Do you think it's fair at all? The reason the Finals / RO4 / RO8 matchups are upgraded to Bo5 / 7 is because the qualified players are more skilled to to require more games to distinguish their skill levels.

Code S is a pretty high skill leveled tournament and I don't think it's fair to have BO1 at all given the player's skill level.

I find it ironic that there are Bo3's in Code A and Up and Down whilst Code S have to duke it out in a BO1.

What are your opinion towards it? I was kind of surprised that people are complaining over Dreamhack' Bo1 with ActionJesus 6 pooling out of his group while not complaining about a much higher calibre tournament (Code S) having BO1's

Valikyr

Sweden2653 Posts

April 25 2011 18:30 GMT

The BO1 groups are very stupid and they are most likely the reason we often see the best players"slumping" out of their groups. With bo1's so much can happen this early in the game with a metagame that's turned upside down every month and every other player preparing specifically to take a win against a favorite.

Azzur

Australia6259 Posts

April 25 2011 18:31 GMT

The "bo1" group format is used in the OSL and MSL and no one complains about it. But regardless, the group stages is effectively a bo3 but with the possibility of a player playing 3 different opponents. A bo1 implies that 1 loss would lead to elimination, which is not the case.

Overpowered

Czech Republic764 Posts

April 25 2011 18:33 GMT

I think it is bad. Code A system is way better in my opinion and I hope they take away these BO1 groups from Code S, its really ruining it I think.

MK4512

Canada938 Posts

April 25 2011 18:33 GMT

Group stages like the ones used in Code S are actually then a Bo3 format because it allows players to play against everyone in the group and not just the favourite, and getting crushed, where there might be two lesser players in a different Bo3. I personally think it's a great system, and allows me to see two of my favourite players vs eachother, without a 100% chance of either of them being knocked to the up and downs.

It's not a Bo1 though, theres a HUGE difference between the two.

Veldril

Thailand1817 Posts

April 25 2011 18:34 GMT

I think the BO1 is good in RO32 group stage, which make it not exactly a BO1, but not further in the tournament. It tests players in the aspect that they need to be prepared to most possible scenarios and MUs. True, they might get the same MUs in the group but at least they need to prepare more than simple BO3.

And if the player is really consistent, they should not be going down to Up and Down anyway.

Yaotzin

South Africa4280 Posts

April 25 2011 18:34 GMT

Well it's not really bo1 since you're not out after one loss. What else could they do? Same but with bo3 for every matchup? That would be a hell of a lot of games...

ppshchik

United States862 Posts

April 25 2011 18:36 GMT

On April 26 2011 03:33 MK4512 wrote:
Group stages like the ones used in Code S are actually then a Bo3 format because it allows players to play against everyone in the group and not just the favourite, and getting crushed, where there might be two lesser players in a different Bo3. I personally think it's a great system, and allows me to see two of my favourite players vs eachother, without a 100% chance of either of them being knocked to the up and downs.

It's not a Bo1 though, theres a HUGE difference between the two.

That's a good argument actually imagining bumping into MC in a elimination bracket. I still think it's unfair to have BO1's though a bo3 in groupstages will be nice despite being too long. A winner's / loser's bracket might be nice in GSL

godemperor

Belgium2043 Posts

April 25 2011 18:37 GMT

Its not really bo1, you are essentially playing a bo3 with two/three other opponents, i have no complaints. Only reason we see "upsets" are because there are soo many good players in Code S now, that it is almost impossible to name a favorite.
MC and MKP didn't not lose because the group format, MC lost due to being overconfident and bad BO, MKP just did got out played.

Marl

United States692 Posts

April 25 2011 18:39 GMT

#10

Group Stages are awesome, makes the tournament a lot more interesting to watch than just bo3 after bo3 after bo3. The format of GSL though IMO isn't the best. I'd prefer them using the MSL ro32 group format. What's wrong with having pros required to learn to be able to prepare to face against three other people in one day instead of just a normal bo3? I think group stages overall will separate the true S classers from the "s" classers, because it proves that they can adapt to more diverse tournament formats.

Tictock

United States6052 Posts

April 25 2011 18:43 GMT

#11

I kinda like it, it helps make Code S feel like it's the best of the best though I can understand why some people don't like it. The thing is in a Bo3 you could get matched with some extremely good opponent or maybe your worst MU, though at the same time you have the advantage of at least getting to see what your opponent does in Game 1 then react a little more in Game 2.

The Group format is actually exactly like Bo3's( you need to win twice to advance, and loose twice to get knocked out) though, just against different opponents. Obviously that means you cannot simply go, "ok wrong build to use against this guy, I'll switch it up for Game 2" while at the same time you might need to prepare against multiple races. Also don't forget, Gom lets the players choose their own groups based on performance in the last GSL, which is a nice little dramatic twist imo.

Pro's and cons to both really, so it's kinda nice we get to see both formats in action.

MechKing

United States3004 Posts

April 25 2011 18:44 GMT

#12

I like them because players can't just prepare a week an advance for one opponent. They will have to be good overall, to beat multiple opponents that play different races and styles.

densha

United States797 Posts

April 25 2011 18:45 GMT

#13

It's not even BO1 since one loss doesn't mean you get eliminated. I really like the group stages because it leads to more variety and drama. When it was first introduced most of us noticed a huge jump in the quality of games, too, as most players don't seem to want to "throw away" a match with risky cheese plays.

It's an exciting format that leads to higher quality matches overall - what more could you ask for?

Node

United States2159 Posts

April 25 2011 18:51 GMT

#14

I definitely prefer the group stage format to the previous one. It allows us to see more players play games against more people, showing us how they stack up against different races and styles. While, yes, it does suck to get cheesed by a player you're only going to play once, I still think we learn more about the "whole package" of a player. Remember in season two when BoxeR had to play like 3-4 TvTs in a row? The group stage reduces the number of situations like that.

Zerum

Sweden348 Posts

April 25 2011 18:53 GMT

#15

yeah as some poeple have alredy said it's not a bo1 as you have to lose two games to be out witch makes it a bo3 you just have to play difrent players in the games. As group maches I think its fair and somthing that have ben done for a really long time.

taintmachine

United States431 Posts

April 25 2011 18:55 GMT

#16

i think the current format is fine. we don't see so many shut-outs like we did at the start of GSL.

Baarn

United States2702 Posts

April 25 2011 18:56 GMT

#17

On April 26 2011 03:27 ppshchik wrote:
Do you think it's fair at all? The reason the Finals / RO4 / RO8 matchups are upgraded to Bo5 / 7 is because the qualified players are more skilled to to require more games to distinguish their skill levels.

Code S is a pretty high skill leveled tournament and I don't think it's fair to have BO1 at all given the player's skill level.

I find it ironic that there are Bo3's in Code A and Up and Down whilst Code S have to duke it out in a BO1.

What are your opinion towards it? I was kind of surprised that people are complaining over Dreamhack' Bo1 with ActionJesus 6 pooling out of his group while not complaining about a much higher calibre tournament (Code S) having BO1's

I don't believe you understand how code s works based on your OP. Maybe this will help.

Group X

* Player A
* Player B
* Player C
* Player D

Game 1 - Player A vs. Player B
Game 2 - Player C vs. Player D

After this first day of play, the second day will take place in this format:

Game 1 - Winner of Game 1 vs. Loser of Game 2
Game 2 - Winner of Game 2 vs. Loser of Game 1

If after those two days of gaming there are two players who have won both of their games (i.e Player A has 6 points, Player B has 6 points, Player C has 0 points, Player D has 0 points) then they automatically go through to the round of 16, but they still have to play each other to determine their rank in the top 16.

Roxy

Canada753 Posts

April 25 2011 18:57 GMT

#18

i really think there should be a losers braket typed thing to account for the upsets

for example, the bottom 16 of code s can have a round of 16 type tournament - best of 3

the top 8 of the bottom 16 code s can play the top 8 in code A and then they can have a shot at the title if they beat the entire losers bracket

dogmeatstew

Canada574 Posts

April 25 2011 18:58 GMT

#19

I don't think its that terrible of a format...

My main complain is that because of this format we see very little of players who don't make it out of the group stages. If a player goes 0-2 in their group and then when the up/down matches come they easily stay in code S with a 2-0 against their first opponent then I only get to watch them play 4 games every two months.

While this is more an issue of there not being enough korean tournaments that I can watch in english it's still lame for the players who do go through this kind of thing and never get to show their stuff. (One person that comes to mind is Inca I guess...). This is getting better with more korean players in foreign tournaments but it seems like some teams don't participate in those and that makes me sad.

hugman

Sweden4644 Posts

April 25 2011 18:59 GMT

#20

I think the upset potential is too big. I'm okay with upsets, but the upsets we've seen haven't felt that deserved or genuine.

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