EPTPatch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 162
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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong. It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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Cosmos
Belgium1077 Posts
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XothermeK
United Arab Emirates245 Posts
We're back to square one with a stupid change like that, I thought they already came to a good conclusion why thor with energy doesn't make sense. | ||
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Dingobloo
Australia1903 Posts
On May 04 2011 20:11 dump wrote: We need to start adding skill cap to the vocabulary. The speed reduction is plainly a nerf, but for the most part it makes it easier to use. We shouldn't say "this is a buff"; we should say that "it decreases the skill cap". Otherwise we're going to be talking about this forever. Having to know when to commit with infestors does not reduce the skill cap, sorry. It makes large army management easier, but it also makes them harder to micro, harder to retreat, and harder to get out of range of ghosts. | ||
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FarbrorAbavna
Sweden4856 Posts
On May 04 2011 17:21 sadyque wrote: Dude its a 10% speed nerf not 200%...The infestor is still gonna get caught by the same units as before.... You aint escaping stimmed marauders with or w/o 10%. You might not suffer from 1a syndrome and neither does Idra or Losira (see games vs sc) but it seems their infestors still somehow run ahead of the main army.... I'm not sure what you are responding to and why. You basically said what I did but in a different way. Edit: infestors running ahead of other units even when idra or losira plays just shows the skill it requires(or gasp, they have poor unit control at times) not that the infestor should be slowed down. That's what it shows. Also the speed of 2.25 now makes it as fast as or slower than(stalker and reaper) all units that come out of a barracks or gateway/warpgate. So you wont even need stim to keep shooting the infestor if you have good stutter step micro. But as I said I dont think that necessarily will mean it's gonna be much different from how it is now hence why I find it interesting that blizz decided on this change. | ||
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dump
Japan514 Posts
On May 04 2011 20:29 Dingobloo wrote: Having to know when to commit with infestors does not reduce the skill cap, sorry. It makes large army management easier, but it also makes them harder to micro, harder to retreat, and harder to get out of range of ghosts. You're missing the point. For lower tier players who don't keep their army together as they're moving around, this makes things a lot easier -- so yes, it lowers the skill cap. Above that it has less effect except when you're using it for harassment. | ||
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Gigaudas
Sweden1213 Posts
On May 04 2011 20:34 dump wrote: You're missing the point. For lower tier players who don't keep their army together as they're moving around, this makes things a lot easier -- so yes, it lowers the skill cap. Above that it has less effect except when you're using it for harassment. How is it easier, the Infestors are already slower than most popular Zerg units? | ||
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FarbrorAbavna
Sweden4856 Posts
On May 04 2011 20:28 XothermeK wrote: Thor with energy again?.... COMON BLIZZARD MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MINDS FFS! We're back to square one with a stupid change like that, I thought they already came to a good conclusion why thor with energy doesn't make sense. It's the ptr, it's meant to try different things out. The game has changed since the cooldown was implemented and they wanna see just how it works out with energy again. | ||
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Mercury-
Great Britain804 Posts
On May 04 2011 20:37 FarbrorAbavna wrote: It's the ptr, it's meant to try different things out. The game has changed since the cooldown was implemented and they wanna see just how it works out with energy again. Yeah now you need 2 EMPs to clear your Thors' energy before battle lol | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
I'm still hoping that Blizzard will come to their senses and not implement this change in the actual patch. | ||
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dump
Japan514 Posts
On May 04 2011 20:37 Gigaudas wrote: How is it easier, the Infestors are already slower than most popular Zerg units? What? Roach is 2.25, as is hydra. Infestor was 2.5, and now it's 2.25. Roach is 3.0 with lair tech. I don't think that constitutes "most". Zerglings are off the charts and need to be managed separately anyway, so they don't even count. The point is that there are more units traveling at the same speed now -- not that infestor is faster or slower than another. | ||
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b0uh34
France10 Posts
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Despicatus
34 Posts
I've had 200/200 3/3/3 immortal/chargelot/archons evaporating to mass thors. Beiing able to Feedback is going to make immortal/templar way more viable. Also this lines up well with the Ghost change. P needs immortal / templar to deal with Thors? Now terran can probalby go for not so many Thors with Ghosts. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
It's kinda sad that people moan so much about colossi being omnipresent, then they moan some more when Blizzard helps out the alternative tech path...I guess people just want every Toss tech path nerfed into oblivion. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On May 04 2011 20:44 dump wrote: What? Roach is 2.25, as is hydra. Infestor was 2.5, and now it's 2.25. Roach is 3.0 with lair tech. I don't think that constitutes "most". Zerglings are off the charts and need to be managed separately anyway, so they don't even count. The point is that there are more units traveling at the same speed now -- not that infestor is faster or slower than another. Even noobs know how to research roach speed. Also you need lair for infestors so that point fails hard and if you get so far that you have infestors you have roach speed if you go with roaches. And hydra... lolz. He said the popular units. | ||
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dump
Japan514 Posts
On May 04 2011 20:48 nihlon wrote: Even noobs know how to research roach speed. And hydra... lolz. He said the popular units. You think hydras aren't popular?? http://www.sc2replayed.com/statistics Unit distribution: zerglings top at 42.61%, hydras second at 13.76%, roaches third at 13.26%. | ||
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Dreaming11
United Kingdom105 Posts
On May 04 2011 20:23 Teoita wrote: As a p player, i don't understand the thor nerf in the slightest. It just doesn't make sense, p does really have that much trouble vs thors. There's good tvp builds that are not even close to being imbalanced and can be beaten with good scouting, and this patch pretty much kills them for no good reason. I think it's intended as a buff to HT to encourage HT / Archon play in PvT, rather than a nerf to thors. | ||
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
On May 04 2011 20:47 Despicatus wrote: I kinda like the Thor change, since thor tech switches could be insanely strong in PvT since you couldn't really go for Immortals whenever there where enough Thors. I've had 200/200 3/3/3 immortal/chargelot/archons evaporating to mass thors. Beiing able to Feedback is going to make immortal/templar way more viable. Also this lines up well with the Ghost change. P needs immortal / templar to deal with Thors? Now terran can probalby go for not so many Thors with Ghosts. Thor tech switches? How? You mean like tech switch from bio to mech? Terrans cant do that. Unless you're talking about a super lategame switch where you put up like 5 factories and just start making thors? I'm a little confused as to what you are talking about. Thors were never a problem. There are so many ways to deal with thors, we dont need any more. On May 04 2011 20:52 Dreaming11 wrote: I think it's intended as a buff to HT to encourage HT / Archon play in PvT, rather than a nerf to thors. It wont make more protoss players use more HTs, it'll just make terrans not use thors. I mean terran players were already going bio 99.5% of the time, now it'll just be 100% of the time. If they wanted protoss players to use HTs more then maybe they should make them good against bio, not mech. Edit: guy below me also explained it quite well  | ||
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Ezekyle
Australia607 Posts
On May 04 2011 20:47 Yaotzin wrote: Like the changes. Thors instagibbing immortals with no way to stop it was dumb. Archons might actually be a viable unit now. Pity they're helping Zergs who have no unit control, but I predict they'll find other, more creative ways to suicide their infestors. It's kinda sad that people moan so much about colossi being omnipresent, then they moan some more when Blizzard helps out the alternative tech path...I guess people just want every Toss tech path nerfed into oblivion. The problem isn't that HT are being buffed, because they aren't. The problem is that thors are being nerfed for no good reason. Giving thors energy won't make HTs more useful, it'll make thors less useful. This means they won't be seen as often, and on the rare occasions they are used feedback roflstomps them, so people stop using them entirely and the game has become less diverse and interesting while the supposed HT buff has no impact. Also collosi are still better at dealing with thors than HTs on account of a single collosus being able to kill infinity thors, but that's another matter entirely. The moral of this story is; if you want to make a unit better either buff it or nerf the units that counter it. Nerfing a completely unrelated and equally underused unit is just plain dumb. | ||
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Gulzt
Netherlands275 Posts
On May 04 2011 20:41 Telcontar wrote: Please don't say Thors will still be viable. Can you even recall a pro ever using a mass thor strategy when they had energy and required 150 of it to use strike cannon? NO and there's a good reason for that. You can theorise all you want about getting ghosts to emp your own thors but without the actual ability to use strike cannons against immortals and colossi and the fact that having to get ghosts will be a requirement whenever you go mass thor which will eat into your upgrades as well as viking production will mean the strat will be virtually dead. I'm still hoping that Blizzard will come to their senses and not implement this change in the actual patch. Have all your thors destroy a rock before you engage might do the trick too. But to the point, I think the reason blizzard implemented this is to stimulate the usage of the strike cannon. In a way you are forced to upgrade the strike cannon this way, and maybe people figure out some good usage for it. If that won't be the case it's probably reverted in a later patch. | ||
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