|
On April 21 2011 03:37 ru.meta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 03:25 NrG.NeverExpo wrote:
I guess something like this would be ok for practice games, although I would kind of look down upon some one using the program during games that mattered. Kinda seems like a crutch. yea, I'm concerned about this right now. Of course I can add this to "terms of use" but it will not stop "bad guys" of course  Hmm.. one idea comes to me: what if appliation will press Enter and type I use probe to training not for cheat (probably something shorter) or something like this. So opponent and observers of match will know about it.
That's doable.
On April 21 2011 03:45 -miDnight- wrote:
there is a thing I think will be great adding to this tool.
worker production/larva notification. If the program will beez for every 12 sec to remind you make worker/larva inject. It will help a lot to me and other player want to learn macro.
Do you think there would be interest in a program like this if I adjusted the one I have (and added some chat message, maybe) to incorporate workers too? At the moment it supports inject/mule/chronoboost.
The only problem with entering a chat string though, is that that would probably break the EULA, since in that way the program would actually perform keypresses - even if be it for chatting, I think it is not really "fair".
|
Russian Federation88 Posts
On April 21 2011 03:45 -miDnight- wrote:
there is a thing I think will be great adding to this tool.
worker production/larva notification. If the program will beez for every 12 sec to remind you make worker/larva inject. It will help a lot to me and other player want to learn macro.
OK, I'll add new pool for this
|
Russian Federation88 Posts
On April 21 2011 03:53 Arn wrote:
The only problem with entering a chat string though, is that that would probably break the EULA, since in that way the program would actually perform keypresses - even if be it for chatting, I think it is not really "fair".
Yep, it's really a 'bot'. I'm for keep this application strictly in EULA. So maybe player should press enter and type something in-game? Application will require to do it in random moment between 1 and 3 minutes of the game and if you're not responding - just stops.
|
I feel that this likely will be interpreted by Blizz as in violation of EULA, specifically the following items:
# Use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game experience, including without limitation, mods that violate the terms of this License Agreement or the Terms of Use;
While this isn't specifically a cheat or a bot, it does 'modify the game experience' by providing a sound notification when certain in-game conditions are met. I strongly feel that Blizz will consider this to be in violation here, especially when you consider that patch 1.3 included an automated notification for chronoboost/injects etc. The issue is that Blizz clearly felt that adding these notifications would be of benefit to some players, so they modified the game client. This program notifies users above and beyond what the game client does, and although it does not alter the client (which is clearly against EULA) it does "modify the game experience" in a way that is directly analogous to a prior modification by Blizz which DID modify the game experience.
# Use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, "mines", or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information; provided, however, that Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces;
Keyboard buffers are not RAM per se, so this program will not be accessing SC2 ramspace, but again, this is directly analogous to a program that would intercept the data in the SC2 ramspace, the only difference is that it accesses the data that will enter SC2 memory before it actually enters into SC2 memory.
Consider a hypothetical program that intercepted data from your network card, (i.e. minimap information for example of where your opponent is/what he is doing), and then copied it, sending it on to SC2 memory, but also feeding it into a 3rd party program that provided an audio notification of where your opponent spawned, what he was producing, etc. This is exactly the same procedure that this program uses, but is VERY clearly in violation.
The only way IMO to implement this type of software/idea without violating EULA would be to create a system of custom maps that do the same thing for you. -- the fact that this can be used in ladder games makes me really nervous.
|
On April 21 2011 00:08 brystmar wrote:
Interesting. Not a fan of forcing superfluous keypresses just to indicate when you're looking at X part of the screen, but I'll give it a shot anyway.
This is my thought exactly. I may just use shift, but I don't really look forward to the idea of building in an extra and unnecessary habit so I'm trying to come up with an button that would be beneficial for me to use more ingame that won't interfere with what I'm doing at the moment to notify the script that I'm doing what I should be. Long sentence.
|
On April 21 2011 03:53 Arn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 03:37 ru.meta wrote:On April 21 2011 03:25 NrG.NeverExpo wrote:
I guess something like this would be ok for practice games, although I would kind of look down upon some one using the program during games that mattered. Kinda seems like a crutch. yea, I'm concerned about this right now. Of course I can add this to "terms of use" but it will not stop "bad guys" of course Hmm.. one idea comes to me: what if appliation will press Enter and type I use probe to training not for cheat (probably something shorter) or something like this. So opponent and observers of match will know about it. That's doable. Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 03:45 -miDnight- wrote:
there is a thing I think will be great adding to this tool.
worker production/larva notification. If the program will beez for every 12 sec to remind you make worker/larva inject. It will help a lot to me and other player want to learn macro. Do you think there would be interest in a program like this if I adjusted the one I have (and added some chat message, maybe) to incorporate workers too? At the moment it supports inject/mule/chronoboost. The only problem with entering a chat string though, is that that would probably break the EULA, since in that way the program would actually perform keypresses - even if be it for chatting, I think it is not really "fair".
I have been looking every where to find program to help remind me scv production.
And it's very simple, just press a key and every 12 sec or 25 ingame time the program will make some noise reminder.
|
Just my opinion, but this seems like a cheat to me. It is altering one player's game to give him an advantage on a game mechanic that the other player doesn't have.
Doesn't seem right...
|
This is just as much of a cheat as my phone is set on an automatic timer every 40 seconds.
Just because something is a program doesn't mean it's a cheat/against the EULA. Blizzard's fine with having a timer as much as it's fine for you to have Notepad open while playing. "Altering the
game experience" is a generic term used to allow Blizzard to include a wide variety of "loop-holes", but they aren't naive enough to ban someone for this.
Also, reading keypresses from your own computer is completely legal >.< It would be absolutely ridiculous to say that it isn't. You can only access the information you physically put in to the game; accessing data from a network card is not similar to it at all.
|
Russian Federation88 Posts
On April 21 2011 05:15 caradoc wrote:I feel that this likely will be interpreted by Blizz as in violation of EULA, specifically the following items: Show nested quote +# Use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game experience, including without limitation, mods that violate the terms of this License Agreement or the Terms of Use; This program notifies users above and beyond what the game client does, and although it does not alter the client (which is clearly against EULA) it does "modify the game experience" in a way that is directly analogous to a prior modification by Blizz which DID modify the game experience.
experience of the game and experience that you take while playing the game are not the same thing. Otherwise anything that happens during the game (i.e. doorbell) will violate EULA.
This tool doesn't place any overlay on the game screen, doesn't press any keys for player, and doesn't remove any sounds from game itself.
On April 21 2011 05:15 caradoc wrote:Show nested quote +# Use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, "mines", or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information; provided, however, that Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces; Keyboard buffers are not RAM per se, so this program will not be accessing SC2 ramspace, but again, this is directly analogous to a program that would intercept the data in the SC2 ramspace, the only difference is that it accesses the data that will enter SC2 memory before it actually enters into SC2 memory.
Again RAM of the game and information that at the end will be in the RAM of the game are not equal. Actually - buying a game from Blizzard doesn't make your hardware, OS and all your programs property of Blizzard. Blizzard can make a bounds by EULA but it doesn't allow SC to, for example, read RAM of any program running on my computer or use any root-kit-tricks. Agreement says that the game client can make screenshots and check signatures of running programs. And that's all.
On April 21 2011 05:15 caradoc wrote:
Consider a hypothetical program that intercepted data from your network card, (i.e. minimap information for example of where your opponent is/what he is doing), and then copied it, sending it on to SC2 memory, but also feeding it into a 3rd party program that provided an audio notification of where your opponent spawned, what he was producing, etc. This is exactly the same procedure that this program uses, but is VERY clearly in violation.
No, it's not the same. Your example violates this
F. Host, provide or develop matchmaking services for the Game or intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Blizzard in any way, for any purpose, including without limitation unauthorized play over the internet, network play (except as expressly authorized by Blizzard), or as part of content aggregation networks;
Anyway, if someone is a lawyer or know how exactly interpret EULA of the game - I'll really appreciate one's help because I want to add another features to this application and want to make sure that players still stay in EULA.
Basic idea behind my application - provide a kind of "virtual buddy" that watch your game and give you advices. It's not OK when he plays for you or spy opponents monitor. I don't want this tool to be used to take any advantage in competitive play on ladder or even tournament. If you have an idea how to make sure that it is - please share your thoughts.
|
Russian Federation88 Posts
On April 21 2011 09:06 -miDnight- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 03:53 Arn wrote:On April 21 2011 03:37 ru.meta wrote:On April 21 2011 03:25 NrG.NeverExpo wrote:
I guess something like this would be ok for practice games, although I would kind of look down upon some one using the program during games that mattered. Kinda seems like a crutch. yea, I'm concerned about this right now. Of course I can add this to "terms of use" but it will not stop "bad guys" of course Hmm.. one idea comes to me: what if appliation will press Enter and type I use probe to training not for cheat (probably something shorter) or something like this. So opponent and observers of match will know about it. That's doable. On April 21 2011 03:45 -miDnight- wrote:
there is a thing I think will be great adding to this tool.
worker production/larva notification. If the program will beez for every 12 sec to remind you make worker/larva inject. It will help a lot to me and other player want to learn macro. Do you think there would be interest in a program like this if I adjusted the one I have (and added some chat message, maybe) to incorporate workers too? At the moment it supports inject/mule/chronoboost. The only problem with entering a chat string though, is that that would probably break the EULA, since in that way the program would actually perform keypresses - even if be it for chatting, I think it is not really "fair". I have been looking every where to find program to help remind me scv production. And it's very simple, just press a key and every 12 sec or 25 ingame time the program will make some noise reminder.
Why don't you use "day 9 coacher" or my tool for this?
|
Hi,
For some reason, the program does not change my "recording" button from scroll lock to something else. My pc does not have a scroll lock button.
|
Russian Federation88 Posts
On April 21 2011 11:09 KoArtist wrote:
Hi,
For some reason, the program does not change my "recording" button from scroll lock to something else. My pc does not have a scroll lock button.
I wrote PM to you - lets communicate there.
|
On April 21 2011 11:21 ru.meta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 11:09 KoArtist wrote:
Hi,
For some reason, the program does not change my "recording" button from scroll lock to something else. My pc does not have a scroll lock button. I wrote PM to you - lets communicate there.
I am not very computer savvy but I also don't see a scroll lock button anywhere on my keyboard, unless there is another name for it and I don't know it
edit: I tried changing it to 0 but nothing happens when I press it so idk
|
Posted on your youtube video.
I think it is an unfair advantage. Even if you told people that you were using it, how is that supposed to help them? It just is letting them know that you have an unfair advantage. Room for thought.
|
Russian Federation88 Posts
On April 21 2011 11:46 Guppers wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 11:21 ru.meta wrote:On April 21 2011 11:09 KoArtist wrote:
Hi,
For some reason, the program does not change my "recording" button from scroll lock to something else. My pc does not have a scroll lock button. I wrote PM to you - lets communicate there. I am not very computer savvy but I also don't see a scroll lock button anywhere on my keyboard, unless there is another name for it and I don't know it edit: I tried changing it to 0 but nothing happens when I press it so idk
Usually scroll lock located between pause and print screen.
If your settings are not saving - check that probe is not running. Probe locks the settings (you should see message that settings are read-only on settings page)
|
+ Show Spoiler +On April 21 2011 13:00 ru.meta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 11:46 Guppers wrote:On April 21 2011 11:21 ru.meta wrote:On April 21 2011 11:09 KoArtist wrote:
Hi,
For some reason, the program does not change my "recording" button from scroll lock to something else. My pc does not have a scroll lock button. I wrote PM to you - lets communicate there. I am not very computer savvy but I also don't see a scroll lock button anywhere on my keyboard, unless there is another name for it and I don't know it edit: I tried changing it to 0 but nothing happens when I press it so idk Usually scroll lock located between pause and print screen. If your settings are not saving - check that probe is not running. Probe locks the settings (you should see message that settings are read-only on settings page)
ok, I turned off probe and then resaved my settings then turned it back on and that worked, thank you
edit: im exicited for the potential of this program I hope it works well as my biggest problem is letting macro slip during encounters. thanks for expending the time to do this
|
You might want to suggest people use one of their F keys(or what every they use) that are bound to a screen location for the "look at mini map" as it will actually not be a bad habit in that case you are actually looking at a key point and will get people to move their screen using these buttons, and also for the "looking at resource cost" button for T/P at least bind it to their supply/pylon building worker I use 7 and about every time I have to look at my resources I have to build a supply depot anyway.
Just a thought on how to mitigate bad/useless habits and keystrokes.
|
Russian Federation88 Posts
On April 21 2011 21:05 Nonvidius wrote:
You might want to suggest people use one of their F keys(or what every they use) that are bound to a screen location for the "look at mini map" as it will actually not be a bad habit in that case you are actually looking at a key point and will get people to move their screen using these buttons, and also for the "looking at resource cost" button for T/P at least bind it to their supply/pylon building worker I use 7 and about every time I have to look at my resources I have to build a supply depot anyway.
Just a thought on how to mitigate bad/useless habits and keystrokes.
Yea, great idea. Actually I use ~ as rebind of 0 for my scout probe / observer so pressing ~ for me actually means going to this probe.
It's not so obvious to use normal keys to indicate. I'll add this to "manual"
|
I like the how the site uses Drupal as a web cms. Very well themed as well.
As for the keylogger problem ... uhmn .. i personally would never use this program unless i can take a look at the source code. I don't know how far you want to go with the website ( its professional look makes me think that it might turn into a payed service when the development is finished ), but releasing the source would probably ease the drama around key logging.
|
Russian Federation88 Posts
On April 21 2011 23:40 XiaN wrote:
I like the how the site uses Drupal as a web cms. Very well themed as well.
As for the keylogger problem ... uhmn .. i personally would never use this program unless i can take a look at the source code. I don't know how far you want to go with the website ( its professional look makes me think that it might turn into a payed service when the development is finished ), but releasing the source would probably ease the drama around key logging.
Yes, I think to turn it to opensource one day if there will be some geeks. But not for now. If you concerned about keylogging there are few options:
1. close application before entering valuable data (I tell about it here and there). I see no reason to keep it running.
2. because you ask me for code - probably you understand C# so... Probe is no-obfuscated C# application. You can use reflector to see it inside out.
3. another way - download wireshark to see what does probe send. Hint: you will find HTTP POST requests in JSON format to 74.220.215.217:80 Please remember that Blizzard does not allow analyzing of game protocol (I think that game traffic can be skipped by filters)
And thank you for design feedback! I worked as a Drupal developer a time ago and know some cool stuff
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
