Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully.

orotoss

United States298 Posts

April 26 2011 02:43 GMT

#121

Why is everyone so excited about massive archons? You do realize that they can still be slowed by concussive shells and held in place by fungal right? Ultralisks are the only unit with immunity to ensare abilities.

So all the archon change means is that they will crush forcefields and can't be picked up by phoenix. If anything, its a nerf since they will accidentally crush the protoss players own forcefields.

I think this was more of a lore-wise change. Archons are so freaking big that they may as well be considered massive.

EDIT: Wow I guess they can't be slowed by concussive shells anymore. Awesome change!

sAfuRos

United States743 Posts

April 26 2011 02:43 GMT

#122

On April 26 2011 11:42 Alejandrisha wrote:
Errbody do the massive archon dance

And it does mean no concussive. Never noticed your colossi don't get slowed by it?

More like e'rybody do the proxy 2-gate dance

;;

Dalguno

United States2446 Posts

April 26 2011 02:43 GMT

#123

Ah, I thought it said spine crawler, not spore crawler

super bummer.

Toads

Canada1795 Posts

April 26 2011 02:43 GMT

#124

This patch is sooooooooooooo big. IMO it'll gonna be change the meta game. I would still want to see like the gateway make unit faster than warpgate.

This can creat pretty good strategy like you have to choose between you make army faster but at your base or you make the unit where ever you want but slower

Bobster

Germany3075 Posts

April 26 2011 02:44 GMT

#125

Everyone crying "oh no 2Gate Zealots!!" now - that's exactly what the PTR is for.

I don't believe it'll be a problem, it'll just reinforce the importance of properly scouting for proxies.

windsupernova

Mexico5280 Posts

April 26 2011 02:44 GMT

#126

On April 26 2011 11:38 sAfuRos wrote:
@windsupernova
I agree. Blizzard should calm down with the damn patches

Yeah, I've been thinking those for months. Still I can't say I don't love the Archon change. But I can't really blame Blizzard when the community is the one doing a bunch of crying all the time :\

I just wish Blizzard stopped balance patches for a while.I may even say that this should be the last one IMO. The community still seems like patch junkies

sAfuRos

United States743 Posts

April 26 2011 02:44 GMT

#127

On April 26 2011 11:43 orotoss wrote:
Why is everyone so excited about massive archons? You do realize that they can still be slowed by concussive shells and held in place by fungal right? Ultralisks are the only unit with immunity to ensare abilities.

So all the archon change means is that they will crush forcefields and can't be picked up by phoenix. If anything, its a nerf since they will accidentally crush the protoss players own forcefields.

I think this was more of a lore-wise change. Archons are so freaking big that they may as well be considered massive.

No...god damn it, have you ever seen a colossi get slowed?

Wait, i'll answer - NO

Bobster

Germany3075 Posts

April 26 2011 02:44 GMT

#128

Archons can not be slowed by concussive shells with this patch.

KevinIX

United States2472 Posts

April 26 2011 02:45 GMT

#129

Of course this comes out the day 1-minute 4 gate video came out.

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

April 26 2011 02:45 GMT

#130

Don't think two proxy gate will be a problem anymore.

There are no longer 2 player maps with super short rush distances. People will have to scout around on Xel'Naga for sure though. Maps in general are much bigger now than they were last year, so this isn't that big of an issue.

People have also gotten better at microing and holding off those kinds of rushes.

DNA61289

United States665 Posts

April 26 2011 02:45 GMT

#131

Archon rush in PvP anyone? since they crush FF and if you go for HT then you will have a a lot of minerals left over. Not to mention Archons do 35 damage to zealots and stalkers only do 10.

Gentso

United States2218 Posts

April 26 2011 02:45 GMT

#132

Well looks like we'll be seeing more ghosts mid to late game. : )

noobcakes

United States526 Posts

April 26 2011 02:45 GMT

#133

Stim research time = Warpgate time.

I have a cold shiver on how this change will play out for PvT.

Cloud9157

United States2968 Posts

April 26 2011 02:45 GMT

#134

On April 26 2011 11:37 windsupernova wrote:
Hmmm, I don't think I like the warpgate change too much. 4Gate was never an issue and I really think that the pylon radius change will help on PvP.

One thing I hate is that Blizzard is just nerfing and nerfing early game. They might as well make a nr 20 mins rule now.

Are you kidding me? 4 gate was a huge issue. PvP was a disgraceful matchup that revolved around 4 gate. A proper 4 gate would take down everything pretty much. A few things could stop it (3 gate robo with near-perfect control of units).

PvP basically became 4 gate vs 4 gate. It completely discouraged a mid game PvP, not even mentioning a late game PvP. Idk about you or other Protoss, but I became fed up with most of my matches ending within 10 minutes.

windsupernova

Mexico5280 Posts

April 26 2011 02:45 GMT

#135

Well, I like it because of that. Templar tech in PvP was mainly used for Blink and DTs, both strategies which start losing effectiveness over time when you compare it with Robo and Stargate. Massive Archons will help with that.

Edit: Nvm it seems Concussive shells will not affect archons. Good, it was pretty horrible to see the badass Archon being Kited to death

BLinD-RawR

ALLEYCAT BLUES50238 Posts

April 26 2011 02:46 GMT

#136

FIST PUMP ARCHONS!!!!!!!

Ghosts...that exta 50 gas I use for you can be spent getting your energy upgrade because mineralz are free anyway.

Playguuu

United States926 Posts

April 26 2011 02:46 GMT

#137

Balance

PROTOSS
Archons are now a massive unit. Fine I guess
Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5. Dunno how if at all this affects wall ins, think it was geared towards warping over gaps and lowground to high ground where you could warp in and they couldn't do anything about the pylon without basically losing the game
Cybernetics Core
Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180. Good
Gateway
Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37.
Stalker train time decreased from 42 to 37.
Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.
Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged.

Do the decreased times actually present protoss with the option not to go warp tech or is it still faster. That would have been the best solution, make gateways faster to produce units but have warp gate more versatile.

TERRAN
Ghost
Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100. Meh
Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%. Needed to happen for a long time, I thought they'd do this before nerfing the build time but ok I guess.

ZERG
Spore Crawler
Root time decreased from 12 to 6. Nice, didn't happen often but when you had to throw down a few spores and the enemy found a gap in your defense you were kind of screwed if you didn't have enough queens. I wish they'd do this with spines or increase queen movement speed to make zerg a little more dynamic.

DooMDash

United States1015 Posts

April 26 2011 02:46 GMT

#138

Ghosts 200 minerals ? What a lame change. It should be 175/125 if anything.

Also good luck holding off proxy gates with 40 second bunker times and faster gateway build times.

sAfuRos

United States743 Posts

April 26 2011 02:46 GMT

#139

I dont understand why blizzard hasn't considered the SIMPLE fuckin idea of just increasing the cost for warpgate. If it was 150/100 instead of 50/50, that would be a significant nerf to 4 warpgate while not making it impossible to do and while giving non-4 warpgaters a unit/tech advantage

Eleaven

772 Posts

April 26 2011 02:47 GMT

#140

On April 26 2011 11:39 TurtlePerson2 wrote:
It's good to see 4-gate come a little later. I think that will adjust Protoss in a good way. 4-gate is weakened, but all other strategies are more or less untouched.

The ghost change is kind of interesting. Terrans usually have a mineral abundance due to MULEs, so I think it will help Terran.
.

wut?

Show me a good terran with spare minerals? Pretty much every terran is floating a ton of gas mid game, since their core units are very gas light, and mineral heavy.
Mule doesn't give them spare minerals, it lets them keep up in production with races that use mins/gas in a more balanced manner