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Patch 1.3.3 PTR - Page 162

Forum Index > SC2 General
4401 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 160 161 162 163 164 221 Next
Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
May 04 2011 11:23 GMT
#3221
As a p player, i don't understand the thor nerf in the slightest. It just doesn't make sense, p does really have that much trouble vs thors. There's good tvp builds that are not even close to being imbalanced and can be beaten with good scouting, and this patch pretty much kills them for no good reason.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Cosmos
Profile Joined March 2010
Belgium1077 Posts
May 04 2011 11:26 GMT
#3222
The update still makes it a terrible patch but it's better than the original...
http://www.twitch.tv/becosmos
XothermeK
Profile Joined May 2010
United Arab Emirates245 Posts
May 04 2011 11:28 GMT
#3223
Thor with energy again?.... COMON BLIZZARD MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MINDS FFS!
We're back to square one with a stupid change like that, I thought they already came to a good conclusion why thor with energy doesn't make sense.
Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
May 04 2011 11:29 GMT
#3224
On May 04 2011 20:11 dump wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 20:08 freetgy wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:04 Falcor wrote:
so what ur saying is army balls clashing into each other is a good thing?

Id prefer my infestors to be faster then my army so i can micro manage my fragile and expensive units easier thank you


they have the biggest range anyway, don't get that reason for Micro.
While you had to micro pre this patch, now you can play alot more usual flank a-move style with good positioning since there speed matches the rest of the army (i.e. Hydras)
That the whole reason this it is considered a buff. No need for baby sitting anymore.


We need to start adding skill cap to the vocabulary. The speed reduction is plainly a nerf, but for the most part it makes it easier to use.

We shouldn't say "this is a buff"; we should say that "it decreases the skill cap". Otherwise we're going to be talking about this forever.


Having to know when to commit with infestors does not reduce the skill cap, sorry. It makes large army management easier, but it also makes them harder to micro, harder to retreat, and harder to get out of range of ghosts.
FarbrorAbavna
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden4856 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 11:46:40
May 04 2011 11:33 GMT
#3225
On May 04 2011 17:21 sadyque wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 17:13 FarbrorAbavna wrote:
unlike alot of people I dont keep my units in one control group and hence dont really have a problem with infestors running ahead of my other units. So the decrease in speed is not a buff at all, it's a nerf. If you regard it as a buff that's because of your poor control not the unit being too fast.

That said, infestors are fucking strong as it is now(fungal growth and infested marines how I love thee). Too strong I dont really know and I dont play on the ptr but having given it some thought my initial impression is that lowering the speed feels like it wont really affect much other than the mortality rate of said unit. It probably wont do anything else than make the infestor even more of a baneling unit, you run in and do some dmg(hopefully) and then it dies even if you do control it near perfectly.

Looking forward to the next change in the ptr(or just the patch when it comes out), I believe in blizz balancing team and find this change really interesting and maybe it will have enough of an effect on the unit to quell the people who go on and on about how the infestor is too strong but wont nerf it too hard and it will more or less be what it was before. Atleast blizz is trying something else than tinkering with the spells.

Dude its a 10% speed nerf not 200%...The infestor is still gonna get caught by the same units as before.... You aint escaping stimmed marauders with or w/o 10%.
You might not suffer from 1a syndrome and neither does Idra or Losira (see games vs sc) but it seems their infestors still somehow run ahead of the main army....

I'm not sure what you are responding to and why. You basically said what I did but in a different way.

Edit: infestors running ahead of other units even when idra or losira plays just shows the skill it requires(or gasp, they have poor unit control at times) not that the infestor should be slowed down. That's what it shows.

Also the speed of 2.25 now makes it as fast as or slower than(stalker and reaper) all units that come out of a barracks or gateway/warpgate. So you wont even need stim to keep shooting the infestor if you have good stutter step micro. But as I said I dont think that necessarily will mean it's gonna be much different from how it is now hence why I find it interesting that blizz decided on this change.
Do you really want chat rooms?
dump
Profile Joined August 2010
Japan514 Posts
May 04 2011 11:34 GMT
#3226
On May 04 2011 20:29 Dingobloo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 20:11 dump wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:08 freetgy wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:04 Falcor wrote:
so what ur saying is army balls clashing into each other is a good thing?

Id prefer my infestors to be faster then my army so i can micro manage my fragile and expensive units easier thank you


they have the biggest range anyway, don't get that reason for Micro.
While you had to micro pre this patch, now you can play alot more usual flank a-move style with good positioning since there speed matches the rest of the army (i.e. Hydras)
That the whole reason this it is considered a buff. No need for baby sitting anymore.


We need to start adding skill cap to the vocabulary. The speed reduction is plainly a nerf, but for the most part it makes it easier to use.

We shouldn't say "this is a buff"; we should say that "it decreases the skill cap". Otherwise we're going to be talking about this forever.


Having to know when to commit with infestors does not reduce the skill cap, sorry. It makes large army management easier, but it also makes them harder to micro, harder to retreat, and harder to get out of range of ghosts.

You're missing the point.

For lower tier players who don't keep their army together as they're moving around, this makes things a lot easier -- so yes, it lowers the skill cap. Above that it has less effect except when you're using it for harassment.
Gigaudas
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Sweden1213 Posts
May 04 2011 11:37 GMT
#3227
On May 04 2011 20:34 dump wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 20:29 Dingobloo wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:11 dump wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:08 freetgy wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:04 Falcor wrote:
so what ur saying is army balls clashing into each other is a good thing?

Id prefer my infestors to be faster then my army so i can micro manage my fragile and expensive units easier thank you


they have the biggest range anyway, don't get that reason for Micro.
While you had to micro pre this patch, now you can play alot more usual flank a-move style with good positioning since there speed matches the rest of the army (i.e. Hydras)
That the whole reason this it is considered a buff. No need for baby sitting anymore.


We need to start adding skill cap to the vocabulary. The speed reduction is plainly a nerf, but for the most part it makes it easier to use.

We shouldn't say "this is a buff"; we should say that "it decreases the skill cap". Otherwise we're going to be talking about this forever.


Having to know when to commit with infestors does not reduce the skill cap, sorry. It makes large army management easier, but it also makes them harder to micro, harder to retreat, and harder to get out of range of ghosts.

You're missing the point.

For lower tier players who don't keep their army together as they're moving around, this makes things a lot easier -- so yes, it lowers the skill cap. Above that it has less effect except when you're using it for harassment.


How is it easier, the Infestors are already slower than most popular Zerg units?
I
FarbrorAbavna
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden4856 Posts
May 04 2011 11:37 GMT
#3228
On May 04 2011 20:28 XothermeK wrote:
Thor with energy again?.... COMON BLIZZARD MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MINDS FFS!
We're back to square one with a stupid change like that, I thought they already came to a good conclusion why thor with energy doesn't make sense.

It's the ptr, it's meant to try different things out. The game has changed since the cooldown was implemented and they wanna see just how it works out with energy again.
Do you really want chat rooms?
Mercury-
Profile Joined December 2010
Great Britain804 Posts
May 04 2011 11:40 GMT
#3229
On May 04 2011 20:37 FarbrorAbavna wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 20:28 XothermeK wrote:
Thor with energy again?.... COMON BLIZZARD MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MINDS FFS!
We're back to square one with a stupid change like that, I thought they already came to a good conclusion why thor with energy doesn't make sense.

It's the ptr, it's meant to try different things out. The game has changed since the cooldown was implemented and they wanna see just how it works out with energy again.

Yeah now you need 2 EMPs to clear your Thors' energy before battle lol
Telcontar
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom16710 Posts
May 04 2011 11:41 GMT
#3230
Please don't say Thors will still be viable. Can you even recall a pro ever using a mass thor strategy when they had energy and required 150 of it to use strike cannon? NO and there's a good reason for that. You can theorise all you want about getting ghosts to emp your own thors but without the actual ability to use strike cannons against immortals and colossi and the fact that having to get ghosts will be a requirement whenever you go mass thor which will eat into your upgrades as well as viking production will mean the strat will be virtually dead.

I'm still hoping that Blizzard will come to their senses and not implement this change in the actual patch.
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
dump
Profile Joined August 2010
Japan514 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 11:47:34
May 04 2011 11:44 GMT
#3231
On May 04 2011 20:37 Gigaudas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 20:34 dump wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:29 Dingobloo wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:11 dump wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:08 freetgy wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:04 Falcor wrote:
so what ur saying is army balls clashing into each other is a good thing?

Id prefer my infestors to be faster then my army so i can micro manage my fragile and expensive units easier thank you


they have the biggest range anyway, don't get that reason for Micro.
While you had to micro pre this patch, now you can play alot more usual flank a-move style with good positioning since there speed matches the rest of the army (i.e. Hydras)
That the whole reason this it is considered a buff. No need for baby sitting anymore.


We need to start adding skill cap to the vocabulary. The speed reduction is plainly a nerf, but for the most part it makes it easier to use.

We shouldn't say "this is a buff"; we should say that "it decreases the skill cap". Otherwise we're going to be talking about this forever.


Having to know when to commit with infestors does not reduce the skill cap, sorry. It makes large army management easier, but it also makes them harder to micro, harder to retreat, and harder to get out of range of ghosts.

You're missing the point.

For lower tier players who don't keep their army together as they're moving around, this makes things a lot easier -- so yes, it lowers the skill cap. Above that it has less effect except when you're using it for harassment.


How is it easier, the Infestors are already slower than most popular Zerg units?


What?

Roach is 2.25, as is hydra. Infestor was 2.5, and now it's 2.25.

Roach is 3.0 with lair tech. I don't think that constitutes "most". Zerglings are off the charts and need to be managed separately anyway, so they don't even count.

The point is that there are more units traveling at the same speed now -- not that infestor is faster or slower than another.
b0uh34
Profile Joined March 2011
France10 Posts
May 04 2011 11:45 GMT
#3232
Well i am really surprised that no one is talking about archon. It will change the ZvP MU a lot. The difference of range will change muta and sling harass!
Despicatus
Profile Joined January 2011
34 Posts
May 04 2011 11:47 GMT
#3233
I kinda like the Thor change, since thor tech switches could be insanely strong in PvT since you couldn't really go for Immortals whenever there where enough Thors.
I've had 200/200 3/3/3 immortal/chargelot/archons evaporating to mass thors. Beiing able to Feedback is going to make immortal/templar way more viable.

Also this lines up well with the Ghost change. P needs immortal / templar to deal with Thors? Now terran can probalby go for not so many Thors with Ghosts.
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
May 04 2011 11:47 GMT
#3234
Like the changes. Thors instagibbing immortals with no way to stop it was dumb. Archons might actually be a viable unit now. Pity they're helping Zergs who have no unit control, but I predict they'll find other, more creative ways to suicide their infestors.

It's kinda sad that people moan so much about colossi being omnipresent, then they moan some more when Blizzard helps out the alternative tech path...I guess people just want every Toss tech path nerfed into oblivion.
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 11:51:47
May 04 2011 11:48 GMT
#3235
On May 04 2011 20:44 dump wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 20:37 Gigaudas wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:34 dump wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:29 Dingobloo wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:11 dump wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:08 freetgy wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:04 Falcor wrote:
so what ur saying is army balls clashing into each other is a good thing?

Id prefer my infestors to be faster then my army so i can micro manage my fragile and expensive units easier thank you


they have the biggest range anyway, don't get that reason for Micro.
While you had to micro pre this patch, now you can play alot more usual flank a-move style with good positioning since there speed matches the rest of the army (i.e. Hydras)
That the whole reason this it is considered a buff. No need for baby sitting anymore.


We need to start adding skill cap to the vocabulary. The speed reduction is plainly a nerf, but for the most part it makes it easier to use.

We shouldn't say "this is a buff"; we should say that "it decreases the skill cap". Otherwise we're going to be talking about this forever.


Having to know when to commit with infestors does not reduce the skill cap, sorry. It makes large army management easier, but it also makes them harder to micro, harder to retreat, and harder to get out of range of ghosts.

You're missing the point.

For lower tier players who don't keep their army together as they're moving around, this makes things a lot easier -- so yes, it lowers the skill cap. Above that it has less effect except when you're using it for harassment.


How is it easier, the Infestors are already slower than most popular Zerg units?


What?

Roach is 2.25, as is hydra. Infestor was 2.5, and now it's 2.25.

Roach is 3.0 with lair tech. I don't think that constitutes "most". Zerglings are off the charts and need to be managed separately anyway, so they don't even count.

The point is that there are more units traveling at the same speed now -- not that infestor is faster or slower than another.


Even noobs know how to research roach speed. Also you need lair for infestors so that point fails hard and if you get so far that you have infestors you have roach speed if you go with roaches. And hydra... lolz. He said the popular units.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
dump
Profile Joined August 2010
Japan514 Posts
May 04 2011 11:52 GMT
#3236
On May 04 2011 20:48 nihlon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 20:44 dump wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:37 Gigaudas wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:34 dump wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:29 Dingobloo wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:11 dump wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:08 freetgy wrote:
On May 04 2011 20:04 Falcor wrote:
so what ur saying is army balls clashing into each other is a good thing?

Id prefer my infestors to be faster then my army so i can micro manage my fragile and expensive units easier thank you


they have the biggest range anyway, don't get that reason for Micro.
While you had to micro pre this patch, now you can play alot more usual flank a-move style with good positioning since there speed matches the rest of the army (i.e. Hydras)
That the whole reason this it is considered a buff. No need for baby sitting anymore.


We need to start adding skill cap to the vocabulary. The speed reduction is plainly a nerf, but for the most part it makes it easier to use.

We shouldn't say "this is a buff"; we should say that "it decreases the skill cap". Otherwise we're going to be talking about this forever.


Having to know when to commit with infestors does not reduce the skill cap, sorry. It makes large army management easier, but it also makes them harder to micro, harder to retreat, and harder to get out of range of ghosts.

You're missing the point.

For lower tier players who don't keep their army together as they're moving around, this makes things a lot easier -- so yes, it lowers the skill cap. Above that it has less effect except when you're using it for harassment.


How is it easier, the Infestors are already slower than most popular Zerg units?


What?

Roach is 2.25, as is hydra. Infestor was 2.5, and now it's 2.25.

Roach is 3.0 with lair tech. I don't think that constitutes "most". Zerglings are off the charts and need to be managed separately anyway, so they don't even count.

The point is that there are more units traveling at the same speed now -- not that infestor is faster or slower than another.


Even noobs know how to research roach speed. And hydra... lolz. He said the popular units.


You think hydras aren't popular??

http://www.sc2replayed.com/statistics

Unit distribution: zerglings top at 42.61%, hydras second at 13.76%, roaches third at 13.26%.
Dreaming11
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom105 Posts
May 04 2011 11:52 GMT
#3237
On May 04 2011 20:23 Teoita wrote:
As a p player, i don't understand the thor nerf in the slightest. It just doesn't make sense, p does really have that much trouble vs thors. There's good tvp builds that are not even close to being imbalanced and can be beaten with good scouting, and this patch pretty much kills them for no good reason.


I think it's intended as a buff to HT to encourage HT / Archon play in PvT, rather than a nerf to thors.
Deadlyfish
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark1980 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 11:56:55
May 04 2011 11:53 GMT
#3238
On May 04 2011 20:47 Despicatus wrote:
I kinda like the Thor change, since thor tech switches could be insanely strong in PvT since you couldn't really go for Immortals whenever there where enough Thors.
I've had 200/200 3/3/3 immortal/chargelot/archons evaporating to mass thors. Beiing able to Feedback is going to make immortal/templar way more viable.

Also this lines up well with the Ghost change. P needs immortal / templar to deal with Thors? Now terran can probalby go for not so many Thors with Ghosts.



Thor tech switches? How?

You mean like tech switch from bio to mech? Terrans cant do that. Unless you're talking about a super lategame switch where you put up like 5 factories and just start making thors? I'm a little confused as to what you are talking about.

Thors were never a problem. There are so many ways to deal with thors, we dont need any more.


On May 04 2011 20:52 Dreaming11 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 20:23 Teoita wrote:
As a p player, i don't understand the thor nerf in the slightest. It just doesn't make sense, p does really have that much trouble vs thors. There's good tvp builds that are not even close to being imbalanced and can be beaten with good scouting, and this patch pretty much kills them for no good reason.


I think it's intended as a buff to HT to encourage HT / Archon play in PvT, rather than a nerf to thors.



It wont make more protoss players use more HTs, it'll just make terrans not use thors. I mean terran players were already going bio 99.5% of the time, now it'll just be 100% of the time. If they wanted protoss players to use HTs more then maybe they should make them good against bio, not mech.

Edit: guy below me also explained it quite well
If wishes were horses we'd be eating steak right now.
Ezekyle
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia607 Posts
May 04 2011 11:55 GMT
#3239
On May 04 2011 20:47 Yaotzin wrote:
Like the changes. Thors instagibbing immortals with no way to stop it was dumb. Archons might actually be a viable unit now. Pity they're helping Zergs who have no unit control, but I predict they'll find other, more creative ways to suicide their infestors.

It's kinda sad that people moan so much about colossi being omnipresent, then they moan some more when Blizzard helps out the alternative tech path...I guess people just want every Toss tech path nerfed into oblivion.

The problem isn't that HT are being buffed, because they aren't. The problem is that thors are being nerfed for no good reason. Giving thors energy won't make HTs more useful, it'll make thors less useful. This means they won't be seen as often, and on the rare occasions they are used feedback roflstomps them, so people stop using them entirely and the game has become less diverse and interesting while the supposed HT buff has no impact. Also collosi are still better at dealing with thors than HTs on account of a single collosus being able to kill infinity thors, but that's another matter entirely.

The moral of this story is; if you want to make a unit better either buff it or nerf the units that counter it. Nerfing a completely unrelated and equally underused unit is just plain dumb.
Gulzt
Profile Joined August 2009
Netherlands275 Posts
May 04 2011 11:57 GMT
#3240
On May 04 2011 20:41 Telcontar wrote:
Please don't say Thors will still be viable. Can you even recall a pro ever using a mass thor strategy when they had energy and required 150 of it to use strike cannon? NO and there's a good reason for that. You can theorise all you want about getting ghosts to emp your own thors but without the actual ability to use strike cannons against immortals and colossi and the fact that having to get ghosts will be a requirement whenever you go mass thor which will eat into your upgrades as well as viking production will mean the strat will be virtually dead.

I'm still hoping that Blizzard will come to their senses and not implement this change in the actual patch.


Have all your thors destroy a rock before you engage might do the trick too.

But to the point, I think the reason blizzard implemented this is to stimulate the usage of the strike cannon. In a way you are forced to upgrade the strike cannon this way, and maybe people figure out some good usage for it.
If that won't be the case it's probably reverted in a later patch.
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