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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 04 2011 21:26 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 21:24 marvellosity wrote:
You know guys, they probably made this change to the Thor because practically every single one of Protoss' ground units is countered by Thors once they have Strike Cannons.
Terrans should use Thors more. Thorzain - MC for example on Crossfire. But every ground unit Terran has is countered by Colossus and they're still intact
That's just not true. Colossus are very much a support unit while Thors can stand on their own. Thors own Colossi (let's not be pretending we're ever in the situation where we can micro each colossus and forget about all other aspects of the game). Marauders trash colossi, as will tanks, not forgetting the fact they get hit by air.
On the other hand, Thors have massive HP, armour, can be repaired by SCVs, and do big big DPS. Now, I'm not complaining about this because that's what the Thor DOES, but when our only potential ground counter in the Immortal is a handy target for being one-shotted, then it becomes very tricky indeed.
I'd be happy for the Thor to get Strike Cannons for a much cheaper cost (or even as default, I don't know), but Toss on the ground still need SOME way of killing them.
Terrans have such awesome variety in their builds that I don't think they've yet explored the options Thors give them. Thorzain's crushing victories with Thor strats are really just the beginning of the possibilities.
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Yay, loving the Archon changes! They're starting to get more useful  . I also like how the changes aren't over the top. I'd like small buffs so that things don't get overbuffed. I also welcome the thor change but i'm a toss player. Thors have always given me fits, but that's probably because I didn't know how to deal with them optimally.
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On May 04 2011 21:24 marvellosity wrote:
You know guys, they probably made this change to the Thor because practically every single one of Protoss' ground units is countered by Thors once they have Strike Cannons.
Terrans should use Thors more. Thorzain - MC for example on Crossfire.
Also pretty much every terran unit apart from tanks and vikings is countered by HT (either with storm or with feedback), but that doesn't mean HTs are OP or anything.
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On May 04 2011 22:09 marvellosity wrote:
That's just not true. Colossus are very much a support unit while Thors can stand on their own.
I disagree, I think Thors fall to focus fire quickly as well and always need support in the form of bio.
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i hate you blizzard, i just hate all of your patches...
How am i supposed to use thors late game now? self EMP? damn.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 04 2011 22:10 no.1 kissy boy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 21:24 marvellosity wrote:
You know guys, they probably made this change to the Thor because practically every single one of Protoss' ground units is countered by Thors once they have Strike Cannons.
Terrans should use Thors more. Thorzain - MC for example on Crossfire. Also pretty much every terran unit apart from tanks and vikings is countered by HT (either with storm or with feedback), but that doesn't mean HTs are OP or anything.
You're kinda just helping to make the point that Thors should have energy - HTs have limited energy and typically can only cast their main spell once. Your comparison would be valid if each templar had storm on a cooldown and could actually do any damage besides its spell it can cast once.
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Why does Blizzard keep nerfing the expensive/late game units? Mass marauder/roach 15+ minutes into a game is soo boring. It seems like every time we see an inkling that one of the gas heavy units might actually be used for once in a high level game, it gets nerfed 
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On May 04 2011 22:10 no.1 kissy boy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 21:24 marvellosity wrote:
You know guys, they probably made this change to the Thor because practically every single one of Protoss' ground units is countered by Thors once they have Strike Cannons.
Terrans should use Thors more. Thorzain - MC for example on Crossfire. Also pretty much every terran unit apart from tanks and vikings is countered by HT (either with storm or with feedback), but that doesn't mean HTs are OP or anything.
Quit exagerating !!! One HT with 200 energy can deal a maximum of 800 damage in 4 seconds to 85% of the tier 2+ units in the terran army. Thats not op at all!!! Heck a tank does 800 dmg to t1 zealots in like 5 to 9 years....
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On May 04 2011 22:14 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 22:10 no.1 kissy boy wrote:On May 04 2011 21:24 marvellosity wrote:
You know guys, they probably made this change to the Thor because practically every single one of Protoss' ground units is countered by Thors once they have Strike Cannons.
Terrans should use Thors more. Thorzain - MC for example on Crossfire. Also pretty much every terran unit apart from tanks and vikings is countered by HT (either with storm or with feedback), but that doesn't mean HTs are OP or anything. You're kinda just helping to make the point that Thors should have energy - HTs have limited energy and typically can only cast their main spell once. Your comparison would be valid if each templar had storm on a cooldown and could actually do any damage besides its spell it can cast once.
Point, Thor will become lightning rods so they don't storm your bio
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On May 04 2011 22:09 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 21:26 Blasterion wrote:On May 04 2011 21:24 marvellosity wrote:
You know guys, they probably made this change to the Thor because practically every single one of Protoss' ground units is countered by Thors once they have Strike Cannons.
Terrans should use Thors more. Thorzain - MC for example on Crossfire. But every ground unit Terran has is countered by Colossus and they're still intact That's just not true. Colossus are very much a support unit while Thors can stand on their own. Thors own Colossi (let's not be pretending we're ever in the situation where we can micro each colossus and forget about all other aspects of the game). Marauders trash colossi, as will tanks, not forgetting the fact they get hit by air. On the other hand, Thors have massive HP, armour, can be repaired by SCVs, and do big big DPS. Now, I'm not complaining about this because that's what the Thor DOES, but when our only potential ground counter in the Immortal is a handy target for being one-shotted, then it becomes very tricky indeed. I'd be happy for the Thor to get Strike Cannons for a much cheaper cost (or even as default, I don't know), but Toss on the ground still need SOME way of killing them. Terrans have such awesome variety in their builds that I don't think they've yet explored the options Thors give them. Thorzain's crushing victories with Thor strats are really just the beginning of the possibilities.
Ok, 2 things.
1. Can you give me another example of anyone using thors in TvP except for those 2 games in TSL? I still cant remember any.
2. I really dont like this weird way of thinking in counters. Marauders counter colossus? What? And tanks?
Thors were never a problem in TvP until people watched 2 games of thorzain and now apparently decided that they were way too good.
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On May 04 2011 22:15 Fungal Growth wrote:Why does Blizzard keep nerfing the expensive/late game units? Mass marauder/roach 15+ minutes into a game is soo boring. It seems like every time we see an inkling that one of the gas heavy units might actually be used for once in a high level game, it gets nerfed
I would guess that a timing push was presented to Blizzard involving Thors, and it was decided that it was simply too powerful/difficult to stop.
Ensnare got void rays nerfed by doing this. And that was fair, void timing pushes were OP.
Incidentally back then those timing pushes weren't that common in pro games yet, but they were increasingly popular on ladder - especially in Korea. I hear thor timing pushes were getting pretty popular on Korean ladder, so that's my guess for the nerf.
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Overall I really like all of the changes they have done this patch.
Now that 4 gate isn't as powerful as before, the 3 gate robo build would likely dominate pvp. This is the next problem blizzard would have face and tweak.
I wouldn't mind if they revert thor change back to it without energy, if they take out the stun along with it.
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For those who think thor energy bar is a bad idea:
Immortals were designed to counter thors (its in the official blizzard sc2 page) it is kinda silly to see the opposite happening. Meaning there are no other options for a protoss player to respond to this build properly, hence the energy bar - a secondary option, which is to use HT to soft counter it then use the actual counter unit to do its job right.
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I dont understand why people dont snipe tech structures or nex/hatch with strike cannons.
a wicked doom drop on an expo would be comprised of 2 thors and a ghost. GG nexus in 6 seconds. Then just pick up and fly away. Is this not viable at all?
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On May 04 2011 22:19 RoachyRoach wrote:
I dont understand why people dont snipe tech structures or nex/hatch with strike cannons.
a wicked doom drop on an expo would be comprised of 2 thors and a ghost. GG nexus in 6 seconds. Then just pick up and fly away. Is this not viable at all?
Strike cannons do 40 more damage over 10 secs than just a normal attack for the thor : / You'd be better off just droping a few marauders.
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On May 04 2011 22:22 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 22:19 RoachyRoach wrote:
I dont understand why people dont snipe tech structures or nex/hatch with strike cannons.
a wicked doom drop on an expo would be comprised of 2 thors and a ghost. GG nexus in 6 seconds. Then just pick up and fly away. Is this not viable at all? Strike cannons do 40 more damage over 10 secs than just a normal attack for the thor : / You'd be better off just droping a few marauders.
Because Marauders do a better job than Thors and are cheaper, it's like why don't people Colossus drop
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IMO they should return Amulet but make it add +17 or +20 energy only (instead of 25) thus requiring around 10 game seconds before HT can use Psi Storm (making it a total of 15 seconds before a Psi Storm occurs if you count the 5 second warp in time).
The Thor change will make HT get more use and it does offer the Terran player more choices to make (should the Terran research Strike Cannons just to use up energy?) but personally I prefer Amulet over Thor having energy >.>.
Archon buff is good. They just need to make Archons immune to neural parasite and Archons will be almost like SC1 Archons (SC1 Archons were immune to Spawn Broodling [though not Parasite for some reason]).
On May 04 2011 22:00 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 21:40 Severedevil wrote:
Can't Immortals just take only 10 damage per hit from the Strike Cannons, too? If it's a big deal that Strike Cannons gib Immortals?
They do. 250mm does 25x20 damage, so Immortals take 10x10 then their hp gets gibbed by the last 15x20. It's not the only reason cooldown thors are boring though. They'd be just as boring if immortals easily gibbed them.
Actually Hardened Shield do not work against Strike Cannons (It's damage considered spell damage and Immortals do not block spell damage with its harden shield).
If Hardened Shield affected Strike Cannon, it will still kill an immortal (it will deal 400 damage total instead of 500) but it would give extra time for the Protoss to respond + The Thor takes longer channeling the spell.
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On May 04 2011 22:26 Goldfish wrote:
Actually Hardened Shield do not work against Strike Cannons (It's damage considered spell damage and Immortals do not block spell damage with its harden shield). While it will still kill an immortal (it will deal 400 damage total instead of 500), it would give extra time for the Protoss to respond + The Thor takes longer channeling the spell.
Really? Could've sworn it was doing 10dmg. No matter, it would make very little difference. Immortals would still be total garbage against thors.
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I like my Protoss nerfs.
But i don't understand the Thor nerf ... well, i understand it, but i think it's too soon to do it. I want Terrans to play more mech, the game is so much more fun then : /
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On May 04 2011 22:22 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 22:19 RoachyRoach wrote:
I dont understand why people dont snipe tech structures or nex/hatch with strike cannons.
a wicked doom drop on an expo would be comprised of 2 thors and a ghost. GG nexus in 6 seconds. Then just pick up and fly away. Is this not viable at all? Strike cannons do 40 more damage over 10 secs than just a normal attack for the thor : / You'd be better off just droping a few marauders.
hmmm
I suppose that a thor ghost drop would be feedback heaven for the P aswell...
I remember for the first couple months of playing this game I thuught the strike cannons was an aoe spell. First time I used it I dropped a thor in a mineral line to hit the probes..remember thinking "wtf is this trash?!" as I strike cannoned a single probe. Take the unit gibbing out and just make it an AoE spell with some damage nerf obviously IMO.
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On May 04 2011 22:17 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 22:15 Fungal Growth wrote:Why does Blizzard keep nerfing the expensive/late game units? Mass marauder/roach 15+ minutes into a game is soo boring. It seems like every time we see an inkling that one of the gas heavy units might actually be used for once in a high level game, it gets nerfed I would guess that a timing push was presented to Blizzard involving Thors, and it was decided that it was simply too powerful/difficult to stop. Ensnare got void rays nerfed by doing this. And that was fair, void timing pushes were OP. Incidentally back then those timing pushes weren't that common in pro games yet, but they were increasingly popular on ladder - especially in Korea. I hear thor timing pushes were getting pretty popular on Korean ladder, so that's my guess for the nerf.
So to get colossus nerved, one only needs to find a timing push involving colossus that feels to strong?
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EPT
