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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On May 04 2011 21:24 marvellosity wrote:
You know guys, they probably made this change to the Thor because practically every single one of Protoss' ground units is countered by Thors once they have Strike Cannons.
Terrans should use Thors more. Thorzain - MC for example on Crossfire.
But every ground unit Terran has is countered by Colossus and they're still intact
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On May 04 2011 21:22 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 20:52 dump wrote:On May 04 2011 20:48 nihlon wrote:On May 04 2011 20:44 dump wrote:On May 04 2011 20:37 Gigaudas wrote:On May 04 2011 20:34 dump wrote:On May 04 2011 20:29 Dingobloo wrote:On May 04 2011 20:11 dump wrote:On May 04 2011 20:08 freetgy wrote:On May 04 2011 20:04 Falcor wrote:
so what ur saying is army balls clashing into each other is a good thing?
Id prefer my infestors to be faster then my army so i can micro manage my fragile and expensive units easier thank you they have the biggest range anyway, don't get that reason for Micro. While you had to micro pre this patch, now you can play alot more usual flank a-move style with good positioning since there speed matches the rest of the army (i.e. Hydras) That the whole reason this it is considered a buff. No need for baby sitting anymore. We need to start adding skill cap to the vocabulary. The speed reduction is plainly a nerf, but for the most part it makes it easier to use. We shouldn't say "this is a buff"; we should say that "it decreases the skill cap". Otherwise we're going to be talking about this forever. Having to know when to commit with infestors does not reduce the skill cap, sorry. It makes large army management easier, but it also makes them harder to micro, harder to retreat, and harder to get out of range of ghosts. You're missing the point. For lower tier players who don't keep their army together as they're moving around, this makes things a lot easier -- so yes, it lowers the skill cap. Above that it has less effect except when you're using it for harassment. How is it easier, the Infestors are already slower than most popular Zerg units? What? Roach is 2.25, as is hydra. Infestor was 2.5, and now it's 2.25. Roach is 3.0 with lair tech. I don't think that constitutes "most". Zerglings are off the charts and need to be managed separately anyway, so they don't even count. The point is that there are more units traveling at the same speed now -- not that infestor is faster or slower than another. Even noobs know how to research roach speed. And hydra... lolz. He said the popular units. You think hydras aren't popular?? http://www.sc2replayed.com/statisticsUnit distribution: zerglings top at 42.61%, hydras second at 13.76%, roaches third at 13.26%. You can't play a lot of zerg... And those statistic mean absolutely nothing. You can't with an honest face tell me that people are making more hydras then roaches if you have any clue what you are doing. They are essentially useless in ZvT, and pointless in ZvP if you opponent makes collosi. In ZvZ a lot of players have basically replaced them with infestors. Tell me one pro zerg player that makes hydras consistently? They are a basically an emergancy unit when you fast need anti-air or in situations where you opponents let you make use of their range (mostly ZvP). But they are by no means "popular"
We're talking about lower tier players, so yes, I'm talking about people who don't play a lot of zerg -- or a lot of SC for that matter.
Either way, in general, their being slower prevents them from darting ahead to the exact point of your a-move so quickly as if they're melee units.
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As a Toss, I applaud the Thor change...
But I honestly would be fine with not requiring T to research an upgrade at this point. It takes forever to charge up, can only be used once, and makes Thor into major feedback bait--I think requiring a 150/150 upgrade on top of that is kinda unnecessary.
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On May 04 2011 21:30 awesomoecalypse wrote:
As a Toss, I applaud the Thor change...
But I honestly would be fine with not requiring T to research an upgrade at this point. It takes forever to charge up, can only be used once, and makes Thor into major feedback bait--I think requiring a 150/150 upgrade on top of that is kinda unnecessary.
I wouldn't mind this that much
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do they really think the 20 secs warpgate (ingame time + chrono boost probably like 8 secs) will change pvp?
and kinda funny they nerf thors because of one single player (thorzain). at least i dont know any good other terran using thors like him.
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But every ground unit Terran has is countered by Colossus and they're still intact
Except, you know, Tanks and Thors kick the crap out of Colossus.
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On May 04 2011 21:32 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +
But every ground unit Terran has is countered by Colossus and they're still intact
Except, you know, Tanks and Thors kick the crap out of Colossus.
Not really.
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On May 04 2011 21:26 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 21:24 marvellosity wrote:
You know guys, they probably made this change to the Thor because practically every single one of Protoss' ground units is countered by Thors once they have Strike Cannons.
Terrans should use Thors more. Thorzain - MC for example on Crossfire. But every ground unit Terran has is countered by Colossus and they're still intact
i love how for months people have been telling zerg that we dont know how to play our race and that we cant let prot get to the 200/200 death ball, we need to drop and nydus and multi pronged attack etc. But for litterally 2 days after a strat is shown that looks strong vs prot. insta nerf for the "op build"
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And you know, Thors can't be hit by air to air like the Colossus
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On May 04 2011 20:55 Ezekyle wrote:
The problem isn't that HT are being buffed, because they aren't.
I said the tech path is being buffed, which it obviously is. Templars are more useful - they can feedback Thors - and of course archons are buffed.
The problem is that thors are being nerfed for no good reason.
I think it's a perfectly good reason. Immortals shouldn't die horribly to thors, with no way of preventing it.
Giving thors energy won't make HTs more useful, it'll make thors less useful.
It does both. Giving any unit energy is going to make HTs more useful, because they have something to damage units with energy.
Also collosi are still better at dealing with thors than HTs on account of a single collosus being able to kill infinity thors, but that's another matter entirely.
Yeah you clearly don't play Protoss. Colossi are fucking awful against Thors. They do no splash and thus have pitiful damage, and die to 250mm.
The moral of this story is; if you want to make a unit better either buff it or nerf the units that counter it. Nerfing a completely unrelated and equally underused unit is just plain dumb.
If you buff HTs, they become stronger against everything (this would be bad, they're plenty strong against many things). SC doesn't have counter units so dunno what you're referring to there. Thor should be nerfed in this way, because the current setup makes for bad gameplay. There is no skill in stopping Thors, you just need more shit than him. This makes Thor a very boring unit. With energy, there are interesting dynamics. Terran can use up the energy, or go Thor to bait templar then kill them with ghosts, immortals are viable against them again, and so on.
Perhaps this makes Thors too weak - give it some other buff then. But it should have energy.
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Can't Immortals just take only 10 damage per hit from the Strike Cannons, too? If it's a big deal that Strike Cannons gib Immortals?
Although it seems to me that Strike Cannons are just plain done wrong, and that they should be longer range, and an AOE ground-target channel spell. The way they are now is kind of bizarre; it doesn't do a lot besides murder Archons, Immortals, and other Thors.
As a 150-mana single-target spell, it should really have more range. That way Thors could kill Colossi IF the Thor has mana, but Protoss could combat that eventuality via Feedback...
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On May 04 2011 20:18 no.1 kissy boy wrote:
This Thor change isn't very well thought out imo. Like other posters have said, this just eliminates any possibility of mech play from TvP and just reinforces the notion that you must go bio/ghost in TvP.
Also it's weird now because HTs can storm bio and banshees and feedback thors, battlecruisers, medivacs, ghosts, ravens and banshees. Maybe they should also get something to deal with tanks then, since they're at it.
Yes, they could give each tank a starting energy of 50 and max 250 and each time a tank goes to siege mode it costs 50 energy :D
They could then return the old tank damage and maybe tanks would be balanced :D
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so mech got officialy killed in tvp, thx blizzard
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On May 04 2011 21:40 Severedevil wrote:
Can't Immortals just take only 10 damage per hit from the Strike Cannons, too? If it's a big deal that Strike Cannons gib Immortals?
it stuns the immortal..and after the dmg is done it still 1 hits the immortal
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On May 04 2011 21:40 Severedevil wrote:
Can't Immortals just take only 10 damage per hit from the Strike Cannons, too? If it's a big deal that Strike Cannons gib Immortals?
Although it seems to me that Strike Cannons are just plain done wrong, and that they should be longer range, and an AOE ground-target channel spell. The way they are now is kind of bizarre; it doesn't do a lot besides murder Archons, Immortals, and other Thors.
As a 150-mana single-target spell, it should really have more range. That way Thors could kill Colossi IF the Thor has mana, but Protoss could combat that eventuality via Feedback...
Yeah I'd love a range buff on Thor cannons
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On May 04 2011 21:40 Severedevil wrote:
Can't Immortals just take only 10 damage per hit from the Strike Cannons, too? If it's a big deal that Strike Cannons gib Immortals?
They do. 250mm does 25x20 damage, so Immortals take 10x10 then their hp gets gibbed by the last 15x20.
It's not the only reason cooldown thors are boring though. They'd be just as boring if immortals easily gibbed them.
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Thor
Thor now has 200 max energy, and starts with 50 energy.
250mm Strike Cannons now cost 150 energy to use (cooldown removed).
This is absolutely logical. Thors are very good against all Protoss units, they have strike cannons which is too good against their ''counter'' immortal AND they don't die easily. Feedback should be the way to deal with them, especially now that storm has been nerfed.
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People should make phoenix immortal to counter Thors, cuz Graviton beam saves units from strike cannons =D
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Uhg, I don't much care for the thor change, it just means that thors are not going to be a viable unit in tvp once templars are out, and they're not really great early game (outside of rushes), so we probably will not see thors at all.
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EPT
