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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On May 05 2011 07:03 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 06:54 narcissus wrote:
Thor, as they are now, are only powerfull, or OP as some say, because Protoss only know how to A-move they army, instead of micro.
Not saying I'm a micro genius, but when I see the deathball (stalker "sitting" under the collosus), I just giggle like a little baby.
If Protoss would move out of the "we have a Deathball" Metagame, they could do way better vs the Thor I'm sorry, but how would you appropriately micro a protoss army versus a thor? There isn't really many special techniques you can do (against the thor timing push), other than move damaged units back, in terms of micro at that point of the game. You pretty much can just attack move and hope for the best :|.
Kite with the Colossus maybe?
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On May 05 2011 07:05 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 07:02 LoLAdriankat wrote:
The more balance patches I see, the more I think that statistical adjustments aren't good enough and that this game needs a redesign. Almost nothing in the patch notes makes sense to me.
By the time a 4gate hits a Terran in 1.3.3, he would have maybe an extra marine or two. Definitely not much of a difference. Do you understand the intention behind the warpgate nerf? It wasn't done to effect the PvT timing, that's for sure.
If there is one race that 4 gate is least effective against, it'll be terran, and they be nerfing my bunkers each patch.
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On May 05 2011 07:05 philippG wrote:
@serp why the fuck woudl u use thors against carries stim marines just do the job .....
narcissus i don t know why the nerfed it or why it had been nerfed i just know one build that implied a thor rush 2 thors rines and scv all in vs toss
which was really hard to deal but if u scouted it was manageable.
You don't build Thors vs Carriers. But if you go Mech Protoss will usually build Carriers at one point. And Thors are pretty sad against them. And if you go Mech you won't have Stim or several Barracks. You will usually have to rely on Vikings against Carriers.
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I think the Thor energy thing is blown out of proportion.
Personally, I feel that it's far far FAR from a game breaking change no matter how you look at it. Terrans wasn't exactly losing every game before they removed the energy.
Most likely Blizzard will tweak it again after HTs are past the "amulet nerf"-stigma. Although the one unit I'd like to see tweaked is the Raven along with seeker missle.
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Yes it's not Game breaking but it'll probably remove alot of Thoruse against Toss , like it was before they removed the Energy.
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guys cmon.. this is just the PTR really i apploud blizzard for trying something to fix late game PvT as of know theres not much you can do once they get a few thors in they're deathball just my unbiased opinion peace 
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I feel an unexplored angle of the Thor change is that in addition to opening up a way for Protoss to deal with Thors, it takes away a way for Terran to deal with HTs.
HTs are now great against basically anything Terran can produce with the exception of Tanks and Ghosts. The later of which they can actually use feedback against as well.
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On May 05 2011 07:22 eloist wrote:
I feel an unexplored angle of the Thor change is that in addition to opening up a way for Protoss to deal with Thors, it takes away a way for Terran to deal with HTs.
HTs are now great against basically anything Terran can produce with the exception of Tanks and Ghosts. The later of which they can actually use feedback against as well.
T has the clear upper hand in the Ghost vs HT micro-battle.
You feel pigeon-holed? The existence of the Banshee forces P players to build a robo in nearly every PvT.
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I'll really ROFL if in a future patch notes they decrease the build time in gate ways,
On topic, I guess that's why PTR isn't useless, :D
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On April 26 2011 11:20 Jimbo77 wrote:
Thor
Thor now has 200 max energy, and starts with 50 energy.
250mm Strike Cannons now cost 150 energy to use (cooldown removed).
I really dislike this change. Now if toss scouts an armory they might as well throw down a templar archives. They can even wait until the engagement to warp in templar since feedback can be cast immediately. Then they can become archons, which are becoming very nice against T after this patch. If the T made an armory and then no thors, well, you're left with templar, which will destroy the bio they most likely have.
That being said, I can't imagine strike cannons being researched much after this in TvP, and I wouldn't be surprised if thors became scarce all together in high-level play.
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On May 05 2011 07:27 Chemist391 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 07:22 eloist wrote:
I feel an unexplored angle of the Thor change is that in addition to opening up a way for Protoss to deal with Thors, it takes away a way for Terran to deal with HTs.
HTs are now great against basically anything Terran can produce with the exception of Tanks and Ghosts. The later of which they can actually use feedback against as well. T has the clear upper hand in the Ghost vs HT micro-battle. You feel pigeon-holed? The existence of the Banshee forces P players to build a robo in nearly every PvT.
I don't feel pigeon-holed but I feel that HTs are too versatile against Terran. Banshees can't shoot down observers and one shot sentries from a distance for instance. Although I must admit, that would be pretty cool.
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On May 05 2011 07:39 eloist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 07:27 Chemist391 wrote:On May 05 2011 07:22 eloist wrote:
I feel an unexplored angle of the Thor change is that in addition to opening up a way for Protoss to deal with Thors, it takes away a way for Terran to deal with HTs.
HTs are now great against basically anything Terran can produce with the exception of Tanks and Ghosts. The later of which they can actually use feedback against as well. T has the clear upper hand in the Ghost vs HT micro-battle. You feel pigeon-holed? The existence of the Banshee forces P players to build a robo in nearly every PvT. I don't feel pigeon-holed but I feel that HTs are too versatile against Terran. Banshees can't shoot down observers and one shot sentries from a distance for instance. Although I must admit, that would be pretty cool.
How do HT's shoot down scans and one shot ghosts from a distance (where the ghost can't emp, which is easier because it is AoE and has a lot of other good effects for the terran)? They don't. Actually HT's are not good enough, which is why you don't see them a lot and why you see so much colossus. Give HT a form of KA back with +12.5 energy and +33% or +50% regen rate and we will see a lot more interesting games with a lot less colossus. Actually replace the colossus with the reaver if you ask me but that's another story.
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On May 05 2011 07:52 H0i wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 07:39 eloist wrote:On May 05 2011 07:27 Chemist391 wrote:On May 05 2011 07:22 eloist wrote:
I feel an unexplored angle of the Thor change is that in addition to opening up a way for Protoss to deal with Thors, it takes away a way for Terran to deal with HTs.
HTs are now great against basically anything Terran can produce with the exception of Tanks and Ghosts. The later of which they can actually use feedback against as well. T has the clear upper hand in the Ghost vs HT micro-battle. You feel pigeon-holed? The existence of the Banshee forces P players to build a robo in nearly every PvT. I don't feel pigeon-holed but I feel that HTs are too versatile against Terran. Banshees can't shoot down observers and one shot sentries from a distance for instance. Although I must admit, that would be pretty cool. How do HT's shoot down scans and one shot ghosts from a distance (where the ghost can't emp, which is easier because it is AoE and has a lot of other good effects for the terran)? They don't. Actually HT's are not good enough, which is why you don't see them a lot and why you see so much colossus. Give HT a form of KA back with +12.5 energy and +33% or +50% regen rate and we will see a lot more interesting games with a lot less colossus. Actually replace the colossus with the reaver if you ask me but that's another story.
So long as the scarab is a thing that actually works this time around. 
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I was not equating those 1 to 1. HTs are fantastic against mass bio units but also really useful against so many high tech units at the same time (banshees, thors, battlecruisers, ravens, medivacs). And they even have a decent way of dealing with their hardest counter even though they are at a disadvantage against it. With the KA still in the game, that was just silly.
Anyways, it was nice to be able to switch to thors when HTs were out instead of just making more bio with ghosts added in and hoping for the best. So I was glad when Thor energy was removed.
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On May 05 2011 07:27 Chemist391 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 07:22 eloist wrote:
I feel an unexplored angle of the Thor change is that in addition to opening up a way for Protoss to deal with Thors, it takes away a way for Terran to deal with HTs.
HTs are now great against basically anything Terran can produce with the exception of Tanks and Ghosts. The later of which they can actually use feedback against as well. T has the clear upper hand in the Ghost vs HT micro-battle. You feel pigeon-holed? The existence of the Banshee forces P players to build a robo in nearly every PvT.
the existence of DT forces T players to scan.
seriously though, ghost versus high templar is a good micro battle.
i wish blizzard would just do something good with thor cannon, remove the stun and give it siege range or something. it's not worth the upgrade in the slightest when protoss can feedback your thors before they can activate cannon.
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On May 05 2011 07:27 Chemist391 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 07:22 eloist wrote:
I feel an unexplored angle of the Thor change is that in addition to opening up a way for Protoss to deal with Thors, it takes away a way for Terran to deal with HTs.
HTs are now great against basically anything Terran can produce with the exception of Tanks and Ghosts. The later of which they can actually use feedback against as well. T has the clear upper hand in the Ghost vs HT micro-battle. You feel pigeon-holed? The existence of the Banshee forces P players to build a robo in nearly every PvT.
The Reaver forced T to build Factories in every TvP in BW. I don't think being forced to build a robo removes variety at all. Being forced to build Collosus does. =p
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On April 26 2011 11:20 Jimbo77 wrote:
Updated 05/03, 6:00 PM PDT
ZERG
Infestor
Speed decreased from 2.5 to 2.25.
Why?
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oh god, just as we figure a way to deal with toss deathball they destroy the thor. strike cannon is now USELESS. as soon as you try get into range for cannon u will get fedback. useless unit tbh now vs P.
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On May 05 2011 08:03 shizna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 07:27 Chemist391 wrote:On May 05 2011 07:22 eloist wrote:
I feel an unexplored angle of the Thor change is that in addition to opening up a way for Protoss to deal with Thors, it takes away a way for Terran to deal with HTs.
HTs are now great against basically anything Terran can produce with the exception of Tanks and Ghosts. The later of which they can actually use feedback against as well. T has the clear upper hand in the Ghost vs HT micro-battle. You feel pigeon-holed? The existence of the Banshee forces P players to build a robo in nearly every PvT. the existence of DT forces T players to scan. seriously though, ghost versus high templar is a good micro battle. i wish blizzard would just do something good with thor cannon, remove the stun and give it siege range or something. it's not worth the upgrade in the slightest when protoss can feedback your thors before they can activate cannon.
Not a fair comparison. You are going to get an orbital, always. (unless it's some sort of insane 2rax all-in). The scan is a snap-reactionary move, assuming you're close to 50 energy or your macro is off. The robo is 200/100 plus building time, THEN you need to make the observer. A T can be caught with his pants down by DTs and not auto-lose. A protoss caught with his pants down by a banshee does auto-lose.
Further, because DTs are in the game does not force a T to just randomly drop scans in his main every single game. If we see anything but a straight up 3rax, we MUST make a robo. DTs only force scans if they are made. Banshees force the robo by virtue of the fact that they are a unit that you can make.
Ghost vs HT is NOT a good micro battle. Let's assume optimal spread by the protoss.
-Range disparity
-AoE spell against a slow-moving and easy-to-spot HT vs single-click spell against a fast and often difficult to spot (under medivac, or cloaked) ghost.
-EMP disables the HT and does massive burst-damage to all protoss units. You don't need to choose between AoE damage and disabling the spell caster. Storm will not kill a ghost, so the choice between FB and storm is not trivial.
-Attempting to EMP an HT is almost always guaranteed damage. Attempting to feedback a ghost will/should result in you losing the HT to EMP before you are in range.
-You can micro out of a storm. I can't micro out of an EMP and save half of my shields.
-Even with the nerf to energy destruction by EMP, you trade 75 for 100, which means you trade 1 storm worth of energy for two feedbacks or 1.333 storms.
I, however, agree that making strike cannon energy-based again seems like a poor change.
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What I would like to know is if the Thor cannon nerf was targeted at the this Thor timing push that was mentioned in the SotG podcast, why didn't Blizzard just nerf the research time like they did for stim, instead of basically reverting a change on an ability that already sees very limited use.
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EPT
