EPTPatch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 187
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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong. It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. | ||
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S.O.L.I.D.
United States792 Posts
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On May 05 2011 07:39 eloist wrote: I don't feel pigeon-holed but I feel that HTs are too versatile against Terran. Banshees can't shoot down observers and one shot sentries from a distance for instance. Although I must admit, that would be pretty cool. Well its a good thing ghosts are good against literally every protoss unit as well. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
On May 05 2011 09:47 awesomoecalypse wrote: Yeah Ghosts are a lot scarier to Protoss than HTs are to Terran, especially now that KA is gone and Ghosts are 50 gas cheaper. And while the Archon buff is nice, it just so happens that Ghosts are excellent against Archons as well, due to their EMP vulnerability. Hmm I don't think that's true. Storm is the scariest thing ever, and actually kills our units. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
Hmm I don't think that's true. Storm is the scariest thing ever, and actually kills our units. EMP deals 100 damage, essentially, to any unit with at least 100 shields, and simply removes the shields of any other unit. Unlike Storm, it cannot be dodged, and its range is longer than Storm. This is in addition to wiping out 100 energy from any caster caught in the blast. In its effectiveness at dealing terrific aoe damage, and neutralizing casters, against Toss EMP actually combines some of the very best aspects of feedback and psi storm. And Ghosts are substantially cheaper in terms of gas than HTs, which means you can much more easily use them in combination with other higher tech units. | ||
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Bippzy
United States1466 Posts
On May 05 2011 08:46 SpectreSOF wrote: What I would like to know is if the Thor cannon nerf was targeted at the this Thor timing push that was mentioned in the SotG podcast, why didn't Blizzard just nerf the research time like they did for stim, instead of basically reverting a change on an ability that already sees very limited use. Well it was more like an ability that made mass thor vs mass immortal one sided in the thors favor. And if you make marines and thors and the toss tries to counter with some mixture(voids, immos, zealots, stalkers) with collosus the thors get an easy kill on the colo and its just painful to watch marines and thors eat toss babies. The only real way to deal with this was possibly High/dark templar void ray but with good viking and marine control it was possibly too hard for the toss still, espiecially because of the prevalence of hellions with mech play making DTs useless and zealots. Okay this is borderline turning into a rant. Point is, the terrans had a thor marine viking whatever else deathball and the toss had trouble dealing with it so they nerfed it. Don't ask me why there are no PvZ changes:D | ||
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dump
Japan514 Posts
-Nerf colossus. I'm tired of having to build colossus every game. Make it do full damage only to light units. -Buff phoenix or templar. Either give us back khaydarin with a 15mp increase instead of 25, or make phoenix do full damage to all units. -Make zealot charge cost less than the current 200/200. Neither zealots nor zealot charge aren't worth as much as zealots or leg speed were in Brood War; it's extremely lazy design to keep their upgrade cost the same. We can't even make it up to templar tech without making a detour to colossus tech first; there's just way too much of a timing window. As protoss I'm seriously sick of playing colossus, and neither the thor nerf nor the archon buf help at all when the whole templar tech path leaves such a ridiculously long vulnerability window. | ||
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong744 Posts
On May 05 2011 05:20 Vestige wrote: i love how protoss is having such an easy time ...and then they buff sentries..... Sigh.. when will people realize that this Protoss OP hype is nothing but a made up myth =/ Unless QQ counts as proof or something, there's no evidence at all showing that there is any such imbalance. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=218558 I implore you to look at the charts. at best, protoss is pretty balanced, as are the other races in the international scene (which is very good to see). At worst however, protoss is clearly no where close to being as good as they are made out to be, and may possibly even be considered the weakest race right now in Korea. Although the Korea sample size is significantly smaller and thus fluctuations may be bigger than normal (ie inaccurate representation), but even if you look at March, when ogsMC won GSL, at the time when complaints about protoss being too strong was off the charts - the win rates in Korea for PvZ was 54.9% and PvT 48.5%, FAR from being "protoss is #$$% too strong" for sure. And in the same month, for the international scene, PvZ was 49.1% and PvT was 50.2% - which is pretty much as close as there is to fair win rates. Anyways, regarding the patch, I would personally rather they do something with marauders instead of thors - they are a much cooler unit to see and use/fight against. Also I'd really like them to change back the stalker build time again and let people test it out a little longer; I think it would open up a ton more possibilities in different opening builds which protoss could use imo (especially in PvP). | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
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DreamSailor
Canada433 Posts
On May 05 2011 10:15 dump wrote: They seriously need to stop dancing around the HT/colossus problem and start addressing it head on. -Nerf colossus. I'm tired of having to build colossus every game. Make it do full damage only to light units. -Buff phoenix or templar. Either give us back khaydarin with a 15mp increase instead of 25, or make phoenix do full damage to all units. -Make zealot charge cost less than the current 200/200. Neither zealots nor zealot charge aren't worth as much as zealots or leg speed were in Brood War; it's extremely lazy design to keep their upgrade cost the same. We can't even make it up to templar tech without making a detour to colossus tech first; there's just way too much of a timing window. As protoss I'm seriously sick of playing colossus, and neither the thor nerf nor the archon buf help at all when the whole templar tech path leaves such a ridiculously long vulnerability window. Making Phoenix do 10x2 to everything would be incredibly broken. They would start to beat Corruptors, they would beat Broodlords, they would be Vikings much worse then they already do, Voidrays would be even more of a joke against them. Not to mention they would actually be cost effective against Capital Ships, and the phoenix lift would be damn broken. Phoenix are in a good spot right now, they are strong, but not brokenly strong. | ||
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HallBregg
134 Posts
The bottom line is that toss have two aoe units serving in general tems the same purpose being colussus a lot easier and straightforward to use and HT play is always going to sufer for it. I personally like the HT-ghost dinamic a lot more than the collosus-viking one, cos I hate that vikings are useless at anything else that killing collusus, and I think the whole introduction of colussus was a design error, but well... is not like they are going to remove collosus at this stage... | ||
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Aequos
Canada606 Posts
Unless you are in a severely lategame situation, Protoss won't have both HT and Colossus, or they won't have much of either. The amount of energy needed to feedback Thors and storm MM is quite high, and the cheaper ghosts will help. Was it needed? Not in my opinion. Does it destroy Thors? Probably not. | ||
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darkcloud8282
Canada776 Posts
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dump
Japan514 Posts
On May 05 2011 10:20 DreamSailor wrote: Making Phoenix do 10x2 to everything would be incredibly broken. They would start to beat Corruptors, they would beat Broodlords, they would be Vikings much worse then they already do, Voidrays would be even more of a joke against them. Not to mention they would actually be cost effective against Capital Ships, and the phoenix lift would be damn broken. Phoenix are in a good spot right now, they are strong, but not brokenly strong. I don't get why every time I mention that phoenix should be buffed, people ignore the fact that I say colossus should be nerfed. You won't need corruptors or vikings as much if you're not fighting colossus. | ||
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ucbEntilZha
United States96 Posts
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
On May 05 2011 10:12 awesomoecalypse wrote: EMP deals 100 damage, essentially, to any unit with at least 100 shields, and simply removes the shields of any other unit. Unlike Storm, it cannot be dodged, and its range is longer than Storm. This is in addition to wiping out 100 energy from any caster caught in the blast. In its effectiveness at dealing terrific aoe damage, and neutralizing casters, against Toss EMP actually combines some of the very best aspects of feedback and psi storm. And Ghosts are substantially cheaper in terms of gas than HTs, which means you can much more easily use them in combination with other higher tech units. Storm is much much much worse. EMP have a peak damage and as many as you have afterwards are useless. You can dodge storm, kinda.. but you can also storm in the direction of the dodging. Storm is really just way better than EMP even if you can dodge it. I'm not saying I want a storm nerf, but to get back on topic the Thor nerf is retarded. | ||
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ucbEntilZha
United States96 Posts
On May 05 2011 11:12 DooMDash wrote: Storm is much much much worse. EMP have a peak damage and as many as you have afterwards are useless. You can dodge storm, kinda.. but you can also storm in the direction of the dodging. Storm is really just way better than EMP even if you can dodge it. I'm not saying I want a storm nerf, but to get back on topic the Thor nerf is retarded. I would argue that EMP is stronger. If Toss army gets EMPed at high supply then T can just attack and crush it. Just watch some of MVPs games and some TSL games to see that happen. They are hard to dodge and do significant damage to any gateway army as well. They are also getting cheaper in the next patch. Storm is strong, but with the KA nerf if you miss some then its bad. Not only that, but Marauders are pretty bulky and Medivacs heal pretty quick if you dont just sit in the middle of the storm for its duration. This doesn't even get into how EMP could create a strong timing push if toss doesnt split sentries | ||
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cozzE
Australia357 Posts
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Ritos753
United States26 Posts
If Blizzard was to implement energy for thors they should make the attack cost somewhere near a minutes worth of energy or maybe 45 secs to compensate for the emp vulnerability. But then again with the ghost buff if you cloak correctly that would be useful to mass produce. Sniping buildings anyone? Also this is huge buff to HT right but also to their hard counter Ghosts which means this will discourage HT play if you just put up a ghost academy and dont need to worry about HT's and going MMM with a few thors would be viable | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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