Your opinions about the BO1 format in GSL Code S

On April 26 2011 03:33 MK4512 wrote:
Group stages like the ones used in Code S are actually then a Bo3 format because it allows players to play against everyone in the group and not just the favourite, and getting crushed, where there might be two lesser players in a different Bo3. I personally think it's a great system, and allows me to see two of my favourite players vs eachother, without a 100% chance of either of them being knocked to the up and downs.

It's not a Bo1 though, theres a HUGE difference between the two.

On April 26 2011 03:27 ppshchik wrote:
Do you think it's fair at all? The reason the Finals / RO4 / RO8 matchups are upgraded to Bo5 / 7 is because the qualified players are more skilled to to require more games to distinguish their skill levels.

Code S is a pretty high skill leveled tournament and I don't think it's fair to have BO1 at all given the player's skill level.

I find it ironic that there are Bo3's in Code A and Up and Down whilst Code S have to duke it out in a BO1.

What are your opinion towards it? I was kind of surprised that people are complaining over Dreamhack' Bo1 with ActionJesus 6 pooling out of his group while not complaining about a much higher calibre tournament (Code S) having BO1's

On April 26 2011 03:31 Azzur wrote:
The "bo1" group format is used in the OSL and MSL and no one complains about it. But regardless, the group stages is effectively a bo3 but with the possibility of a player playing 3 different opponents. A bo1 implies that 1 loss would lead to elimination, which is not the case.

On April 26 2011 03:33 MK4512 wrote:
Group stages like the ones used in Code S are actually then a Bo3 format because it allows players to play against everyone in the group and not just the favourite, and getting crushed, where there might be two lesser players in a different Bo3. I personally think it's a great system, and allows me to see two of my favourite players vs eachother, without a 100% chance of either of them being knocked to the up and downs.

It's not a Bo1 though, theres a HUGE difference between the two.

On April 26 2011 03:56 Baarn wrote:


I don't believe you understand how code s works based on your OP. Maybe this will help.

Group X

* Player A
* Player B
* Player C
* Player D

Game 1 - Player A vs. Player B
Game 2 - Player C vs. Player D

After this first day of play, the second day will take place in this format:

Game 1 - Winner of Game 1 vs. Loser of Game 2
Game 2 - Winner of Game 2 vs. Loser of Game 1

If after those two days of gaming there are two players who have won both of their games (i.e Player A has 6 points, Player B has 6 points, Player C has 0 points, Player D has 0 points) then they automatically go through to the round of 16, but they still have to play each other to determine their rank in the top 16.

On April 26 2011 03:58 dogmeatstew wrote:
I don't think its that terrible of a format...

My main complain is that because of this format we see very little of players who don't make it out of the group stages. If a player goes 0-2 in their group and then when the up/down matches come they easily stay in code S with a 2-0 against their first opponent then I only get to watch them play 4 games every two months.

While this is more an issue of there not being enough korean tournaments that I can watch in english it's still lame for the players who do go through this kind of thing and never get to show their stuff. (One person that comes to mind is Inca I guess...). This is getting better with more korean players in foreign tournaments but it seems like some teams don't participate in those and that makes me sad.

On April 26 2011 04:09 Newguy wrote:
The system is bad because lesser players often take a game off of a more skilled player, which results in one of the higher skilled players in the group going to up and down more often than should happen.

On April 26 2011 04:14 Bobster wrote:
If you lose 2 games in a row, you're out. If you win 2 out of 3 games, you advance.

Which system am I talking about?


+ Show Spoiler +

On April 26 2011 06:05 Herculix wrote:
first of all, to the people saying it's not single matches, it is single matches. you play 1 match against 2 people. so it's 2 singles, not a bo3. you have to prepare for 3 people instead of 1, potentially all races instead of 1, 3 different styles instead of 1. it is MUCH more random that way because the chances of you being able to prepare properly are low, so you don't know what to expect, and you have to have a vague practice set up where you prepare for a lot of situations that you know inevitably won't happen.

it's really stupid to ever have singles matches in single elimination starcraft 2 tournaments. if they had a losers bracket i wouldn't care, up and down matches is not really a loser's bracket since you don't end up staying in the tournament, you just get to play in the next one if you win.

i love the GSL but if there was anything i hated about it it's the opening rounds of it.

On April 26 2011 06:14 Geovu wrote:
People don't seem to realize that the reason there are a lot of upsets is that because even the top class of the players' skill to be honest are not as far out from the median of Code S. Every single one of the players in Code S deserves to be in Code S, even people that no one talks about like Kyrix or SC. If they are not actually deserving, then they WILL drop out.

The whole purpose of the Code S system is to allow new people to gradually work themselves up to it if they are up to the challenge, however no one in Code S is automatically knocked out if they lose the group stages.

Take Ro32 TSL for example. Idra got knocked down first round, and upsets happen. That doesn't mean the balance of the whole universe has been shaken.

On April 26 2011 06:42 GhostFall wrote:
its fine, much ado about nothing.

The reason you see so many upsets is due to the newness of the game, not because of the format.

there would be just as many upsets regardless of format because of this.

also, what is this scrub attitude of a player not deserving to get out of their group. seriously, such a stupid stupid attitude. The group stage is seeded, with players allowed to choose their opponents. the better players have the advantage. If an upset happens, it is entirely their fault. They had the advantage, and still lost 2 games because of it.

On April 26 2011 07:11 Jerubaal wrote:
I really don't like that a player can be eliminated from a 4 man group while only losing to one player.

We've seen this at least twice with Jinro and MC.

On April 26 2011 07:19 omegan wrote:


At least they had chances against 2 other players while in the "real" BO3 they only have chances against one player. I think this thread is the result of Jinro loosing to Nestea.

On April 26 2011 07:50 Derez wrote:
To be honest, most of the 'upsets' we have seen were completely deserved, and these players playing more games on those days wouldn't have changed a thing.

- MVP got booted out of code S by July, who absolutely dominated him at that point. MVP wasn't ready for it, and he paid the price.
- MC got too cocky and didn't actually prepare for very basic terran timings. Again, outplayed by polt, who is a terribly mediocre terran. More games wouldn't have changed a thing.
- Jinro has been in a slump for a while, got a win over san with a cutesy tactic, but then wasn't ready to face nestea. Got outplayed as a result.

You need to have a high turnover rate in players this early in a game, for the simple reason that half of code S are players that shouldn't be in there. Ofc this is going to mean that 'favorites' will be at risk of dropping out, or actually dropping out to code A, but if you're good enough you're gonna make it back into code S.

The only alternative is a system like NASL, where what, 8 players get dropped end of season? Combine that with the simple fact that half of the NASL doesn't represent the top, and we'll be stuck with a 2 tiered league in a while, with a huge skill difference between the people that deserve to be there and the rest that's only there because not enough people drop per season.

On April 26 2011 07:57 zyzq wrote:


MC got greedy, yes. Jinro was outplayed, yes. But MVP got all-ined by Julyzerg, twice. I don't know how you consider that "dominated".

In reply to the topic, I don't think BO1's are a good idea right now, especially when SC2 is in such a volatile state, where cheeses and all-ins are so rewarding, more so than in BW. Maybe in a year when the game becomes more stable it would be more exciting, but now, it's just too random.

On April 26 2011 07:08 Wazabo wrote:


In a game where the best players have around 70% win ratios(talking about both BW and SC2) the format does make a lot of difference, cause if the 3 games that you lose out of 10 are these BO1 you're out.

While Flash quality player can drop out of the tournament with this BO1 system, it will _never_ happen with the NASL group stage.

It's the same with football(soccer) leagues in Europe, there are teams that never dropped into the second divisions over 100+ years. Cause the leagues are so long that the top teams will always prevail. Infact it's an upset when Barcelona or Real Madrid don't win the championship, not when they fall to the second division, cause even if they have a bad season getting a 60% win ratio instead of 70%, guess what, it's still better than most of the other teams. If they used this BO1 crap they would fail aswell soon or later, cause it's really random and losing 2 games in a row it's just normal even for the best player ever.

On April 26 2011 03:31 Azzur wrote:
The "bo1" group format is used in the OSL and MSL and no one complains about it. But regardless, the group stages is effectively a bo3 but with the possibility of a player playing 3 different opponents. A bo1 implies that 1 loss would lead to elimination, which is not the case.