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j3i
United States357 Posts
On April 26 2011 01:46 Jackal-lber8046 wrote: What? He was banned for saying that girls are just as good as guys and it's a cultural standard that is at the root of separate leagues? Coed was cool I thought. :< I'm guessing this is an argument that has a history on this forum. Otherwise, I don't see why he would be banned. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On April 26 2011 01:09 Geiko wrote: Aw come on, I never said anything like that. You should check out this short paper on the subject : http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n11/mente/eisntein/cerebro-homens.html. Men and Women's brains don't work alike and aren't good at the same things in a general sense. That's ALL I'm saying. A few things to note about my post : -The word "general" is important : some women are way better then most men at science and geometric abstraction, but figures show that overall, men seem to be doing better in these domains. -Women have relational capacities that are in average better than men's and that would maybe make them better CEOs than men for example, I don't see how you could have concluded the exact contrary from my post. -Whether or not this is from education or genes is still a question -Whether or not this has anything to do with how well you are able to play SC2 is still a question. I'm just saying that blindly saying that men and women have the same mental capacities is plain wrong. (and once again, that is NOT implying that one is superior over the other) Also interesting would be how much a bad sense for spatial geometry would actually mean for winning in games. As an interesting anecdote, I never knew anyone that was not overwhelmed playing for the first time a map like Aerowalk or DM4 in Quakeworld. Those are maps with at least three vertically stacked layers and teleporters and stairways connecting the hallways and rooms. Everything feels like a labyrinth and the teleporter connections feel random the first time running around on the map. These are those kind of maps that produce 40:0 scores in 10 minutes and most of the time you did not even see your death coming because the score is mostly built through simple spam rockets and grenades. After playing the maps for years, I am convinced the part of your IQ that has to do with spatial geometry test results has no effect on the outcome of duels between players. Instead, for every given situation, you will know every possible move by heart. Your accuracy, item timings and your ability to guess your opponents intentions will be what determines the winner of the duels. Having ice flowing in your veins at LAN tournaments is also a good skill to have.  The point I wanted to make is that players put in enormous amounts of time into a game, which will mean that the results of tests that look at the general populace have less or no bearing on what exactly happens inside the SC2 matches between two players that have played RTS games for countless hours every day over the years. | ||
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parn
France296 Posts
On April 26 2011 01:59 Dystisis wrote: Okay, then go complain to big leagues about how they are not doing enough to bring in female gamers and female interest in general. You are attacking the opposite of what you should attack, if you truly want a community where males and females are given equal opportunity. To me, all the warnings and bans given in this thread are totally justified, most of what is said in those comments is some kind of hysterical "male=female" propaganda, and that's not the topic, at all. Good job TL admins, for the moderation and the event cover. | ||
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
My GF plays SC2, and she plays in the Female cups because they are fun and much much less stressful. Don't forget that women aren't naturally as competitive as men, granted some definitely are (and are probably MORE competitive) but many aren't. I know my GF gets really frustrated playing sometimes, and having a lower stress level for girls really helps them enjoy playing. Again, this isn't a stereotype, or some sweeping generalization, but just my observations from first hand encounters and experience. | ||
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FliedLice
Germany7494 Posts
On April 26 2011 01:46 Jackal-lber8046 wrote: What? He was banned for saying that girls are just as good as guys and it's a cultural standard that is at the root of separate leagues? Coed was cool I thought. :< he got banned for starting a stupid argument that derailed 98349824threads already how many girls did participate in that tournament btw? | ||
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Kisra
United Kingdom466 Posts
I can only see it as a good thing. Call it a stepping stone - people who do well in these female tournaments might feel more confident going into MLG and the like. In the end, as a spectator, I just enjoy seeing more and more people playing. More tournaments, more great players, and more striving for greatness. Thank you for the interview and congrats to flo. To dig into the point a little more: Attending an MLG or another event (especially LAN or any high profile tournament) could be very intimidating. It is for most gamers, and probably doubly so for a female gamer. Ignoring any psychological testing if men or women are better predisposed to playing SC2, there is a sociological factor and this is also important. Just because there shouldn't be one doesn't mean there isn't. Creating a tournament for female gamers gives them a chance to prove themselves as players. It opens up the scene a little more for anyone who might be nervous. Who knows, five years down the line this might not be necessary, but eSports is very male-dominated right now. Without avenues such as this female SC2 players might not even consider attending major LANs - lack of tournament experience or fear of sticking out in a crowd being major driving forces. In the end, it brings more people into the game we all love. There is no sexism here - there would be if females weren't allowed to compete at other tournaments, and there's no long-term segregation here. Also, to quote something that gets stated on State of the Game often whenever people put on serious faces about eSports: In the end, have fun. It's what we're here for. This isn't the same as normal sports, this is something we are shaping. I'd hate it to be an environment where every little thing is scrutinized and asked if its 'professional' for some misguided aim at legitimacy. Instead I want it to be an environment where someone using the alias 'flo' won a tournament, and that's awesome :D | ||
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flanksteak
Canada246 Posts
On April 26 2011 00:19 Geiko wrote: So you are not using your brain when you play SC2 ? Just your arms and eyes ? There have been some interesting studies that have proven that females have a harder time with spaciality than males (I don't know if that word exists in english, I mean just representing things in a 3D perspective in your mind). There are plenty of things that the female and male minds process differently. That is pretty much a fact... the real question is whether this is induced by education and society or if we are born this way. And also whether or not these differences have a baring on playing RTS games. Female and male brains do work differently; but I think I'm just trying to appeal to common sense. For something like Starcraft 2, I think just having the motor functions necessary for basic hand eye coordination should provide a level enough playing field, enough such that it shouldn't necessitate a different league (due to gender). Again, I've never seriously studied neurosciences, so I may be speaking from a position of ignorance. To be honest, I actually can't prove it definitively one way or the other. But in an Sc2 context, I feel like the variances in mental ability, in whatever capacity, between genders is no different that the variances we'd see in ability within the same gender. Or at least I want to say, the advantages/disadvantages between either gender (in an SC2 context) are minor enough that practice becomes a far more prominent factor in playing the game well, rather than any innate mental/physical ability. But I'm all for a female league if it generates more interest  | ||
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dmillz
Canada270 Posts
Congrats flo!!! Hopefully we will see you winning more tournaments in the future :D. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On April 26 2011 02:14 FliedLice wrote: he got banned for starting a stupid argument that derailed 98349824threads already how many girls did participate in that tournament btw? 25 players showed up. | ||
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trancey
United States430 Posts
I'm sure some people have heard of her, but afaik, she's the only known female in Grand Master's league on NA servers. | ||
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EZPikachu
United States51 Posts
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LanTAs
United States1091 Posts
On April 25 2011 20:09 NeonFox wrote: That keyboard looks like a dell to me, if so, is there a way to know wich one it is, because I've been trying to find a dell keyboard i tried and loved some time ago. Sorry bout the offtopic and of course congrats to her! you can grab one off of Amazon or something i guess, but most online sites sell them for about $25, 26 bucks. Great keyboard BTW Gratz to flo =) | ||
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Mephiztopheles1
1124 Posts
 But then again, mine is not meant to play starcraft2 :D Thanks for the interview and don't worry too much EZPikachu, TL's SC2 community is full of kids with anger issues  Congratulations to flo! | ||
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RajaF
Canada530 Posts
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On April 25 2011 20:27 Ipp wrote: Hate to burst your bubble but male and female brain structure is vastly different in all species. Does it provide an edge? Who knows the studies haven't been done. However, I don't believe there is a prize pool for the tournament so no one is "missing out" on anything -- It's just an excuse for female gamers to get together and play, I don't see why this would upset anyone. That being said -- nice interview, congrats to flo~ I'm fairly sure women have higher stress tolerance (read it somewhere, so can't pull the quote up, so take it for what it is), which probably is a pretty huge help. I guess men are generally more competetive though, so I guess girls are more likely to go to world of warcraft or something T_T I still keep my dream of for once finding a gf who enjoys gaming though ^^ | ||
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SolidusR
United States217 Posts
Congrats on winning your tournament Flo, and I really hope that the ladies continue to join us boys in enjoying the amazing game that is SC2. It's so good for esports, and I'm glad to see more and more women deciding to do whatever they want to do regardless of social stigma, even if it is just video gaming | ||
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dogmeatstew
Canada574 Posts
The feminists hate these tournaments because it implies that women are "lesser" and need a special tournament to make it anywhere in the sport. The chauvinists hate these tournaments because she gets attention for just being a girl when objectively her accomplishment isn't that impressive. I don't really care so long as I have entertaining starcraft to watch. + Show Spoiler + On the topic on men vs women in gaming/sports whatever, in this case its a simple numbers issue, if 1 in 100000 people of a given gender have what it takes to be awesome at starcraft but we only have 10000 female players then the math would indicate that there's a pretty low chance of one of them being the next Flash. For all we know my little sister is going to start playing this game next week and take down the NASL next year sometime but as she has no interest in playing sc2 I guess we'll never know. Unrelated note, I dislike the term "gender equality", obviously Male == Female isn't true, we're different genders so I don't see why we should expect either gender to have the exact same capabilities at the exact same things. You don't expect forks to be good for eating soup but it doesn't make it a lesser utensil, just a different one. | ||
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wolfe
United States761 Posts
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Attica
United States277 Posts
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Longshank
1648 Posts
I also feel like an insta-ban on anyone discussing females/gaming/tournaments would be in order, wether you're for or against it. Having it in every single female gaming topic is getting old as fuck. | ||
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