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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On April 26 2011 15:50 TheGiftedApe wrote:
Pylon change is so stupid, gives protoss a disadvantage in all matchups just to encourage less 4 warp gate in pvp.....Not to mention I will have to relearn where to position all my buildings for my sim cities. I really really dislike these changes for toss seems like they are going backwards instead of forward.
Really? That change is not really that bad, the sim citying is not that hard to relearn. What worries me is that we will probably see a lot of P losing a lot due to the warpgate changes(timings changed etc..) And the pylon change does give more risk when you offensive 4 gate with a warp in on the ramp.
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On April 26 2011 15:51 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. There seem to be pro players who like these changes (LaLush for one) and I'm not quite sure what he means by "negatively". I imagine he dislikes how the change affects other matchups? Regardless, I'm sure players will keep opening doors.
Tyler doesn't like the fact that Blizzard is changing stuff at such a rapid pace in response to casual player whining (supposedly). This is a reasonable point of view whether you like the changes or not. Tyler also probably has builds prepared that would no longer work with the new patch, meaning that he'll have to start anew.
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This is absolutely awesome!  Warp-Gates are now a choice early game, bunker pressure ain't free, and Zerg can defend those annoying cloaked banshees or pheonixes easier
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I think the pylon range was reduced to the abusable strategies in 2v2. Bunker salvage has always been a complaint among non terran players. Maybe ghosts will be more common due to less gas. I think warpgate was increased to accommodate stim increase.
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On April 26 2011 11:37 arQ wrote:Great changes imo. Interesting to see how this pans out. Ghost changes is really interesting, i have been waiting for ghost builds since i saw TLO go mass ghosts during beta 
tlo still uses ghost builds, but rather early game focused
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If u think about it 12 seconds to root a spore crawler is ridiculous, I mean why should a
Spore crawler with less usability be longer to root when spine
Crawlers are needed to be moved more often?
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On April 26 2011 15:55 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 15:51 syllogism wrote:On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. There seem to be pro players who like these changes (LaLush for one) and I'm not quite sure what he means by "negatively". I imagine he dislikes how the change affects other matchups? Regardless, I'm sure players will keep opening doors. Tyler doesn't like the fact that Blizzard is changing stuff at such a rapid pace in response to casual player whining (supposedly). This is a reasonable point of view whether you like the changes or not. Tyler also probably has builds prepared that would no longer work with the new patch, meaning that he'll have to start anew.
He knows full well a lot of pro protoss players hated the [PvP] matchup and the patch is also intended to address that somewhat
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as a Protoss player myself i acually love all the changes. as far as I know everything makes sense. Hope these changes will come to the next patch
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On April 26 2011 15:55 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 15:51 syllogism wrote:On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. There seem to be pro players who like these changes (LaLush for one) and I'm not quite sure what he means by "negatively". I imagine he dislikes how the change affects other matchups? Regardless, I'm sure players will keep opening doors. Tyler doesn't like the fact that Blizzard is changing stuff at such a rapid pace in response to casual player whining (supposedly). This is a reasonable point of view whether you like the changes or not. Tyler also probably has builds prepared that would no longer work with the new patch, meaning that he'll have to start anew.
The game is still new and Blizzard know what they are doing.
Pros need to learn to adapt, forget casual play - I barely play the game but I can totally see how what they've implimented is good for the stuff I WATCH, not what I play.
Ideally in a well balanced game, Zerg, Terran and Protoss should have a variety of options against each opponent, not 1 or 2 builds at most to save their ass, seeing all units well balanced across the board makes for more dynamic and exciting gameplay.
This archon change for example, means we might finally see archons used more often in TvT matches, how is that in any way a bad thing?
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On April 26 2011 15:54 ParasitJonte wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 15:51 syllogism wrote:On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. There seem to be pro players who like these changes (LaLush for one) and I'm not quite sure what he means by "negatively". Perhaps he dislikes how the change affects other matchups? Regardless, I'm sure players will keep opening doors. To me it's about making the game better. The game will be better if PvP isn't all about 4 gate. Tyler doesn't seem to give this a thought.
Ehhh, I actually don't agree. Blizzard should only step in to fix broken things, Its not up to them to make a matchup more playable or watchable. And really, with 9 matchups only 1 was retarded so I don't think it was that bad.
PvP was interesting to me at least, not all matches need to go into super late macro mode to be good.
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I don't care much for the 4 gate changes. We don't need those.
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Decrease in radius of pylon will be fun. Can hide pylons better against opponent.
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I feel the zealot build time is fine early game though stalker and sentry should be reduced with these changes.
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Shit, these threads get spammed up so fast. So here's another one!
These changes looks very promising imo, though I feel like most of these were already discussed during beta. Blizzard being a bit slow is no surprise though.
Pylon range change... well more like BW = I like it.
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On April 26 2011 15:57 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 15:54 ParasitJonte wrote:On April 26 2011 15:51 syllogism wrote:On April 26 2011 14:25 [Atomic]Peace wrote:I'm going to go with Tyler on the Warpgate change:
I'm tired of casual play negatively affecting pro play (4gate being addressed in next patch). Rule changes should happen only when necessary
https://twitter.com/#!/TylerWasieleski/status/61786904529616896He nails it. The change simply isn't necessary and is only being made to cater to casual play. Is it difficult to hold off a 4 warp gate? It can be. Is the build usually powerful for how easy it is to execute? Sure. But with proper training you can hold off 4 warp gate 100% of the time. By definition it is not imbalanced. There seem to be pro players who like these changes (LaLush for one) and I'm not quite sure what he means by "negatively". Perhaps he dislikes how the change affects other matchups? Regardless, I'm sure players will keep opening doors. To me it's about making the game better. The game will be better if PvP isn't all about 4 gate. Tyler doesn't seem to give this a thought. Ehhh, I actually don't agree. Blizzard should only step in to fix broken things, Its not up to them to make a matchup more playable or watchable. And really, with 9 matchups only 1 was retarded so I don't think it was that bad. PvP was interesting to me at least, not all matches need to go into super late macro mode to be good.
Thank goodness im not the only one that thinks super late macro games arent always good as a spectator. Need variety.
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Pylon change was unnecessary. I'm actually surprised that they did that instead of nerfing forcefields.
Other that that, definitely one of the better patches from blizzard. Loving the new ghost change, perhaps we'll see some ghost openings now.
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My friend is saying this.
"Nah, it won't work in 2 players map, Protoss will just build pylons inside Terran's base. Use workers to kill off the pylon? Nope, Tasteless said it just doesn't worth it as Protoss can just build another pylon, while Terran will lose plenty of mining time."
This is regarding a proxy 2 gate even if it is scouted by terran. Surely it isn't as hard to defend than what he is making out.
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On April 26 2011 15:57 windsupernova wrote:
Ehhh, I actually don't agree. Blizzard should only step in to fix broken things, Its not up to them to make a matchup more playable or watchable. And really, with 9 matchups only 1 was retarded so I don't think it was that bad.
PvP was interesting to me at least, not all matches need to go into super late macro mode to be good.
If a single path defines a matchup to the extent that it's virtually obligatory, the game IS broken.
It can't be a strategy game if there aren't various viable strategies.
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On April 26 2011 15:53 Gegenschein wrote:
Please don't decrease Zealot build time to 33... Decrease it to 37, like for Stalkers and Sentries.
Protoss already has enough ways to cheese as it is.
I've changed my mind about my earlier opinion regarding Blizzard forgetting why they nerfed zealot build time in the first place. In actuality, they probably know quite well that they're bringing back 2 gate. In fact, they *want* to bring back 2 gate.
A lot of people think that Blizzard loves macro games, but I don't really think so. Dustin Browder has stated that the design team wants games to be "action-packed" from the very beginning. This means that they don't want players sitting on their safe ass builds until it's 3 base vs. 3 base.
2 gate is the ultimate form of early Protoss pressure. By bringing it back Blizzard is saying that they're going to compensate Protoss, who now has significantly delayed 4 gates, another way to keep other races "honest" with early pressure. On smaller maps, say goodbye to your Terran 1 rax expands and Zerg 15 hatches. You're not going to be lifting that CC or putting down that hatch until you're sure the 2 gate pressure is over or not coming.
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EPT
