EPTeven if they ban me, balance discussions don't belong to this thread.
User was temp banned for this post.
Heart of the Swarm to be Unveiled Next Month - Page 35
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voltaic
1071 Posts
even if they ban me, balance discussions don't belong to this thread. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Jurassic
Hungary79 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:31 arew wrote: True  Lurkers and defilers would make the game more skilled than lucky-wised though. In case, a Reaver instead of Colossi and medics instead of medivacs would be even better, IMO.Still, lets wait and see!  Then why not just go back and play BW instead? I hope Blizzard will create epic new units instead of bringing back old ones. | ||
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ELA
Denmark4608 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:23 Beef Noodles wrote: Spoken like someone who missed out on the awesomeness that was the defiler... I've played 6 RTS's for about 12 years now, and no unit even comes close to the defiler in terms of fun, adding depth to the game, spectator excitement, and overall badass-ness It was also the most whined about unit in BW, ever.. People to this day, still make threads about how imbalanced they are, haha - Not saying that is a bad thing I would personally love to see the defiler back in the game.. However, PlagUUU is sort of out of the question with Fungal Growth, as well as Dark Swarm would have some really imbalanced uses coupled with Fungal.. Hmm, if the Defiler were to make a comeback, it would have to be with a new set of abilities I think | ||
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Wrath 2.1
Germany880 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:13 arew wrote: Then remove Infestors and banelings though? >.< If not, don't you think it would be too much? I think we're having a deal. | ||
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Keitzer
United States2509 Posts
On April 22 2011 11:12 peekn wrote: So if they're announcing HotS next month, will there be anything to announce at BlizzCon? >.> Hopefully there will be something new :D Well, theyve already announced HotS as well as LotV, my guess (and hope since I'm going, wootwoot) is they show some Titan footage / announce their new game... | ||
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arew
Lithuania1861 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:37 Jurassic wrote: Then why not just go back and play BW instead? I hope Blizzard will create epic new units instead of bringing back old ones. I'm just giving an example, new units wouldn't be bad either, but well, tbh, I do not even want any units, or any unit changes. Just leave the game as how it is... I guess I'm not the only one who thinks like that. | ||
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Zerksys
United States569 Posts
On May 25 2011 03:43 Dommk wrote: That is what the unit *does*, now how about where it fits? The alpha version of the Lurker had 15dmg + 15dmg to armored, how does that work with Marines now having 55HP (as opposed to BW 40hp and 20dmg lurkers)? What about medics no longer being a ground unit? How about the new smart AI tanks with 13 range (as opposed to 12 in Broodwar)? Or Marauders? How would Banshees now play into all this? The unit in theory does what certain long range units do, but in practice it is much worse. You have no dark swarm to cover your lurkers, Colossus match Lurker range. Terrans use scans to get rid of Tumors these days, they would hardly be reeling if they had to use it on Lurkers. Then you add in the fact that a Raven is significantly easier to get for a Terran than a Science Vessel and shares the same tech tree as Banshees and Medivacs which both do well against Lurkers. You can't just assume it would work out the way you envision it. The reason it was removed because people weren't using the Lurker, it was being overshadowed by Banelings and Roaches. Have you ever noticed that it was removed in the alpha? What are the reasons that the lurker was removed in the alpha. Surely blizzard could have tinkered around with the values a bit to make the lurker to try to fit. Maybe instead of 15+15 how about 20+10 or 25+5. The reason they removed it was because they couldn't make it fit in with the lore. It's not because it was being overshadowed by banelings and roaches. Zerg are missing a unit which does decent splash to armored units. This was where (i think) the lurker was supposed to fit in, but due to hydras being tier 2, blizzard couldn't figure out how to make this fit into the lore of the lurker coming from the hydra. They tried to up the range to 9 to try to mediate this, but in the end they just scrapped it because the lurker is a lair tech unit at heart and not a hive tech one as they had it in the alpha. As for your specific examples 1. Medics not being a ground unit - what does this have to do with the lurker 2. Marauders - bonus damage to armored? Also it's not like you're ever going to go pure lurker. Lurker ling would completely destroy marauders. Add in a couple of banelings and you got yourself a siege on a terran. 3. Scans - I don't get what your problem is here. Your argument kind of makes an assumption that when you scan a lurker and move forward to attack it, the zerg player will just keep his lurkers burrowed there and not unburrow and move them. Newsflash: lurkers are not like creep tumors. They can move. That's the whole point of lurkers. You scan them, they unburrow and move back to further stall your push. 4. Banshees - banshee production means that you've dedicated a starport to producing banshees. Meaning less medivacs (going back to point 1). Plop down a spire. Get 3 mutas. Also I could even envision some spore crawlers making their way up to a siege line. Here are some of my examples of why the lurker would be good. 1. Excellent damage output due to the fact that the lurker splash would be huge. Running a marine ball into 8 lurkers with 15 damage each for their splash is suicide. 2. Excellent army compositions - just imagine a lurker contain with lings and banelings. Throw in 2 infestors and you've got yourself an almost unbreakable contain. 3. Unit that forces selective use of force fields. In a mid game push thus far by protoss, there is not really any situation where using force fields can hurt you. That's why you see tosses at all levels just spam force fields without retribution. A unit like the lurker could make those force fields deadly if you find yourself in a lurker trap. 4. Siege potential - Zergs would be able to effectively contain terran and protoss players to make them push out slowly instead of the current A move to victory. 5. More opportunities for traps - burrowed banelings are good, but the problem is that if a scan goes off the banelings are dead. With lurkers there's a chance to get away. 6. (most important) A potential for aggressive play from the zerg. The zerg metagame won't just be defend harass and drone up any more. It can be, I'm going to make an effective timing push with lurkers before the terran has siege researched. Cons: (what I feel) 1. Lurkers may overshadow banelings a bit - I still think banelings will see use in tvz and sometimes in zvp, but with lurkers the only thing that banelings will be used over lurkers for is going to be marines. 2. May overlap with the infestor - the infestor was recently buffed to do bonus damage to armored. The infestor's ability to do such damage would overlap with the lurker in the midgame and I feel like the infestor will see a lot less use because the lurker will do exactly what the infestor does, but with more range. 3. Could make zvz a complete shit fest of a matchup. Currently zvz is ling baneling into roach, hydra/infestor. I could see zvz turning into a complete rock paper scissors match up. Roaches are useless vs. lurkers which then forces the mutas which then forces infestors etc... 4. Could make for quite an OP zerg. The zerg metagame is all about getting the most drones possible early on. With the advent of a siege capable zerg army, it's a lot easier to know exactly when the push is going to hit your base because the protoss and terran player will have to slow push across the map. By the time they get to a place where they can actually do damage, the zerg player has already made more than enough units. Edit: this post is addressing a lair level lurker, not a hive one. | ||
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Crazyeyes
Canada1342 Posts
I still just dont really like the idea of lurker in SC2... but in the end I guess it's up to Blizzard. Whatever happens, I just hope it turns out nicely. And more importantly, I hope I find out soon. :D | ||
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stormchaser
Canada1009 Posts
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
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DARKHYDRA
United States303 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:37 Jurassic wrote: Then why not just go back and play BW instead? I hope Blizzard will create epic new units instead of bringing back old ones. Why even bother with any SC1 units, just redo the whole thing and now you don't even have to call it starcraft anymore. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:37 Jurassic wrote: Then why not just go back and play BW instead? I hope Blizzard will create epic new units instead of bringing back old ones. People lack faith into blizzard making good new units. :d I mean, when you see Colossus or roaches, i can"'t disagree. :< | ||
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SxYSpAz
United States1451 Posts
if HoTS has no units for anyone but zerg.... idk how that will work, they do have the least amount of units, but terran already has a ton and when/if zerg gets a bunch of new units with this expansion, i predict me being a lil bitchy for a few weeks. | ||
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stormchaser
Canada1009 Posts
On May 25 2011 06:54 QTIP. wrote: Check OP again.is this ever going to happen? I haven't seen anything regarding this yet... outside of TL | ||
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Crazyeyes
Canada1342 Posts
On May 25 2011 06:53 stormchaser wrote: Does anyone here know the exact date/time of the preview? I would like to add it to the OP but can't seem to find it. I think the dates were 21-23? or 23-25? I'm 95% sure that the 23rd is related somehow. Either way, I'm thinking we'll get our info in like a week when everyones allowed to write. | ||
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resilve
United Kingdom678 Posts
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
On May 25 2011 05:11 arew wrote: I'm just giving an example, new units wouldn't be bad either, but well, tbh, I do not even want any units, or any unit changes. Just leave the game as how it is... Blizzard has a history of creating richer, deeper experiences with their expansions. Why would you want to deprive yourself of that potential? Absurd. | ||
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Darcey
Sweden35 Posts
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OnFire
324 Posts
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