghost to spawn.
That is my view on the removal of the Amulet. Especially since when you get into a bankrolled situation, Protoss Warpgates are already a huge advantage (reinforcements at the front within 10 seconds of the first losses, terrans have them in their base well after that.
As for the people saying that Protoss will switch to just building out of gateways, not going to happen. The main value of warpgates was that you decide which unit you want at the end of a production cycle (where in gateways you decide at the start) and can get the units where you want them far more quickly. The build speed was more of an afterthought.
I think it's silly damage isn't accounted for at all in salvaging a bunker. You could still even SCV repair them to get the full value back if it was a defensive bunker and worth the cost. I think most people have a problem with seeing a bunker being salvaged while under attack.
Nah, the 75% is great. Essentially all it is now is that you can cancel a bunker after it is finished. After all, if you stop construction of a building 99% complete with 1 HP left you still get the 75% back (and for zergs a full health drone).
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On April 27 2011 02:33 SKYFISH_ wrote:
1/4 of the price lost
25%
when was the last time something was nerfed by 1/4?
Pylon power area is reduced by 1/4 (25%) on PTR as well They just put it in radius in the patch notes to make it sound less extreme.
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EPT
