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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On April 26 2011 15:21 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 15:17 Fleshy wrote:
so how would stop 2 gate as zerg now? I didn't play zerg before when 2 gate was big
Scout it destroy pylon and it's usually GG. If he puts another pylon up thats one less Zealot and it's still usually GG after your lings are out.
He meant regular 2 gate.
Gas pool build
You just have to delay until your first larva spawn comes into play. Remember to keep 4:1 zergling to zealot ratio. Often times players misjudge how strong zealots are so just try to keep that in mind. Don't place your hatch until after the spawn larva comes into play unless you are very confident you can delay. Further positions have more leeway in terms of hatch timing but I'd rather play safe.
I got the 2nd queen really early (instead of 20 supply hatch) because protoss will sometimes try to sit on the ramp. In this case you need to pull queen to force the zealots away.
Pool first build
You need to get down spines and delay for the spawn larva again. Your queen needs to kite on whatever creep exists at your natural while your zerglings try to cut reinforcements. Spine is key here
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2 gate pressure was really strong back when you could spawn close positions on maps like Metal and Lost Temple. Well, you still can spawn close positions on Metal during ladder, which is the reason this change will make ladder rough on Zerg. Basically, it prevents Zerg from going any kind of econ build early and practically forces them into roaches or mass spines while Protoss has powerful tech follow-ups because zealots don't cost any gas.
On far positions, however, the real threat comes from a 2 gate proxy, which might outright end games for Zergs doing hatch before pool.
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United States7483 Posts
On April 26 2011 15:24 PrinceXizor wrote:
Can we get an addition to the message at the top of the thread reminding everyone that EMP in starcraft 2 does a max of 100 damage, even to archons which have 360 shields. Because thats super important when people start whining about how emp wrecks archons, when it in fact deals LESS damage (as a percent) to an archon than to a zealot. (zealot loses 33% archon loses 27%)
The % doesn't matter so much as the flat damage, since everything in the game does flat amounts of damage, nothing does damage based as a %. Archons take 100 damage from an EMP, zealots take 50.
On the other hand, archons are really big, so an emp won't hit as many units if it's centered on an Archon.
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Netherlands4730 Posts
Adelscott will be so happy with these patchchanges, so will White-Ra 
they already used the 'normal' build from gateways while not chronoing the upgrade. Very very nice change. I love it.
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zvp -> get proxy 2 gated every game
zvt -> good luck dealing with an untouchable army of cloaked ghosts sniping every overseer you throw at them
fun fun
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6 seconds is only 2 more than siege tank. Spore crawlers are now incredible mobile for a tower unit. If you engage in the middle of the map on creep spore crawlers seem a viable anti air mobile option, especially late game when there are 200/200 armies.
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On April 26 2011 15:24 Angelbelow wrote:
Return of the proxy 2 gate could be in play too. I remember thats one of the biggest reasons to nerf zealot build time and not the normal 2 gate.
It was wrong change then too and in beta when they did 38 seconds too. It's like a 6 pool, no skill player has a problem with it. People that don't like scouting are screwed tho.
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PvP will now be:
1. Make sure you aren't proxy 2gated
2. Make sure you aren't 2gated.
3. Rush for the colossus.
Or you use special tactics, like Zealot Probe allin. Bit by Biiit!
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On April 26 2011 15:09 tarath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 15:02 Herrk wrote:
Btw, is anyone else feeling that these patches comes just a little to quick? Doesn't let the game evolve on its own I'm excited about this patch, but in general I agree with you 100%. Blizzard patches things way faster than the meta game evolves so the game is just in a constant state of flux. They should be patching like once every 6 months or so imo.
This is true in general, but it's clear at this point that PvP isn't going to fix itself without some changes.
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On April 26 2011 15:30 poor newb wrote:
zvp -> get proxy 2 gated every game
zvt -> good luck dealing with an untouchable army of cloaked ghosts sniping every overseer you throw at them
fun fun
pvz -> get 6pooled every game
tvz -> good luck dealing with an untouchable army of burrowed infestors fungal growthing everything you throw at them
I can play this game too. Isn't it fun?
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On April 26 2011 15:33 Vipsanius wrote:
PvP will now be:
1. Make sure you aren't proxy 2gated
2. Make sure you aren't 2gated.
3. Rush for the colossus.
Or you use special tactics, like Zealot Probe allin. Bit by Biiit!
Force field. Bitbybit destroy.
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On April 26 2011 15:28 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 15:24 PrinceXizor wrote:
Can we get an addition to the message at the top of the thread reminding everyone that EMP in starcraft 2 does a max of 100 damage, even to archons which have 360 shields. Because thats super important when people start whining about how emp wrecks archons, when it in fact deals LESS damage (as a percent) to an archon than to a zealot. (zealot loses 33% archon loses 27%) The % doesn't matter so much as the flat damage, since everything in the game does flat amounts of damage, nothing does damage based as a %. Archons take 100 damage from an EMP, zealots take 50. On the other hand, archons are really big, so an emp won't hit as many units if it's centered on an Archon.
yeah a line of archons can at most be hit 2 at a time by EMP or 1 at a time if you for some reason center the EMP on the archon center, which deals a max of 200 damage, while a group of zealots can be hit 10 at a time for max of 500 damage.
On April 26 2011 15:26 OsoVega wrote:
Definitely like the direction Blizzard is going with the anti 4gate changes. Maybe I'll be able to take some free wins with zealot rushes but I don't see it being a problem. I'm curious to see how this will effect the Adel Scott build. As for archons, maybe the new changes will open up some opportunities for saving archons and making them really cost effective in PvT but I don't think they're powerful enough to be a main "hero unit" like the collosus or what the HT used to be.
I'm actually scared of archons, unlike collosus. collosus i know exactly how to take down and how easy it is to take down, a group of archons just decimates much more than collosus do. 5 collosus creates a scary situation, though they are glass cannons, while archons deal similar DPS (more if targetting clumps) and are tankier (up front, less psi used, produced from gateway, same health, takes no bonus damage, only targettable as ground)
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On April 26 2011 12:37 Gescom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 12:36 OMG.The.AvataR wrote:
What does making archon a massive unit do? Read the thread! It can crush forcefield and will not be slowed by marauder.
Plus, they will take extra damage from landed corruptors!
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On April 26 2011 15:37 nodule wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 12:37 Gescom wrote:On April 26 2011 12:36 OMG.The.AvataR wrote:
What does making archon a massive unit do? Read the thread! It can crush forcefield and will not be slowed by marauder. Plus, they will take extra damage from landed corruptors!
Can't be picked up by phoenix was something I wasn't anticipating and could be pretty big.
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Everyone, why are we overreacting to PTR Patch notes of all things? They aren't even implemented yet!
If they prove to be too radical blizzard won't implement them, just like the last time that there were changes that people freaked out about. Let it settle down and try it out before we all freak out.
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On April 26 2011 15:30 poor newb wrote:
zvp -> get proxy 2 gated every game
zvt -> good luck dealing with an untouchable army of cloaked ghosts sniping every overseer you throw at them
fun fun
In the past protoss only lost pylons, now they may lose 2 gateways if they are push back. So we won't see 2 proxy gates..
Zerg should learn to spread creep and just spore crawler as detectors. Burrow time only 6 sec.
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took a while for that salvage nerf....
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On April 26 2011 12:12 Mastermind wrote:Are you implying you couldnt see 4gate coming? 4gate is one of the easiest builds to scout.
This is actually very true. 4gate is by far the easiest of any cheese to see coming, because there's one really obvious giveaway that lets you 100% know that they're going to 4gate, or at least do some variant such as the MC nexus cancel.
+ Show Spoiler [the obvious giveaway] +
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Will they ever leave the bunker and gateway build times alone?
i really like the spore crawler idea though, i wish they would do the same for the spine!
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Really happy with the spore change. Will make it easier to defend against mass banshee/other things
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EPT
