It appears that some unfortunate scheduling problems have occurred in the April 13th NASL match between White-Ra and July. As a result, July has been awarded a 2-0 forfeit victory in their match. NASL explained the decision as follows:
We hope this post will explain our decision to award a forfeit win to July. White-Ra informed us that he would be at the Dreamhack Invitational on Tuesday April 12th, which conflicted with his NASL game vs July. We knew there would be a problem only if he made it to the final, which he did. I asked the Dreamhack organizers if they would keep one computer up for White-Ra to play his match, and they declined, understandably, as they had to pack up their equipment and shut off the internet. We discussed postponing it, but that is something we really can’t do with such an aggressive broadcast schedule.
SjoW had a similar situation to White-Ra as he was also participating in the event. SjoW informed us that there was a LAN center close by to the Dreamhack venue that the matches could be played from. SjoW managed to make arrangements to show up in order to play his match. After two emails and a phone call to White-Ra, I heard no response. After four hours of waiting, we gave July the choice to take a free win or reschedule. Understandably, July chose to take the win, after waking up at 4:00 am to play his match and waiting patiently for 4 hours for White-Ra to become available.
Because we had been in communication with White-Ra, we extended our 45 minute grace period to 4 hours. We are very sorry to both White-Ra, July, and the fans for this situation but it would be unfair at this point to allow a reschedule after July waited so long.
It's a shame more couldn't be done to work out the schedule (not saying NASL is responsible since they clearly tried to contact Whitera multiple times). I thought all these big tournies were going to go out of their way to not step on eachothers toes?
On April 14 2011 05:15 ImHuko wrote: This is where that refundable deposit comes in for the league right? Wonder how much he is going to get fined.
Probably not too much, White-Ra had to probably take a flight right after Dreamhack while Sjow lives in Sweden iirc. Sucks we don't get to see those two clash but oh well plenty of other games!
Yeah, it's unfortunate but its only one match out of many great games to come in the NASL. It's always going to be difficult with players from different corners of the world.
Yeah that's really sad. I suppose these things happen though. Didn't... Kyrix? Or maybe it was MarineKing... someone showed up really late for their GSL match in like GSL2 and they nearly gave it to the other person.
Sounds like a fair ruling, a perfect scenario would be separate events not conflicting with each other, or players being strict with their schedules, but it doesn't make sense for a player to not register for every event they can.
Definitely understandable that they waited for 4 hours, but their PR staff is doing a damn good job of spinning everything in as positive of a light as possible. Hopefully this doesn't happen again/too often since there are probably going to be lots of conflicts with other tournaments throughout the season.
see i don't understand why this wasn't solved beforehand. why not try and make sure that everyone who was playing in dh would not be playing the same day as they would be nasl. does not make sense, and poor planning by nasl.
i assume they would not ask players in gsl to do this. so why does it fall on white-ra. this is nasl's fault
Totally sucks that this match won't be played but I can't fault the decision of the NASL. It sucks, I looked at the schedule for today's games and was all excited about seeing July vs White-Ra and then I read a few seconds later that it's not taking place. It's a sucky situation for all involved but I think they did the correct thing.
White-Ra probably knew about the LAN center, but was too pissed off at the way the finals went to even think about playing the NASL. + Show Spoiler +
After falling to 2-2 after being up 2-0, White-Ra failed to scout MC's proxy-gateway zealot cheese (Additionally, he scouted close positions first despite there being fixed cross-position spawns.).
Respect to July for waiting so long. If i got up at 4am and the 45 min grace period was over i'd go back to sleep.
Sorry about not seeing that match, since i was hoping for a good game between those two, but honestly i think this decision is correct from a buisness PoV.
Tough decision, but consider the format of the tournament it isn't too horrible, it isn't like White-Ra got knocked out or something, he's just going to be starting from behind is all.
On April 14 2011 05:28 ptbl wrote: I hope we won't see these type of scheduling conflicts in the future. NASL should of scheduled the match a day or two earlier.
"We discussed postponing it, but that is something we really can’t do with such an aggressive broadcast schedule.".
I bet its the same situation with playing the matches earlier. Right decision. And mad props to July who stayed/woke up 4am and waited 4 god damn hours.
Did White-Ra BM again? Why not just go to the lan center and play his games like Sjow instead of going out and celebrating losing 3-2? Really rude to NASL and fans.
Obviously I'm a little disappointed that July took the win over a reschedule but realistically I can't blame him. Just an unfortunate event and nasl did what they had to. Don't quite understand why sjow got to the lan center and white-ra wasn't able to since they increased the grace period by three hours, but I imagine that there is a valid reason.
NASL should contact ESL and ask them how they deal with such things, since in a EPS (ESL Pro Series) there are no freewins given. I think in a professional league like this - a walkover should never be an option. Even with your aggressive broadcasting schedule there could be a better way to handle this. No offence to NASL , but thats my opinion.
On April 14 2011 05:31 trashcan wrote: Did White-Ra BM again? Why not just go to the lan center and play his games like Sjow instead of going out and celebrating losing 3-2? Really rude to NASL and fans.
To be fair we dont know what happened, do we? There is probably a good explanation.
Aw man I'm really bummed out. I was looking forward to watching these guys play.
I completely understand the decision. Its just too bad that no arrangements could be made prior to DH to reschedule. Oh well what can you do. Hopefully we won't have this happening too much in the future.
On April 14 2011 05:31 trashcan wrote: Did White-Ra BM again? Why not just go to the lan center and play his games like Sjow instead of going out and celebrating losing 3-2? Really rude to NASL and fans.
I don't think losing from a 2-0 lead is cause for celebration
White-Ra is one of the best players in the world. Not just his mechanics or style but because he has such a great attitude going into every game. It's unfortunate that he couldn't play but I bet there is a good enough explaination for his absence. Also, if I remember correctly, he will have another shot this season. If I'm wrong, sorry because I've been reading so much bracket info and can't remember if the players have a second try (maybe that is just the GSL and MLG). If not this season he will come back next season better and stronger than he would be this season. Congrats on July for waking up to face one of the best protoss' in the world at 4am and wait four hours. It's not the greatest victory and I bet he feels it but if every player knew they only had a 45 minute window then July won fair and square especially because of the extended delay. I hope both White-Ra and July the best along with every other pro and unknown playing in the tournament.
I'm very dissapointed with this decision. If white-ra simply no showed without letting anyone know then yes, by all means dq him, but this sounds like something that the NASL knew ahead of time. They could have easily made an exception and moved the match either ahead or back.
This has nothing to do with it being july vs white-ra... even if it was 2 random no names I'd say the same thing, but because it's two very promising players it makes it worse as a spectator because this was the highlight match of the day
This is one of those times when common sense needs to be used rather than going by the book. If your rule book isn't written in a way that protects against situations like this then it should be.
I feel like I was robbed because you guys are being sticklers. Reminds me of when people were getting DQd for saying ppp or not typing pp in the proper way. Rediculous.
On April 14 2011 05:21 masterbreti wrote: see i don't understand why this wasn't solved beforehand. why not try and make sure that everyone who was playing in dh would not be playing the same day as they would be nasl. does not make sense, and poor planning by nasl.
i assume they would not ask players in gsl to do this. so why does it fall on white-ra. this is nasl's fault
The NASL has had 50 players scheduled for games for a month of so now
Dreamhack announced their invites for their day long tournament a week or two ago.
On April 14 2011 05:31 trashcan wrote: Did White-Ra BM again? Why not just go to the lan center and play his games like Sjow instead of going out and celebrating losing 3-2? Really rude to NASL and fans.
Somehow I find this conclusion to not make much sense considering White-Ra's personality and actions in the past. I'm sorry you were offended as a fan, but I'm going to guess there were extenuating circumstances here and I'm sure he'll humbly take whatever fine there is for this.
On April 14 2011 05:31 disco wrote: I can't understand why, when everything is prerecorded, there isn't more flexibility for the players to schedule their matches like in the TSL.
TSL is (at this stage) 4 matches/week, and more importantly they are cast from replays. This means the game can be played at any time prior to the scheduled cast.
NASL is 5 matches/day which are all casted as the games are played. Rescheduling is much more of challenge before even considering that one player lives in the Ukraine and one in South Korea.
On April 14 2011 05:31 trashcan wrote: Did White-Ra BM again? Why not just go to the lan center and play his games like Sjow instead of going out and celebrating losing 3-2? Really rude to NASL and fans.
Oh come on, we went through 3 pages without a stupid comment.
On April 14 2011 05:34 SARgeant47 wrote: White-Ra is one of the best players in the world. Not just his mechanics or style but because he has such a great attitude going into every game. It's unfortunate that he couldn't play but I bet there is a good enough explaination for his absence. Also, if I remember correctly, he will have another shot this season. If I'm wrong, sorry because I've been reading so much bracket info and can't remember if the players have a second try (maybe that is just the GSL and MLG). If not this season he will come back next season better and stronger than he would be this season. Congrats on July for waking up to face one of the best protoss' in the world at 4am and wait four hours. It's not the greatest victory and I bet he feels it but if every player knew they only had a 45 minute window then July won fair and square especially because of the extended delay. I hope both White-Ra and July the best along with every other pro and unknown playing in the tournament.
You make it sound like white-ra is out of the tournament, He still got 8 games to go. I will still make him one of the favourite to go through.
I was cheering for White Ra, but I would have taken the free win. If you make time out of your schedule to show up for an event and your opponent doesn't respond for 4 hours, how would you feel?
On April 14 2011 05:35 starcraft911 wrote: I'm very dissapointed with this decision. If white-ra simply no showed without letting anyone know then yes, by all means dq him, but this sounds like something that the NASL knew ahead of time. They could have easily made an exception and moved the match either ahead or back.
This has nothing to do with it being july vs white-ra... even if it was 2 random no names I'd say the same thing, but because it's two very promising players it makes it worse as a spectator because this was the highlight match of the day
This is one of those times when common sense needs to be used rather than going by the book. If your rule book isn't written in a way that protects against situations like this then it should be.
I feel like I was robbed because you guys are being sticklers. Reminds me of when people were getting DQd for saying ppp or not typing pp in the proper way. Rediculous.
It wasn't impossible for White-ra to play his game as Sjow did. White-ra didn't make the effort to get in contact with the NASL, or get to a computer to play his game.
Also remember, the players are not the only ones in the game, the 2 NASL spectators have to be in it too... that's why there is a schedule and rules, it's not so easy to reschedule because there will be game happening in the hours before July v White-ra and in the hours after.
On April 14 2011 05:21 masterbreti wrote: see i don't understand why this wasn't solved beforehand. why not try and make sure that everyone who was playing in dh would not be playing the same day as they would be nasl. does not make sense, and poor planning by nasl.
i assume they would not ask players in gsl to do this. so why does it fall on white-ra. this is nasl's fault
The NASL has had 50 players scheduled for games for a month of so now
Dreamhack announced their invites for their day long tournament a week or two ago.
Grow up
You do realize the NASL is pre-recorded right? White-ra and july could have played their games 2 weeks ago and we would have not been the wiser.
This problem was 110% avoidable if the people running the NASL had some foresight. If the games were played live I would concede that they made the right choice, but the reality of the situation is that with it being pre-recorded they had many options to circumvent this problem.
Scheduling is bound to be an issue with the sheer amount of games being played. It is unfortunate, but not that concerning as long as it doesn't happen every other day.
Damn, that is unfortunate. I am sure that would of been an entertaining series to watch. Hopefully this doesnt end up making the difference between Whitera making past the group stages or not. That would be sad.
On April 14 2011 05:31 disco wrote: I can't understand why, when everything is prerecorded, there isn't more flexibility for the players to schedule their matches like in the TSL.
In the current setting NASL rescheduling options are nothing like the TSL's. They have like 10 staff with all kinds of high end equipment that all need to be there at a certain time preferably during their regular hours etc etc.
Also their schedule is much more brutal and scheduling conflicts will not end here. If they reschedule this one they pretty much have to comply to a lot of others as well.
Well, there goes the only exciting game out the window due to... something. No worries, tho, White-Ra seems like the kind of guy who has a good reason.
On April 14 2011 05:21 masterbreti wrote: see i don't understand why this wasn't solved beforehand. why not try and make sure that everyone who was playing in dh would not be playing the same day as they would be nasl. does not make sense, and poor planning by nasl.
i assume they would not ask players in gsl to do this. so why does it fall on white-ra. this is nasl's fault
The NASL has had 50 players scheduled for games for a month of so now
Dreamhack announced their invites for their day long tournament a week or two ago.
Grow up
You do realize the NASL is pre-recorded right? White-ra and july could have played their games 2 weeks ago and we would have not been the wiser.
This problem was 110% avoidable if the people running the NASL had some foresight. If the games were played live I would concede that they made the right choice, but the reality of the situation is that with it being pre-recorded they had many options to circumvent this problem.
Yeah, because it was pre-recorded, they gave White-Ra four hours of leeway. A live tournament wouldn't have been able to do that.
How sad, really that match was the only real reason to watch NASL tonight. Respect to July for waking up at 4 AM (WTF?!) and stay up for 4 goddamn hours! That's amazing, and shows how important NASL is to July, and probably to all of ST.
Hell, I whine like a girl when they wake me up at 4 to admit some kid to the hospital. I know I'd never wake up for SC. Either stay up or sleep. Waking up is just horrible
Oh well, that's a shame 'cause I like both of the players, but yeah, a 4 hour waiting period when you woke up at 4am not only shows july'd desire to play this game, but to actually do it fairly since from what I understand, according to the NASL rules he could have taken the win after a 45 minute wait. I don't think we'll know the reasons for WR's desertion, but yeah, I'm guessing he had to be somewhat pissed for losing the final and not getting a penny.
And, I can't complain, 5/6 for Liquibet thus far then :D
That is really sad to hear, that would have been a great match. Props to July for waiting 4 hours after waking up so early. I hope that White-Ra did indeed not have another choice on the matter, e.g. having to fly out immediately after Dreamhack, and it wasn't something silly like he forgot or assumed something else. If White-Ra's reputation is any indication, he probably feels really bad about the whole thing.
Although i'm kinda dissapointed , this is good news for me as a July fan . I'm kinda scared after Rainbow lagged a lot against Morrow and since July is his team-mate he could probably lag also . July must make top 16 by any means necessary !
I expect to see more similar problems in the future as the number of large tournaments increase and the higher tier players are forced to chose what tournaments they wish to participate without getting to ambitious.
Gah, Dreamhack finals were spoiled for me in this thread D:
Anyway, this really sucks. I don't necessarily blame White-Ra for not picking up on the LAN center, nor for not responding to the calls (he could have been mid-flight, for all we know), though. I'm assuming he is aware of the situation?
Doh, this was the game I had been waiting for, what an unfortunate situation. The measures taken seem very fair though, thanks for quickly communicating about the issue like this. Thumbs up for the organization.
no way no way This is one of the match i been looking forward to =/ Well props for July waiting patiently for White-ra. I can't blame White-ra, He must have been tired from dreamhack and resting or out for work.
On April 14 2011 05:53 Absentia wrote: July really shouldn't have been made to wait for 4 hours. If the rule is 45 minutes then it should be adhered to.
If I understood correctly it was also July's decision to wait the extra 3 hours. So it's not like they forced him to wait.
tough call, and a damn shame it came to it... would have been an awesome match!
Waiting 4 hours was a good gesture on NASL and July's part, showing they respect the players and other tours, while maintaining the standing of the NASL.
Oh well, 9 more weeks to go.... im sure there will be other great games!
On April 14 2011 05:53 Absentia wrote: July really shouldn't have been made to wait for 4 hours. If the rule is 45 minutes then it should be adhered to.
As the statment said, they knew in advance of a possible scheduling conflict, and thus the grace period was extended to give whitera a chance to finish at DH and make the NASL games.
It's unfortunate, but it must be done. Scheduling conflicts will happen as more things come up, it's only a matter of time. NASL is trying to work as best as they can with GSL/MLG schedules, it's just a unfortunate event.
Is everyone here ignoring the post which clearly states that it can not be rescheduled due to an aggresive schedule?
Props to July for waiting so long, and ofcourse he takes the win, it is only logical. The guy at 4 am waits for 4hours?his brain must be fried by then.
that being said, ezmode LQB win, I knew July would win, he is so good that he doesn't even have to play!
Oh well that is a shame but i fully support giving july the win, sometimes scheduling things like this will happen with such an intensive schedule but its a shame white-ra couldnt find a lan centre like sjow did, but that could be due to other issues such as flight time/ not speaking swedish to find out if there is one etc.
I think NASL shouldn't ultimately leave any final decisions up to the player. I mean it puts the player in an uncomfortable position to decide how long to wait for their opponent to show up, and whether or not to take the win, and then to potentially take alot of flack from segments of the community for what could be an unpopular DQ.
Not saying NASL handled this totally wrong, as I think it's cool to ask July to extend from waiting 45 minutes and give WhiteRa more time to respond, but after waiting the 4 hours, NASL should've made the final call whether to reschedule or to DQ WhiteRa.
Good that they award July the win. Very reasonable and thought decision and I'm happy to see July being a good sport and waiting all that time. He definitely deserves to advance. Now about cross server lag...
Ahhhh crap!!!! Won't see my man July play. It would have been a great match,just like their first acounter, Im sure. Wish we could just see July play some guy from Startale instead.....just for the fun of it. T__T
oGsMC again! I haven't seen it yet and don't know who wins, but hopefully it is much closer than the TSL, hopefully as or more epic than their match in GSTL WC :D
Meh, that was match I was most excited about for tonight... oh well, it seems that NASL people did everything they could for match to happen. Next round White-Ra fighting!!!
I think NASL shouldn't ultimately leave any final decisions up to the player. I mean it puts the player in an uncomfortable position to decide how long to wait for their opponent to show up, and whether or not to take the win, and then to potentially take alot of flack from segments of the community for what could be an unpopular DQ.
Not saying NASL handled this totally wrong, as I think it's cool to ask July to extend from waiting 45 minutes and give WhiteRa more time to respond, but after waiting the 4 hours, NASL should've made the final call whether to reschedule or to DQ WhiteRa.
More or less echo's my sentiments. I agree with the decision, I just disagree that it appears it was ultimately July's decision. Can you imagine the shit storm, if we replaced White-ra with Huk and July with Idra. It wouldn't matter what the decision was, correct or not it would turn into an absolute debacle.
I really think these kind of situations should be clearly laid out in league rules and they are followed to a tee without pinning the reschedule/forfeit decision to the player. The league should be taking the heat for that decision regardless of it being seen as good/bad by the viewers. It should not be put on the players.
too bad for white-ra and us spectators but I agree with the decision and mad props to july after getting up so early and waiting for 4hrs and no whining or anything. Mad props to NASL as well for handling this in a good way and being transparent with the decision making and process.
On April 14 2011 06:13 Magni wrote: I want to see a showmatch between these too, just to sate my curiosity.
This! Lets get some fundraising going to get this would-be awesome series played anyway. We can also extend it to a BO7!
Meanwhile White-Ra will have to settle for going only almost undefeated through the NASL. Meh, sometimes important things get in the way. Like marriage. Airports. Playing MC. Or beer.
I can totally understand White-Ra going out for a few drinks after an exhausting day. Shame he didn't get to contact the NASL to say he would forfeit. On the other hand I'm very impressed with July for actually waiting a whole four hours. Of course he accepts the free win, I mean when else would the series be played? Also a free win in such a big tournament against one of the best protosses? Hell yes.
And this is how NASL will lose fans, THEY SHOULD ALWAYS ASSUME THAT WHITE_RA WILL BE IN FINALS. SRSLY, WTF, reschedule that shit, this is one of the most anticipated games in this league. Dump of the other games with shity players.
On April 14 2011 05:21 masterbreti wrote: see i don't understand why this wasn't solved beforehand. why not try and make sure that everyone who was playing in dh would not be playing the same day as they would be nasl. does not make sense, and poor planning by nasl.
i assume they would not ask players in gsl to do this. so why does it fall on white-ra. this is nasl's fault
The NASL has had 50 players scheduled for games for a month of so now
Dreamhack announced their invites for their day long tournament a week or two ago.
Grow up
You do realize the NASL is pre-recorded right? White-ra and july could have played their games 2 weeks ago and we would have not been the wiser.
This problem was 110% avoidable if the people running the NASL had some foresight. If the games were played live I would concede that they made the right choice, but the reality of the situation is that with it being pre-recorded they had many options to circumvent this problem.
You realize they have 25 series played every week. Every single one of those series needs the two observers in it, and be in reasonable hours for the Americans, and both competitors. An extremely tight schedule if you can imagine it where rescheduling is just not possible because they probably have a series happening every 4 hours. There would be no room for them to reschedule.
Damn it. I was really looking forward to seeing some more of julys super aggresive style. I dont think that july would walk over white-ra at all though. I think it wouldve been an amazing game. Oh well, maybe next time
Even if White-Ra showed up 4 hours late, making July play in that situation would've been unfair. Sitting on your ass for 4 hours can kill your mental preparation.
Ahh that's too bad, I was really looking forward to this epic match This seems a fair decision in my opinion. Kudos to the God of War for waiting patiently
I don't see why they don't cast certain matches via replay. Don't have to worry about syncing issues when both casters could commentate off of one screen. How are games going to be done with MLG Columbus on June 3rd-5th? Half the people playing have matches for NASL that same weekend.
So julyzerg pulled a Mayweather on White-Ra? Very disappointed july. Also NASL bad planning White-RA was proberly on a plane back to kiev rigth after dreamhack the fault is yours there should be a rematch only fair
On April 14 2011 05:56 Nomadic wrote: pretty bm to take the freewin
get out
It was pretty bm by july to wait an extra 3 hours durrrrrrrrr
On April 14 2011 06:26 Nerdslayer wrote: So julyzerg pulled a Mayweather on White-Ra? Very disappointed july. Also NASL bad planning White-RA was proberly on a plane back to kiev rigth after dreamhack the fault is yours there should be a rematch only fair
No he wasn't, and White-Ra was aware of his game... he wouldn't/shouldn't have scheduled a plane flight for that time. Also no, he didn't leave Sweden a couple hours after DreamHack ended
On April 14 2011 06:26 Nerdslayer wrote: So julyzerg pulled a Mayweather on White-Ra? Very disappointed july. Also NASL bad planning White-RA was proberly on a plane back to kiev rigth after dreamhack the fault is yours there should be a rematch only fair
July woke up at 4am and waited for 4 hours. Save your disappointment; nobody cares about it when it's so unjustifiably expressed.
I agree with the sentiment in this thread that the NASL should have made the final decision instead of shirking responsibility by asking PSJ to make the call for them.
On April 14 2011 06:26 Nerdslayer wrote: So julyzerg pulled a Mayweather on White-Ra? Very disappointed july.
On April 14 2011 06:20 Pirat6662001 wrote: And this is how NASL will lose fans, THEY SHOULD ALWAYS ASSUME THAT WHITE_RA WILL BE IN FINALS. SRSLY, WTF, reschedule that shit, this is one of the most anticipated games in this league. Dump of the other games with shity players.
You can't have a league with any kind of legitimacy if you favor certain players the way you are describing.
Don't understand why they just didn't reschedule the game when they knew White-Ra would be attending dreamhack. It seems like a bad idea to risk a situation like this if White-Ra would end up in the final. The decision would be more than fair if it came out of the blue tho, but NASL should have moved the game before hand imo.
On April 14 2011 06:20 Pirat6662001 wrote: And this is how NASL will lose fans, THEY SHOULD ALWAYS ASSUME THAT WHITE_RA WILL BE IN FINALS. SRSLY, WTF, reschedule that shit, this is one of the most anticipated games in this league. Dump of the other games with shity players.
Yup, they should just drop another match, just delete it, its not important in a league or anything.
On April 14 2011 06:26 Nerdslayer wrote: So julyzerg pulled a Mayweather on White-Ra? Very disappointed july. Also NASL bad planning White-RA was proberly on a plane back to kiev rigth after dreamhack the fault is yours there should be a rematch only fair
This guy screams troll. Please try rereading the thread instead of defaming the people that were trying to help your hero.
On April 14 2011 06:26 Nerdslayer wrote: So julyzerg pulled a Mayweather on White-Ra? Very disappointed july. Also NASL bad planning White-RA was proberly on a plane back to kiev rigth after dreamhack the fault is yours there should be a rematch only fair
July woke up at 4am and waited for 4 hours. Save your disappointment; nobody cares about it when it's so unjustifiably expressed.
Dude Julyzerg like many other pros knows that the esport scene is all about the fans. Taking a free win is like saying screw you fans. He should have done the only thing in the book and that would have been a a match in another time. I promise you if the situation has been reversed White-RA would have asked for a rematch,
Sucks that this had to happened, but I would have done the same if I was in July's position. Yeah, there is a honor code and such, but if you wake up at 4 AM expecting to play a match and you end up waiting for 4 hours, then who wouldn't just want to take the win? NASL has a large prize pot and whatever it takes to win it.
July gets bonus points in my book for staying up for 4 hours. That right there just shows that the Koreans are taking this league seriously. Still disappointed but oh well, with the sheer amount of games we are getting every week its very hard to fault the NASL. Love the league, keep up the good work.
On April 14 2011 06:26 Nerdslayer wrote: So julyzerg pulled a Mayweather on White-Ra? Very disappointed july. Also NASL bad planning White-RA was proberly on a plane back to kiev rigth after dreamhack the fault is yours there should be a rematch only fair
This guy screams troll. Please try rereading the thread instead of defaming the people that were trying to help your hero.
Im not a troll and I dont care if he waited 10 hours that fault is NASL fault alone not white-ra. Again Julyzerg should have given the fans a good fight not taking the easy win out. But call me troll all you want if that makes you feel better.
On April 14 2011 06:26 Nerdslayer wrote: So julyzerg pulled a Mayweather on White-Ra? Very disappointed july. Also NASL bad planning White-RA was proberly on a plane back to kiev rigth after dreamhack the fault is yours there should be a rematch only fair
This guy screams troll. Please try rereading the thread instead of defaming the people that were trying to help your hero.
Im not a troll and I dont care if he waited 10 hours that fault is NASL fault alone not white-ra. Again Julyzerg should have given the fans a good fight not taking the easy win out. But call me troll all you want if that makes you feel better.
White-Ra did not follow the rules and lost because of it. I am a HUGE White-Ra fan but this is pretty clear cut decision.
Unfortunate. White-Ra is one of my favourite players and I was seriously considering staying up till 2:30am to watch him and some of the other matches. Would have been a great match but it was the right decision. It's unforunate that Dreamhack wouldn't let White-Ra use a computer for a quick hour or hour and a half.
On April 14 2011 06:26 Nerdslayer wrote: So julyzerg pulled a Mayweather on White-Ra? Very disappointed july. Also NASL bad planning White-RA was proberly on a plane back to kiev rigth after dreamhack the fault is yours there should be a rematch only fair
This guy screams troll. Please try rereading the thread instead of defaming the people that were trying to help your hero.
Im not a troll and I dont care if he waited 10 hours that fault is NASL fault alone not white-ra. Again Julyzerg should have given the fans a good fight not taking the easy win out. But call me troll all you want if that makes you feel better.
White-Ra did not follow the rules and lost because of it. I am a HUGE White-Ra fan but this is pretty clear cut decision.
If theres someone to blame is NASL for putting the player in such a situation. They should have made the decision.
On the one hand, the ruling is by the book and in that regard fair. On the other hand, NASL has looked like a Kafkaesque bureaucracy even from the application stage, going "by the book" instead of common sense and what's best, whenever there's an issue.
Not much can be said...I did lose some cash on a white-ra bet, but what can you do.
Judging from pictures from the Dreamhack thread, White-Ra was at the after party with the other players. So, while I'm a big fan and this is unfortunate, it is is own fault.
Wow, stuff like this is really tough. I was looking forward to that much, but I think NASL made the right decision. I mean, it was 4 hours, it's only fair to July.
For everyone criticizing NASL - If you are going to run a league with 50 players, you simply must make a schedule and stick to it. You make an exception for Ra, then what about the next time someone wants to play in a tournament that conflicts, or simply oversleeps, or whatever. The reality is that if you want to run a league like this, you can't be making exceptions for everyone, and if you make them for Ra, you've got to make them for the next person or admit to favoritism, either one of which is going to screw you in the long run. The amount of SC tournaments out there is pretty significant, not everyone can play in everything, and if you want to play in NASL, you are agreeing to their schedule. If you choose to engage in an action (play a tournament for example) that might make you miss a game, thats the risk you take. Its unfortunate for the fans for sure, I love White-Ra and was looking forward to that match tonight, but I simply can't find any reason to blame NASL here.
This was easily top 3 match up of this week and possibly the tourney. NASL should have planed the schedule ahead, its not like White-Ra making it to the finals was not expected. NASL is doing everything they can to not get my money, i just spent 100$ i set aside for nex couple seasons because there is no point paying a league that is not doing everything in their power to provide the best games. First not doing everything they can to get Dimaga to play (top 3 zerg outside of Korea), Secondly not providing quality casting (srsly, gretorp has no charisma and no valuable input) Third punishing the player because he did too well in another tourney that nasl knew about month in advance. (Shafling a match or two from another group somehow is not a possibility?) Oh, also anyone who actually saw dreamhack saw White-RA RUNNING out after the finals were done, so he obviously tried to make it.
july seems like a guy least likely of all people to want a free win or something. I remember in the previous gsl code s group picking stages he picked MC because mc had beaten him before. he waited four hours after waking up at 4.a.m its not his problem nasl didn't see this possibility of whitera not making it because of dreamhack. 4 hours also seems like a long time too get to a pc cafe to play a best of 3. july is the person with the least blame here as far as i can tell.
A good decision But IMO it was not fair for you guys to keep july waiting for 4 hours. 2 would have been the Max IMO. Would have loved to see these games. Guesse it happens.
Any criticism of NASL in this matter amounts to naught but blind contrarianism. Most of you probably never liked the NASL, and this is just another reason to whine and complain about a completely logical decision they made. For an entire league, which is based on strict rules and a tight enough schedule as it is, to make an exception for one player who decided to play in another tournament the day of his match would be completely against any kind of actual professionalism.
We, as fans, should only bemoan the loss of the games inasmuch as we would have rather seen them than not. But to decry an injustice on the behalf of White-Ra for the NASL's decision is to be utterly blind to anything other than your own silly feeling of self-entitlement.
On April 14 2011 06:44 Pirat6662001 wrote: This was easily top 3 match up of this week and possibly the tourney. NASL should have planed the schedule ahead, its not like White-Ra making it to the finals was not expected. NASL is doing everything they can to not get my money, i just spent 100$ i set aside for nex couple seasons because there is no point paying a league that is not doing everything in their power to provide the best games. First not doing everything they can to get Dimaga to play (top 3 zerg outside of Korea), Secondly not providing quality casting (srsly, gretorp has no charisma and no valuable input) Third punishing the player because he did too well in another tourney that nasl knew about month in advance. (Shafling a match or two from another group somehow is not a possibility?) Oh, also anyone who actually saw dreamhack saw White-RA RUNNING out after the finals were done, so he obviously tried to make it.
Actually WhiteRa stayed on the DH stage for quite a while and signed autographs for quite a while which was very fortunate since i now posses a whitera signature. And you can see Whitera on the DH afterparty pictures so i think that NASL made a good call, if you are not there in time you will lose its as simple as that
It was a good gesture by July, but really NASL should have made the decision earlier and for him so he wouldn`t be put in such an akward spot and having to wait 4 hours. I think the rules should just be enforced more strictly by NASL. Good decision anyways.
On April 14 2011 06:44 Pirat6662001 wrote: This was easily top 3 match up of this week and possibly the tourney. NASL should have planed the schedule ahead, its not like White-Ra making it to the finals was not expected. NASL is doing everything they can to not get my money, i just spent 100$ i set aside for nex couple seasons because there is no point paying a league that is not doing everything in their power to provide the best games. First not doing everything they can to get Dimaga to play (top 3 zerg outside of Korea), Secondly not providing quality casting (srsly, gretorp has no charisma and no valuable input) Third punishing the player because he did too well in another tourney that nasl knew about month in advance. (Shafling a match or two from another group somehow is not a possibility?) Oh, also anyone who actually saw dreamhack saw White-RA RUNNING out after the finals were done, so he obviously tried to make it.
You do realize they did give White-Ra an extra 4 hours to show up to his matches, which he didn't do.
4hours is a LONG time to have waited.
White-Ra signed up to the NASL knowing the 45 mins rule. They gave him lee-way, yet he didn't show up. This is 100% White-Ra's fault, not the NASL who are doing an amazing job in giving us a lot of high level matches...
On April 14 2011 06:44 Pirat6662001 wrote: This was easily top 3 match up of this week and possibly the tourney. NASL should have planed the schedule ahead, its not like White-Ra making it to the finals was not expected. NASL is doing everything they can to not get my money, i just spent 100$ i set aside for nex couple seasons because there is no point paying a league that is not doing everything in their power to provide the best games. First not doing everything they can to get Dimaga to play (top 3 zerg outside of Korea), Secondly not providing quality casting (srsly, gretorp has no charisma and no valuable input) Third punishing the player because he did too well in another tourney that nasl knew about month in advance. (Shafling a match or two from another group somehow is not a possibility?) Oh, also anyone who actually saw dreamhack saw White-RA RUNNING out after the finals were done, so he obviously tried to make it.
obviously he had to go to the toilet.
let's make random assumptions
you should actually read the fucking news by NASL, they contacted dreamhack over this issue and they tried to contact white-ra himself. also sjow apparently found a way around the scheduling conflicts and played from somewhere else
NASL and July waited 4 hours (instead of 45minutes!), they're not to blame, it's unfortunate but white-ras own doing
July waiting for 4 hours instead of the agreed-upon 45 minutes was more than enough time. While this is unfortunately, good decisions were made by July and the NASL.
On April 14 2011 06:44 Pirat6662001 wrote: Oh, also anyone who actually saw dreamhack saw White-RA RUNNING out after the finals were done, so he obviously tried to make it.
This seems pretty baseless when the NASL said they send him two emails and a phone call during the 4 hours, all of which went unanswered.
its quite sad that nasl doesnt manage ahead for this. They must've known for weeks that whitera's/sjow's matches might clash with dreamhack. Why didnt they just reschedule them beforehand ???
Maybe White-Ra simply forgot or maybe he was too upset from the way he lost that last game at DH. Maybe he was super glued to the toilet seat or maybe he was kidnapped and returned 4 hours after the game. It doesn't really matter why he didn't make it to his match. The point is that he didn't for whatever reason. The only part about this I didn't like was NASL putting July in the awkward position of making a decision. They should have guidelines and simply stick to them.
Sucks and disappointed like everyone but the right decision was made. I thought that would be pretty clear with the addition of a detailed description of what happened. But I guess we have a number of 3rd graders in this thread that are hating on everything from Whitera to July to the actual league. That's just absurd.
On April 14 2011 06:44 Pirat6662001 wrote: Oh, also anyone who actually saw dreamhack saw White-RA RUNNING out after the finals were done, so he obviously tried to make it.
This seems pretty baseless when the NASL said they send him two emails and a phone call during the 4 hours, all of which went unanswered.
Whitera did not run from the stage, he signed autographs and took photos and was interviewed and all that good stuff! WhiteRa is a great player and probably my favourite protoss in the world but he knew that he had to play and he didnt show up, if you dont show up you lose. Its as simple as that
Dude Julyzerg like many other pros knows that the esport scene is all about the fans. Taking a free win is like saying screw you fans. He should have done the only thing in the book and that would have been a a match in another time. I promise you if the situation has been reversed White-RA would have asked for a rematch,
LOL is this comment for real? Iunno why im even bothering to write on this but
July's been in scene forever now and knows what's up. He acted like professional and chose to wait for white-ra for 4 hours. IF we were to blame someone for unprofessionalism, it would be white-ra buddy. He was (well-)aware of schedule conflict and did not respond to phone call and emails. Had he contacted them in any ways, (or responded) July could've avoided all the hassle he went through in the early morning.
Had this been reversed, White-ra getting up at 4am waiting for hours in uncertainty, I wouldn't be surprised to see White-ra doing the same thing. There's nothing wrong with taking the win here as far as I see
On April 14 2011 07:00 mdma-_- wrote: its quite sad that nasl doesnt manage ahead for this. They must've known for weeks that whitera's/sjow's matches might clash with dreamhack. Why didnt they just reschedule them beforehand ???
We discussed postponing it, but that is something we really can’t do with such an aggressive broadcast schedule.
they got 50 players and 200-something matches, if everyone comes up with something like "i can't be there then and then sorry, pls reschedule" the tournament would be a bloody mees in terms of organization
On April 14 2011 07:00 mdma-_- wrote: its quite sad that nasl doesnt manage ahead for this. They must've known for weeks that whitera's/sjow's matches might clash with dreamhack. Why didnt they just reschedule them beforehand ???
I don't understand why you are putting all the blame on the organization itself. WhiteRa applied to be part of the NASL, I'm guessing that means he abides by their rules and scheduling. The fault is definitely with him, I am sure he could have renegotiated a time earlier on. That being said, I'm a big fan of WhiteRa and it is unfortunate that the times of these tournaments conflicted,
Why not just make the wait time 15 minutes, after that have a reschedule, and if they fail to show for the reschedule then award forfeit.... This seems like a cop out by everybody considering NASL knew of dreamhack, yet didn't reschedule immediately. This is probably going to be a continuous major problem with having 5 matches everyday especially since a lot of the players are from around the world competing in various tournaments, and have to go about their daily lives. Too many forfeit games and the league will be seen as a big failure. Another issue is the fact that Julyzerg had to wake up at 4 am..... aren't there better times to arrange for both players? I mean why make the players suffer just so Americans can watch it live, spectators will always be able to watch the vods anytime just like its live, but making players play at unreasonable times will only result in worse matches.
On April 14 2011 06:17 ComusLoM wrote: I can totally understand White-Ra going out for a few drinks after an exhausting day. Shame he didn't get to contact the NASL to say he would forfeit. On the other hand I'm very impressed with July for actually waiting a whole four hours. Of course he accepts the free win, I mean when else would the series be played? Also a free win in such a big tournament against one of the best protosses? Hell yes.
Hmm, when July woke up at 4am, it would've been 9pm in Sweden. (The time when the finals started). Regarding the length of the finals, and autogram session with fans / interviews & stuff I doubt White-Ra could leave before 11pm (or arrive at the LAN centre before 11pm) Since this was 2hours after the scheduled match (and regarding the 45min grace period) maybe he thought he already lost?
I dont know if it was communicated to White-Ra that the grace period was extended (before those mails & phonecalls he missed). Could just be bad luck for all sides.
Though in regards to future NASLs, could they not schedule X days (5?) after the division phase (but prior to the LAN phase) where all missed games will be played? (And if one cannot show up then, he will autolose). And if there arent enough matches to fill those 2 days, rebroadcast some epic old games or do a "Best of Division X" kind of video (one for each day). Would be nice to hype the LAN phase, because I think I might've forgotten some of the earlier matches/days when we're mid June
On April 14 2011 07:06 -Jambi- wrote: Why not just make the wait time 15 minutes, after that have a reschedule, and if they fail to show for the reschedule then award forfeit.... This seems like a cop out by everybody considering NASL knew of dreamhack, yet didn't reschedule immediately. This is probably going to be a continuous major problem with having 5 matches everyday especially since a lot of the players are from around the world competing in various tournaments, and have to go about their daily lives. Too many forfeit games and the league will be seen as a big failure. Another issue is the fact that Julyzerg had to wake up at 4 am..... aren't there better times to arrange for both players? I mean why make the players suffer just so Americans can watch it live, spectators will always be able to watch the vods anytime just like its live, but making players play at unreasonable times will only result in worse matches.
NASL will be having games almost every day for 3 months, thay cannot reschedule every time a player has to attend another event. WhiteRa agreed to follow the rules and schedules when he signed up to NASL. In the end it is just one series, whitera should be able to make it out of his group easily and i will be cheering for him since he is my favourite
On April 14 2011 07:00 mdma-_- wrote: its quite sad that nasl doesnt manage ahead for this. They must've known for weeks that whitera's/sjow's matches might clash with dreamhack. Why didnt they just reschedule them beforehand ???
I don't understand why you are putting all the blame on the organization itself. WhiteRa applied to be part of the NASL, I'm guessing that means he abides by their rules and scheduling. The fault is definitely with him, I am sure he could have renegotiated a time earlier on. That being said, I'm a big fan of WhiteRa and it is unfortunate that the times of these tournaments conflicted,
they knew that he played dreamhack. I just dont understand why they couldnt schedule the game one day or so earlier and then edit it into todays show. Shouldnt be to much of a problem tbh.
As others have mentioned with 50 players and 5 matches a day they can't be making exceptions for people unless the player tells them there is a conflict date weeks in advance. The sadder story is not only do the koreans have to suffer through the very bad latency in their games, they also have to play at 4am. I know it was their choice to join the league and there is little NASL can do about the latency issue but I'm sure they could find a more reasonable time for the koreans to play their games.
Dreamhack schedule and participants have been known for a long time. The NASL explanation does not inform when White-Ra informed about the schedule conflict. If it was informed reasonable early, then I think this was a bad call from NASL. In this situation the best call would have been to reschedule the match to different day. If the schedule conflict was informed late, then the decision is reasonable.
On April 14 2011 07:06 -Jambi- wrote: Why not just make the wait time 15 minutes, after that have a reschedule, and if they fail to show for the reschedule then award forfeit.... This seems like a cop out by everybody considering NASL knew of dreamhack, yet didn't reschedule immediately. This is probably going to be a continuous major problem with having 5 matches everyday especially since a lot of the players are from around the world competing in various tournaments, and have to go about their daily lives. Too many forfeit games and the league will be seen as a big failure. Another issue is the fact that Julyzerg had to wake up at 4 am..... aren't there better times to arrange for both players? I mean why make the players suffer just so Americans can watch it live, spectators will always be able to watch the vods anytime just like its live, but making players play at unreasonable times will only result in worse matches.
What time do you suggest a Korean, European, and 2 Americans get together to play a best of 3? And how do you suggest the NASL handles possible rescheduling of their 200+ matches?
At first I was pissed because the result was spoiled but now I see... It's a shame too because this is the match I was most looking forward to watching tonight. Oh well.
On April 14 2011 07:06 -Jambi- wrote: Another issue is the fact that Julyzerg had to wake up at 4 am..... aren't there better times to arrange for both players? I mean why make the players suffer just so Americans can watch it live, spectators will always be able to watch the vods anytime just like its live, but making players play at unreasonable times will only result in worse matches.
watch it live? that makes no sense at all.. dreamhack was yesterday and the broadcast of the game in question would have been today. you don't watch it live, it gets casted while the game is happening and broadcasted a day after
that still means tho that when they have matches between EU and KR they have to manage 3 time zones... European time for one player, Korean time for the other one and Westcoast-US time for the NASL guys... it's just inevitable for someone to play in the middle of the night i assume
i really understand why there are any discussions or confusion about this at all... the info NASL put out explains everything perfectly fine :|
Dude Julyzerg like many other pros knows that the esport scene is all about the fans. Taking a free win is like saying screw you fans. He should have done the only thing in the book and that would have been a a match in another time. I promise you if the situation has been reversed White-RA would have asked for a rematch,
LOL is this comment for real? Iunno why im even bothering to write on this but
July's been in scene forever now and knows what's up. He acted like professional and chose to wait for white-ra for 4 hours.
And 4 hours is more than even a professional should be expected to wait. July acted like a friend. He is completely blameless in this entire situation and gets a big shiny gold star in my book.
Even though White-ra is the nicest guy ever and I'm saddened he had to forfeit, it's probably the right decision based purely on the set of events as described in the first post.
I think the reason white ra did not reply is because he understood the ruls and thought he had been walked over after 45mins. As much as he had to be blamed he knew the rules well himself.
On April 14 2011 05:18 Turgid wrote: Yeah that's really sad. I suppose these things happen though. Didn't... Kyrix? Or maybe it was MarineKing... someone showed up really late for their GSL match in like GSL2 and they nearly gave it to the other person.
Kyrix showed up late for GSL2 R16 against MKP. Thankfully they let him play, because that was an amazing series. I still show my friends match 1, where MKP unveiled his amazing marine micro to win against mass banelings.
On April 14 2011 07:06 -Jambi- wrote: Why not just make the wait time 15 minutes, after that have a reschedule, and if they fail to show for the reschedule then award forfeit.... This seems like a cop out by everybody considering NASL knew of dreamhack, yet didn't reschedule immediately. This is probably going to be a continuous major problem with having 5 matches everyday especially since a lot of the players are from around the world competing in various tournaments, and have to go about their daily lives. Too many forfeit games and the league will be seen as a big failure. Another issue is the fact that Julyzerg had to wake up at 4 am..... aren't there better times to arrange for both players? I mean why make the players suffer just so Americans can watch it live, spectators will always be able to watch the vods anytime just like its live, but making players play at unreasonable times will only result in worse matches.
What time do you suggest a Korean, European, and 2 Americans get together to play a best of 3? And how do you suggest the NASL handles possible rescheduling of their 200+ matches?
Around 24.00 GMT would probably the most reasonably time - 08.00 in Korea, 15.00-18.00 depending on where you are in the US. 07.00-08.00 GMT would also work, but I doubt the US casters would work at that time.
It's an understandable decision, but better scheduling for the players would be prefered since they're in different timezones and have to play on very inconvenient times to accomodate the american casters/players. As for White-Ra missing out, it's not surprising. When the finals were over, he was already 1h overdue for his match against July, and probably had to stick around for a while for interviews and whatnot. Sending an email isn't really efficient if he didn't have a computer to check it, and a single phone call is easily missed - nevermind actually finding an IT-café in Stockholm late at night.
Maybe they should have games between EU and KR casted from someone in Europe or Korea instead - probably hard to implement right now, but would allow the players to play at better times when waiting for 4 hours isn't that big an issue. Should be considered for future games.
Ah man, that really sucks. I wouldn't have been able to watch the games myself, but I know a lot of people were looking forward to them. (I would be too if I could see them)
There's absolutely no reason to hate on July. Yeah, it kinda sucks for the fans, but that's White Ra's fault just as much (I'd argue more) as it is July's. After getting up at 4am and waiting 4 hours on top of that, he's perfectly entitled to take the win without receiving any flak for it.
A forfeit for not showing for unknown reasons is ok, but for not showing because of being in the finals of a global invitational, that is ridiculous.
NASL is a 3 month long tournament, of course there will be scheduling conflicts with other tournaments during this long time. As long as you are notified by the player in advance, simply reschedule the match, what's so complicated about that ?
I really hope the staff of NASL reads this and hopefully make adjustment on their final decision process.
I hate to see players being put on a tough spot and having to making decisions.
This 4 hour wait, whether it was voluntary part by July or not, should not have occured on the first place. Both White-ra and NASL were aware of possible schedule conflict and something needed to be done beforehand instead of having a player wait in obsecurity. They should have stick to their rules(and yes I am aware of the reason for extending waiting time stated in OP) and mores strict when it comes to enforcing them, giving no exception. Once they start bending rules, it is always easier to bend for second time. Also July should've given the win instead of him opting that choice.
NASL is running the show and should never transfer the responsibility to players. In my opinion, in case of similar event, NASL should step up and call the shots instead of giving players choice and possibly leaving bad impression on spectators that might not take this too fondly.
On April 14 2011 07:06 -Jambi- wrote: Why not just make the wait time 15 minutes, after that have a reschedule, and if they fail to show for the reschedule then award forfeit.... This seems like a cop out by everybody considering NASL knew of dreamhack, yet didn't reschedule immediately. This is probably going to be a continuous major problem with having 5 matches everyday especially since a lot of the players are from around the world competing in various tournaments, and have to go about their daily lives. Too many forfeit games and the league will be seen as a big failure. Another issue is the fact that Julyzerg had to wake up at 4 am..... aren't there better times to arrange for both players? I mean why make the players suffer just so Americans can watch it live, spectators will always be able to watch the vods anytime just like its live, but making players play at unreasonable times will only result in worse matches.
What time do you suggest a Korean, European, and 2 Americans get together to play a best of 3? And how do you suggest the NASL handles possible rescheduling of their 200+ matches?
.... Why not just have the players agree on times for that week (for a reschedule), and the casters cast the replay. You people think way too much inside the box here. Plus as I already stated if the players are playing at a time they are both comfortable with the quality of the games will most likely be better. Nothing against NASL as they have been alright so far but it just seems a bit ignorant of them calling this the North American Star League, making it a global league, then not even considering time zone issues and scheduling conflicts while having an online global league.
edit > was also thinking as someone else posted why not have other casters on board? There is that one German caster who is pretty good, and tons of others around and it's good to hone up my German skills and learn a few new words, and I am sure there are people who would be willing to cast live if that's what people really want.
I feel sorry for the people who shelled out money to watch forfeit wins and losses :/
On April 14 2011 07:34 dkream wrote: July should've given the win instead of him opting that choice.
NASL is running the show and should never transfer the responsibility to players. In my opinion, in case of similar event, NASL should step up and call the shots instead of giving players choice and possibly leaving bad impression on spectators that might not take this too fondly.
On April 14 2011 07:06 -Jambi- wrote: Why not just make the wait time 15 minutes, after that have a reschedule, and if they fail to show for the reschedule then award forfeit.... This seems like a cop out by everybody considering NASL knew of dreamhack, yet didn't reschedule immediately. This is probably going to be a continuous major problem with having 5 matches everyday especially since a lot of the players are from around the world competing in various tournaments, and have to go about their daily lives. Too many forfeit games and the league will be seen as a big failure. Another issue is the fact that Julyzerg had to wake up at 4 am..... aren't there better times to arrange for both players? I mean why make the players suffer just so Americans can watch it live, spectators will always be able to watch the vods anytime just like its live, but making players play at unreasonable times will only result in worse matches.
What time do you suggest a Korean, European, and 2 Americans get together to play a best of 3? And how do you suggest the NASL handles possible rescheduling of their 200+ matches?
.... Why not just have the players agree on times for that week (for a reschedule), and the casters cast the replay. You people think way too much inside the box here. Plus as I already stated if the players are playing at a time they are both comfortable with the quality of the games will most likely be better. Nothing against NASL as they have been alright so far but it just seems a bit ignorant of them calling this the North American Star League, making it a global league, then not even considering time zone issues and scheduling conflicts while having an online global league.
edit > was also thinking as someone else posted why not have other casters on board? There is that one German caster who is pretty good, and tons of others around and it's good to hone up my German skills and learn a few new words, and I am sure there are people who would be willing to cast live if that's what people really want.
I feel sorry for the people who shelled out money to watch forfeit wins and losses :/
Tournament organizers have ALWAYS complained about the difficulty of getting replays consistently and on time from their participants. The NASL would have a huge amount of work to ensure they get the needed replays by the deadline. If the players missed that, the league would need some sort of penalty system to make sure that players actually submit replays, just as they do now for players missing their scheduled game time.
There are tradeoffs to every method of running a tournament. Everything isn't as black and white as you make it seem.
On April 14 2011 07:34 dkream wrote: July should've given the win instead of him opting that choice.
NASL is running the show and should never transfer the responsibility to players. In my opinion, in case of similar event, NASL should step up and call the shots instead of giving players choice and possibly leaving bad impression on spectators that might not take this too fondly.
On April 14 2011 07:33 Ancient.eu wrote: This is a wrong way to do things.
A forfeit for not showing for unknown reasons is ok, but for not showing because of being in the finals of a global invitational, that is ridiculous.
NASL is a 3 month long tournament, of course there will be scheduling conflicts with other tournaments during this long time. As long as you are notified by the player in advance, simply reschedule the match, what's so complicated about that ?
What's so complicated about that?
Did you actually look at the number of games they have to process during the next months?
If already start rescheduling matches on the second day of broadcast things would get totally out of hand during the next months... there'd be days with like only 1 game and in the end they'd have 20 matches they didn't cast because they were rescheduled and didn't fit into the schedule anymore. And at some point they had to stop rescheduling, then the players start to complain because it's not fair looking at the players who had their games postponed, etc etc etc... This tournament is not some random fun online thing, it's serious business and requires serious organization. Some people here chilling on front of their PCs at home go like "AW MAN BUT IT'S SO EEAAAASY" without actually knowing what's going on behind the scenes.
From reading the news NASL put out they even did way more than they probably had to. Contacting dreamhack, them trying to contact White-Ra, waiting 4 HOURS instead of 45 minutes for the games to begin. On top of that Sjow actually managed to get his games played.
I love White-Ra as much as everyone else, but I can't see how this is NASL's fault at all.
.... Why not just have the players agree on times for that week (for a reschedule), and the casters cast the replay. You people think way too much inside the box here.
This is what leads to anarchy. With games every day, I feel NASL waited too long for Whitera. You show up in time for your match or you forfeit, no (even understandable!) excuses. It is the most respectful way to run things. July should not have to wait around 4 hours. And if such are the rules, Whitera just has to accept the forfeit.
Without such rules it is a slippery slope.
Maybe when things get to the later rounds and there are less games per day perhaps NASL can be a bit more forgiving for scheduling. But scheduling people from around the world every day...make a no exceptions rule or else IT WILL END UP UNFAIR to someone as the line will move around.
On April 14 2011 07:33 Ancient.eu wrote: This is a wrong way to do things.
A forfeit for not showing for unknown reasons is ok, but for not showing because of being in the finals of a global invitational, that is ridiculous.
NASL is a 3 month long tournament, of course there will be scheduling conflicts with other tournaments during this long time. As long as you are notified by the player in advance, simply reschedule the match, what's so complicated about that ?
What's so complicated about that?
Did you actually look at the number of games they have to process during the next months?
If already start rescheduling matches on the second day of broadcast things would get totally out of hand during the next months... there'd be days with like only 1 game and in the end they'd have 20 matches they didn't cast because they were rescheduled and didn't fit into the schedule anymore. This tournament is not some random fun online thing, it's serious business and requires serious organization. Some people here chilling on front of their PCs at home go like "AW MAN BUT IT'S SO EEAAAASY" without actually knowing what's going on behind the scenes.
From reading the news NASL put out they even did way more than they probably had to. Contacting dreamhack, them trying to contact White-Ra, waiting 4 HOURS instead of 45 minutes for the games to begin. On top of that Sjow actually managed to get his games played.
I love White-Ra as much as everyone else, but I can't see how this is NASL's fault at all.
Well, the NASL schedule conflicts heavily with MLG Columbus so I hope they have a workaround for that weekend.
Sounds like NASL did all they could. White-Ra was invited to the tournament and accepted. You would assume he would make it to his games. Double booking is not acceptable, like you would get pissed off if a doctor did this to you and you had to reschedule. Its not fair on NASL to have to deal with this and on the fans and spectators who expected to watch him.
What are the point of rules if people are free to break it. The game is played on a set time and a 45 minute grace time is given. You don't show up, the other player should be given the win. White Ra is not a special person that NASL should tweak something for him. Sure, White Ra was busy and had another tourney. No special action should happen.
On April 14 2011 07:33 Ancient.eu wrote: This is a wrong way to do things.
A forfeit for not showing for unknown reasons is ok, but for not showing because of being in the finals of a global invitational, that is ridiculous.
NASL is a 3 month long tournament, of course there will be scheduling conflicts with other tournaments during this long time. As long as you are notified by the player in advance, simply reschedule the match, what's so complicated about that ?
What's so complicated about that?
Did you actually look at the number of games they have to process during the next months?
If already start rescheduling matches on the second day of broadcast things would get totally out of hand during the next months... there'd be days with like only 1 game and in the end they'd have 20 matches they didn't cast because they were rescheduled and didn't fit into the schedule anymore. This tournament is not some random fun online thing, it's serious business and requires serious organization. Some people here chilling on front of their PCs at home go like "AW MAN BUT IT'S SO EEAAAASY" without actually knowing what's going on behind the scenes.
Dreamhack schedule has been known for a long time. If White-Ra informed about the conflict several days (preferably weeks) in advance, rescheduling should have been doable. But we don't know if he informed NASL reasonably early, as this information was not released.
Unfortunate but understandable of course. Agreed with others that NASL should not give July that choice - simply award him the win. It's an unfair position to put him in.
On April 14 2011 07:33 Ancient.eu wrote: This is a wrong way to do things.
A forfeit for not showing for unknown reasons is ok, but for not showing because of being in the finals of a global invitational, that is ridiculous.
NASL is a 3 month long tournament, of course there will be scheduling conflicts with other tournaments during this long time. As long as you are notified by the player in advance, simply reschedule the match, what's so complicated about that ?
What's so complicated about that?
Did you actually look at the number of games they have to process during the next months?
If already start rescheduling matches on the second day of broadcast things would get totally out of hand during the next months... there'd be days with like only 1 game and in the end they'd have 20 matches they didn't cast because they were rescheduled and didn't fit into the schedule anymore. This tournament is not some random fun online thing, it's serious business and requires serious organization. Some people here chilling on front of their PCs at home go like "AW MAN BUT IT'S SO EEAAAASY" without actually knowing what's going on behind the scenes.
From reading the news NASL put out they even did way more than they probably had to. Contacting dreamhack, them trying to contact White-Ra, waiting 4 HOURS instead of 45 minutes for the games to begin. On top of that Sjow actually managed to get his games played.
I love White-Ra as much as everyone else, but I can't see how this is NASL's fault at all.
Well, the NASL schedule conflicts heavily with MLG Columbus so I hope they have a workaround for that weekend.
heavily? how? unless for some reason MLG columbus isn't over a weekend. they would just do it like how they are doing it now, cept play friday's matches to anywhere in between monday-thursday. they dont cast live, so it wouldnt matter, just record and broadcast on friday.
loving the people who have never planned a legitimate event in their life, let alone a big global one, who are bitching and acting like there are so many better obvious solutions.
On April 14 2011 07:52 TooN wrote: What are the point of rules if people are free to break it. The game is played on a set time and a 45 minute grace time is given. You don't show up, the other player should be given the win. White Ra is not a special person that NASL should tweak something for him. Sure, White Ra was busy and had another tourney. No special action should happen.
Things aren't black-and-white like this. Things should not go "by the book" if there is a more humane, doable, and agreeable solution. They obviously understood that there could be a pretty huge conflict that they did not prepare for despite the fact that they should have, and they felt that it was only fair to let him have an extended grace period. It doesn't matter that it was White-Ra. July could have been at the finals, and they would have acted in the same way.
On April 14 2011 08:10 LuckyFool wrote: I can't believe nasl admins couldn't just delay this match....
I know its a tight schedule but seriously there are times for exceptions and this would have been one of those times. wow.
they were willing to delay it for 4 hours instead of the regular 45minutes...
and if they already make an exception like this on their second day, it will be utter chaos in a few weeks because every player will come and say "THIS THE TIME FOR AN EXCEPTION!", you did it for him, do it for me!
July had to wake up at 4am to play the match? Goodness, if all koreans are in this kind of situation, it wouldn't be surprising if only a few of them advance to the next round.
On April 14 2011 08:10 LuckyFool wrote: I can't believe nasl admins couldn't just delay this match....
I know its a tight schedule but seriously there are times for exceptions and this would have been one of those times. wow.
they were willing to delay it for 4 hours instead of the regular 45minutes...
and if they already make an exception like this on their second day, it will be utter chaos in a few weeks because every player will come and say "THIS THE TIME FOR AN EXCEPTION!", you did it for him, do it for me!
No doubt. But NASL is in the business of selling entertainment. Skipping matches like that doesn't provide any. And it was one of the best matchups for the ENTIRE thing. People are obviously more excited for white-ra v. July than they are for darkforce vs cruncher. Not saying they're bad players, but they don't have the same fan-magnet star-status.
Now if white-ra said he'd be there and then just didn't show up I suppose it's a reasonable decision, but the game shouldn't have been scheduled on the same day as dreamhack in the first place.
honestly if i was july, i'd reschedule. i mean, if you wanna win it, you can win it properly. not putting july down, but he could just hang around and practice with others while waiting for him.
On April 14 2011 08:21 Nemuru wrote: anyway gl july in the next round
Just in case you misunderstood, White-Ra isn't eliminated, he just loses this series. If this was during the final ro16 tournament, then yes he would be eliminated but this is just a round 1 loss for him in his group. Its not a big deal.
Respect to July though for waiting 4 hours. Thats unfortunate that White-Ra couldn't make it, but shit happens.
The problem here is that Whitera, unlike Sjow, decided to go to the Dreamhack Afterparty and get ... very drunk. That's his choice and that's fine but July, on the other hand, chose to wake up at 4am and give Whitera 4 hours time to answer several emails and a phone call.
how long beforehand were NASL admins told white-ra and sjow would be participating at DH? That's the relevant question in my opinion (sorry if it was already answered). The decission they made seems to be absolutely right, but if they knew about it for about a week I find it very unprofessional. Relying on luck? Come on.. i don't believe they wouldn't be able to find 2 players who were sheduled to play later to play their match instead of White-ra's.
On April 14 2011 08:10 LuckyFool wrote: I can't believe nasl admins couldn't just delay this match....
I know its a tight schedule but seriously there are times for exceptions and this would have been one of those times. wow.
they were willing to delay it for 4 hours instead of the regular 45minutes...
and if they already make an exception like this on their second day, it will be utter chaos in a few weeks because every player will come and say "THIS THE TIME FOR AN EXCEPTION!", you did it for him, do it for me!
Only giving 4 hours for a player who was literally traveling home from dreamhack at that time isn't very accommodating in my opinion.
And you don't think a player traveling because he was in the finals of dreamhack is a valid enough exception to delay a match for a day or two?
Why couldn't they have played in advance too? There are so many other ways to make sure matches get played other than a walkover which should be the absolute last resort...
It should be the NASL's primary goal that matches get played, considering that without matches there's no NASL. What's worse, no game, or a game a day late?
On April 14 2011 08:10 LuckyFool wrote: I can't believe nasl admins couldn't just delay this match....
I know its a tight schedule but seriously there are times for exceptions and this would have been one of those times. wow.
they were willing to delay it for 4 hours instead of the regular 45minutes...
and if they already make an exception like this on their second day, it will be utter chaos in a few weeks because every player will come and say "THIS THE TIME FOR AN EXCEPTION!", you did it for him, do it for me!
If White-ra informed them about DH more than week in advance , they should have rescheduled, because there is such a high possibility of this happening. In any case poor scheduling by NASL. The match was scheduled before finals of DH ended ? In that case talking about waiting for White-ra for 4h is kind of strange. The final decision is ok, but the scheduling decision is bad if they were informed about DH in advance. There is reasonable adherence to rules and blind adherence. Scheduling non-live matches of the player that is attending big tournament and it is known that he is for the same day is the bad kind of adherence to the rules. But in the end we don't really have much info about this case, since NASL decision does not say when they were informed about DH, we do not know what White-ra thought was going to happen, especially since his English is not 100%.
So in the end, the decision is ok, but next time maybe schedule things slightly better ?
On April 14 2011 08:24 Cranberries wrote: The problem here is that Whitera, unlike Sjow, decided to go to the Dreamhack Afterparty and get ... very drunk. That's his choice and that's fine but July, on the other hand, chose to wake up at 4am and give Whitera 4 hours time to answer several emails and a phone call.
The only person to blame here is Whitera.
Well if all the times match , then NASL actually scheduled the match before final of DH ended, which is very strange scheduling.
On April 14 2011 08:30 akalarry wrote: out of curiosity,
is 4am when the koreans normally play for these online tournaments like tsl and nasl?
what time is it for the europeans and north americans?
In this scenario 4am Korean Time is around 9pm Swedish time.
The finals of DH finished at 21:45~ Swedish time (45 minutes, so that's fine). Whitera then spent approximately 15 minutes on stage signing autographs, pictures. Afterwards he went to the DH afterparty.
It's entirely his fault. He easily had enough time to play.
On April 14 2011 08:10 LuckyFool wrote: I can't believe nasl admins couldn't just delay this match....
I know its a tight schedule but seriously there are times for exceptions and this would have been one of those times. wow.
they were willing to delay it for 4 hours instead of the regular 45minutes...
and if they already make an exception like this on their second day, it will be utter chaos in a few weeks because every player will come and say "THIS THE TIME FOR AN EXCEPTION!", you did it for him, do it for me!
Only giving 4 hours for a player who was literally traveling home from dreamhack at that time isn't very accommodating in my opinion.
you don't even know he was traveling home right after the event, what the fuck.
there are actually people on the thread saying he was going to an afterparty following the event...
On April 14 2011 08:30 akalarry wrote: out of curiosity,
is 4am when the koreans normally play for these online tournaments like tsl and nasl?
what time is it for the europeans and north americans?
In the NASL it's 4am for the koreans. In the TSL It's different I think, the players can then decide on a time when they want to play, hence the cast watching replays. NASL is recorded live so the players can't just play whenever they want.
I'm not sure about all the timezones but 4am in Korea would mean about 10 pm for me. (sweden)
On April 14 2011 08:10 LuckyFool wrote: I can't believe nasl admins couldn't just delay this match....
I know its a tight schedule but seriously there are times for exceptions and this would have been one of those times. wow.
they were willing to delay it for 4 hours instead of the regular 45minutes...
and if they already make an exception like this on their second day, it will be utter chaos in a few weeks because every player will come and say "THIS THE TIME FOR AN EXCEPTION!", you did it for him, do it for me!
Only giving 4 hours for a player who was literally traveling home from dreamhack at that time isn't very accommodating in my opinion.
And you don't think a player traveling because he was in the finals of dreamhack is a valid enough exception to delay a match for a day or two?
Why couldn't they have played in advance too? There are so many other ways to make sure matches get played other than a walkover which should be the absolute last resort...
It should be the NASL's primary goal that matches get played, considering that without matches there's no NASL. What's worse, no game, or a game a day late?
Is it accommodating for a player that showed up on time even though it meant waking up at 4 AM and staying awake until 8?
I suppose they could have planned in advance, but it would have been up to White-Ra to ask for that and make it happen, and he apparently didn't take the initiative to try to work it out beforehand.
Besides, this is hardly anything new. In a lot of smaller tournaments (weeklies etc), picking one tournament over the other means getting eliminated from the one you missed out on if there's a scheduling conflict that can't be resolved quickly enough. Sorting out the conflicts in any other way would be pretty much impossible.
On April 14 2011 06:26 Nerdslayer wrote: So julyzerg pulled a Mayweather on White-Ra? Very disappointed july. Also NASL bad planning White-RA was proberly on a plane back to kiev rigth after dreamhack the fault is yours there should be a rematch only fair
July woke up at 4am and waited for 4 hours. Save your disappointment; nobody cares about it when it's so unjustifiably expressed.
Dude Julyzerg like many other pros knows that the esport scene is all about the fans. Taking a free win is like saying screw you fans. He should have done the only thing in the book and that would have been a a match in another time. I promise you if the situation has been reversed White-RA would have asked for a rematch,
Did you even read the OP, like even a little bit?
"We discussed postponing it, but that is something we really can’t do with such an aggressive broadcast schedule."
Why is everyone complaining about the nasl's decision acting like Whitera is innocent in this case? The four hour grace period was plenty of time for him to finish the finals (and interviews, etc) at Dreamhack and play his matches. Instead, he ignored emails and a phone call and was seen attending an afterparty. It was irresponsible of him to agree to a tournament schedule and then leave people waiting for four hours for him.
On April 14 2011 08:30 akalarry wrote: out of curiosity,
is 4am when the koreans normally play for these online tournaments like tsl and nasl?
what time is it for the europeans and north americans?
In the NASL it's 4am for the koreans. In the TSL It's different I think, the players can then decide on a time when they want to play, hence the cast watching replays. NASL is recorded live so the players can't just play whenever they want.
I'm not sure about all the timezones but 4am in Korea would mean about 10 pm for me. (sweden)
Yes, and the DH finals were over before 21:45. They finished (as in MC was handed the cheque) at 21:52 Swedish time. I know because my friend was there and she and I were texting constantly (I racked up £22 in text bills >.> fml).
She also told me that all the pro-gramers (except SjoW) attended the afterparty. She left before Whitera left, and she left at 04:30~ Swedish time.
That's unfortunate, but as we all know, shit happens. There's really no one at fault here, White-Ra was up-front with NASL, saying that he was participating in DH and the only situation where he might not be able to make it was if he made the finals, NASL showed a fair bit of leniency to White-Ra seeing as how the Dreamhack guys weren't obligated to stick around after hours to accommodate one player, and July was cool enough to sit around for 4 hours at a horrible time in the night/morning waiting for a match that ultimately didn't get played - he's well within his rights to claim the win without having to make excuses or catch flak for "ducking the match". So it seems like a non-issue to me..it was cool of NASL to release the specifics beforehand, as well. Hope the rest of the matches go off as well, if not better, than yesterdays...
Edit/Addendum: I can't imagine how much of a pain in the ass it is to deal with the scheduling of the matches, due to it being casted live and having to work around the studio time as well. Same server matchups might not be too bad, but in a European vs Korean match, you're basically guaranteeing that someone is playing in the middle of the night/morning, as each participant is in a different third of the world.
On April 14 2011 08:36 Rokk wrote: Why is everyone complaining about the nasl's decision acting like Whitera is innocent in this case? The four hour grace period was plenty of time for him to finish the finals (and interviews, etc) at Dreamhack and play his matches. Instead, he ignored emails and a phone call and was seen attending an afterparty. It was irresponsible of him to agree to a tournament schedule and then leave people waiting for four hours for him.
Of course he is not, the decision is entirely correct. The scheduling on the other hand...
On April 14 2011 08:36 Rokk wrote: Why is everyone complaining about the nasl's decision acting like Whitera is innocent in this case? The four hour grace period was plenty of time for him to finish the finals (and interviews, etc) at Dreamhack and play his matches. Instead, he ignored emails and a phone call and was seen attending an afterparty. It was irresponsible of him to agree to a tournament schedule and then leave people waiting for four hours for him.
Of course he is not, the decision is entirely correct. The scheduling on the other hand...
you're all acting as if NASL didn't have an internal schedule and could just go on at random times 24/7 and record their games... they got 5 bo3's a day for 2months or something, have to cast them, run a studio, produce them, get all the players in their matches etc etc and still they waited for 4 hours
On April 14 2011 08:36 Rokk wrote: Why is everyone complaining about the nasl's decision acting like Whitera is innocent in this case? The four hour grace period was plenty of time for him to finish the finals (and interviews, etc) at Dreamhack and play his matches. Instead, he ignored emails and a phone call and was seen attending an afterparty. It was irresponsible of him to agree to a tournament schedule and then leave people waiting for four hours for him.
Of course he is not, the decision is entirely correct. The scheduling on the other hand...
Is also correct, because they set it in stone since they announced it. It's not their fault he couldn't make it.
Blame White-Ra for making you guys miss out on these games, not NASL. I love the guy as a player, but to think he deserves special treatment because he was attending another tournament on the day of his match is just silly.
On April 14 2011 08:36 Rokk wrote: Why is everyone complaining about the nasl's decision acting like Whitera is innocent in this case? The four hour grace period was plenty of time for him to finish the finals (and interviews, etc) at Dreamhack and play his matches. Instead, he ignored emails and a phone call and was seen attending an afterparty. It was irresponsible of him to agree to a tournament schedule and then leave people waiting for four hours for him.
Of course he is not, the decision is entirely correct. The scheduling on the other hand...
you're all acting as if NASL didn't have an internal schedule and could just go on at random times 24/7 and record their games... they got 5 bo3's a day for 2months or something, have to cast them, run a studio, produce them, get all the players in their matches etc etc and still they waited for 4 hours
If they knew about this issue even few days in advance then solving the scheduling issue is incredibly easy. They could have : a) rescheduled for previous day and just stay longer/come earlier to the studio b) casted from a replay, that way the only person necessary at the time of the match would have to be referee c) move some match from the incoming days to today and move White-ra/July match on another day
b) and c) are as easy as I can imagine. Maybe they have reasons why not to do it, but for now I cannot see any reasonable ones. Of course if they were informed about the DH conflict at the last moment then no error on their side.
On April 14 2011 06:26 Nerdslayer wrote: So julyzerg pulled a Mayweather on White-Ra? Very disappointed july. Also NASL bad planning White-RA was proberly on a plane back to kiev rigth after dreamhack the fault is yours there should be a rematch only fair
July woke up at 4am and waited for 4 hours. Save your disappointment; nobody cares about it when it's so unjustifiably expressed.
Dude Julyzerg like many other pros knows that the esport scene is all about the fans. Taking a free win is like saying screw you fans. He should have done the only thing in the book and that would have been a a match in another time. I promise you if the situation has been reversed White-RA would have asked for a rematch,
Did you even read the OP, like even a little bit?
"We discussed postponing it, but that is something we really can’t do with such an aggressive broadcast schedule."
Indeed, the choice was probably either: take free win after getting up at 4AM and waiting for hours, or: get up at 4AM tomorrow again, without guarantee that white-ra will show up since nobody had contact with whitera back then.
On April 14 2011 08:10 LuckyFool wrote: I can't believe nasl admins couldn't just delay this match....
I know its a tight schedule but seriously there are times for exceptions and this would have been one of those times. wow.
they were willing to delay it for 4 hours instead of the regular 45minutes...
and if they already make an exception like this on their second day, it will be utter chaos in a few weeks because every player will come and say "THIS THE TIME FOR AN EXCEPTION!", you did it for him, do it for me!
Only giving 4 hours for a player who was literally traveling home from dreamhack at that time isn't very accommodating in my opinion.
And you don't think a player traveling because he was in the finals of dreamhack is a valid enough exception to delay a match for a day or two?
Why couldn't they have played in advance too? There are so many other ways to make sure matches get played other than a walkover which should be the absolute last resort...
It should be the NASL's primary goal that matches get played, considering that without matches there's no NASL. What's worse, no game, or a game a day late?
They aren't done on the same day. So that four hours is a lot more time they gave him than the rules even allowed. They also have a bunch of other games that need to be played from other contestants, too.
On April 14 2011 08:36 Rokk wrote: Why is everyone complaining about the nasl's decision acting like Whitera is innocent in this case? The four hour grace period was plenty of time for him to finish the finals (and interviews, etc) at Dreamhack and play his matches. Instead, he ignored emails and a phone call and was seen attending an afterparty. It was irresponsible of him to agree to a tournament schedule and then leave people waiting for four hours for him.
Of course he is not, the decision is entirely correct. The scheduling on the other hand...
Is also correct, because they set it in stone since they announced it. It's not their fault he couldn't make it.
Blame White-Ra for making you guys miss out on these games, not NASL. I love the guy as a player, but to think he deserves special treatment because he was attending another tournament on the day of his match is just silly.
Since the rescheduling would be easy and if done only for big tournaments would not create any dangerous precedent, it is rather strange decision, because NASL wants the game played(or at least they should) since it is in their interest to have games played , especially such prestigious ones. Also I see no reason to blame anyone, but I am questioning their scheduling. Ok, yes I am blaming White-ra and NASL (both for different reasons) for making July wait.
such bullshit. nasl won't get called out for it because no one can do it in a way that matters to them. there aren't even sponsors to complain too. what a joke.
Whole thing sounds like crap to me, I recall the marching anthem from Incontrol how events should be "player focus and for the players and hey doesn't it suck how IdrA couldn't leave GSL to play in a such and such event because of another event" This type of talk was trumpeted over and over again on SOTG.... what a bitter taste of hypocrisy to hear how a 4 hour conflict was resolved in a freewin. There are going to be so many more conflicts as this goes on because you are running every fricken day, you need to deal with these issues appropriately otherwise its going to be quite common that players suddenly drop due to travelling and other events. Maybe you should get the players to play a couple of days in advance swapping out any delayed games with buffer replays from the following day. Amazing how even live events are able to cope with unexpected delays, 5 3way ties and bnet disconnects.
I'm sad that the spectators & the event loses out on quality content which could be played from now til next week and watched whenever a day is short. Sad day indeed.
On April 14 2011 08:30 akalarry wrote: out of curiosity,
is 4am when the koreans normally play for these online tournaments like tsl and nasl?
what time is it for the europeans and north americans?
In this scenario 4am Korean Time is around 9pm Swedish time.
The finals of DH finished at 21:45~ Swedish time (45 minutes, so that's fine). Whitera then spent approximately 15 minutes on stage signing autographs, pictures. Afterwards he went to the DH afterparty.
It's entirely his fault. He easily had enough time to play.
LOL, if that's the case, there should be no argument about Whitera's loss at all. July wakes up at 4 am and waits for 4 hours, while Whitera goes to a party and gets drunk. Glad some other TL members aren't running NASL. Easy call.
On April 14 2011 09:01 aka_star wrote: +1 for wrong decision
Whole thing sounds like crap to me, I recall the marching anthem from Incontrol how events should be "player focus and for the players and hey doesn't it suck how IdrA couldn't leave GSL to play in a such and such event because of another event" This type of talk was trumpeted over and over again on SOTG.... what a bitter taste of hypocrisy to hear how a 4 hour conflict was resolved in a freewin. There are going to be so many more conflicts as this goes on because you are running every fricken day, you need to deal with these issues appropriately otherwise its going to be quite common that players suddenly drop due to travelling and other events. Maybe you should get the players to play a couple of days in advance swapping out any delayed games with buffer replays from the following day. Amazing how even live events are able to cope with unexpected delays, 5 3way ties and bnet disconnects.
I'm sad that the spectators & the event loses out on quality content which could be played from now til next week and watched whenever a day is short. Sad day indeed.
would you say going to an afterparty and getting wasted is the appropriate way to overcome the issue?
On April 14 2011 08:59 joheinous wrote: such bullshit. nasl won't get called out for it because no one can do it in a way that matters to them. there aren't even sponsors to complain too. what a joke.
What are your comments directed towards? NASL did everything they could to try to get in touch with Whitera. If Whitera was anticipating a schedule conflict, he either should've let them know as soon as the conflict was confirmed, or simply texted/emailed/picked up a phone call. July was up from 4am-8am korea time waiting for the match even when, in the contract signed by all the players, a forfeit by Whitera would've been completely legit after 1 hour. Where's the joke in all that?
Lol, I was so happy when I read the first few pages and it was civil and very level-headed comments about the decision. Skip towards the end and it slips a bit.
Sucks but I'm really impressed with July for waking up so early and sticking around for so long. Also for NASL for making the tough, but right choice. When you have the studio, technicians, and staff scheduled to play the games and this happens it sucks. But allowing a reschedule would make them have to allow any reschedule in the future. And now this sets the bar for even the biggest matches of the night will not receive any preferential treatment.
Tough choice but the right one which makes me give even more respect to the people running the NASL.
I was wondering how long it would take before this started occuring as some people have intensive scheduling and just the hour of play for koreans in general. I was hoping it would happen to someone i didn't like though...sad day.
On the other hand, zerg power. Thats how the god of war does it, he scares you out of playing.
On April 14 2011 09:01 Diaz wrote: I thought NASL was happening live I guess this means it's a live cast only but games were played before?
All the games are casted by the commentators as the games are played live by the players. NASL then edits the footage they record in the studio, edits it, then broadcasts the same night. So basically, games are played same day, just a bit earlier in the day.
On April 14 2011 08:59 joheinous wrote: such bullshit. nasl won't get called out for it because no one can do it in a way that matters to them. there aren't even sponsors to complain too. what a joke.
Hmm who is the sponsor for the NASL? I thought they going to release info when the season starts.
ugh best game of the day gone just gonna go to bed today and stay up 2morrow then ^^
Might sound stupid but I think White-ra either forgot or simply didn't care about the match too much. As said above he went to the DH afterparty instead of playing NASL, I guess he might have been too tired and didn't give himself much chance because of it. Could have given the NASL guys a call tho
Overall I think that we can all admit that this was handled admirably. There was a lot of communication and all possible courtesy was extended by NASL. I applaud how they went about it. And I think we can also all agree that waking up at 4 AM and then waiting 4 hours was an impressive act of patience by July, so he certainly deserves to at least receive something.
I love White-Ra, and, considering the type of guy he is, I'm sure he understands and probably even agrees with this.
On April 14 2011 09:06 BluePabs wrote: Lol, I was so happy when I read the first few pages and it was civil and very level-headed comments about the decision. Skip towards the end and it slips a bit.
Sucks but I'm really impressed with July for waking up so early and sticking around for so long. Also for NASL for making the tough, but right choice. When you have the studio, technicians, and staff scheduled to play the games and this happens it sucks. But allowing a reschedule would make them have to allow any reschedule in the future. And now this sets the bar for even the biggest matches of the night will not receive any preferential treatment.
Tough choice but the right one which makes me give even more respect to the people running the NASL.
As I said before, if you allowed reschedules only for big tournaments and some personal stuff (like member of the family dying, graduation, ....) it would be much better for viewers and NASL and would not create any precedent. Blind adherence to schedule, when rescheduling is easy and makes sense is a bad thing, not a good thing.
On April 14 2011 09:11 Char711 wrote: Overall I think that we can all admit that this was handled admirably. There was a lot of communication and all possible courtesy was extended by NASL. I applaud how they went about it. And I think we can also all agree that waking up at 4 AM and then waiting 4 hours was an impressive act of patience by July, so he certainly deserves to at least receive something.
I love White-Ra, and, considering the type of guy he is, I'm sure he understands and probably even agrees with this.
On April 14 2011 09:06 BluePabs wrote: Lol, I was so happy when I read the first few pages and it was civil and very level-headed comments about the decision. Skip towards the end and it slips a bit.
Sucks but I'm really impressed with July for waking up so early and sticking around for so long. Also for NASL for making the tough, but right choice. When you have the studio, technicians, and staff scheduled to play the games and this happens it sucks. But allowing a reschedule would make them have to allow any reschedule in the future. And now this sets the bar for even the biggest matches of the night will not receive any preferential treatment.
Tough choice but the right one which makes me give even more respect to the people running the NASL.
As I said before, if you allowed reschedules only for big tournaments and some personal stuff (like member of the family dying, graduation, ....) it would be much better for viewers and NASL and would not create any precedent. Blind adherence to schedule, when rescheduling is easy and makes sense is a bad thing, not a good thing.
EDIT:typo fixed
No, it rescheduling is a bad thing. The NASL was run with accountability in mind, that was why they had the deposits, and the team rules in place. If you're not accountable, you don't deserve to play in the NASL. Sjow was able to make accommodations, so clearly it isn't in the realm of impossibility.
They made the right choice, sucks that July had to wake up at 4 am and couldn't even play, and if I was in that situation I would have taken the walkover as well.
Edit: NASL was already being lenient, extending the grace period from 45 minutes to 4 hours. That's more than enough leniency for such a demanding schedule.
On April 14 2011 09:01 Diaz wrote: I thought NASL was happening live I guess this means it's a live cast only but games were played before?
All the games are casted by the commentators as the games are played live by the players. NASL then edits the footage they record in the studio, edits it, then broadcasts the same night. So basically, games are played same day, just a bit earlier in the day.
I don't like this too much The thought that the event is happening as I'm watching just makes it way more exciting for some reason
Darn, was rather lookin fowward to that match. I think NASL handled it well. July was a trooper and I think everything was done and it just turned out to be a miscommunication. Nobody is at fault here however I do have a concern.
What is to stop this from happening a lot? I mean NASL's schedule is enormous, there are so so many games and with so much else happening for players to also compete in, I hope things like this aren't a common occurrence. You have to admit NASL's task is pretty daunting, making sure that both players can show up to every single one of their matches. Has to be a scheduling nightmare. I'll stay pretty positive about it for now though. The season is gonna be epic :D
On April 14 2011 08:30 akalarry wrote: out of curiosity,
is 4am when the koreans normally play for these online tournaments like tsl and nasl?
what time is it for the europeans and north americans?
In this scenario 4am Korean Time is around 9pm Swedish time.
The finals of DH finished at 21:45~ Swedish time (45 minutes, so that's fine). Whitera then spent approximately 15 minutes on stage signing autographs, pictures. Afterwards he went to the DH afterparty.
It's entirely his fault. He easily had enough time to play.
LOL, if that's the case, there should be no argument about Whitera's loss at all. July wakes up at 4 am and waits for 4 hours, while Whitera goes to a party and gets drunk. Glad some other TL members aren't running NASL. Easy call.
Yup, this makes sense and there is evidence that White-Ra did indeed attend the after party.
We don't know how far ahead of time White-ra informed NASL of the conflict, and we don't know why White-ra wasn't able to be contacted. Its nice NASL gave us some information, but its not enough for people to vilify anyone or claim who was more at fault.
On April 14 2011 09:27 RonaldRayGun wrote: This is saddening. Poor Ra.
Poor White Ra, had every chance to make the matches but attended an afterparty and ignored communications instead. Poor White Ra inconvenienced everyone and made Julyzerg wait 4 hours. Poor him.
On April 14 2011 09:06 BluePabs wrote: Lol, I was so happy when I read the first few pages and it was civil and very level-headed comments about the decision. Skip towards the end and it slips a bit.
Sucks but I'm really impressed with July for waking up so early and sticking around for so long. Also for NASL for making the tough, but right choice. When you have the studio, technicians, and staff scheduled to play the games and this happens it sucks. But allowing a reschedule would make them have to allow any reschedule in the future. And now this sets the bar for even the biggest matches of the night will not receive any preferential treatment.
Tough choice but the right one which makes me give even more respect to the people running the NASL.
As I said before, if you allowed reschedules only for big tournaments and some personal stuff (like member of the family dying, graduation, ....) it would be much better for viewers and NASL and would not create any precedent. Blind adherence to schedule, when rescheduling is easy and makes sense is a bad thing, not a good thing.
EDIT:typo fixed
No, it rescheduling is a bad thing. The NASL was run with accountability in mind, that was why they had the deposits, and the team rules in place. If you're not accountable, you don't deserve to play in the NASL. Sjow was able to make accommodations, so clearly it isn't in the realm of impossibility.
They made the right choice, sucks that July had to wake up at 4 am and couldn't even play, and if I was in that situation I would have taken the walkover as well.
Edit: NASL was already being lenient, extending the grace period from 45 minutes to 4 hours. That's more than enough leniency for such a demanding schedule.
I am not commenting on the forfeit. I think that was correct decision. Also to make it clear I am not talking about rescheduling when they were waiting for White-ra, at that point forfeit was correct decision. I am talking about rescheduling it few days beforehand (that of course assumes they knew about the conflict beforehand, if they did not then I have no problem), which should not be a problem.
EDIT:also 45 min grace period ended at the time when White-ra just finished playing DH finals. They extended not as courtesy, but because they knew that to be the case. That is why I am talking it was poor scheduling if they were informed about his DH attendance.
On April 14 2011 09:27 RonaldRayGun wrote: This is saddening. Poor Ra.
Poor White Ra, had every chance to make the matches but attended an afterparty and ignored communications instead. Poor White Ra inconvenienced everyone and made Julyzerg wait 4 hours. Poor him.
On April 14 2011 09:27 RonaldRayGun wrote: This is saddening. Poor Ra.
Poor White Ra, had every chance to make the matches but attended an afterparty and ignored communications instead. Poor White Ra inconvenienced everyone and made Julyzerg wait 4 hours. Poor him.
From the information here, it seems the action taken by the NASL was very reasonable. Scheduling problems happen and tough decisions must be made. This was a big ticket match though, so it's disapointing that we won't see it...
It sucks and white ra coulda showed up. But imo this could be avoided all together. Not like dreamhack came out of no where and they couldnt scheduale around it. Could have had the other groups play that didnt have players in dreamhack play on the days dreamhack were playing...and then when dreamhack was over just have the remaning groups play.(especially when 2 were in the same group)
Sure group a b c etc wouldnt play in order but as long as the there wasnt a day without casts it wouldnt matter.
Honestly now i really dont want to watch todays cast im tired and really only wanted to see that match up. I might pop on to see the moman game and maybe the sjow game but idk now.
On April 14 2011 09:27 RonaldRayGun wrote: This is saddening. Poor Ra.
Poor White Ra, had every chance to make the matches but attended an afterparty and ignored communications instead. Poor White Ra inconvenienced everyone and made Julyzerg wait 4 hours. Poor him.
Yes pitying him is strange. But the rest of your post makes so many assumptions. How do you know he ignored communications and not just missed them ? Also he actually had no chance to make the match on time as when the match was scheduled to start he was still playing MC. Maybe he assumed that since he missed the proper start of the match he forfeited and just went to the afterparty. Who knows...
On April 14 2011 09:27 RonaldRayGun wrote: This is saddening. Poor Ra.
Poor White Ra, had every chance to make the matches but attended an afterparty and ignored communications instead. Poor White Ra inconvenienced everyone and made Julyzerg wait 4 hours. Poor him.
Where is this info from?
Read my posts.
Your post doesn't have a source. It could be White-ra went and got drunk and forgot about the match. It could be he didn't think he could get to the match anyway so he went to the party before getting on a plane. We don't know any details except for anecdotes.
Rushing into a game in a foreign country, looking for a netcafe isn't a dream situation, after a loss in the finals from cheese on top of it. He was clearly upset with himself. The game between Morrow and Rainbow lagged like crazy..this might too(?)
On April 14 2011 09:27 RonaldRayGun wrote: This is saddening. Poor Ra.
Poor White Ra, had every chance to make the matches but attended an afterparty and ignored communications instead. Poor White Ra inconvenienced everyone and made Julyzerg wait 4 hours. Poor him.
Where is this info from?
Read my posts.
Your post doesn't have a source. It could be White-ra went and got drunk and forgot about the match. It could be he didn't think he could get to the match anyway so he went to the party before getting on a plane. We don't know any details except for anecdotes.
My friend was there...
In any case, if Whitera gets drunk and forgets about a game ... That's his own fault, isn't it?
On April 14 2011 09:27 RonaldRayGun wrote: This is saddening. Poor Ra.
Poor White Ra, had every chance to make the matches but attended an afterparty and ignored communications instead. Poor White Ra inconvenienced everyone and made Julyzerg wait 4 hours. Poor him.
Where is this info from?
Read my posts.
Your post doesn't have a source. It could be White-ra went and got drunk and forgot about the match. It could be he didn't think he could get to the match anyway so he went to the party before getting on a plane. We don't know any details except for anecdotes.
My friend was there...
In any case, if Whitera gets drunk and forgets about a game ... That's his own fault, isn't it?
In that case it would be his own fault. But since there hasn't been any confirmation on when he told NASL or why he possibly went to the party, I would reserve judgement until I had that information.
if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
On April 14 2011 09:53 maganez wrote: it's hard to call White-Ra and Naniwa "Pros" with such unprofessional attitudes. That's the reason people don't take seriously E-sports, what a shame.
Who's to say they aren't pros? They are good enough to play for money and for your entertainment. That should be enough.
Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
This was the only interesting game today, so I won't be watching without it.
Proof, or are we still under the speculation that this is totally a scheduling problem? :D
The point is not whether White-ra went to the party I hope that is already established as a fact. But that does not say anything about why he did he decided not to play. And it is scheduling problem anyway, because it was scheduled on the same day and even on the same hour as DH tournament.
I'm going to have to agree with the rest of the guys here: the NASL should have ironclad rules regarding the forfeiting of a player. I don't care if July, on his OWN accord, asked the tournament officials to extend the wait - Ra should have been forfeited immediately after the grace period. Instead, it almost seems like NASL are shirking responsibility and gave the decision to July - which ultimately leads to certain people unhappy and/or placing value judgments on July's decision rather than on the rules of the tournament. Thankfully, it seems like 99% of the people here on TL are rational (with the exception of one idiot and a few trolls). Either way, NOT fair for July. On the other hand, until we receive more information about this, it doesn't seem fair for either NASL or Ra. If the NASL can't reschedule due to certain reasons, I don't expect them to bend the rules for just one player; Ra, until we get confirmation that he DID indeed blow off the games to go party, can't be blamed as well.
No shows happen all the time in other tournaments - the FXOpens for example. Someone doesn't show, they wait a little bit, and then it's a walkover. TheSTC couldn't get a localizer to work at a PC Cafe, his internet was down at home - none of which was his fault, and he still promptly informed the organizers. They understandably waited a bit, but nonetheless awarded the walkover to his opponent. The only difference here is that there are viewers who are paying customers - but it's not like this is the only match. Plenty of people are talking about how great a deal it is (25 bucks for 3 months of matches). One less match can't hurt.
Edit:
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
This was the only interesting game today, so I won't be watching without it.
Give the win to White-Ra after they couldn't even contact him? Are you kidding? So one guy who shows up to the match, waits 4 hours, and the other guy doesn't. We still don't know what extenuating circumstances Ra encountered - there are people in this thread who apparently have relatives who partied with Ra after Dreamhack. If that's the truth, and if this match was indeed scheduled during that time period, it's completely Ra's fault.
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Proof, or are we still under the speculation that this is totally a scheduling problem? :D
The point is not whether White-ra went to the party I hope that is already established as a fact. But that does not say anything about why he did he decided not to play. And it is scheduling problem anyway, because it was scheduled on the same day and even on the same hour as DH tournament.
Yeah. Finding a time when a Korean, two Americans, as well as Whitera ... As well as all the other players on the same day for NASL Day 1-2 to play and streamline efficiently so it can be broadcasted in a polished manner sure is easy.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
yeah if the nhl and nba can rearrange their "match times" when the Olympics are running...nasl should beable to reschedule for big lans...
On April 14 2011 09:53 maganez wrote: it's hard to call White-Ra and Naniwa "Pros" with such unprofessional attitudes. That's the reason people don't take seriously E-sports, what a shame.
Naniwa maybe, but White-Ra? No. From what I've heard from EVERYONE in the community, he's a very nice guy and professional, and this is the first and only thing of this nature that I've heard from him. Yeah it's his fault but to criticize his integrity over one thing is something completely different and it's unwarranted imo. Also Nani is doing a good job cleaning up his act as of late.
Sounds like a reasonable decision. Shit happens, and NASL runs on a tight schedule with casters waiting on hold for hours and JulyZerg himself losing a ton of valuable sleep.
Considering that White-Ra is such a great player and such a nice guy, I think he'll just brush off the incident like nothing and boss-mode his way through the rest of the group stages. Heck, perhaps White-Ra's forfeit will end up like Dreiven's BBQ incident from TSL1.
On April 14 2011 09:53 maganez wrote: it's hard to call White-Ra and Naniwa "Pros" with such unprofessional attitudes. That's the reason people don't take seriously E-sports, what a shame.
Naniwa maybe, but White-Ra? No. From what I've heard from EVERYONE in the community, he's a very nice guy and professional, and this is the first and only thing of this nature that I've heard from him. Yeah it's his fault but to criticize his integrity over one thing is something completely different and it's unwarranted imo. Also Nani is doing a good job cleaning up his act as of late.
Ra has been dirtying his squeaky clean image lately with a lot of BM after losing like calling his opponent's strats brainless.
Proof, or are we still under the speculation that this is totally a scheduling problem? :D
The point is not whether White-ra went to the party I hope that is already established as a fact. But that does not say anything about why he did he decided not to play. And it is scheduling problem anyway, because it was scheduled on the same day and even on the same hour as DH tournament.
Yeah. Finding a time when a Korean, two Americans, as well as Whitera ... As well as all the other players on the same day for NASL Day 1-2 to play and streamline efficiently so it can be broadcasted in a polished manner sure is easy.
Wait, what?
Should I again requote 3 easy solutions to rescheduling problem that I already posted ? I will use just one. Why not let White-ra and July play earlier and cast from replays. I highly doubt White-ra and July would be incapable of finding the time to play, especially since EU time and KST have a lot of day overlap and you just need to find one referee to be present for the game, which can be any trustworthy European, Korean or even American and it would not be hard to find such a person.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
Because they have schedules too and can't just go willy nilly and cast the games in a random order? Doyou actually have any idea how stressful it is to run a massive tournament like the NASL? Look at the sheer amount of games they have to organize, cast, record, produce and stream... Then they also have to communicate with all the players, if everyone comes up with some excuse not to play their games this tournament will start to fall apart real soon...
If you run a tournament this big you have to have strict rules and enforce them, with waiting 4hours they already did more than many other tournaments would have done.
Giving people the option is to get a W.O is pretty stupid in a non bracket league where rescheduling shouldn't be a problem or is it just me thinking that way ? It's not like the winner of July vs White-Ra had to play someone specific considering this is still in the pool stage...
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
On April 14 2011 09:53 maganez wrote: it's hard to call White-Ra and Naniwa "Pros" with such unprofessional attitudes. That's the reason people don't take seriously E-sports, what a shame.
Naniwa maybe, but White-Ra? No. From what I've heard from EVERYONE in the community, he's a very nice guy and professional, and this is the first and only thing of this nature that I've heard from him. Yeah it's his fault but to criticize his integrity over one thing is something completely different and it's unwarranted imo. Also Nani is doing a good job cleaning up his act as of late.
Ra has been dirtying his squeaky clean image lately with a lot of BM after losing like calling his opponent's strats brainless.
He's been BM against Koreans for a while now. I don't like or dislike him for it (making comments how everyone just cheeses in the GSL a few months back, then actually going to Korea to whine about 4 gating, blah blah) - whatever. Only his opinions of course, but we're all human beings. I don't give a shit if he's squeaky clean or not, as he's still a good player.
I completely agree that NASL should just be automatically awarding match wins to opponents of players who are not showing up to their games, and not making it a choice. These players who are missing matches need to step up - it's bad for the the league and the fans who are missing out on the games.
Proof, or are we still under the speculation that this is totally a scheduling problem? :D
The point is not whether White-ra went to the party I hope that is already established as a fact. But that does not say anything about why he did he decided not to play. And it is scheduling problem anyway, because it was scheduled on the same day and even on the same hour as DH tournament.
Yeah. Finding a time when a Korean, two Americans, as well as Whitera ... As well as all the other players on the same day for NASL Day 1-2 to play and streamline efficiently so it can be broadcasted in a polished manner sure is easy.
Wait, what?
Should I again requote 3 easy solutions to rescheduling problem that I already posted ? I will use just one. Why not let White-ra and July play earlier and cast from replays. I highly doubt White-ra and July would be incapable of finding the time to play, especially since EU time and KST have a lot of day overlap and you just need to find one referee to be present for the game, which can be any trustworthy European, Korean or even American and it would not be hard to find such a person.
Clearly the NASL organisers have a set way to do things. It is by this set method that they're doing it. I assume the players had to sign some sort of agreement towards the terms and regulations (a EULA/ToS, if you will) of the tournament in order to participate.
On April 14 2011 09:53 maganez wrote: it's hard to call White-Ra and Naniwa "Pros" with such unprofessional attitudes. That's the reason people don't take seriously E-sports, what a shame.
Mhm, and pro sports players are always so professional, right? I mean, Dennis Rodman, that guy was totally squeaky clean.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
Because they have schedules too and can't just go willy nilly and cast the games in a random order? Doyou actually have any idea how stressful it is to run a massive tournament like the NASL? Look at the sheer amount of games they have to organize, cast, record, produce and stream... Then they also have to communicate with all the players, if everyone comes up with some excuse not to play their games this tournament will start to fall apart real soon...
If you run a tournament this big you have to have strict rules and enforce them, with waiting 4hours they already did more than many other tournaments would have done.
Theres a big difference between changing the scheduale for every player. And schedualing a match to be played when you know a major lan is happening on that day and your hoping that x player doesnt make it to y part of the tourny or theirs going to be a schedualing conflict....
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
On April 14 2011 09:53 maganez wrote: it's hard to call White-Ra and Naniwa "Pros" with such unprofessional attitudes. That's the reason people don't take seriously E-sports, what a shame.
Naniwa maybe, but White-Ra? No. From what I've heard from EVERYONE in the community, he's a very nice guy and professional, and this is the first and only thing of this nature that I've heard from him. Yeah it's his fault but to criticize his integrity over one thing is something completely different and it's unwarranted imo. Also Nani is doing a good job cleaning up his act as of late.
Ra has been dirtying his squeaky clean image lately with a lot of BM after losing like calling his opponent's strats brainless.
Really, I know he kind of BMs his opponents in PvP, but he basically says the same thing before the game and after it, just after the game it can be considered BM . But I did not hear him calling opponents brainless. On the other hand some strategies are brainless, but it is still BM.
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
NASL also gave a perfectly reasonable explanation in their news.
Discussing but deciding against postponing the game because of their ass-tight schedule, contacting Dreamhack in order to give White-Ra the choice to play from there after the event, attempting to contact White-Ra himself, extending the waiting period to 4 hours.
And on top of that - again - Sjow managed to get his game played.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
Because they have schedules too and can't just go willy nilly and cast the games in a random order? Doyou actually have any idea how stressful it is to run a massive tournament like the NASL? Look at the sheer amount of games they have to organize, cast, record, produce and stream... Then they also have to communicate with all the players, if everyone comes up with some excuse not to play their games this tournament will start to fall apart real soon...
If you run a tournament this big you have to have strict rules and enforce them, with waiting 4hours they already did more than many other tournaments would have done.
THIS.
Everyone thinks that NASL can be accomodating, but don't ask the same coordination of say.. Dreamhack?? Blows my frickin mind... it's near impossible to reschedule one thing because it requires changing MORE than one thing in a tournament. You move one match, suddenly a whole heap of matches, casting, caster-hire periods, live-staff hire periods, recording, editing, production times..they ALL have to be changed and updated and websites have ot be updated and other scheduling and even tournament viewing dates have to be changed...
No. Unlike other dumb TL posters, I don't have the expectation of NASL that they are required to reschedule entire tournaments because one 'pro' decides he wants to party it up while other REAL pros wait 4 hours on the line to compete in one of the biggest SC2 tournaments we've seen this side of the world.
Proof, or are we still under the speculation that this is totally a scheduling problem? :D
The point is not whether White-ra went to the party I hope that is already established as a fact. But that does not say anything about why he did he decided not to play. And it is scheduling problem anyway, because it was scheduled on the same day and even on the same hour as DH tournament.
Yeah. Finding a time when a Korean, two Americans, as well as Whitera ... As well as all the other players on the same day for NASL Day 1-2 to play and streamline efficiently so it can be broadcasted in a polished manner sure is easy.
Wait, what?
Should I again requote 3 easy solutions to rescheduling problem that I already posted ? I will use just one. Why not let White-ra and July play earlier and cast from replays. I highly doubt White-ra and July would be incapable of finding the time to play, especially since EU time and KST have a lot of day overlap and you just need to find one referee to be present for the game, which can be any trustworthy European, Korean or even American and it would not be hard to find such a person.
Clearly the NASL organisers have a set way to do things. It is by this set method that they're doing it. I assume the players had to sign some sort of agreement towards the terms and regulations (a EULA/ToS, if you will) of the tournament in order to participate.
What the hell is wrong with you people?
And if you note I am not saying the forfeit decision was bad, just that their scheduling rules/decisions are bad. If they had more flexible scheduling decisions(easily achievable), but still precisely written and enforced, the end-result would be better for viewers and for NASL.
Proof, or are we still under the speculation that this is totally a scheduling problem? :D
The point is not whether White-ra went to the party I hope that is already established as a fact. But that does not say anything about why he did he decided not to play. And it is scheduling problem anyway, because it was scheduled on the same day and even on the same hour as DH tournament.
Yeah. Finding a time when a Korean, two Americans, as well as Whitera ... As well as all the other players on the same day for NASL Day 1-2 to play and streamline efficiently so it can be broadcasted in a polished manner sure is easy.
Wait, what?
Should I again requote 3 easy solutions to rescheduling problem that I already posted ? I will use just one. Why not let White-ra and July play earlier and cast from replays. I highly doubt White-ra and July would be incapable of finding the time to play, especially since EU time and KST have a lot of day overlap and you just need to find one referee to be present for the game, which can be any trustworthy European, Korean or even American and it would not be hard to find such a person.
Hell, playing it a couple of days earlier, both players could be on KR and have no lag. That would've been the obvious choice really.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
It's stated in their rules that they have a 45 minute time to get on or they get a forfeit.
July gave white-ra 4 hours.
They don't have to be extra flexable and break their rules for 1 players.
Damn i was looking forward to this as the most epic game of the whole opening series! Such a shame, but i guess it's good to see the way that the NASL approached it. It just seems like poor organisation by White-Ra as SjoW seemed to be able to make it happen. It is unfortunate to hear and definitely puts a damper on it.
The fact they wanted FOUR hours, and July had woken up at 4am and waiting FOUR hours from then to play his matches is way beyond the call of duty in this case. Thank you for understanding the community's desire to see these games! Such a shame it couldn't work out
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
Of course it's easier for SjoW! He lives here in Sweden, he has access to a suitable computer late a night - he probably just played from home. White-Ra is in a foreign country, he probaby thought he would be able to use the Dreamhack computers but that wasn't possible, so what's he gonna do? Play from a laptop? I think it's understandable he couldn't find a computer to play on.
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
There's actually evidence that points to the contrary, but you're right - we can't judge until we know for sure what happened.
On the other hand, do you think it's fair to July to force a reschedule after a voluntary wait of 4 hours? Either they reschedule immediately after a short time frame, or they award the walkover. 4 hours is bullshit. However, if there are factors which disallow rescheduling (as apparently there are), then tough luck. It's not NASL's fault that they can't reschedule, and Ra knew this.
At the end of the day, as long as we don't know what happened on Ra's end, blame can't be placed. You can be the optimist and think that Ra had good reasons - others can also think that he somehow forgot and went to party.
Sounds reasonable and fair to me. However, I suspect some form of biasness? I don't think some unknown player would be accorded to the same treatment that WhiteRa had (i.e 4 hours of waiting).
Proof, or are we still under the speculation that this is totally a scheduling problem? :D
The point is not whether White-ra went to the party I hope that is already established as a fact. But that does not say anything about why he did he decided not to play. And it is scheduling problem anyway, because it was scheduled on the same day and even on the same hour as DH tournament.
Yeah. Finding a time when a Korean, two Americans, as well as Whitera ... As well as all the other players on the same day for NASL Day 1-2 to play and streamline efficiently so it can be broadcasted in a polished manner sure is easy.
Wait, what?
Should I again requote 3 easy solutions to rescheduling problem that I already posted ? I will use just one. Why not let White-ra and July play earlier and cast from replays. I highly doubt White-ra and July would be incapable of finding the time to play, especially since EU time and KST have a lot of day overlap and you just need to find one referee to be present for the game, which can be any trustworthy European, Korean or even American and it would not be hard to find such a person.
Clearly the NASL organisers have a set way to do things. It is by this set method that they're doing it. I assume the players had to sign some sort of agreement towards the terms and regulations (a EULA/ToS, if you will) of the tournament in order to participate.
What the hell is wrong with you people?
And if you note I am not saying the forfeit decision was bad, just that their scheduling rules/decisions are bad. If they had more flexible scheduling decisions(easily achievable), but still precisely written and enforced, the end-result would be better for viewers and for NASL.
So tell me this:
Artosis has to cast the GSL. He plays in the NASL. Like Julyzerg he has to wake up at 4am for his game. He also has to cast the GSL, possibly, on the same day. He's going to have to wake up at 4am for it. In a tournament "this big" you cannot be flexible for one person ... When one person is special, other people demand that special treatment: then you get a bunch of whining little shits who want to play when they're feeling up to it.
The scheduling may be bad - but if every other player and their mother can make the times, Whitera should be able to. Hell, SjoW made sure he was able to play and he even stayed to the end of the DH finals...
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
Of course it's easier for SjoW! He lives here in Sweden, he has access to a suitable computer late a night - he probably just played from home. White-Ra is in a foreign country, he probaby thought he would be able to use the Dreamhack computers but that wasn't possible, so what's he gonna do? Play from a laptop? I think it's understandable he couldn't find a computer to play on.
If you would've read the OP you could've seen that SjoW played from a LAN center close to the venue that Ra could have played at also. The problem was not that he couldn't find a computer, it's that no one was able to reach him for 4 hours. Please, read the OP before commenting
On April 14 2011 10:22 PraetorianX wrote Of course it's easier for SjoW! He lives here in Sweden, he has access to a suitable computer late a night - he probably just played from home. White-Ra is in a foreign country, he probaby thought he would be able to use the Dreamhack computers but that wasn't possible, so what's he gonna do? Play from a laptop? I think it's understandable he couldn't find a computer to play on.
sjow played from a lan center that was open late, im sure he would have had no problem telling white ra where the lan center was, if you fully read the explanation post you should have known that.
"SjoW had a similar situation to White-Ra as he was also participating in the event. SjoW informed us that there was a LAN center close by to the Dreamhack venue that the matches could be played from. SjoW managed to make arrangements to show up in order to play his match. After two emails and a phone call to White-Ra, I heard no response."
"SjoW had a similar situation to White-Ra as he was also participating in the event. SjoW informed us that there was a LAN center close by to the Dreamhack venue that the matches could be played from. SjoW managed to make arrangements to show up in order to play his match. After two emails and a phone call to White-Ra, I heard no response."
After reading this in the OP, how can anyone claim that White-Ra is not at fault here?
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
If there was going to be a conflict in a player's schedule, it's their responsibility to try to work around it. July woke up in the middle of the night in time for his match, and waited 4 hours. This is pretty disrespectful to July, and White-Ra really let down his fans (myself included) with this. If he is a professional, there is absolutely NO excuse not to be on top of his own schedule.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
In light of this, the whole thing seems much more reasonable. Since the rules state 45 minutes, and white-ra's game ended 3 minutes before that, he obviously couldn't get there in time, so he simply didn't show up. That's my theory anyway.
hey guys listen and stop being so dumb about this. Imagine a studio full of people, people investing a lot of money into this etc. Then White Ra decides to go to an after party instead of playing his match after having July wait 4 hours along with everyone at NASL.
Just imagine for one instance you are sitting waiting for 4 hours, July is waiting for 4 hours, this is people's livings on the line here. white Ra is at an after party in Sweden during this.
And you are mad at NASL for not bending over more?
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30, and at that time the Dreamhack computers were packed down and the internet disconnected, etc. So what's White-Ra gonna do? I don't feel bad for July, waking up a couple hours early is not an amazing feat and I'm sure it was less stressful than what White-Ra was going through. I feel bad for White-Ra, because NASL weren't smart enough to make a proper schedule. They should have known White-Ra had a good chance of making it to the finals, so their schedule wasn't even realistic. Bad schedule. BAD schedule. Not White-Ra's fault, not even a little bit.
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
Of course it's easier for SjoW! He lives here in Sweden, he has access to a suitable computer late a night - he probably just played from home. White-Ra is in a foreign country, he probaby thought he would be able to use the Dreamhack computers but that wasn't possible, so what's he gonna do? Play from a laptop? I think it's understandable he couldn't find a computer to play on.
Is it really that difficult for you to read the OP before posting? If you did and your comprehension isn't up to snuff, just reread it before saying silly, baseless things. I for one am glad that NASL is setting up a reasonably rigid system especially with people waking up at all hours of the day to play their games.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30, and at that time the Dreamhack computers were packed down and the internet disconnected, etc. So what's White-Ra gonna do? I don't feel bad for July, waking up a couple hours early is not an amazing feat and I'm sure it was less stressful than what White-Ra was going through. I feel bad for White-Ra, because NASL weren't smart enough to make a proper schedule. They should have known White-Ra had a good chance of making it to the finals, so their schedule wasn't even realistic. Bad schedule. BAD schedule. Not White-Ra's fault, not even a little bit.
yeah dude except white ra went to an afterparty instead of playing his match
if only they had foreseen white ra turning off his phone and partying instead of playing his match like a pro.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30, and at that time the Dreamhack computers were packed down and the internet disconnected, etc. So what's White-Ra gonna do? I don't feel bad for July, waking up a couple hours early is not an amazing feat and I'm sure it was less stressful than what White-Ra was going through. I feel bad for White-Ra, because NASL weren't smart enough to make a proper schedule. They should have known White-Ra had a good chance of making it to the finals, so their schedule wasn't even realistic. Bad schedule. BAD schedule. Not White-Ra's fault, not even a little bit.
SjoW. Was. Under. The. Same. Conditions. He. However. Made. It. To. A. Lan. To. Play. His. Game.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30,
It's great how you make wild assumptions in every post without actually having any idea how it actually went down... Totally contrary to you post some people stated earlier that he was tehre for ~15minutes after the event for autographs/interviews and then went to the afterparty
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30, and at that time the Dreamhack computers were packed down and the internet disconnected, etc. So what's White-Ra gonna do? I don't feel bad for July, waking up a couple hours early is not an amazing feat and I'm sure it was less stressful than what White-Ra was going through. I feel bad for White-Ra, because NASL weren't smart enough to make a proper schedule. They should have known White-Ra had a good chance of making it to the finals, so their schedule wasn't even realistic. Bad schedule. BAD schedule. Not White-Ra's fault, not even a little bit.
If you would have read the responses that I and two other people posted to your previous post, you would've seen that Ra had the ability to go to a LAN center with SjoW to play. You don't feel bad for July? He had to wait for four hours to play his game! And he didn't even get to play it! You're just making excuses for White-Ra, and if you would read the OP you would see that White-Ra could have found a way around them because SjoW certainly did.
White-Ra went to a PARTY instead of playing his MATCH.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30,
It's great how you make wild assumptions in every post without actually having any idea how it actually went down... Totally contrary to you post some people stated earlier that he was tehre for ~15minutes after the event for autographs/interviews and then went to the afterparty
and again, Sjow.
But according to the NASL rules he had already forfeited the game by not being there 45 minutes after it should have started (which would have been impossible because of when the finals finished), so he did the right thing. Unless sjow had 3 minutes to get to a suitable computer after his game ended, the situation is not comparable at all.
Proof, or are we still under the speculation that this is totally a scheduling problem? :D
The point is not whether White-ra went to the party I hope that is already established as a fact. But that does not say anything about why he did he decided not to play. And it is scheduling problem anyway, because it was scheduled on the same day and even on the same hour as DH tournament.
Yeah. Finding a time when a Korean, two Americans, as well as Whitera ... As well as all the other players on the same day for NASL Day 1-2 to play and streamline efficiently so it can be broadcasted in a polished manner sure is easy.
Wait, what?
Should I again requote 3 easy solutions to rescheduling problem that I already posted ? I will use just one. Why not let White-ra and July play earlier and cast from replays. I highly doubt White-ra and July would be incapable of finding the time to play, especially since EU time and KST have a lot of day overlap and you just need to find one referee to be present for the game, which can be any trustworthy European, Korean or even American and it would not be hard to find such a person.
Clearly the NASL organisers have a set way to do things. It is by this set method that they're doing it. I assume the players had to sign some sort of agreement towards the terms and regulations (a EULA/ToS, if you will) of the tournament in order to participate.
What the hell is wrong with you people?
And if you note I am not saying the forfeit decision was bad, just that their scheduling rules/decisions are bad. If they had more flexible scheduling decisions(easily achievable), but still precisely written and enforced, the end-result would be better for viewers and for NASL.
So tell me this:
Artosis has to cast the GSL. He plays in the NASL. Like Julyzerg he has to wake up at 4am for his game. He also has to cast the GSL, possibly, on the same day. He's going to have to wake up at 4am for it. In a tournament "this big" you cannot be flexible for one person ... When one person is special, other people demand that special treatment: then you get a bunch of whining little shits who want to play when they're feeling up to it.
The scheduling may be bad - but if every other player and their mother can make the times, Whitera should be able to. Hell, SjoW made sure he was able to play and he even stayed to the end of the DH finals...
I did not say they should make exceptions to White-ra alone. They should make their rules strict and clear but allow reasonable rescheduling according to rules. By reasonable I mean if they know week in advance that one player has big likelihood of not being able to play on the set date because of important circumstances (conflict with big tournament, death in the family,...) but would be able to play for example 3 days before, to just allow players to play it at different date and cast from replays. This would not happen too often and is not some organisational nightmare.
As I said no exceptions, you can make rules so they allow rare rescheduling that is according to rules and therefore there is no preferential treatment.
And how do you guys know that White-Ra was even aware of this LAN center? How do you know he turned off his phone, maybe the battery died? You just assume he was out getting drunk and not giving a damn.
They bended the rules to allow him to play by 3 hours and 15 minutes. How the hell can't you answer your phone or whatever all that time ? Party probably was realy realy fun
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30,
It's great how you make wild assumptions in every post without actually having any idea how it actually went down... Totally contrary to you post some people stated earlier that he was tehre for ~15minutes after the event for autographs/interviews and then went to the afterparty
and again, Sjow.
But according to the NASL rules he had already forfeited the game by not being there 45 minutes after it should have started (which would have been impossible because of when the finals finished), so he did the right thing. Unless sjow had 3 minutes to get to a suitable computer after his game ended, the situation is not comparable at all.
SjoW stayed to the end too.
Then again, I don't think SjoW is old enough to drink so obviously he can't go to an afterparty...
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
Of course it's easier for SjoW! He lives here in Sweden, he has access to a suitable computer late a night - he probably just played from home. White-Ra is in a foreign country, he probaby thought he would be able to use the Dreamhack computers but that wasn't possible, so what's he gonna do? Play from a laptop? I think it's understandable he couldn't find a computer to play on.
Someone said earlier in the thread Sjow played from an internet cafe. Ra could easily have done the same thing. He chose to party.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30,
It's great how you make wild assumptions in every post without actually having any idea how it actually went down... Totally contrary to you post some people stated earlier that he was tehre for ~15minutes after the event for autographs/interviews and then went to the afterparty
and again, Sjow.
But according to the NASL rules he had already forfeited the game by not being there 45 minutes after it should have started (which would have been impossible because of when the finals finished), so he did the right thing. Unless sjow had 3 minutes to get to a suitable computer after his game ended, the situation is not comparable at all.
he did the right thing not getting in touch with NASL and instead partying. whereas Sjow actually acted professionally and went to a local lan and played his match. Instead White-Ra dealt with it by completely ignoring NASL
Name 1 thing about going to an afterparty that even speaks about an attempt to play his match.
On April 14 2011 10:33 PraetorianX wrote: And how do you guys know that White-Ra was even aware of this LAN center? How do you know he turned off his phone, maybe the battery died? You just assume he was out getting drunk and not giving a damn.
See now you're just making up random assumptions with no basis in fact.
Praetorian is really acting like a little kid here. White-Ra was subject to the exact same conditions as SjoW, who managed to find a Lan center and play.
Not only that, White-Ra did not contact them for over FOUR HOURS. There was more than enough time in between all that to say, OH i'm done, I'll be at a lan in the next 2 hours even. I'm sure NASL would have understood. He DIDNT make any contact. How can you be supporting White-Ra's decision here?
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30, and at that time the Dreamhack computers were packed down and the internet disconnected, etc. So what's White-Ra gonna do? I don't feel bad for July, waking up a couple hours early is not an amazing feat and I'm sure it was less stressful than what White-Ra was going through. I feel bad for White-Ra, because NASL weren't smart enough to make a proper schedule. They should have known White-Ra had a good chance of making it to the finals, so their schedule wasn't even realistic. Bad schedule. BAD schedule. Not White-Ra's fault, not even a little bit.
Are you saying that White-Ra, as a player, has ZERO responsibility to be aware of his own possible schedule conflicts and try to make arrangements ahead of time to reschedule? He is a professional. He should act like one. NASL went above and beyond giving him such a long grace period and trying to call and email him. Most physical sports would have just handed him the loss, and possibly more severe penalties, after a much shorter time.
People are assuming that after being told there was a LAN center nearby, White-ra still refused to go there and didn't answer his phone knowing he had a match. This seems more like a miscommunication or that he had to catch a plane, but people are taking it as intentional with no evidence.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30,
It's great how you make wild assumptions in every post without actually having any idea how it actually went down... Totally contrary to you post some people stated earlier that he was tehre for ~15minutes after the event for autographs/interviews and then went to the afterparty
and again, Sjow.
But according to the NASL rules he had already forfeited the game by not being there 45 minutes after it should have started (which would have been impossible because of when the finals finished), so he did the right thing. Unless sjow had 3 minutes to get to a suitable computer after his game ended, the situation is not comparable at all.
SjoW stayed to the end too.
Then again, I don't think SjoW is old enough to drink so obviously he can't go to an afterparty...
On April 14 2011 10:33 PraetorianX wrote: And how do you guys know that White-Ra was even aware of this LAN center? How do you know he turned off his phone, maybe the battery died? You just assume he was out getting drunk and not giving a damn.
Maybe he slipped on a banana peel, knocked his head and went unconscious for 4 hours!
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30,
It's great how you make wild assumptions in every post without actually having any idea how it actually went down... Totally contrary to you post some people stated earlier that he was tehre for ~15minutes after the event for autographs/interviews and then went to the afterparty
and again, Sjow.
But according to the NASL rules he had already forfeited the game by not being there 45 minutes after it should have started (which would have been impossible because of when the finals finished), so he did the right thing. Unless sjow had 3 minutes to get to a suitable computer after his game ended, the situation is not comparable at all.
accept for the fact that the NASL went out of their way to contact him over and over for 4 hours to try to tell him that he could play his match. still his fault imo.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30,
It's great how you make wild assumptions in every post without actually having any idea how it actually went down... Totally contrary to you post some people stated earlier that he was tehre for ~15minutes after the event for autographs/interviews and then went to the afterparty
and again, Sjow.
But according to the NASL rules he had already forfeited the game by not being there 45 minutes after it should have started (which would have been impossible because of when the finals finished), so he did the right thing. Unless sjow had 3 minutes to get to a suitable computer after his game ended, the situation is not comparable at all.
SjoW stayed to the end too.
Then again, I don't think SjoW is old enough to drink so obviously he can't go to an afterparty...
On April 14 2011 10:35 Spacemanspiff wrote: People are assuming that after being told there was a LAN center nearby, White-ra still refused to go there and didn't answer his phone knowing he had a match. This seems more like a miscommunication or that he had to catch a plane, but people are taking it as intentional with no evidence.
Dissapointing descision by NASL. Apparantly they were aware that there is a possibility that whitera cant make it, but nevertheless they didnt rescheduled the match. Giving the choice to July is just stupid.
On April 14 2011 10:35 Spacemanspiff wrote: People are assuming that after being told there was a LAN center nearby, White-ra still refused to go there and didn't answer his phone knowing he had a match. This seems more like a miscommunication or that he had to catch a plane, but people are taking it as intentional with no evidence.
rofl, again the attempt
White ra made absolutely no attempt to play his match
How can you be upset in the least bit he got DQed? No phone, no email, no internet pm, he was partying while july/nasl sat around for 4 hours wondering where he was. NASL made the correct decision
On April 14 2011 10:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Praetorian is really acting like a little kid here. White-Ra was subject to the exact same conditions as SjoW, who managed to find a Lan center and play.
Not only that, White-Ra did not contact them for over FOUR HOURS. There was more than enough time in between all that to say, OH i'm done, I'll be at a lan in the next 2 hours even. I'm sure NASL would have understood. He DIDNT make any contact. How can you be supporting White-Ra's decision here?
SjoW played his last game hours before White-Ra. He had a long time to prepare. At the scheduled time, White-Ra was in-game with MC. So even from the start, it was literally impossible for him to make it to the scheduled time. So you can't compare the situation to SjoW's, it's completely different.
This is just very unfortunate and something that sometimes would be hard to avoid in a game-packed league like the NASL. It is what it is. Is there anyone who didn't see this coming though?
On April 14 2011 10:37 mdb wrote: Dissapointing descision by NASL. Apparantly they were aware that there is a possibility that whitera cant make it, but nevertheless they didnt rescheduled the match. Giving the choice to July is just stupid.
why is it never the players fault for entering two conflicting tournaments knowing they wouldent be able to play if they made it to the finals...?
On April 14 2011 10:37 mdb wrote: Dissapointing descision by NASL. Apparantly they were aware that there is a possibility that whitera cant make it, but nevertheless they didnt rescheduled the match. Giving the choice to July is just stupid.
It's a schedule, that involves running a studio, hiring employees, etc. Do you not see how many matches they have a day? They can't just reschedule because white ra wants to party instead of play his match, the real world doesn't work that way.
He applied to be in the league, and accepted. Even paying a deposit.
He acted unprofessional in not trying to honor that contract. Imagine if you get hired to (these guys get paid to be in the league), for a job. And instead of showing up party. How can you honestly blame NASL?
On April 14 2011 10:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Praetorian is really acting like a little kid here. White-Ra was subject to the exact same conditions as SjoW, who managed to find a Lan center and play.
Not only that, White-Ra did not contact them for over FOUR HOURS. There was more than enough time in between all that to say, OH i'm done, I'll be at a lan in the next 2 hours even. I'm sure NASL would have understood. He DIDNT make any contact. How can you be supporting White-Ra's decision here?
SjoW played his last game hours before White-Ra. He had a long time to prepare. At the scheduled time, White-Ra was in-game with MC. So even from the start, it was literally impossible for him to make it to the scheduled time. So you can't compare the situation to SjoW's, it's completely different.
Sjow was on stage at the end of the dreamhack event.
He probably mastered the art of teleportation or something.
On April 14 2011 10:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Praetorian is really acting like a little kid here. White-Ra was subject to the exact same conditions as SjoW, who managed to find a Lan center and play.
Not only that, White-Ra did not contact them for over FOUR HOURS. There was more than enough time in between all that to say, OH i'm done, I'll be at a lan in the next 2 hours even. I'm sure NASL would have understood. He DIDNT make any contact. How can you be supporting White-Ra's decision here?
SjoW played his last game hours before White-Ra. He had a long time to prepare. At the scheduled time, White-Ra was in-game with MC. So even from the start, it was literally impossible for him to make it to the scheduled time. So you can't compare the situation to SjoW's, it's completely different.
The best practice for a tournament is to play ladder games, and not the best players in the world right? :D:D:D:D
Oh, we also need to mention that Whitera has an iPhone. If you have an iPhone you'll know you can get updates when you get emails, facebook messages, text messages etc.
On April 14 2011 10:37 mdb wrote: Dissapointing descision by NASL. Apparantly they were aware that there is a possibility that whitera cant make it, but nevertheless they didnt rescheduled the match. Giving the choice to July is just stupid.
why is it never the players fault for entering two conflicting tournaments knowing they wouldent be able to play if they made it to the finals...?
Or at least CONTACT one of the organizations and try to work something out?
On April 14 2011 10:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Praetorian is really acting like a little kid here. White-Ra was subject to the exact same conditions as SjoW, who managed to find a Lan center and play.
Not only that, White-Ra did not contact them for over FOUR HOURS. There was more than enough time in between all that to say, OH i'm done, I'll be at a lan in the next 2 hours even. I'm sure NASL would have understood. He DIDNT make any contact. How can you be supporting White-Ra's decision here?
SjoW played his last game hours before White-Ra. He had a long time to prepare. At the scheduled time, White-Ra was in-game with MC. So even from the start, it was literally impossible for him to make it to the scheduled time. So you can't compare the situation to SjoW's, it's completely different.
How about the next 3-4 hours, then? It's not like he wasn't given a rather exorbitant amount of time to even contact NASL at all, let alone play.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30,
It's great how you make wild assumptions in every post without actually having any idea how it actually went down... Totally contrary to you post some people stated earlier that he was tehre for ~15minutes after the event for autographs/interviews and then went to the afterparty
and again, Sjow.
But according to the NASL rules he had already forfeited the game by not being there 45 minutes after it should have started (which would have been impossible because of when the finals finished), so he did the right thing. Unless sjow had 3 minutes to get to a suitable computer after his game ended, the situation is not comparable at all.
On April 14 2011 10:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Praetorian is really acting like a little kid here. White-Ra was subject to the exact same conditions as SjoW, who managed to find a Lan center and play.
Not only that, White-Ra did not contact them for over FOUR HOURS. There was more than enough time in between all that to say, OH i'm done, I'll be at a lan in the next 2 hours even. I'm sure NASL would have understood. He DIDNT make any contact. How can you be supporting White-Ra's decision here?
SjoW played his last game hours before White-Ra. He had a long time to prepare. At the scheduled time, White-Ra was in-game with MC. So even from the start, it was literally impossible for him to make it to the scheduled time. So you can't compare the situation to SjoW's, it's completely different.
Sjow was on stage at the end of the dreamhack event.
He probably mastered the art of teleportation or something.
Lolll. Prae, they all left together from the event, some went to party, SjoW went to his obligated match for the NASL.
On April 14 2011 10:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Praetorian is really acting like a little kid here. White-Ra was subject to the exact same conditions as SjoW, who managed to find a Lan center and play.
Not only that, White-Ra did not contact them for over FOUR HOURS. There was more than enough time in between all that to say, OH i'm done, I'll be at a lan in the next 2 hours even. I'm sure NASL would have understood. He DIDNT make any contact. How can you be supporting White-Ra's decision here?
SjoW played his last game hours before White-Ra. He had a long time to prepare. At the scheduled time, White-Ra was in-game with MC. So even from the start, it was literally impossible for him to make it to the scheduled time. So you can't compare the situation to SjoW's, it's completely different.
So you are saying that 4 hours isnt enough to complete a best of 7 or whatever and then take a cab to a lan center and play ?
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule).
As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ?
On April 14 2011 10:33 PraetorianX wrote: And how do you guys know that White-Ra was even aware of this LAN center? How do you know he turned off his phone, maybe the battery died? You just assume he was out getting drunk and not giving a damn.
See now you're just making up random assumptions with no basis in fact.
On April 14 2011 10:37 mdb wrote: Dissapointing descision by NASL. Apparantly they were aware that there is a possibility that whitera cant make it, but nevertheless they didnt rescheduled the match. Giving the choice to July is just stupid.
why is it never the players fault for entering two conflicting tournaments knowing they wouldent be able to play if they made it to the finals...?
Or at least CONTACT one of the organizations and try to work something out?
Or show up to your games for one tournament after one ends, instead of attending an afterparty?
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule).
As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ?
I agree with this.
Also:
On April 14 2011 10:33 PraetorianX wrote: And how do you guys know that White-Ra was even aware of this LAN center? How do you know he turned off his phone, maybe the battery died? You just assume he was out getting drunk and not giving a damn.
You're just digging yourself a bigger and bigger hole. Just stop, dude. The blind fanboy in you just oozes from your posts, and it's just too irrational. Stop making baseless assumptions, and wait until we know FOR SURE what happened on Ra's end. Right now, there's just more evidence that points to Ra forgetting (and consequently being unprofessional, or at the very least, making an uninformed decision), than having valid reasons. The rest of us ARE saying that he went out to get drunk because there are people who saw him partying in person.
You're acting like we have personal vendettas against Ra - no. Shit happens.
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule).
As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ?
White Ra didn't contact NASL at all. They tried his phone / email etc but nothing. It wasn't some kind of miscommunication, it was White Ra ignoring nasl after winning a good bit of money, then going to party.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30,
It's great how you make wild assumptions in every post without actually having any idea how it actually went down... Totally contrary to you post some people stated earlier that he was tehre for ~15minutes after the event for autographs/interviews and then went to the afterparty
and again, Sjow.
But according to the NASL rules he had already forfeited the game by not being there 45 minutes after it should have started (which would have been impossible because of when the finals finished), so he did the right thing. Unless sjow had 3 minutes to get to a suitable computer after his game ended, the situation is not comparable at all.
SjoW stayed to the end too.
Then again, I don't think SjoW is old enough to drink so obviously he can't go to an afterparty...
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30,
It's great how you make wild assumptions in every post without actually having any idea how it actually went down... Totally contrary to you post some people stated earlier that he was tehre for ~15minutes after the event for autographs/interviews and then went to the afterparty
and again, Sjow.
But according to the NASL rules he had already forfeited the game by not being there 45 minutes after it should have started (which would have been impossible because of when the finals finished), so he did the right thing. Unless sjow had 3 minutes to get to a suitable computer after his game ended, the situation is not comparable at all.
July COULD have taken the win after 45 minutes.
Instead he waited 4 hours.
Yeah, and after 45 minutes White-Ra was still in game with MC (almost, game ended 21:42). So July gets a free autowin when White-Ra has 0% chance of being there to stop him. You think that's a good system?
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule).
As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ?
If he had those questions, he probably should have answered the phone or responded to their emails. Or he could have called them himself.
On April 14 2011 10:33 PraetorianX wrote: And how do you guys know that White-Ra was even aware of this LAN center? How do you know he turned off his phone, maybe the battery died? You just assume he was out getting drunk and not giving a damn.
Maybe he slipped on a banana peel, knocked his head and went unconscious for 4 hours!
The same goes for both sides of this discussion actually, assumptions, assumptions without anything behind them.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30,
It's great how you make wild assumptions in every post without actually having any idea how it actually went down... Totally contrary to you post some people stated earlier that he was tehre for ~15minutes after the event for autographs/interviews and then went to the afterparty
and again, Sjow.
But according to the NASL rules he had already forfeited the game by not being there 45 minutes after it should have started (which would have been impossible because of when the finals finished), so he did the right thing. Unless sjow had 3 minutes to get to a suitable computer after his game ended, the situation is not comparable at all.
July COULD have taken the win after 45 minutes.
Instead he waited 4 hours.
Yeah, and after 45 minutes White-Ra was still in game with MC (almost, game ended 21:42). So July gets a free autowin when White-Ra has 0% chance of being there to stop him. You think that's a good system?
Schedule was broken from the start.
I think this is MC's fault for actually letting Whitera take two games off of him. It was hilarious to watch Whitera go 2-0 up then MC completely roll over him, while the two games Whitera won were purely because MC didn't do the "best" PVP builds.
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule).
As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ?
White Ra didn't contact NASL at all. They tried his phone / email etc but nothing. It wasn't some kind of miscommunication, it was White Ra ignoring nasl after winning a good bit of money, then going to party.
A bit off-topic perhaps, but actually I don't think White-Ra won any money at all at Dreamhack. First prize was 100k, second prize was a "wildcard", no other prizes. Correct me if I'm wrong.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30,
It's great how you make wild assumptions in every post without actually having any idea how it actually went down... Totally contrary to you post some people stated earlier that he was tehre for ~15minutes after the event for autographs/interviews and then went to the afterparty
and again, Sjow.
But according to the NASL rules he had already forfeited the game by not being there 45 minutes after it should have started (which would have been impossible because of when the finals finished), so he did the right thing. Unless sjow had 3 minutes to get to a suitable computer after his game ended, the situation is not comparable at all.
July COULD have taken the win after 45 minutes.
Instead he waited 4 hours.
Yeah, and after 45 minutes White-Ra was still in game with MC (almost, game ended 21:42). So July gets a free autowin when White-Ra has 0% chance of being there to stop him. You think that's a good system?
Schedule was broken from the start.
Thats probably why NASL asked July and both agreed to wait for longer for WhiteRa. NASL and July knew he was still playing so they both agreed to wait more.
On April 14 2011 10:37 mdb wrote: Dissapointing descision by NASL. Apparantly they were aware that there is a possibility that whitera cant make it, but nevertheless they didnt rescheduled the match. Giving the choice to July is just stupid.
It's a schedule, that involves running a studio, hiring employees, etc. Do you not see how many matches they have a day? They can't just reschedule because white ra wants to party instead of play his match, the real world doesn't work that way.
He applied to be in the league, and accepted. Even paying a deposit.
He acted unprofessional in not trying to honor that contract. Imagine if you get hired to (these guys get paid to be in the league), for a job. And instead of showing up party. How can you honestly blame NASL?
I dont know why if whitera acted professional or not. I wasnt at DH and dont know what happened there - if he went to a party or not. But I know that comparing the whitera situation with sjow, who is from sweden and was eliminated several hours earlier is not professional by NASL. Just a way to wash their hands and justify their decision.
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule).
As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ?
White Ra didn't contact NASL at all. They tried his phone / email etc but nothing. It wasn't some kind of miscommunication, it was White Ra ignoring nasl after winning a good bit of money, then going to party.
A bit off-topic perhaps, but actually I don't think White-Ra won any money at all at Dreamhack. First prize was 100k, second prize was a "wildcard", no other prizes. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Read the news... it was 15k for the winner. I dont know for 2nd place, probably around 5k.
On April 14 2011 10:33 PraetorianX wrote: And how do you guys know that White-Ra was even aware of this LAN center? How do you know he turned off his phone, maybe the battery died? You just assume he was out getting drunk and not giving a damn.
Maybe he slipped on a banana peel, knocked his head and went unconscious for 4 hours!
The same goes for both sides of this discussion actually, assumptions, assumptions without anything behind them.
Would be intersting to hear what White-Ra has to say... :/
I sent White-Ra two emails, he didn't respond to them. I got an email from him at 8am today (about 16-17 hours after I emailed him).
I know he got the emails, because he had been emailing me from his iphone in the previous days, and had even sent me an email before the final started from his iphone. Therefore, I know he received my emails, and chose not to respond to them.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
b) I replied "you can play from a PC cafe thats close by, please keep in touch"
c) 2 hours later I emailed him again and said, "we've been waiting for you for 2 hours where are you"
Unfortunately we can only accommodate for other events so much... we have a pretty rigid schedule, and changing the time for one player means we have to switch around the other player too. When you have a Korean involved it becomes MUCH more difficult because they already sacrifice so much to plan their sleep schedule each week around an NASL match -- just telling them they need to play at a different time is unfair to them.
At some point, you need to take responsibility and manage your schedule more appropriately, or take the time to make arrangements. SjoW for example chose not to go to the afterparty or hang out with his friends, drove home, and played his NASL match.
On April 14 2011 10:35 ch33psh33p wrote: Praetorian is really acting like a little kid here. White-Ra was subject to the exact same conditions as SjoW, who managed to find a Lan center and play.
Not only that, White-Ra did not contact them for over FOUR HOURS. There was more than enough time in between all that to say, OH i'm done, I'll be at a lan in the next 2 hours even. I'm sure NASL would have understood. He DIDNT make any contact. How can you be supporting White-Ra's decision here?
SjoW played his last game hours before White-Ra. He had a long time to prepare. At the scheduled time, White-Ra was in-game with MC. So even from the start, it was literally impossible for him to make it to the scheduled time. So you can't compare the situation to SjoW's, it's completely different.
The OP doesn't actually state that they were scheduled for 4am Korea time, just that July woke up at 4am and subsequently waited for 4 hours after their match was scheduled to start.
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule).
As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ?
White Ra didn't contact NASL at all. They tried his phone / email etc but nothing. It wasn't some kind of miscommunication, it was White Ra ignoring nasl after winning a good bit of money, then going to party.
A bit off-topic perhaps, but actually I don't think White-Ra won any money at all at Dreamhack. First prize was 100k, second prize was a "wildcard", no other prizes. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Read the news... it was 15k for the winner. I dont know for 2nd place, probably around 5k.
No.
1st: 100 000 SEK cash ($15,000 or €10,000) + DreamHack Summer and Winter 2011 Wildcard. 2nd: DreamHack Summer 2011 Wildcard.
On April 14 2011 09:52 Coolbeans wrote: if all matches are pre recorded anyway what is the big problem with playing off replays when they run into a schedule conflict like dreamhack and other big events?
Yeah, why couldn't they just played the game yesterday? Or better yet, why not just play it LIVE? Or do NASL feel they can't handle an actual live game?
It just feels so arrogant from their side not to be extra flexible in this matter.
Do you not understand that they WERE flexible? They gave him 4 HOURS. That's 5x longer than he was supposed to get. You cannot expect a tournament to change the entire format to benefit one player, that's just ridiculous.
Let me break this down for you. A time was arranged previously. Both players agreed on this time. White-Ra did not show up to play. July did. ALSO SjoW's match was scheduled for the same time that Ra's was and he found a way to play after also playing in Dreamhack.
This. And again. Whitera lost the finals at precisely 21:42 Swedish time. That's 42 minutes AFTER his game with Julyzerg should have started. He was given extra time to get somewhere to play - he didn't, he forfeits, grats to Julyzerg for being patient. + Show Spoiler +
(Although tbh, I expect the 4 hours Julyzerg waited he was eating breakfast)
But there you have it. 4AM in Korea is 21:00 in Sweden, and White-Ra playing the Dreamhack finals at that time! He was probably busy with the Dreamhack event until at least 22:00 or 22:30,
It's great how you make wild assumptions in every post without actually having any idea how it actually went down... Totally contrary to you post some people stated earlier that he was tehre for ~15minutes after the event for autographs/interviews and then went to the afterparty
and again, Sjow.
But according to the NASL rules he had already forfeited the game by not being there 45 minutes after it should have started (which would have been impossible because of when the finals finished), so he did the right thing. Unless sjow had 3 minutes to get to a suitable computer after his game ended, the situation is not comparable at all.
July COULD have taken the win after 45 minutes.
Instead he waited 4 hours.
Yeah, and after 45 minutes White-Ra was still in game with MC (almost, game ended 21:42). So July gets a free autowin when White-Ra has 0% chance of being there to stop him. You think that's a good system?
Schedule was broken from the start.
Read my post a few pages back about TheSTC. Same exact situation - and not only that, he was the FIRST seed in the tournament. A schedule isn't "broken" just because one player has conflicts. I don't care if Ra is the equivalent of Flash in SC2 (which he obviously isn't).
Stop acting irrational because you're a fan. On the other hand, I don't understand why NASL even made a big deal out of this. Walkover, done, let's move on. How this turns into a 25+ page thread is laughable.
On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote: I sent White-Ra two emails, he didn't respond to them. I got an email from him at 8am today (about 16-17 hours after I emailed him).
I know he got the emails, because he had been emailing me from his iphone in the previous days, and had even sent me an email before the final started from his iphone. Therefore, I know he received my emails, and chose not to respond to them.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
b) I replied "you can play from a PC cafe thats close by, please keep in touch"
c) 2 hours later I emailed him again and said, "we've been waiting for you for 2 hours where are you"
Unfortunately we can only accommodate for other events so much... we have a pretty rigid schedule, and changing the time for one player means we have to switch around the other player too. When you have a Korean involved it becomes MUCH more difficult because they already sacrifice so much to plan their sleep schedule each week around an NASL match -- just telling them they need to play at a different time is unfair to them.
At some point, you need to take responsibility and manage your schedule more appropriately, or take the time to make arrangements. SjoW for example chose not to go to the afterparty or hang out with his friends, drove home, and played his NASL match.
So, whitera told you that he cant make it and asked to reschedule the game and you told him to go to a pc cafe to play?
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule).
As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ?
White Ra didn't contact NASL at all. They tried his phone / email etc but nothing. It wasn't some kind of miscommunication, it was White Ra ignoring nasl after winning a good bit of money, then going to party.
A bit off-topic perhaps, but actually I don't think White-Ra won any money at all at Dreamhack. First prize was 100k, second prize was a "wildcard", no other prizes. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Read the news... it was 15k for the winner. I dont know for 2nd place, probably around 5k.
No.
1st: 100 000 SEK cash ($15,000 or €10,000) + DreamHack Summer and Winter 2011 Wildcard. 2nd: DreamHack Summer 2011 Wildcard.
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule).
As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ?
White Ra didn't contact NASL at all. They tried his phone / email etc but nothing. It wasn't some kind of miscommunication, it was White Ra ignoring nasl after winning a good bit of money, then going to party.
If he thought he already forfeit why would he contact NASL ?
I often turn off my phone when I am not expecting messages/calls and it is not because I want to ignore someone. I also often ignore calls from unknown numbers altogether.
Also wasn't DH winner takes all ? In that case White-ra won nothing.
On April 14 2011 10:35 Spacemanspiff wrote: People are assuming that after being told there was a LAN center nearby, White-ra still refused to go there and didn't answer his phone knowing he had a match. This seems more like a miscommunication or that he had to catch a plane, but people are taking it as intentional with no evidence.
He had to catch a plane...so he went to a party?
If I didn't have time to play a match before my plane left, I would stop by the party for a bit. We don't know what happened.
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule).
As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ?
White Ra didn't contact NASL at all. They tried his phone / email etc but nothing. It wasn't some kind of miscommunication, it was White Ra ignoring nasl after winning a good bit of money, then going to party.
If he thought he already forfeit why would he contact NASL ?
I often turn off my phone when I am not expecting messages/calls and it is not because I want to ignore someone. I also often ignore calls from unknown numbers altogether.
Also wasn't DH winner takes all ? In that case White-ra won nothing.
lol you turn your phone off? you must be unpopular.
On April 14 2011 10:35 Spacemanspiff wrote: People are assuming that after being told there was a LAN center nearby, White-ra still refused to go there and didn't answer his phone knowing he had a match. This seems more like a miscommunication or that he had to catch a plane, but people are taking it as intentional with no evidence.
He had to catch a plane...so he went to a party?
If I didn't have time to play a match before my plane left, I would stop by the party for a bit. We don't know what happened.
As I said, my friend who was at the afterparty left at around 04:30~ Swedish time (CET), she left before Whitera left.
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule).
As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ?
White Ra didn't contact NASL at all. They tried his phone / email etc but nothing. It wasn't some kind of miscommunication, it was White Ra ignoring nasl after winning a good bit of money, then going to party.
If he thought he already forfeit why would he contact NASL ?
I often turn off my phone when I am not expecting messages/calls and it is not because I want to ignore someone. I also often ignore calls from unknown numbers altogether.
Also wasn't DH winner takes all ? In that case White-ra won nothing.
On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote: I sent White-Ra two emails, he didn't respond to them. I got an email from him at 8am today (about 16-17 hours after I emailed him).
I know he got the emails, because he had been emailing me from his iphone in the previous days, and had even sent me an email before the final started from his iphone. Therefore, I know he received my emails, and chose not to respond to them.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
b) I replied "you can play from a PC cafe thats close by, please keep in touch"
c) 2 hours later I emailed him again and said, "we've been waiting for you for 2 hours where are you"
Unfortunately we can only accommodate for other events so much... we have a pretty rigid schedule, and changing the time for one player means we have to switch around the other player too. When you have a Korean involved it becomes MUCH more difficult because they already sacrifice so much to plan their sleep schedule each week around an NASL match -- just telling them they need to play at a different time is unfair to them.
At some point, you need to take responsibility and manage your schedule more appropriately, or take the time to make arrangements. SjoW for example chose not to go to the afterparty or hang out with his friends, drove home, and played his NASL match.
So, whitera told you that he cant make it and asked to reschedule the game and you told him to go to a pc cafe to play?
Where in that post do you read that he asked for a reschedule?
On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote: I sent White-Ra two emails, he didn't respond to them. I got an email from him at 8am today (about 16-17 hours after I emailed him).
I know he got the emails, because he had been emailing me from his iphone in the previous days, and had even sent me an email before the final started from his iphone. Therefore, I know he received my emails, and chose not to respond to them.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
b) I replied "you can play from a PC cafe thats close by, please keep in touch"
c) 2 hours later I emailed him again and said, "we've been waiting for you for 2 hours where are you"
Unfortunately we can only accommodate for other events so much... we have a pretty rigid schedule, and changing the time for one player means we have to switch around the other player too. When you have a Korean involved it becomes MUCH more difficult because they already sacrifice so much to plan their sleep schedule each week around an NASL match -- just telling them they need to play at a different time is unfair to them.
At some point, you need to take responsibility and manage your schedule more appropriately, or take the time to make arrangements. SjoW for example chose not to go to the afterparty or hang out with his friends, drove home, and played his NASL match.
So, whitera told you that he cant make it and asked to reschedule the game and you told him to go to a pc cafe to play?
Where in that post do you read that he asked for a reschedule?
I dont know, thats why I`m asking. What "pp my game" means?
On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote: I sent White-Ra two emails, he didn't respond to them. I got an email from him at 8am today (about 16-17 hours after I emailed him).
I know he got the emails, because he had been emailing me from his iphone in the previous days, and had even sent me an email before the final started from his iphone. Therefore, I know he received my emails, and chose not to respond to them.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
b) I replied "you can play from a PC cafe thats close by, please keep in touch"
c) 2 hours later I emailed him again and said, "we've been waiting for you for 2 hours where are you"
Unfortunately we can only accommodate for other events so much... we have a pretty rigid schedule, and changing the time for one player means we have to switch around the other player too. When you have a Korean involved it becomes MUCH more difficult because they already sacrifice so much to plan their sleep schedule each week around an NASL match -- just telling them they need to play at a different time is unfair to them.
At some point, you need to take responsibility and manage your schedule more appropriately, or take the time to make arrangements. SjoW for example chose not to go to the afterparty or hang out with his friends, drove home, and played his NASL match.
So, whitera told you that he cant make it and asked to reschedule the game and you told him to go to a pc cafe to play?
Where in that post do you read that he asked for a reschedule?
I dont know, thats why I`m asking. What "pp my game" means?
Post-pone, and they did, he was given an additional 3 hours and 15 minutes and still didn't comply.
Proof, or are we still under the speculation that this is totally a scheduling problem? :D
The point is not whether White-ra went to the party I hope that is already established as a fact. But that does not say anything about why he did he decided not to play. And it is scheduling problem anyway, because it was scheduled on the same day and even on the same hour as DH tournament.
Yeah. Finding a time when a Korean, two Americans, as well as Whitera ... As well as all the other players on the same day for NASL Day 1-2 to play and streamline efficiently so it can be broadcasted in a polished manner sure is easy.
Wait, what?
Should I again requote 3 easy solutions to rescheduling problem that I already posted ? I will use just one. Why not let White-ra and July play earlier and cast from replays. I highly doubt White-ra and July would be incapable of finding the time to play, especially since EU time and KST have a lot of day overlap and you just need to find one referee to be present for the game, which can be any trustworthy European, Korean or even American and it would not be hard to find such a person.
Clearly the NASL organisers have a set way to do things. It is by this set method that they're doing it. I assume the players had to sign some sort of agreement towards the terms and regulations (a EULA/ToS, if you will) of the tournament in order to participate.
What the hell is wrong with you people?
And if you note I am not saying the forfeit decision was bad, just that their scheduling rules/decisions are bad. If they had more flexible scheduling decisions(easily achievable), but still precisely written and enforced, the end-result would be better for viewers and for NASL.
So tell me this:
Artosis has to cast the GSL. He plays in the NASL. Like Julyzerg he has to wake up at 4am for his game. He also has to cast the GSL, possibly, on the same day. He's going to have to wake up at 4am for it. In a tournament "this big" you cannot be flexible for one person ... When one person is special, other people demand that special treatment: then you get a bunch of whining little shits who want to play when they're feeling up to it.
The scheduling may be bad - but if every other player and their mother can make the times, Whitera should be able to. Hell, SjoW made sure he was able to play and he even stayed to the end of the DH finals...
I did not say they should make exceptions to White-ra alone. They should make their rules strict and clear but allow reasonable rescheduling according to rules. By reasonable I mean if they know week in advance that one player has big likelihood of not being able to play on the set date because of important circumstances (conflict with big tournament, death in the family,...) but would be able to play for example 3 days before, to just allow players to play it at different date and cast from replays. This would not happen too often and is not some organisational nightmare.
As I said no exceptions, you can make rules so they allow rare rescheduling that is according to rules and therefore there is no preferential treatment.
This seems pretty reasonable to me too. I don't think there was anything wrong with the decision NASL made due to the circumstances. Depending on the amount of time NASL is given in advance for a major lan like Dreamhack, rescheduling should be possible. The same sentiment extends to Sjow, too. This is a 5-day a week 3 month long league. To not run into scheduling problems with other tournaments is impossible. It happened with Idra with the GSL and a European tournament as well (I believe it was IEM, but I don't remember which one).
So awarding July the win is perfectly acceptable, but I do hope rescheduling due to conflicting events remains a possibility for NASL games. Otherwise this is going to happen again. Understandably while rescheduling in general should remain an option, in specific cases it may not be possible. It is another burden, but it's a burden placed on themselves when they decided to run a 5-day a week tournament.
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule).
As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ?
White Ra didn't contact NASL at all. They tried his phone / email etc but nothing. It wasn't some kind of miscommunication, it was White Ra ignoring nasl after winning a good bit of money, then going to party.
A bit off-topic perhaps, but actually I don't think White-Ra won any money at all at Dreamhack. First prize was 100k, second prize was a "wildcard", no other prizes. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Read the news... it was 15k for the winner. I dont know for 2nd place, probably around 5k.
100k swedish = 15k EUR, as far as I know nothing for the 2nd.
On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote: I sent White-Ra two emails, he didn't respond to them. I got an email from him at 8am today (about 16-17 hours after I emailed him).
I know he got the emails, because he had been emailing me from his iphone in the previous days, and had even sent me an email before the final started from his iphone. Therefore, I know he received my emails, and chose not to respond to them.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
b) I replied "you can play from a PC cafe thats close by, please keep in touch"
c) 2 hours later I emailed him again and said, "we've been waiting for you for 2 hours where are you"
Unfortunately we can only accommodate for other events so much... we have a pretty rigid schedule, and changing the time for one player means we have to switch around the other player too. When you have a Korean involved it becomes MUCH more difficult because they already sacrifice so much to plan their sleep schedule each week around an NASL match -- just telling them they need to play at a different time is unfair to them.
At some point, you need to take responsibility and manage your schedule more appropriately, or take the time to make arrangements. SjoW for example chose not to go to the afterparty or hang out with his friends, drove home, and played his NASL match.
So, whitera told you that he cant make it and asked to reschedule the game and you told him to go to a pc cafe to play?
Where in that post do you read that he asked for a reschedule?
I dont know, thats why I`m asking. What "pp my game" means?
Oh... I assumed it stands for Penalty Points, since that's how ESL handles it and NASL has some similar system with those 250$ deposit
But you're right, pp could probably also mean "postpone"... actually that's more likely... me dumb :D
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
What does "pp my game" mean? PP = please pause?
Ah never mind, I saw above that he probably meant postpone.
So White-Ra probably knew he couldn't make it in time, he asked the event organizers to postpone his game. And after that final, I'm sure White-Ra was getting hundreds of calls / texts / E-mails from various fans / family / others so it's not strange he turned off his phone. He probably didn't read those last E-mails until the day after.
I don't think you can schedule and plan for every eventuality in a schedule, There's a lot of tournaments now, and you don't even know who's going to do what.
Cruncher could be in the Finals for Code A in two months or something.
You set a time you think is likely to work, obviously both July and White-Ra agreed to this scheduled match. It would have been his responsibility to say 'Well I'll be at DreamHack, can we do it at 8am KST instead of 4am?' I'm sure July wouldn't have objected to that...but you can't decide at 4am to delay it, you'd have to decide before hand and move it with fair notice.
It's really White-Ra's responsibility to contact NASL, not the other way around. He knew he had a match that conflicted, he should have made arrangements before it...not wait until after it ended then be out of touch for the next 3 hours.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
What does "pp my game" mean? PP = please pause?
Ah never mind, I saw above that he probably meant postpone.
So White-Ra probably knew he couldn't make it in time, he asked the event organizers to postpone his game. And after that final, I'm sure White-Ra was getting hundreds of calls / texts / E-mails from various fans / family / others so it's not strange he turned off his phone. He probably didn't read those last E-mails until the day after.
Correct. Despite the fact that we had told him in previous emails, "we can't postpone" and "there's a PC cafe 10 minutes away you can go to play" ... He made a choice. As I said, SjoW drove home straight after Dreamhack instead of hanging out with friends or going to a party in order to play. White-Ra could have taken 1 hour out of his schedule to play his NASL match, and then go party.
Nobody honestly saw something like this coming after they saw the NASL schedule? This kind of situation (not this exact one obviously) was the first thing that came to mind for me.
Edit: And this also...
On April 14 2011 05:23 vrok wrote: Pretty strange scheduling to be honest when it's all prerecorded anyway, but whatever...
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
What does "pp my game" mean? PP = please pause?
Ah never mind, I saw above that he probably meant postpone.
So White-Ra probably knew he couldn't make it in time, he asked the event organizers to postpone his game. And after that final, I'm sure White-Ra was getting hundreds of calls / texts / E-mails from various fans / family / others so it's not strange he turned off his phone. He probably didn't read those last E-mails until the day after.
Correct. Despite the fact that we had told him in previous emails, "we can't postpone" and "there's a PC cafe 10 minutes away you can go to play" ... He made a choice. As I said, SjoW drove home straight after Dreamhack instead of hanging out with friends or going to a party in order to play. White-Ra could have taken 1 hour out of his schedule to play his NASL match, and then go party.
amen, thanks for setting the record strait...even though i thought the first post did that XD
On April 14 2011 10:03 PraetorianX wrote: Not cool. Why not just give the win to White-Ra? It's not his fault, not even a little bit. Why couldn't you just play the game a different day, when White-Ra has a computer? The Dreamhack Finals was 2 days ago. I don't see how they could conflict.
You didn't even think for a single second before making that post, right?
Might also want to read the thread...
I did read the thread. White-Ra was unavailable for the game, which was totally understandable considering the circumstances. The point is, they should have rescheduled instead of just awarding the win to July.
Also, I'm sure White-Ra had a perfectly reasonable explanation for everything that happened.
I might disagree with a lot of people in this thread about rescheduling, but no, they should have rescheduled long time before yesterday. As they did not as is their prerogative, the ruling to give win to July was perfectly correct. They just should not have left July waiting for 4h and do it sooner.
They don't have to reschedule anything. It's the players responsibility. NASL isn't responsible for making your life fit perfectly. If you accepted NASL's contract and decided to play in it, maybe you should respect them and not attend tournaments that conflict with the schedule you agreed to. With that said NASL went out of their way to try and make this work while White-Ra didn't. It's simple as that and to try and put any blame, even partially ("NASL should have rescheduled"), on NASL is bullshit.
Read the thread. I already said I am not blaming NASL for that. I am blaming NASL (and maybe White-ra) for keeping July there for 4 hours. They should have made the ruling after 45 minutes. I am all for following the rules and the decision was correct. That does not change the fact that their scheduling rules and far from perfect (and before you reply read what I mean by bad schedule).
As for people saying White-ra is unprofessional, I would love to know how can you be sure ? Do you actually know why he went to the party and not to play ? If he just said, fuck it I want to party then yes he was unprofessional. But what if he thought that he was already forfeit since it was long after the match was supposed to start ? Are you sure that there was no miscommunication between NASL and White-ra ?
White Ra didn't contact NASL at all. They tried his phone / email etc but nothing. It wasn't some kind of miscommunication, it was White Ra ignoring nasl after winning a good bit of money, then going to party.
If he thought he already forfeit why would he contact NASL ?
I often turn off my phone when I am not expecting messages/calls and it is not because I want to ignore someone. I also often ignore calls from unknown numbers altogether.
Also wasn't DH winner takes all ? In that case White-ra won nothing.
Read NASL.TV post.
I did and only thing I can gather is that White-ra assumed/understood something wrongly and went to a party where he ignored his phone which is not surprising. It is still possible he just said "fuck NASL let's party", but I do not see anything to clearly support that.
I agree, White-Ra definitely should've contacted NASL early on and asked to reschedule his match with July after DreamHack was over. When you host a tournament, it's up to the players to decide to show up or not, if they don't they should be disqualified. In the Olympics, if one of the athletes don't show up at all on time, you'd be disqualified no matter what your reason is. No one is going to wait 4 hours for you to perform.
On April 14 2011 10:49 NASL.tv wrote: I sent White-Ra two emails, he didn't respond to them. I got an email from him at 8am today (about 16-17 hours after I emailed him).
I know he got the emails, because he had been emailing me from his iphone in the previous days, and had even sent me an email before the final started from his iphone. Therefore, I know he received my emails, and chose not to respond to them.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
b) I replied "you can play from a PC cafe thats close by, please keep in touch"
c) 2 hours later I emailed him again and said, "we've been waiting for you for 2 hours where are you"
Unfortunately we can only accommodate for other events so much... we have a pretty rigid schedule, and changing the time for one player means we have to switch around the other player too. When you have a Korean involved it becomes MUCH more difficult because they already sacrifice so much to plan their sleep schedule each week around an NASL match -- just telling them they need to play at a different time is unfair to them.
At some point, you need to take responsibility and manage your schedule more appropriately, or take the time to make arrangements. SjoW for example chose not to go to the afterparty or hang out with his friends, drove home, and played his NASL match.
So, whitera told you that he cant make it and asked to reschedule the game and you told him to go to a pc cafe to play?
All in all that's a pretty warped understanding of the post you just read. Good work.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
What does "pp my game" mean? PP = please pause?
Ah never mind, I saw above that he probably meant postpone.
So White-Ra probably knew he couldn't make it in time, he asked the event organizers to postpone his game. And after that final, I'm sure White-Ra was getting hundreds of calls / texts / E-mails from various fans / family / others so it's not strange he turned off his phone. He probably didn't read those last E-mails until the day after.
If that is your newest excuse for White-Ra not being responsible for this it's pretty pathetic. As a player you have are responsible for your games just as the tournament organizers are, you can't expect them to just do as you wish after dropping them a one-liner and then cut off the contact.
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
What does "pp my game" mean? PP = please pause?
Ah never mind, I saw above that he probably meant postpone.
So White-Ra probably knew he couldn't make it in time, he asked the event organizers to postpone his game. And after that final, I'm sure White-Ra was getting hundreds of calls / texts / E-mails from various fans / family / others so it's not strange he turned off his phone. He probably didn't read those last E-mails until the day after.
Correct. Despite the fact that we had told him in previous emails, "we can't postpone" and "there's a PC cafe 10 minutes away you can go to play" ... He made a choice. As I said, SjoW drove home straight after Dreamhack instead of hanging out with friends or going to a party in order to play. White-Ra could have taken 1 hour out of his schedule to play his NASL match, and then go party.
Ah since you are reading this thread, if White-ra asked beforehand(like week beforehand) for playing it another day, or just playing it with July and a referee so you can cast it from replays, would his request be granted ? It seems at least the second variant should not be a organizational nightmare if done rarely or am I missing some problem ?
On April 14 2011 11:14 FidoDido wrote: I agree, White-Ra definitely should've contacted NASL early on and asked to reschedule his match with July after DreamHack was over. When you host a tournament, it's up to the players to decide to show up or not, if they don't they should be disqualified. In the Olympics, if one of the athletes don't show up at all on time, you'd be disqualified no matter what your reason is. No one is going to wait 4 hours for you to perform.
They dont schedule Olympics when there is Athletics World Championships for a reason...
a) He said "hi i make final pp my game" , despite me telling him the day before he could play from a PC cafe
What does "pp my game" mean? PP = please pause?
Ah never mind, I saw above that he probably meant postpone.
So White-Ra probably knew he couldn't make it in time, he asked the event organizers to postpone his game. And after that final, I'm sure White-Ra was getting hundreds of calls / texts / E-mails from various fans / family / others so it's not strange he turned off his phone. He probably didn't read those last E-mails until the day after.
Correct. Despite the fact that we had told him in previous emails, "we can't postpone" and "there's a PC cafe 10 minutes away you can go to play" ... He made a choice. As I said, SjoW drove home straight after Dreamhack instead of hanging out with friends or going to a party in order to play. White-Ra could have taken 1 hour out of his schedule to play his NASL match, and then go party.
Seems like you guys are doing the same thing now for Strelok. Why can't you guys just enforce the rule, and make the decisions yourselves, instead of potentially making the player who was on-time, look bad? Fans of Ra are not happy that July took the free win, and I'm sure if Strelok opts for the win, it's not going to look good either.
Unfortunate, as it would of been a great match to watch but its Whitera's fault, and only Whitera.
The competition needs to run, you can't expect them to accommodate every single players schedule - By the sounds he still had time to get to a lan cafe, if he actually communicated with the organizers.
In real life sports, people have managers to manage these type of situations and player's schedule.
The funny thing is, the scheduled time WAS postponed. July and NASL gave White-Ra 4 HOURS to show up. Now, I'm not sure if White-Ra knew that NASL was going to give him an extra 195 minutes to show up BUT it is his responsibility to follow up with NASL right after his finals with MC. He chose not to attempt to contact or reply to NASL in any way and went to a party instead.
It seems pretty clear to me that it is White-Ra's fault that he received the loss. NASL and July already gave White-Ra a chance to play and he didn't take it.
Poor White-Ra. He prolly thought the game was either already forfeited or not being played, and decided to hang out with the crowd instead. Sometimes you can be too much of a boss for your own good. Only White-Ra can have something fail for him due to being too awesome.
Poor July. Glad he just took the win he should never have been asked to take but gotten from NASL without asking him instead. Too bad he had to wait for it, but he got a free walk so at least he doesnt go completely uncompensated for.
True, it was sad to see that the game is cancelled. But I agree to the call. Anw, it doesn't mean that white-ra going to be banned for the tourney, and its extended format will allow him to swing back. let's just hope that he does =)
I can't fault July for taking the free win after waking up that early and waiting for 4 hours, but I've got to wonder why NASL isn't able to alter their schedule given the timing of other major tournaments.
I'd be surprised if Sjow played well given that he had to play from a LAN center. It's not like the date of Dreamhack was a secret. They should have altered the schedule over a week ago when these dates and the players involved were already well known. They could have simply switched WhiteRa & Sjow's matches to Thursday and moved two of the Thursday games up a day. Or arranged for WhiteRa & Sjow to play their NASL opponents a day earlier.
This just seems like a complete lack of foresight. After the end of Round 1 at Dreamhack it was clear that either Sjow or WhiteRa was going to be playing in the finals.
Between this and the absurd lag for Rainbow on Day 1, NASL hasn't gotten off to a great start.
NASL made the right decision to extend the grace period for White-Ra. However, if a player does not arrive within the extension; if a player is absent, then the decision - forfeiture or re-scheduling of match - should not be left to his opponent. NASL staff should bear that responsibility. If time-constraints do not allow for re-matches, then they should create an automatic forfeiture that comes into effect when there is an absence.
Lol 27 pages of discussions and nobody ever tought he maybe forgot he had NASL after dreamhack? He is playing a match against MC who is considerable the best player of the world, i think all his focus goes to the match and not what to do after. After the match is over he just wanted to have a good time and completely forgot about it. yes he should have thought about it but humans forgot things sometimes, no reason to make false theory's like "he didn't care" or "he didn't even attemp to play his NASL match"
That seems the most logical theory depending if the posts here are right. On the other hand, mad props for july for waiting 4hours extra when your match already is at 4 am But the NASL should have said that july got the win, not shoving the responibility to the player.
All the players know the rules of the league. In reality, it is only 1 loss and it probably wont affect his overall score that much. I doubt any single player will go completely undefeated in the league. I'd be willing to bet that is how White-Ra looked at the situation. He prioritized Dreamhack Finals over NASL week 1 ( of course, no one can blame him) But losing the first week of NASL really will not harm him THAT much as long as he performs well in the rest of the matches.
July only cares about money, he's getting pretty old and has to go to the army soon. He's only focused on making money because he thinks that after he goes to the army he wont be a progamer anymore.
On April 14 2011 12:18 Theo wrote: July only cares about money, he's getting pretty old and has to go to the army soon. He's only focused on making money because he thinks that after he goes to the army he wont be a progamer anymore.
Got any proof for that? Because when we interviewed July he said he does not care about money....
On April 14 2011 05:14 On_Slaught wrote: This is... unfortunate.
It's a shame more couldn't be done to work out the schedule (not saying NASL is responsible since they clearly tried to contact Whitera multiple times). I thought all these big tournies were going to go out of their way to not step on eachothers toes?
I really thought the same thing... kind of weird and frustrating... oh well
Very unfortunate since it was the best match of today.
I hope people stop posting 'suggestions,' like "NASL should've done this or that." You really think NASL didn't make every possible effort to make their biggest match of today happen?
On April 14 2011 12:18 Theo wrote: July only cares about money, he's getting pretty old and has to go to the army soon. He's only focused on making money because he thinks that after he goes to the army he wont be a progamer anymore.
Can you not post slander that you pulled out of your ass?
One of the flaws of not having a coach/other team members to help him with scheduling. Well maybe White Ra really needed to focus on Dreamhack Invitational, he is going against the best Protoss in the world and PvP is White Ra's weakest match up, and with the grudge left over from GSL world championship + white ra run with MC at TSL 3, who would blame him for concentrating on the Dreamhack Invitational. GO WHITE RA!!
In Golf you get DQ'd from the entire tournament if you are 10 minutes late to your Tee time, so its not like they are harsh or anything.
Its unfortunate, but I'm sure WhiteRa can take it in stride and still perform well. Besides, "I was busy playing the finals of another tournament" isn't that bad of a reason to miss a match.
This is why the NASL should be for people residing in North America only. This is going to be a common occurance in eSports and players will be dropping out of events like flies. Until NASL gets their *(&$&(# together and lets the players play their matches whenever they want and submit replays we shouldn't allow players that do not reside in North America to participate.
if u read carefully u would realize whitera was never informed he had to play. -.- dream hack said no so u cant expect for white ra to respond to 2 emails and a phone call 45 mins b4 they want him to play. kinda like oh no school 2morrow kool. 6 am they call ur house and leave a message theres school! and they failed ur test cuz u didnt happen to come by 10. -.-
On April 14 2011 14:05 CarelessPride wrote: if u read carefully u would realize whitera was never informed he had to play. -.- dream hack said no so u cant expect for white ra to respond to 2 emails and a phone call 45 mins b4 they want him to play. kinda like oh no school 2morrow kool. 6 am they call ur house and leave a message theres school! and they failed ur test cuz u didnt happen to come by 10. -.-
On April 14 2011 13:38 onedayclose wrote: This is why the NASL should be for people residing in North America only. This is going to be a common occurance in eSports and players will be dropping out of events like flies. Until NASL gets their *(&$&(# together and lets the players play their matches whenever they want and submit replays we shouldn't allow players that do not reside in North America to participate.
Yeah! Americans don't play in Dreamhack!
Edit: Because someone isn't going to get it, I'm being sarcastic. The quoted poster was being a moron.
On April 14 2011 14:05 CarelessPride wrote: if u read carefully u would realize whitera was never informed he had to play. -.- dream hack said no so u cant expect for white ra to respond to 2 emails and a phone call 45 mins b4 they want him to play. kinda like oh no school 2morrow kool. 6 am they call ur house and leave a message theres school! and they failed ur test cuz u didnt happen to come by 10. -.-
Where do you see this?
where do they say we informed white ra he had to play that day.? all they said was sjow found a place to play and informed white ra after waited 4 hours for his response. so all u get is a 4 hours of notice? who do u take white ra for? a substitute teacher?
Man, this makes the results of those finals, and the nature of that last game against MC seem even sadder for White-Ra.
I guess there is little that could be done though. Especially with the amount of lag and awkward times July has to deal with playing, I could see why he would just take the win.
On April 14 2011 14:05 CarelessPride wrote: if u read carefully u would realize whitera was never informed he had to play. -.- dream hack said no so u cant expect for white ra to respond to 2 emails and a phone call 45 mins b4 they want him to play. kinda like oh no school 2morrow kool. 6 am they call ur house and leave a message theres school! and they failed ur test cuz u didnt happen to come by 10. -.-
Where do you see this?
where do they say we informed white ra he had to play that day.? all they said was sjow found a place to play and informed white ra after waited 4 hours for his response. so all u get is a 4 hours of notice? who do u take white ra for? a substitute teacher?
Also are you seriously suggesting they never told White-Ra in advance he had to play, just randomly called him up and was like "hey play now d00d!"?????????? Knowing Xeris I can say for 100% sure that he gave White-Ra ample notice.
This is not the first time White-Ra has had issues. He lost replays in the Day 9 KOTB, and didn't save his replays for the showmatch vs Bomber.
It's time players start acting like professionals, and NASL is forcing them to do that. Do you think if MVP had been 4 hours late for the GOM WC's without ever being in contact, he would have been still allowed to play?
Good job by NASL with this decision (although they should not made July decide, and auto-dq'd Ra in that match).
On April 14 2011 14:05 CarelessPride wrote: if u read carefully u would realize whitera was never informed he had to play. -.- dream hack said no so u cant expect for white ra to respond to 2 emails and a phone call 45 mins b4 they want him to play. kinda like oh no school 2morrow kool. 6 am they call ur house and leave a message theres school! and they failed ur test cuz u didnt happen to come by 10. -.-
Where do you see this?
where do they say we informed white ra he had to play that day.? all they said was sjow found a place to play and informed white ra after waited 4 hours for his response. so all u get is a 4 hours of notice? who do u take white ra for? a substitute teacher?
Also are you seriously suggesting they never told White-Ra in advance he had to play, just randomly called him up and was like "hey play now d00d!"?????????? Knowing Xeris I can say for 100% sure that he gave White-Ra ample notice.
This is not the first time White-Ra has had issues. He lost replays in the Day 9 KOTB, and didn't save his replays for the showmatch vs Bomber.
It's time players start acting like professionals, and NASL is forcing them to do that. Do you think if MVP had been 4 hours late for the GOM WC's without ever being in contact, he would have been still allowed to play?
Good job by NASL with this decision (although they should not made July decide, and auto-dq'd Ra in that match).
yup like it says NASL was told if whitera gets into the finals he couldnt play -.- so im pretty sure white ra assumed a reschedual
Ah that's a shame, I was revved up to see what July could possibly bring to the table against this Protoss beast. I agree with the decision NASL made, albeit four hours seems incredibly excessive. Also I don't really like that the decision rested with July, as others have pointed out.
Shame but there will be more epic matches to come, without a doubt.
yup like it says NASL was told if whitera gets into the finals he couldnt play -.- so im pretty sure white ra assumed a reschedual
Did you not read the part where SjoW could have potentially been in the same situations but made arrangements to avoid it? And where whitera cut communication with NASL?
On April 14 2011 14:05 CarelessPride wrote: if u read carefully u would realize whitera was never informed he had to play. -.- dream hack said no so u cant expect for white ra to respond to 2 emails and a phone call 45 mins b4 they want him to play. kinda like oh no school 2morrow kool. 6 am they call ur house and leave a message theres school! and they failed ur test cuz u didnt happen to come by 10. -.-
Where do you see this?
where do they say we informed white ra he had to play that day.? all they said was sjow found a place to play and informed white ra after waited 4 hours for his response. so all u get is a 4 hours of notice? who do u take white ra for? a substitute teacher?
Also are you seriously suggesting they never told White-Ra in advance he had to play, just randomly called him up and was like "hey play now d00d!"?????????? Knowing Xeris I can say for 100% sure that he gave White-Ra ample notice.
This is not the first time White-Ra has had issues. He lost replays in the Day 9 KOTB, and didn't save his replays for the showmatch vs Bomber.
It's time players start acting like professionals, and NASL is forcing them to do that. Do you think if MVP had been 4 hours late for the GOM WC's without ever being in contact, he would have been still allowed to play?
Good job by NASL with this decision (although they should not made July decide, and auto-dq'd Ra in that match).
yup like it says NASL was told if whitera gets into the finals he couldnt play -.- so im pretty sure white ra assumed a reschedual
I specifically said... we can't postpone it. "April 11 @ 12:52 You can use laptop from SjoW -- he has I think. We cannot pp. =[[[ "
What is the prize pool of this first NASL? Exactly.. I'm surprised July woke up for it.
White-Ra always, always makes the most lucrative decisions. That is why he is still in e-sports at his age. He's got to maintain a woman and a house, you know.
i cannot understand how this should not be a nasl error? i mean it is their first season, so it's understandable. but as a professional league one should see these things coming (and they did apparently), and have the flexibility to avoid it with a good solution. Somehow playing with the laptob of another player in another location in a foreign country after beeing in the finals of a large tournament, which you communicate about during the tournament? Somehow it is a tournament which is not really live, and still can't even postpone a game when there is a very good reason? It's just not professional. You need to have a definitive solution a week before, not just pray he does not make it to the finals and then come up with a subsubpar solution.
On April 14 2011 15:37 niklassa wrote: i cannot understand how this should not be a nasl error? i mean it is their first season, so it's understandable. but as a professional league one should see these things coming (and they did apparently), and have the flexibility to avoid it with a good solution. Somehow playing with the laptob of another player in another location in a foreign country after beeing in the finals of a large tournament, which you communicate about during the tournament? Somehow it is a tournament which is not really live, and still can't even postpone a game when there is a very good reason? It's just not professional. You need to have a definitive solution a week before, not just pray he does not make it to the finals and then come up with a subsubpar solution.
Scheduling issues occasionally occur. I'm certain White-Ra was aware of the rules of such situations, and made the decision to go to the after party instead of trying to play his games vs. July. NASL did nothing wrong, and I think they gave White-Ra too much time, which probably wasn't fair to July.
Dreamhack is way more important than NASL round1 groupstage so I kinda understand whitera, but still cheers to the nasl organizers and july for waiting so long for him, I think good old Aleksey wont be mad about the match either.
On April 14 2011 15:37 niklassa wrote: i cannot understand how this should not be a nasl error? i mean it is their first season, so it's understandable. but as a professional league one should see these things coming (and they did apparently), and have the flexibility to avoid it with a good solution. Somehow playing with the laptob of another player in another location in a foreign country after beeing in the finals of a large tournament, which you communicate about during the tournament? Somehow it is a tournament which is not really live, and still can't even postpone a game when there is a very good reason? It's just not professional. You need to have a definitive solution a week before, not just pray he does not make it to the finals and then come up with a subsubpar solution.
Can you postpone any professional sports games? "Hey I can't come to my Olympics games because I'm playing in NBA Summer league, can you postpone my Olympic game? Thanks"
Ya, that's not going to happen. Won't happen in real sports, won't happen at NASL.
On April 14 2011 15:37 niklassa wrote: i cannot understand how this should not be a nasl error? i mean it is their first season, so it's understandable. but as a professional league one should see these things coming (and they did apparently), and have the flexibility to avoid it with a good solution. Somehow playing with the laptob of another player in another location in a foreign country after beeing in the finals of a large tournament, which you communicate about during the tournament? Somehow it is a tournament which is not really live, and still can't even postpone a game when there is a very good reason? It's just not professional. You need to have a definitive solution a week before, not just pray he does not make it to the finals and then come up with a subsubpar solution.
Can you postpone any professional sports games? "Hey I can't come to my Olympics games because I'm playing in NBA Summer league, can you postpone my Olympic game? Thanks"
Ya, that's not going to happen. Won't happen in real sports, won't happen at NASL.
Not the same thing. While July was properly prepared, he was most likely sitting in his own home comfortably.
While for Olympic games you need to fly yourself and your opponents to the same place for the actual match. Also Olympics is a very tight packed event (much more so then NASL.) So moving players / teams around and the space they would use is much more harder.
While July probably continued to practise / went to take a nap in his own bed / went to eat. Who knows, he was home.
Personally I think this was taken care of in the wrong way. If you knew he had a large event coming up (and iirc you guys said that these things would be taken into consideration), you guys should have prepared differently. Told for example July that the match might be postponed.
Is it fair for him? Not really, but if he was in the same position as White-Ra, I would expect him wanting the same thing.
Like said, you need to come up a solid solution. Relying on White-Ra to lose before finals is ridicolous. And there might have been chaos / problems after the event that hampered White-Ras efforts to get in contact / get to a computer.
And I find it funny how you guys are saying he should have played off a laptop some dude offered. Yeah, that'll make sure that he plays his best. Let's play a progame against one of the best Zergs on some laptop. Do you realize how much these type of things affect players? There's a reason why Flash takes a ruler to the booth when hes getting ready to play.
Just not professional imo, and sets NASL off to a bad start.
On April 14 2011 15:37 niklassa wrote: i cannot understand how this should not be a nasl error? i mean it is their first season, so it's understandable. but as a professional league one should see these things coming (and they did apparently), and have the flexibility to avoid it with a good solution. Somehow playing with the laptob of another player in another location in a foreign country after beeing in the finals of a large tournament, which you communicate about during the tournament? Somehow it is a tournament which is not really live, and still can't even postpone a game when there is a very good reason? It's just not professional. You need to have a definitive solution a week before, not just pray he does not make it to the finals and then come up with a subsubpar solution.
Can you postpone any professional sports games? "Hey I can't come to my Olympics games because I'm playing in NBA Summer league, can you postpone my Olympic game? Thanks"
Ya, that's not going to happen. Won't happen in real sports, won't happen at NASL.
Yeah thats the same thing....What NBA summer league player is even on the Olympic team? Do the NBA and Olympics withhold all their results so they can only show games played days beforehand? Its just weird to me that a league thats 100% VODs still manages to have scheduling conflicts. Wasnt there an issue with Streloks series today too? Trust me, this isnt the last time this is going to happen with the NASL.
And yea I do see the point in having more strict rules and call it a loss immediately at 45min, no longer wait. Or you could say that if the player informed them there could be a scheduling issue (like whitrera obviously did) they double that to 90min whereas if the player just straight up doesnt show up they stop waiting after 45min.
Unfortunate turn of events, but good decision making from NASL. I'm glad SjoW was able to play his matches despite being in a similar situation as White-Ra.
@whitewing, maybe they have such rules, then the rule is not professional. if it would be an offline event, whitera would not have attended at all nasl/dreamhack. but it is an online event, going on over a long period of time. certainly nasl doesnt suppose all player drop all other tournaments. there are other online leagues, far older then nasl (for example eps, european pro series by esl). they have clear rules for postponing etc., and there is no need for prefering certain players, still it allows to attend important events. that nasl simply cannot postpone matches is a (minor/major) flaw, especially since they dont seem able to schedule the matches to days, people have no finals of one of the biggest european lan tournaments? still i dont want to blame nasl too much (they make a lot of good things happen), but they should at least admit their mistakes, so they can learn. the nightend issue was already pretty bad, and they didnt really stand up and admit their fault either.
On April 14 2011 15:37 niklassa wrote: i cannot understand how this should not be a nasl error? i mean it is their first season, so it's understandable. but as a professional league one should see these things coming (and they did apparently), and have the flexibility to avoid it with a good solution. Somehow playing with the laptob of another player in another location in a foreign country after beeing in the finals of a large tournament, which you communicate about during the tournament? Somehow it is a tournament which is not really live, and still can't even postpone a game when there is a very good reason? It's just not professional. You need to have a definitive solution a week before, not just pray he does not make it to the finals and then come up with a subsubpar solution.
I understand he was obligated to perform in Dreamhack but he was ALSO obligated to perform in the NASL. Maybe I'm missing something when I read the title of PROGAMER and see PRO before GAMER, he's a professional and as explained earlier in the thread White-ra simply dropped off the face of the earth and stopped responding to the NASL staff (And was apparently later partying). Does that sound like professional conduct?
Should the NASL have air dropped a PC to White-Ra's location because he was in a different country? OR Should White-ra have anticipated that that he would have to play in another country and have prepared for such a situation? The NASL has already done a lot to ensure that there are as few schedule conflicts as possible but they can only do SO much. At some point the player has to be responsible and I think the NASL went above and beyond many other tournaments would have done.
I do believe that the NASL messed up when they gave July the final say in the situation, that is totally uncalled for because it puts him in the spotlight and could have come out looking bad (I would have taken the wins but I'm sure some people might feel pressured to reschedule and play another time).
On April 14 2011 05:31 trashcan wrote: Did White-Ra BM again? Why not just go to the lan center and play his games like Sjow instead of going out and celebrating losing 3-2? Really rude to NASL and fans.
I think he was required to stay and interact with Dreamhack fans...
So from reading the thread so far I've gathered that WhiteRa managed to enter two tournaments and had to play in them at the same time (if he advanced in dreamhack at least) But he didn't make arrangements in advance with either tournament to postpone his matches or to make sure he could play.
Then on the day of the tournament Xeris informs him they won't be able to postpone the match. Which is understandable considering the short notice and NASL tight schedule.
He then doesn't respond to either emails or calls when he has to play and NASL wait for 4 hours before awarding July the match.
And somehow half the people in this thread are angry at NASL? :s How on earth does that make sense. Some people just want to bitch and moan for the sake of it...
If people are actually taking the haters seriously, I would like to say it should be obvious to most people that NASL is a professional league and can't make exceptions or the whole situation would snowball.
Regretable but not NASL's fault. I'm loving the league so far guys, keep it up! More double Incontrol.
It really is good for NASL to stay strict on this. I hope if any similar problems arise to any pro gamer no matter who I hope they keep to theri decisions. Good move NASL really its good too see your not making exceptions even for white ra (who's a total baller btw ^_^)
While I am sad that we miss this epic clash of real titans (who does not feel electricity when he hears "JulyZerg versus White-Ra in a BO3"?) I understand that July got the free win. Keeping a tournament going on is too important.
Even though i'm a White-Ra fanboy it was nothing but fair for July to get a forfeit victory, 4 hours was more than fair. Hopefully we'll see White-Ra participate in the next NASL
funny how GSl has rearranged and made sure people can go to different places but NASL cant, surely knowing that they were at dreamhack should of at least offered to rearrange their game with another willing persons game. Im pretty sure a chance of how much was at dreamhack even the people running NASl wouldnt of given it up...
On April 14 2011 17:16 Tommylew wrote: funny how GSl has rearranged and made sure people can go to different places but NASL cant, surely knowing that they were at dreamhack should of at least offered to rearrange their game with another willing persons game. Im pretty sure a chance of how much was at dreamhack even the people running NASl wouldnt of given it up...
Yeah good point! Like when idrA had previously arranged with gomtv to leave korea for a european tournament... and at the last minute they changed their minds.
Oh wait, thats actually worse.
Kudos to NASL for having a rule, being considerate, and still enforcing it.
White-ra is a boss, he'll play awesome games, calm down trolls
On April 14 2011 16:34 Vorenius wrote: And somehow half the people in this thread are angry at NASL? :s How on earth does that make sense. Some people just want to bitch and moan for the sake of it...
It's not bitching for the sake of it -- fans and NASL subscribers have a right to be disappointed by the poor planning at work here considering that they could have avoided a conflict in the first place given that the NASL isn't live (which is why the comparison to real life sports events is nonsense).
The Dreamhack schedule was not a secret -- NASL should have switched the July-WhiteRa game with one of the games from a different group scheduled to play in one of the next 3 days (yes, this would mean that the entire group would not be playing simultaneously... but what does that matter?). They should have done this last week when it was known that WhiteRa was playing at Dreamhack. TSL3, for instance, had the foresight to not schedule any rounds of play at the same time as MLG.
Perhaps it doesn't seem completely fair to make special accommodations for particular players who have scheduling conflicts, but if NASL remains inflexible, then this won't be the last forfeiture. If suddenly the games aren't being played, the entire league is a joke (especially considering that the players most likely to have scheduling conflicts are the ones who are most well-known and likely to be higher in standings). This might not have been such a big deal but for the fact that July-WhiteRa was probably the most anticipated matchup of Group 2.
In the future, when there are conflicting live tournaments (you know, the kind that *can't* be rescheduled), it would be prudent of NASL to just automatically alter the schedule to move games to accommodate the players. Yes, this probably means having to send some e-mails around to other players to find suitable times, but it's probably worth it for the sake of the league. In the worst case scenario, perhaps one night will have 4 games and another will have 6. Or possibly the schedules of the casters will then conflict and the replays will have to be cast rather than a recorded live cast.
Be flexible. People with other professions have to deal with stuff analogous to this all the time.
On April 14 2011 14:05 CarelessPride wrote: if u read carefully u would realize whitera was never informed he had to play. -.- dream hack said no so u cant expect for white ra to respond to 2 emails and a phone call 45 mins b4 they want him to play. kinda like oh no school 2morrow kool. 6 am they call ur house and leave a message theres school! and they failed ur test cuz u didnt happen to come by 10. -.-
Where do you see this?
where do they say we informed white ra he had to play that day.? all they said was sjow found a place to play and informed white ra after waited 4 hours for his response. so all u get is a 4 hours of notice? who do u take white ra for? a substitute teacher?
Also are you seriously suggesting they never told White-Ra in advance he had to play, just randomly called him up and was like "hey play now d00d!"?????????? Knowing Xeris I can say for 100% sure that he gave White-Ra ample notice.
This is not the first time White-Ra has had issues. He lost replays in the Day 9 KOTB, and didn't save his replays for the showmatch vs Bomber.
It's time players start acting like professionals, and NASL is forcing them to do that. Do you think if MVP had been 4 hours late for the GOM WC's without ever being in contact, he would have been still allowed to play?
Good job by NASL with this decision (although they should not made July decide, and auto-dq'd Ra in that match).
yup like it says NASL was told if whitera gets into the finals he couldnt play -.- so im pretty sure white ra assumed a reschedual
Stop making up assumptions ffs. NASL handled the situation properly. Use some common sense: July vs White Ra was the BIGGEST MATCH of the day. You really think NASL didn't try to make that happen? Do you even think before you whine?
On April 14 2011 16:34 Vorenius wrote: And somehow half the people in this thread are angry at NASL? :s How on earth does that make sense. Some people just want to bitch and moan for the sake of it...
It's not bitching for the sake of it -- fans and NASL subscribers have a right to be disappointed by the poor planning at work here considering that they could have avoided a conflict in the first place given that the NASL isn't live (which is why the comparison to real life sports events is nonsense).
The Dreamhack schedule was not a secret -- NASL should have switched the July-WhiteRa game with one of the games from a different group scheduled to play in one of the next 3 days (yes, this would mean that the entire group would not be playing simultaneously... but what does that matter?). They should have done this last week when it was known that WhiteRa was playing at Dreamhack. TSL3, for instance, had the foresight to not schedule any rounds of play at the same time as MLG.
Perhaps it doesn't seem completely fair to make special accommodations for particular players who have scheduling conflicts, but if NASL remains inflexible, then this won't be the last forfeiture. If suddenly the games aren't being played, the entire league is a joke (especially considering that the players most likely to have scheduling conflicts are the ones who are most well-known and likely to be higher in standings). This might not have been such a big deal but for the fact that July-WhiteRa was probably the most anticipated matchup of Group 2.
In the future, when there are conflicting live tournaments (you know, the kind that *can't* be rescheduled), it would be prudent of NASL to just automatically alter the schedule to move games to accommodate the players. Yes, this probably means having to send some e-mails around to other players to find suitable times, but it's probably worth it for the sake of the league. In the worst case scenario, perhaps one night will have 4 games and another will have 6. Or possibly the schedules of the casters will then conflict and the replays will have to be cast rather than a recorded live cast.
Be flexible. People with other professions have to deal with stuff analogous to this all the time.
Why exactly is the onus on NASL here? Why aren't you equally mad at Dreamhack for not rescheduling? Or why is it not the players' fault for not managing their shit? Or do you think pro players should just sign up for every tournament in the world and if it they don't show up, it's the tournament hosters' fault?
Sorry, but your arguments are full of holes. NASL is an arbitrary party to blame just so you can blame someone.
On April 14 2011 10:33 PraetorianX wrote: And how do you guys know that White-Ra was even aware of this LAN center? How do you know he turned off his phone, maybe the battery died? You just assume he was out getting drunk and not giving a damn.
See now you're just making up random assumptions with no basis in fact.
People should just stop blaiming anyone. Shit happens.
Whitera maybe knew about the lan center, maybe not. Maybe there was some other thing that got mixed up, maybe he needed to pay more attention. Maybe he was pissed.
Cool from July to wait 4h and NASL shouldn't even leave him with the decision. It's bad for Whitera if it was a complete accident and he really wanted to play but can't help it anymore.
It's not July's, Whitera's or NASL's fault really. We don't know the happenings in the background so everyone should just accept the fact as it is and move along.
On April 14 2011 16:34 Vorenius wrote: And somehow half the people in this thread are angry at NASL? :s How on earth does that make sense. Some people just want to bitch and moan for the sake of it...
It's not bitching for the sake of it -- fans and NASL subscribers have a right to be disappointed by the poor planning at work here considering that they could have avoided a conflict in the first place given that the NASL isn't live (which is why the comparison to real life sports events is nonsense).
The Dreamhack schedule was not a secret -- NASL should have switched the July-WhiteRa game with one of the games from a different group scheduled to play in one of the next 3 days (yes, this would mean that the entire group would not be playing simultaneously... but what does that matter?). They should have done this last week when it was known that WhiteRa was playing at Dreamhack. TSL3, for instance, had the foresight to not schedule any rounds of play at the same time as MLG.
Perhaps it doesn't seem completely fair to make special accommodations for particular players who have scheduling conflicts, but if NASL remains inflexible, then this won't be the last forfeiture. If suddenly the games aren't being played, the entire league is a joke (especially considering that the players most likely to have scheduling conflicts are the ones who are most well-known and likely to be higher in standings). This might not have been such a big deal but for the fact that July-WhiteRa was probably the most anticipated matchup of Group 2.
In the future, when there are conflicting live tournaments (you know, the kind that *can't* be rescheduled), it would be prudent of NASL to just automatically alter the schedule to move games to accommodate the players. Yes, this probably means having to send some e-mails around to other players to find suitable times, but it's probably worth it for the sake of the league. In the worst case scenario, perhaps one night will have 4 games and another will have 6. Or possibly the schedules of the casters will then conflict and the replays will have to be cast rather than a recorded live cast.
Be flexible. People with other professions have to deal with stuff analogous to this all the time.
For every analogy you can make up I can make up one equally good for occasions where being flexible isn't possible or has its limits.
On April 14 2011 17:29 Paradice wrote: I'm happy that NASL is taking this stuff seriously, setting the precedent. Players will be clear where they stand after this.
I'm sad that we won't see WhiteRa vs July
i am glad they take it seriously, but i dont like it when they, imo, forfit the best match of the week, the one i would pay to watch >.<
There may be nothing he could do about missing the original time, But it's literally 100% on him to contact someone, actually communicate, attempt to find a computer etc... He emailed, then nothing. It's his responsibility to make the match, and even if it could be postponed...he has to say when he'd like it postponed to.
The matches are played 1 day ahead of their casting, it was already the evening when he asked to postpone it...so when theoretically would he have played it? It would have had to have been at least after the party, after he went to sleep and woke up...like 16 hours later?
When did he plan on playing it? Was he ever gonna let anyone know?
I think this sort of thing will come up again, and I think the message everyone involved should get out of it is it's the Player himself who needs to initiate alternative arrangements, and it's the player himself who accepts the consequences if he doesn't.
To me the ball is in every individual player's court, they've got to go out of their way to make it happen and communicate.
I also think this may be slightly a problem with the 'DuckLoad' team thing. I remember NASL saying they wanted everyone involved to be on a Team, But DuckLoad isn't like Liquid or oGs or EG or something, It's really just White-Ra Part of the reason Geoff said he wanted the team thing is because if Tyler's phone dies, they can call Jinro, TLO, Haypro etc.... to get in touch with him. That's kinda what didn't work here. If July overslept, he's got a whole house to wake him up. (possibly with a PokeFlute)
So as far as i understand WhiteRa's match was sheduled almost at the same time as dreamhack start, july wakes up at the start of a dream hack waiting for white ra to hopefully lose fast and get their games on. That doesnt happen WhiteRa gets to the finals while july waits for hours, nasl told whitera unless he is out early he will forfeit, so he assumes he forfeited and goes to the after party, while nasl decides to try to contact asap since july is still waiting sending him an email and trying to call him ( btw when i go between u.s russia and europe i cant use my normal phone and need to buy prepaid sim cards one the reason whitera might not have answered). Seems silly to me for nasl not to try and be more flexible, best solution obviously would have been to play those games in korea while both of them were still there, or move the game to different date and play along with other grps. There is nothing wrong with making exceptions once in awile, and couldnt have asked sjow to relay the info to whitera if they were trying so hard to contact him or another progamer?
I don't get it why ppl say this was a fair decision. NASL should've know about Dreamhack it's a pretty big event (LOL), and never even schedule White-Ra or Sjow for this day.
On April 14 2011 18:44 Ottoxlol wrote: I don't get it why ppl say this was a fair decision. NASL should've know about Dreamhack it's a pretty big event (LOL), and never even schedule White-Ra or Sjow for this day.
except no1 knew Sjow would play at Dreamhack until monday (when Boxer said he wouldn't come). White-ra however should have never been scheduled for that day.
On April 14 2011 16:34 Vorenius wrote: And somehow half the people in this thread are angry at NASL? :s How on earth does that make sense. Some people just want to bitch and moan for the sake of it...
It's not bitching for the sake of it -- fans and NASL subscribers have a right to be disappointed by the poor planning at work here considering that they could have avoided a conflict in the first place given that the NASL isn't live (which is why the comparison to real life sports events is nonsense).
The Dreamhack schedule was not a secret -- NASL should have switched the July-WhiteRa game with one of the games from a different group scheduled to play in one of the next 3 days (yes, this would mean that the entire group would not be playing simultaneously... but what does that matter?). They should have done this last week when it was known that WhiteRa was playing at Dreamhack. TSL3, for instance, had the foresight to not schedule any rounds of play at the same time as MLG.
Perhaps it doesn't seem completely fair to make special accommodations for particular players who have scheduling conflicts, but if NASL remains inflexible, then this won't be the last forfeiture. If suddenly the games aren't being played, the entire league is a joke (especially considering that the players most likely to have scheduling conflicts are the ones who are most well-known and likely to be higher in standings). This might not have been such a big deal but for the fact that July-WhiteRa was probably the most anticipated matchup of Group 2.
In the future, when there are conflicting live tournaments (you know, the kind that *can't* be rescheduled), it would be prudent of NASL to just automatically alter the schedule to move games to accommodate the players. Yes, this probably means having to send some e-mails around to other players to find suitable times, but it's probably worth it for the sake of the league. In the worst case scenario, perhaps one night will have 4 games and another will have 6. Or possibly the schedules of the casters will then conflict and the replays will have to be cast rather than a recorded live cast.
Be flexible. People with other professions have to deal with stuff analogous to this all the time.
Can agree with that but you also have to consider that they let quite some time to White-Ra to react and try and reschedule the game - he could have at least try and contact them. It's NASL second day, if they start rescheduling stuff on their second day of activities, it's the door open to pretty much everyone starting doing the same thing in the coming days...it's a bit early for that in my opinion; this kind of situation should remain an exception and deciding of a walkover is probably the best way to handle it for now (and I'm telling this although I cheer for White-Ra)
I think it's fair decision. White-Ra had tough shedule - just returned from Korea, playing GSL, TSL and than immidiately went to Sweden to dreamhack. He was probably just tired, he is no young man to play so many tournaments with traveling to different places in such short period. So let July to have a little party, we all know that White-Ra will rest and show everyone who is the boss
On April 14 2011 15:37 niklassa wrote: i cannot understand how this should not be a nasl error? i mean it is their first season, so it's understandable. but as a professional league one should see these things coming (and they did apparently), and have the flexibility to avoid it with a good solution. Somehow playing with the laptob of another player in another location in a foreign country after beeing in the finals of a large tournament, which you communicate about during the tournament? Somehow it is a tournament which is not really live, and still can't even postpone a game when there is a very good reason? It's just not professional. You need to have a definitive solution a week before, not just pray he does not make it to the finals and then come up with a subsubpar solution.
Can you postpone any professional sports games? "Hey I can't come to my Olympics games because I'm playing in NBA Summer league, can you postpone my Olympic game? Thanks"
Ya, that's not going to happen. Won't happen in real sports, won't happen at NASL.
Real sports even if they are not cast live don't have replays. EDIT : eh the formulation was about posponing. Yea posponing is impossible, but rescheduling for earlier date beforehand ?
The NASL is a gigantic tourney that will be played out over the next 12 Weeks. There are 50 players in Division play alone. There is a huge open tourney to begin in the next stage. People will miss games. Things will happen. This is simply another challenge of coordinating a global eSports tourney. Its one thing that makes this genre amazing, but is also an obstacle. As eSports fans, we should be happy there are global scheduling conflicts.
Any chance the title could be changed so that those of us who have to rely on the rebroadcast don't have results spoiled? Just something like 'NASL July v White-Ra [spoiler]'? I know it's not really the same as having the result of a 'proper' game spoiled, but I think I'd still prefer to be able to browse TL without absorbing info like this.
On April 14 2011 20:10 captive411 wrote: The NASL is a gigantic tourney that will be played out over the next 12 Weeks. There are 50 players in Division play alone. There is a huge open tourney to begin in the next stage. People will miss games. Things will happen. This is simply another challenge of coordinating a global eSports tourney. Its one thing that makes this genre amazing, but is also an obstacle. As eSports fans, we should be happy there are global scheduling conflicts.
What I like about your point and this decision, even though I was as well disappointed, is that it was overall fair not just to White-Ra and July, but also to all of the other players that did make it on time. If they changed the rules just because White-Ra had another event, then all of the players would want them to change the rules for them as well. Artosis could be like "Hey, I gotta cast a game, everyone reschedule for me!" (Even though I know he would not do that).
Then the question becomes where do you draw the line? When is someone's "other stuff" more important than the league? Could Incontrol have tried something like that? I have to cast the NASL, so you have to reschedule my NASL. What if another popular caster, like Day9 or something was playing in the tourney? Could he have things changed because he is busy with school and the Dailys?
I think this is important because it is not only the rules, but setting precedent for all players to be treated fairly.
On April 14 2011 14:05 CarelessPride wrote: if u read carefully u would realize whitera was never informed he had to play. -.- dream hack said no so u cant expect for white ra to respond to 2 emails and a phone call 45 mins b4 they want him to play. kinda like oh no school 2morrow kool. 6 am they call ur house and leave a message theres school! and they failed ur test cuz u didnt happen to come by 10. -.-
he never has been informed that he could actually reschedule to another day either... so he just ignores any more e-mails and thinks everything is fine and dandy?
it doesn't work that way.
the NASL schedule has been published for quite some time now, many people here are acting as if they could say "well fuck that!" and start throwing out games in a random order starting on day2... and then you go watch an IEM broadcast and complain about them not sticking to their schedule 100%, lol
On April 14 2011 14:05 CarelessPride wrote: if u read carefully u would realize whitera was never informed he had to play. -.- dream hack said no so u cant expect for white ra to respond to 2 emails and a phone call 45 mins b4 they want him to play. kinda like oh no school 2morrow kool. 6 am they call ur house and leave a message theres school! and they failed ur test cuz u didnt happen to come by 10. -.-
Where do you see this?
where do they say we informed white ra he had to play that day.? all they said was sjow found a place to play and informed white ra after waited 4 hours for his response. so all u get is a 4 hours of notice? who do u take white ra for? a substitute teacher?
Also are you seriously suggesting they never told White-Ra in advance he had to play, just randomly called him up and was like "hey play now d00d!"?????????? Knowing Xeris I can say for 100% sure that he gave White-Ra ample notice.
This is not the first time White-Ra has had issues. He lost replays in the Day 9 KOTB, and didn't save his replays for the showmatch vs Bomber.
It's time players start acting like professionals, and NASL is forcing them to do that. Do you think if MVP had been 4 hours late for the GOM WC's without ever being in contact, he would have been still allowed to play?
Good job by NASL with this decision (although they should not made July decide, and auto-dq'd Ra in that match).
yup like it says NASL was told if whitera gets into the finals he couldnt play -.- so im pretty sure white ra assumed a reschedual
you can't fucking ASSUME stuff as a professional player in a big ass tournament like the NASL with a $100k on the line.
On April 14 2011 15:37 niklassa wrote: i cannot understand how this should not be a nasl error? i mean it is their first season, so it's understandable. but as a professional league one should see these things coming (and they did apparently), and have the flexibility to avoid it with a good solution. Somehow playing with the laptob of another player in another location in a foreign country after beeing in the finals of a large tournament, which you communicate about during the tournament? Somehow it is a tournament which is not really live, and still can't even postpone a game when there is a very good reason? It's just not professional. You need to have a definitive solution a week before, not just pray he does not make it to the finals and then come up with a subsubpar solution.
Can you postpone any professional sports games? "Hey I can't come to my Olympics games because I'm playing in NBA Summer league, can you postpone my Olympic game? Thanks"
Ya, that's not going to happen. Won't happen in real sports, won't happen at NASL.
Yeah thats the same thing....What NBA summer league player is even on the Olympic team? Do the NBA and Olympics withhold all their results so they can only show games played days beforehand? Its just weird to me that a league thats 100% VODs still manages to have scheduling conflicts. Wasnt there an issue with Streloks series today too? Trust me, this isnt the last time this is going to happen with the NASL.
I don't think you know what the NBA Summer League is, but that's not the point. While the exact situation is different, the principle of what Xeris said is true: if you agree on a time to play your match, you need to show up and play it. It isn't the league's fault that one player didn't take responsibility and show up.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Hell I don't care who my opponent was, if I waited 4 hours and they didn't show I'd take the win too.
On April 14 2011 21:15 tezul wrote: why the person running the tournament playing on it watch incontrol win. he could be cheating some can tell him what his opponent is doin.
What? The way the tournament is set up it all but prevents cheating. I don't see how iNcontrol would be able to abuse it anymore than anyone else.
The problem was scheduling WhiteRa to play today in the first place. However, it is also not NASL's fault. In general it just shows that there should be better coordination between major tournaments. It was a bad idea to schedule WhiteRa the same day as DreamHack. However, this is not purely NASL's fault, as WhiteRa knew perfectly well (or should have known) that he had a scheduling conflict the moment he accepted the date/time for both tournaments.
What I do feel is that it is mainly NASL's PROBLEM: July vs. WhiteRa was (by far) the most anticipated match for day 2. To WhiteRa this is an unfortunate loss. To July this is a night of sleep interrupted, but to NASL this is a publicity headache on the second day of their tournament. While NASL is thus not solely to blame for the problem, they did have the most to lose by it. It seems to me that with a little bit of foresight by the organizers (or WhiteRa, but once again, to him this is only a lost game in the group stage) this whole problem could've been avoided. As such the onus is mainly on them to prevent such fuckups from occurring again.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Hell I don't care who my opponent was, if I waited 4 hours and they didn't show I'd take the win too.
Exactly. Imagine getting up at 4 AM, and waiting 4 hours for somebody you don't even know to show up. I'd totally take the free win too!
Shame we couldn't see this matchup, though
Oh, and as a side note, does anyone else find it funny that threads, which start off with nice comments for the first page, just get worse as more people post? It should get better! -_-
On April 14 2011 14:05 CarelessPride wrote: if u read carefully u would realize whitera was never informed he had to play. -.- dream hack said no so u cant expect for white ra to respond to 2 emails and a phone call 45 mins b4 they want him to play. kinda like oh no school 2morrow kool. 6 am they call ur house and leave a message theres school! and they failed ur test cuz u didnt happen to come by 10. -.-
Where do you see this?
where do they say we informed white ra he had to play that day.? all they said was sjow found a place to play and informed white ra after waited 4 hours for his response. so all u get is a 4 hours of notice? who do u take white ra for? a substitute teacher?
Also are you seriously suggesting they never told White-Ra in advance he had to play, just randomly called him up and was like "hey play now d00d!"?????????? Knowing Xeris I can say for 100% sure that he gave White-Ra ample notice.
This is not the first time White-Ra has had issues. He lost replays in the Day 9 KOTB, and didn't save his replays for the showmatch vs Bomber.
It's time players start acting like professionals, and NASL is forcing them to do that. Do you think if MVP had been 4 hours late for the GOM WC's without ever being in contact, he would have been still allowed to play?
Good job by NASL with this decision (although they should not made July decide, and auto-dq'd Ra in that match).
yup like it says NASL was told if whitera gets into the finals he couldnt play -.- so im pretty sure white ra assumed a reschedual
I specifically said... we can't postpone it. "April 11 @ 12:52 You can use laptop from SjoW -- he has I think. We cannot pp. =[[[ "
when i read "pp" my mind was thinking really hard.... We cannot please pause.... hmm that doesnt make sense, was white ra pausing his match to talk to Xeris? after a while i figured out it was postpone ((
On April 14 2011 15:37 niklassa wrote: i cannot understand how this should not be a nasl error? i mean it is their first season, so it's understandable. but as a professional league one should see these things coming (and they did apparently), and have the flexibility to avoid it with a good solution. Somehow playing with the laptob of another player in another location in a foreign country after beeing in the finals of a large tournament, which you communicate about during the tournament? Somehow it is a tournament which is not really live, and still can't even postpone a game when there is a very good reason? It's just not professional. You need to have a definitive solution a week before, not just pray he does not make it to the finals and then come up with a subsubpar solution.
Can you postpone any professional sports games? "Hey I can't come to my Olympics games because I'm playing in NBA Summer league, can you postpone my Olympic game? Thanks"
Ya, that's not going to happen. Won't happen in real sports, won't happen at NASL.
Yeah thats the same thing....What NBA summer league player is even on the Olympic team? Do the NBA and Olympics withhold all their results so they can only show games played days beforehand? Its just weird to me that a league thats 100% VODs still manages to have scheduling conflicts. Wasnt there an issue with Streloks series today too? Trust me, this isnt the last time this is going to happen with the NASL.
I don't think you know what the NBA Summer League is, but that's not the point. While the exact situation is different, the principle of what Xeris said is true: if you agree on a time to play your match, you need to show up and play it. It isn't the league's fault that one player didn't take responsibility and show up.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Hell I don't care who my opponent was, if I waited 4 hours and they didn't show I'd take the win too.
Do YOU know what the summer league is? I know exactly what it is...but Im not sure you do if you think Kobe, Amare Stoudamire, or Chauncey Billups would be practicing with the summer league team, especially during an olympic year. Weird how Dwight Howard is on the Olympic team but not the summer league team, isnt it. I also find it funny how NASL is compared to the Olympics in that example while Dreamhack is the summer league in that example.
if he was out partying, pretty dick move to make july wait 4 hours. or maybe he thought NASL wouldn't bend the rules for him? if WR was all sad from having lost, he could've called someone and july could've gone back to sleep.
On April 14 2011 21:58 Sanjuro wrote: when i read "pp" my mind was thinking really hard.... We cannot please pause.... hmm that doesnt make sense, was white ra pausing his match to talk to Xeris? after a while i figured out it was postpone ((
There's no way you can tell me a major tournament player doesn't know what pp meant.
I mean this is why they announced the entry fee and team responsibility. So people wouldn't do this. You'd think after months of them talking about holding players to a higher accountability he might have caught on.
On April 14 2011 21:58 Sanjuro wrote: when i read "pp" my mind was thinking really hard.... We cannot please pause.... hmm that doesnt make sense, was white ra pausing his match to talk to Xeris? after a while i figured out it was postpone ((
There's no way you can tell me a major tournament player doesn't know what pp meant.
I mean this is why they announced the entry fee and team responsibility. So people wouldn't do this. You'd think after months of them talking about holding players to a higher accountability he might have caught on.
Yes, I'm sure it's common knowledge for every non English speaker that pp means postpone. White-ra's English is bad enough as is.
And just to be clear I do agree with the NASL decision. If you can't make the schedule you get an auto-loss. Pretty simple. No reason to make such a big drama of it.
White-Ra was in a foreign country, he doesn't speak sweden. How is he supposed to know all internet clubs in Stockholm? How is he supposed to answer emails while playing the final games vs MC?
Sjow on the other hand is Sweden, and he was eliminated hours earlier.
Obviously a final game in a major tournament means more than a division game. There is very little we can blame NASL for, but blaming White-Ra is total BS.
On April 14 2011 22:22 Alexj wrote: White-Ra was in a foreign country, he doesn't speak sweden. How is he supposed to know all internet clubs in Stockholm? How is he supposed to answer emails while playing the final games vs MC?
Sjow on the other hand is Sweden, and he was eliminated hours earlier.
Obviously a final game in a major tournament means more than a division game. There is very little we can blame NASL for, but blaming White-Ra is total BS.
Every player in the NASL got a full, complete schedule of their matches weeks ago. White-Ra isn't some college student that forgets to go to a club meeting after classes because of a conflict with a professor's office hours. He's a professional Starcraft 2 player and should have taken measures before Dreamhack to contact NASL or find a way through a Swede at the tournament to keep in touch with NASL. Yes, higher standards do apply to these players. They aren't just run of the mill gamers.
id really like to hear whitera comment on this and less ridiculous fanboy/hater opinions untill he does.
white-ra is my favorite european player but im pretty dissappointed about this and hope its not an indicator of white-ra in the future.
you can be disappointed in nasl and july, but if you wanna blame someone the only legit person to blame is white-ra. that being said i am disappointed in nasl for not figuring out something earlier because this was easily gonna be one of the top 3 matchups in the 9 week bracket season and its entirely possible they wont play again even if they reach the end of the lan part of the tournament.
On April 14 2011 22:22 Alexj wrote: White-Ra was in a foreign country, he doesn't speak sweden. How is he supposed to know all internet clubs in Stockholm? How is he supposed to answer emails while playing the final games vs MC?
Sjow on the other hand is Sweden, and he was eliminated hours earlier.
Obviously a final game in a major tournament means more than a division game. There is very little we can blame NASL for, but blaming White-Ra is total BS.
Oh come on, he was there with all the other progamers and I'm pretty sure if he had asked Sjow or anyone else (Jinro is swedish, TLO probably knows Stockholm quite well by now, Morrow is swedish too) they would've helped him find some place for him to get his games done... Xeris even told him to ask Sjow. It's White-Ra! Nobody would have turned him down there.
You're right, he can't answer while playing. But that's why they waited 3 more hours afterwards :|
And how was Sjow eliminated HOURS earlier? He lost the semis to White-Ra and then the Final started like 15-20 minutes afterwards. And Sjow didn't rush out then, he was still on stage with all the other players after the Finals were over and MC got his money...
It's really unfortunate, but from the information we have there is really nobody to blame except for White-Ra
If July sits there ready to play for 4 hours no one can fault him for not going for a rescheduling. If White_Ra can't make it he has to notify the league and not waste his opponent's time.
New accounts made to defend a certain individual?!
@the people who think July is making a greedy decision by taking the win, let's see how you like it when that happens to you. @people making excuses to cover WhiteRa about him getting cheesed in DH, go back to the DH thread and whine there.
WR was irresponsible for not following through with the organizers, what more is there?
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
honestly the least white-ra could have done was tell nasl hes too ______? to play his game right now so july can go back to sleep and not let his fans blame july when its entirely his own fault.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
At that point rescheduling was not an option, they should have rescheduled it long before DH, but that did not happen and so win for July is perfectly reasonable. Also why can't you just argue your point and not take low jabs at July.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
At that point rescheduling was not an option, they should have rescheduled it long before DH, but that did not happen and so win for July is perfectly reasonable. Also why can't you just argue your point and not take low jabs at July.
How was rescheduling not an option? The original post says "After four hours of waiting, we gave July the choice to take a free win or reschedule". Why cant I take jabs at July? It was a game I was really looking forward to.
I can just give my insight. White-Ra have mailed NASL several times and I think myself I sent in total four mails to explain the situation. I think it's a strange move from NASL to lock people to play a certain weekday for 9 weeks without wildcards. I can just say that White-Ra and I did everything to try to solve this but it seems it was impossible.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
At that point rescheduling was not an option, they should have rescheduled it long before DH, but that did not happen and so win for July is perfectly reasonable. Also why can't you just argue your point and not take low jabs at July.
How was rescheduling not an option? The original post says "After four hours of waiting, we gave July the choice to take a free win or reschedule". Why cant I take jabs at July? It was a game I was really looking forward to.
Think about July, he got up at 4am in the middle of the night, then the dude doesn't show up after 45minutes, you decide to wait another 3hours and 15minutes... it's 8am by now and then they ask you wether you want to get up at 4am again on another day risking that he won't show up again or you'll just leave it at that and take the game...
I cann totally understand July's decision... NASL should have given him the win right away and not put the decision up to him.
if july was gonna pick reschedule he would have done it before white-ra made him wait for 4 hours after making him wake up at 4 in the morning. white-ras actions showed july disrespect personally. thats what it comes down to and why if your mad anyone is a better choice to get mad at than july.
i cant stress this enough, theres no 1 person to blame, but no matter what dont blame july. who can say they wouldent be mad if their friend told them to meet someplace the next day at 4am, then when you wake up ready to meet your friend he makes you wait 4 hours while his phone is off. especially when the 3 most likely reasons for missing it were drinking/sleeping/being pissed off.
On April 14 2011 23:56 Hellspawnl wrote: I can just give my insight. White-Ra have mailed NASL several times and I think myself I sent in total four mails to explain the situation. I think it's a strange move from NASL to lock people to play a certain weekday for 9 weeks without wildcards. I can just say that White-Ra and I did everything to try to solve this but it seems it was impossible.
They don't even need to give wildcards, it is easily possible to create strict and clear rules to accommodate schedule changes by casting from replays, which should not matter to them as they are not broadcasting live. And for people saying they have such a busy schedule that it would mean a lot of organizational work, worst case scenario is that on average about 1 game a week would have to be casted from replays. That is not such a big amount of work to organize one referee and two players to play at mutually agreed time.
I hate how we've gotten to the point where someone always has to be blamed for everything. The players involved have most likely already moved on from this and let it go, so should we. Seems to me like a simple situation of circumstances that coupled with some miscommunication lead to an unfortunate result. Doesn't mean White-Ra can't still win more games in the NASL, or July is a bad guy for just taking the wins, or the NASL is unreasonable. Isn't it for once just possible that things didn't work out as planned and although unfortunate everyone can just learn a bit and move on? Sometimes in life that bad timing and unfortunate S*** just happens...
In the spectrum of things, and even of this season of the NASL it isn't really that big of a deal.
There are 2 different issues. First is if NASL should have rescheduled the game to a different day. This depends on how far ahread of time NASL was informed of a possible conflict, as it is not their responsibility to check the schedule of all other tournaments for their players. Obviously if the first they hear of it is less than 24 hours before the games there isn't much they can do. That said NASL has chosen a format that is very inflexible to players without significant advanced notice and so I would not be at all surprised to see this sort of issue again. I have not seen anything saying when NASL was informed of a possible conflict with White-ra so we don't know where the problem was there yet.
The second issue is White-ra making the finals and asking for a postponement. People somehow have the idea that White-ra intentionally made July wait because he is a jerk or something. White-ra tells NASL he made finals and asks for postponement, NASL says they can't postpone. What happens after that is really unknown until White-ra says anything about it. Maybe he thought he forfeit already and went to the party, maybe there was a mistranslation about the LAN he didn't understand, maybe he didn't think he had time anyway, or maybe he really did not care about the match. Some of these situations, as people have pointed out, are reasonable for White-ra and others he failed to keep in contact with NASL. More importantly, I wouldn't blame anyone until the circumstances are known.
I am sure all parties wanted this match to be played at some point. Both July and White-ra would have been aware it was an anticipated match. July should be credited for staying as late as he did, and while a reschedule would have been preferred for the spectators, I don't think him taking a win is greedy from his position. The most important thing is, regardless of blame, everyone can learn and take steps to help prevent this sort of thing in the future.
On April 15 2011 00:02 Alver wrote: if july was gonna pick reschedule he would have done it before white-ra made him wait for 4 hours after making him wake up at 4 in the morning. white-ras actions showed july disrespect personally. thats what it comes down to and why if your mad anyone is a better choice to get mad at than july.
i cant stress this enough, theres no 1 person to blame, but no matter what dont blame july. who can say they wouldent be mad if their friend told them to meet someplace the next day at 4am, then when you wake up ready to meet your friend he makes you wait 4 hours while his phone is off. especially when the 3 most likely reasons for missing it were drinking/sleeping/being pissed off.
White-Ra didn't ask to wait 4 hours. NASL should have waited 45 min as stated in rules, well maybe an hour because of dreamhack, and just give a win to July. That's July and NASL own fault to prolong this. Probably by doing this they showed a respect for a player like White-ra, so I hope White-Ra will apologize for this unfortunate incident and things go well again
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
At that point rescheduling was not an option, they should have rescheduled it long before DH, but that did not happen and so win for July is perfectly reasonable. Also why can't you just argue your point and not take low jabs at July.
How was rescheduling not an option? The original post says "After four hours of waiting, we gave July the choice to take a free win or reschedule". Why cant I take jabs at July? It was a game I was really looking forward to.
Think about July, he got up at 4am in the middle of the night, then the dude doesn't show up after 45minutes, you decide to wait another 3hours and 15minutes... it's 8am by now and then they ask you wether you want to get up at 4am again on another day risking that he won't show up again or you'll just leave it at that and take the game...
I cann totally understand July's decision... NASL should have given him the win right away and not put the decision up to him.
Would they have had to reschedule for the same time? Maybe they could have made White-Ra get up at 4am instead since he didnt make it the first time. That way it is at least somewhat fair yah know?
I just hate some ppl saying WR BMed July by making him wait for 4 hours. It's really weird to think that someone can intentionally do that. Most probably he just didn't have an idea they are still waiting for him, for instance his iphone may have gone off and he assumed he got an auto loss after 45 minutes. Also it's BS that NASL tried really hard to contact whitera. They did contact sjow, was it so hard to check what's up with whitera through him? They didn't care enough to reschedule beforehand and they didn't put any effort into trying to contact him after the finals. Some people say it was Whitera's job to contact NASL but seriously given the circumstances NASL was in a much better position to do that. Whitera right after the finals with all the fans and adrenaline rush thinking he's already late and NASL guys just waiting for him in leather chairs and chilling.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Guys, guys, guys. Let it go. There are plenty of games left it's not like he's out of the running yet. This is supposed to be a pretty massive tournament. White-Ra can afford to give the opponents a little bit of a handicap.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
It's so absurd you would rage about that. Everyone is in this to win it, why the hell would July wait four hours just to reschedule? July even had to get up at 4 am..
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
At that point rescheduling was not an option, they should have rescheduled it long before DH, but that did not happen and so win for July is perfectly reasonable. Also why can't you just argue your point and not take low jabs at July.
How was rescheduling not an option? The original post says "After four hours of waiting, we gave July the choice to take a free win or reschedule". Why cant I take jabs at July? It was a game I was really looking forward to.
Think about July, he got up at 4am in the middle of the night, then the dude doesn't show up after 45minutes, you decide to wait another 3hours and 15minutes... it's 8am by now and then they ask you wether you want to get up at 4am again on another day risking that he won't show up again or you'll just leave it at that and take the game...
I cann totally understand July's decision... NASL should have given him the win right away and not put the decision up to him.
Would they have had to reschedule for the same time? Maybe they could have made White-Ra get up at 4am instead since he didnt make it the first time. That way it is at least somewhat fair yah know?
I think all the times come down to when the NASL team is in the studio and not about when the players would have to get up, so koreans might always have the short end of the stick in that regard.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
Of course in that case you win by showing up, or more like, you lose by not showing up.
If people miss their call to play at MLG, they lose... If people don't show up at ESL they lose. If people don't make it in time to the Golf Tournament they signed up to, they lose.
why do i even reply to that post... ffs stop trolling being stupid
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
How whould you feel if you have to wake up 4 in the morning to play and your opponent didn't show up. The rule of nasl clearly stated that after 45min if one not showing up means forfeit. He then have to wait another 4 hour and nasl make him choose rather or not you reschedule the game. And please don't make excuse for whitera. Sjow leave dreamhack same time as whitera. WhiteRa is the one went to the afterparty. He got 4 hours to find any location with pc and he can play. There is so many Sweden players around I'm sure one of them would help.
Why is everyone jumping on July about taking the forfeit? July followed all the rules and allotted an extra four hours even though the NASL rule is 45 MINUTES for a forfeit. It is not like he jumped on the opportunity to take the forfeit immediately.
We also don't know what the "reschedule" even consisted of. White-Ra was put into the position that because of DreamHack he was not able to attend his NASL match. For all we know July was also put into the situation were a reschedule would conflict with other tournaments or alter his schedule in a manner that would be determinant to him.
I would have loved to watch July vs White-Ra, but I don't blame either of them for the situation.
On April 15 2011 00:02 Alver wrote: if july was gonna pick reschedule he would have done it before white-ra made him wait for 4 hours after making him wake up at 4 in the morning. white-ras actions showed july disrespect personally. thats what it comes down to and why if your mad anyone is a better choice to get mad at than july.
i cant stress this enough, theres no 1 person to blame, but no matter what dont blame july. who can say they wouldent be mad if their friend told them to meet someplace the next day at 4am, then when you wake up ready to meet your friend he makes you wait 4 hours while his phone is off. especially when the 3 most likely reasons for missing it were drinking/sleeping/being pissed off.
White-Ra didn't ask to wait 4 hours. NASL should have waited 45 min as stated in rules, well maybe an hour because of dreamhack, and just give a win to July. That's July and NASL own fault to prolong this. Probably by doing this they showed a respect for a player like White-ra, so I hope White-Ra will apologize for this unfortunate incident and things go well again
i actually like your perspective alot and thats exactly what i want to happen. if it was a random player i wouldent have thought much of it, but whitera is my favorite non korean and july isint even in my top 8 koreans (hes probably top 8 skills but i mean as far as being a fan) but its unbelievable how july was being attacked for what white-ra did.
if white-ra is the player i think he is, hes gonna apologise shortly and then everyone can let it go.
itll still be a shame we wont see the epic matchup, but lets hope for them to get matched up on nasl's lan in a couple months.
As far as I'm concerned, WhiteRa lost after at 45minutes and 1 second after he was scheduled. That July chose to forgo his technical victor for another 3 hours and 15 minutes proves that he is super nice to his opponents, wants to give the fans what they want, and would rather advance in a tournament by playing than through forfeit. Raging at July is frankly ridiculous.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
On April 15 2011 00:53 lazyfeet wrote: How whould you feel if you have to wake up 4 in the morning to play and your opponent didn't show up. The rule of nasl clearly stated that after 45min if one not showing up means forfeit. He then have to wait another 4 hour and nasl make him choose rather or not you reschedule the game. And please don't make excuse for whitera. Sjow leave dreamhack same time as whitera. WhiteRa is the one went to the afterparty. He got 4 hours to find any location with pc and he can play. There is so many Sweden players around I'm sure one of them would help.
Yea, white-ra should've found some pc cafe with sweden language windows and starcraft installed, with unfamiliar keyboard and mouse, and without any rest after hard matches against best players from the world. Then lose 0-2 to July fairly (irony)
Wait, this thread is still going on and there are ppl who dare to blame july out of all ppl? This is getting ridiculous. The dude stays up/wakes up at 4am, waits another 4 hour and he is the bad guy all of the sudden for taking a win? We should not blame anyone before we know 100% what is going on here tbh.
However, i am dissapointed in the NASL for shoving the responsibility to july instead of acting like an organisation and deciding themselves. It's not their fault but as the organisers they should take the responsibility and all the consequences till everything is figured out.
I agree with Assirra on at least one point, this should be a very cut-and-dry case in the rules, and shouldn't be put on the player. Exceptions only make things more difficult if there are repeat situations.
"But you gave White-Ra a 4 hour grace period! Why do I get a forfeit after only one hour?"
On April 15 2011 00:53 lazyfeet wrote: How whould you feel if you have to wake up 4 in the morning to play and your opponent didn't show up. The rule of nasl clearly stated that after 45min if one not showing up means forfeit. He then have to wait another 4 hour and nasl make him choose rather or not you reschedule the game. And please don't make excuse for whitera. Sjow leave dreamhack same time as whitera. WhiteRa is the one went to the afterparty. He got 4 hours to find any location with pc and he can play. There is so many Sweden players around I'm sure one of them would help.
Yea, white-ra should've found some pc cafe with sweden language windows and starcraft installed, with unfamiliar keyboard and mouse, and without any rest after hard matches against best players from the world. Then lose 0-2 to July fairly (irony)
He knew about the match, was in contact with NASL and then ignored further inquiries. There were people at DH that could have assisted him. He either forgot or didn't want to play; either way the whole thing was handled in a reasonable manner.
On April 15 2011 01:12 syllogism wrote: He knew about the match, was in contact with NASL and then ignored further inquiries.
How do you know that? He knew he was late and his phone might have just gone off. Are you sure he got all the messages and *ignored* NASL and July on purpose? That's a bold statement to make.
I don't understand why they wouldn't reschedule right from the beginning? It's NASL's fault if july has to wake up at 4 and wait for hours on end, if they were just assuming that white-ra wouldn't make it to the finals.
On April 15 2011 01:12 syllogism wrote: He knew about the match, was in contact with NASL and then ignored further inquiries.
How do you know that? He knew he was late and his phone might have just gone off. Are you sure he got all the messages and *ignored* NASL and July on purpose? That's a bold statement to make.
Whether he ignored them on purpose or due to other reasons isn't very relevant as he most definitely was in contact with them at some point right before or after the scheduled time and was told he had to play. Even assuming he wasn't ignoring them on purpose, he should have made sure to check his phone whenever he had time.
On April 15 2011 01:12 syllogism wrote: He knew about the match, was in contact with NASL and then ignored further inquiries.
How do you know that? He knew he was late and his phone might have just gone off. Are you sure he got all the messages and *ignored* NASL and July on purpose? That's a bold statement to make.
As you said, he knew he was late -- that's all that matters. The rules are that you if you're 45 minutes late, you forfeit. He knew what time the match was supposed to be, it was his responsibility to make it. Whether he "ignored" NASL's messages or just couldn't get in contact is irrelevant.
On April 15 2011 00:53 lazyfeet wrote: How whould you feel if you have to wake up 4 in the morning to play and your opponent didn't show up. The rule of nasl clearly stated that after 45min if one not showing up means forfeit. He then have to wait another 4 hour and nasl make him choose rather or not you reschedule the game. And please don't make excuse for whitera. Sjow leave dreamhack same time as whitera. WhiteRa is the one went to the afterparty. He got 4 hours to find any location with pc and he can play. There is so many Sweden players around I'm sure one of them would help.
Yea, white-ra should've found some pc cafe with sweden language windows and starcraft installed, with unfamiliar keyboard and mouse, and without any rest after hard matches against best players from the world. Then lose 0-2 to July fairly (irony)
You realize that White-Ra knew the scheduling of both matches before hand right? Its not like NASL told him "hey in 20 minutes your playing july." The conflict was known ahead of time.
Do you also think he didnt bring his own mouse and keyboard to DH? I don't see how anyone could say July was wrong for taking the win. He waited far longer than was necessary for a no show.
On April 15 2011 01:18 dormer wrote: As you said, he knew he was late -- that's all that matters. The rules are that you if you're 45 minutes late, you forfeit. He knew what time the match was supposed to be, it was his responsibility to make it. Whether he "ignored" NASL's messages or just couldn't get in contact is irrelevant.
Given the circumstances I'm ok with July given the free win. However it's totally NASL's fault that they had conflict in schedule with dreamhack. DH is one day major LAN, NASL is 12-weeks long offline league. Obviously they have more flexibility and should have done something about it. Basically NASL told whitera to choose between DH and NASL. So don't blame whitera for choosing DH final, that's an obvious choice. It's just that NASL should never put players in such situation.
On April 15 2011 00:53 lazyfeet wrote: How whould you feel if you have to wake up 4 in the morning to play and your opponent didn't show up. The rule of nasl clearly stated that after 45min if one not showing up means forfeit. He then have to wait another 4 hour and nasl make him choose rather or not you reschedule the game. And please don't make excuse for whitera. Sjow leave dreamhack same time as whitera. WhiteRa is the one went to the afterparty. He got 4 hours to find any location with pc and he can play. There is so many Sweden players around I'm sure one of them would help.
Yea, white-ra should've found some pc cafe with sweden language windows and starcraft installed, with unfamiliar keyboard and mouse, and without any rest after hard matches against best players from the world. Then lose 0-2 to July fairly (irony)
What's so funny about that, people like Sjow, Jinro and MorroW were there. I'm pretty sure they would've been glad to help him find some LAN center or something. And progamers usually have their mouse and keyboard around anyway, what do you think he played with at dreamhack? Shouldn't be that hard to plug them into another PC :|
On April 15 2011 01:18 syllogism wrote: Whether he ignored them on purpose or due to other reasons isn't very relevant as he most definitely was in contact with them at some point right before or after the scheduled time and was told he had to play. Even assuming he wasn't ignoring them on purpose, he should have made sure to check his phone whenever he had time.
He was in contact before the final and before he was late. He was told he had to play and obviously went for DH, who would have chosen differently?
Then NASL failed to contact him and let him know that they are still waiting for him even though they shouldn't have; giving themselves an excuse. It's not that whitera should have contacted them after he thought it's over (right after the finals).
Also how do you check the phone that's gone off? Tell me I'm really curious.
On April 15 2011 00:53 lazyfeet wrote: How whould you feel if you have to wake up 4 in the morning to play and your opponent didn't show up. The rule of nasl clearly stated that after 45min if one not showing up means forfeit. He then have to wait another 4 hour and nasl make him choose rather or not you reschedule the game. And please don't make excuse for whitera. Sjow leave dreamhack same time as whitera. WhiteRa is the one went to the afterparty. He got 4 hours to find any location with pc and he can play. There is so many Sweden players around I'm sure one of them would help.
Yea, white-ra should've found some pc cafe with sweden language windows and starcraft installed, with unfamiliar keyboard and mouse, and without any rest after hard matches against best players from the world. Then lose 0-2 to July fairly (irony)
He knew about the match, was in contact with NASL and then ignored further inquiries. There were people at DH that could have assisted him. He either forgot or didn't want to play; either way the whole thing was handled in a reasonable manner.
i'm not fanboying or anything, and it was probably really white-ra fault for not trying to communicate with NASL, but i'd like to see any human who would calmly go find some ways of communications and play next tournament just after competing in a big tournament against best players in the world, beating everyone and almost winning the whole thing, and in the end left with nothing. Too bad that both NASL and DH could organize their games so players could compete without those stressful situations.
On April 15 2011 01:18 syllogism wrote: Whether he ignored them on purpose or due to other reasons isn't very relevant as he most definitely was in contact with them at some point right before or after the scheduled time and was told he had to play. Even assuming he wasn't ignoring them on purpose, he should have made sure to check his phone whenever he had time.
Also how do you check the phone that's gone off? Tell me I'm really curious.
Sounds like a case of mis-communication at this point. Note the NASL rules state that if you can't play at the schedule time it's forfeit after 45 minutes. White-Ra was therefore probably under the impression that when he chose to play the DH finals he had already auto-forfeited and therefore had no reason to contact NASL admins or to expect a call from them. I'm curious as to whether NASL actually told White-Ra they were extending the wait time for him prior to DH. If they didn't, then it doesn't make much sense to blame White-Ra as he could not expect them to bend the rules at the last minute.
On April 15 2011 01:18 syllogism wrote: Whether he ignored them on purpose or due to other reasons isn't very relevant as he most definitely was in contact with them at some point right before or after the scheduled time and was told he had to play. Even assuming he wasn't ignoring them on purpose, he should have made sure to check his phone whenever he had time.
Also how do you check the phone that's gone off? Tell me I'm really curious.
July didn't have to wait for four hours. White-Ra oubiously wasn't going to show up, which was clear from the beginning. DreamHack is such a major event that NASL should have postponed.
To the ones saying that White-Ra should have played the games in Sweden, I ask you to put yourself in his shoes:
You have just lost a 100 000 SEK (about 15 000 USD) tournament by getting cheesed in the deciding game. Yeah, let's go straight to a LAN center in a foreign country and play more games in a tournament, which you are already late to, and in which you are the underdog again. lol. Furthermore, NASL knew about the clash beforehand.
Seems to me like NASL just should have rescheduled and not have made July wait four hours.
On April 15 2011 01:35 TS-Rupbar wrote: July didn't have to wait for four hours. White-Ra oubiously wasn't going to show up, which was clear from the beginning. DreamHack is such a major event that NASL should have postponed.
To the ones saying that White-Ra should have played the games in Sweden, I ask you to put yourself in his shoes:
You have just lost a 100 000 SEK (about 15 000 USD) tournament by getting cheesed in the deciding game. Yeah, let's go straight to a LAN center in a foreign country and play more games in a tournament, which you are already late to, and in which you are the underdog again. lol. Furthermore, NASL knew about the clash beforehand.
Seems to me like NASL just should have rescheduled and not have made July wait four hours.
I doubt NASL wants to be known as the tournament that postpones their schedule for the sake of other tournaments. It's like people don't remember that these tournaments/leagues are in competition with each other. If NASL bends over for DH, that sets a precedent, which from the players' perspective means NASL will probably bend over for other major tournaments as well, leading to more NASL matches being postponed and the perception that NASL isn't an important league.
The fact is that both of these guys knew the rules of this tournament before it started. By agreeing to take part and possibly win a large amount of money they also have to follow the rules and decisions of those in charge of the NASL. If they do not follow the rules than they will face the consequences, in this case losing 0-2. All outside factors do not matter. If you agree that you will be somewhere at a specific time and outside factors prevent you from being there, you still broke the agreement and are therefore responsible for the consequences regardless of any intent. White-Ra is a grown up. He knows this and no doubt had/has a very good reason for not playing. He obviously knew what he was doing, otherwise we would see complaints from him. No doubt he accepts the terms of his forfeit and will give us great games in the future. As I stated above, it's not like he can't afford to give them a handicap.
On April 15 2011 00:53 lazyfeet wrote: How whould you feel if you have to wake up 4 in the morning to play and your opponent didn't show up. The rule of nasl clearly stated that after 45min if one not showing up means forfeit. He then have to wait another 4 hour and nasl make him choose rather or not you reschedule the game. And please don't make excuse for whitera. Sjow leave dreamhack same time as whitera. WhiteRa is the one went to the afterparty. He got 4 hours to find any location with pc and he can play. There is so many Sweden players around I'm sure one of them would help.
Yea, white-ra should've found some pc cafe with sweden language windows and starcraft installed, with unfamiliar keyboard and mouse, and without any rest after hard matches against best players from the world. Then lose 0-2 to July fairly (irony)
He knew about the match, was in contact with NASL and then ignored further inquiries. There were people at DH that could have assisted him. He either forgot or didn't want to play; either way the whole thing was handled in a reasonable manner.
i'm not fanboying or anything, and it was probably really white-ra fault for not trying to communicate with NASL, but i'd like to see any human who would calmly go find some ways of communications and play next tournament just after competing in a big tournament against best players in the world, beating everyone and almost winning the whole thing, and in the end left with nothing. Too bad that both NASL and DH could organize their games so players could compete without those stressful situations.
...waaait.. lemme get this straight...
You would like to see a human who would calmly go find out if his match in a ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND US DOLLARS TOURNAMENT is on or not?
too bad players couldn't organise themselves to be professional so NASL organisers wouldn't be in those stressful situations.
i hope nasl learns from this and make sure that there wont be any freewins, tournaments like this should not have freewins
@ at the wo for july: to be honest the only thing that matters to me as viewer is that i wont be able to see the best match of the first week, which suxs
On April 15 2011 01:18 syllogism wrote: Whether he ignored them on purpose or due to other reasons isn't very relevant as he most definitely was in contact with them at some point right before or after the scheduled time and was told he had to play. Even assuming he wasn't ignoring them on purpose, he should have made sure to check his phone whenever he had time.
Also how do you check the phone that's gone off? Tell me I'm really curious.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
On April 15 2011 01:35 TS-Rupbar wrote: July didn't have to wait for four hours. White-Ra oubiously wasn't going to show up, which was clear from the beginning. DreamHack is such a major event that NASL should have postponed.
To the ones saying that White-Ra should have played the games in Sweden, I ask you to put yourself in his shoes:
You have just lost a 100 000 SEK (about 15 000 USD) tournament by getting cheesed in the deciding game. Yeah, let's go straight to a LAN center in a foreign country and play more games in a tournament, which you are already late to, and in which you are the underdog again. lol. Furthermore, NASL knew about the clash beforehand.
Seems to me like NASL just should have rescheduled and not have made July wait four hours.
Yeah. At least offer the reschedule after the 45m. No reason for July to wait 4 hours to take the win.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
You are out of your mind. Everyone made a poor decision except the person that didn't showed up without letting it know? Do you know what you are saying?
On April 15 2011 01:18 syllogism wrote: Whether he ignored them on purpose or due to other reasons isn't very relevant as he most definitely was in contact with them at some point right before or after the scheduled time and was told he had to play. Even assuming he wasn't ignoring them on purpose, he should have made sure to check his phone whenever he had time.
Also how do you check the phone that's gone off? Tell me I'm really curious.
You turn it on again, duh.
I think he meant battery dying.
Yes yes, I was joking :|
My bad, the "duh" was quite clear, should have gotten that With everyone blaming everyone and people arguing the strangest things it is sometimes hard to see the humor
Now you guys see why they wanted to keep it restricted to just having teams, because there are team managers and the like to organize and keep all this straight. White-Ra was let in as a 1 man team, and what happens? He can't keep his scheduling straight.
As much as I respect White-Ra's play and his demeanor, this is a good example of why having organized teams with accountability in them should have been held more firmly
On April 15 2011 01:35 TS-Rupbar wrote: July didn't have to wait for four hours. White-Ra oubiously wasn't going to show up, which was clear from the beginning. DreamHack is such a major event that NASL should have postponed.
To the ones saying that White-Ra should have played the games in Sweden, I ask you to put yourself in his shoes:
You have just lost a 100 000 SEK (about 15 000 USD) tournament by getting cheesed in the deciding game. Yeah, let's go straight to a LAN center in a foreign country and play more games in a tournament, which you are already late to, and in which you are the underdog again. lol. Furthermore, NASL knew about the clash beforehand.
Seems to me like NASL just should have rescheduled and not have made July wait four hours.
That is called professionalism. "I'm tired and depressed" is not a legitimate reason to skip a match without contacting the tournament organizers who have been working hard to create their schedule for a 50-person 5 days/wk league with the biggest prize money pool outside of Korea. Also, it's not like White-Ra was stranded in a middle of nowhere where nobody can communicate with him and nobody knows anything about NASL.
NASL in fact gave him 4 hours instead of the regular 45 minutes because of him being at Dreamhack. NASL should actually have announced W/O without even having to ask July.
you guys realize we're mostly all arguing with 1 idiot right?
WR should have found one fellow progamer or computer to e-mail and say to not wait for him once he decided for whatever reason he didn't want to play. NASL should've followed their rules, which is what WR may have been assuming. neither of them are assholes for his; just mistakes
On April 15 2011 00:53 lazyfeet wrote: How whould you feel if you have to wake up 4 in the morning to play and your opponent didn't show up. The rule of nasl clearly stated that after 45min if one not showing up means forfeit. He then have to wait another 4 hour and nasl make him choose rather or not you reschedule the game. And please don't make excuse for whitera. Sjow leave dreamhack same time as whitera. WhiteRa is the one went to the afterparty. He got 4 hours to find any location with pc and he can play. There is so many Sweden players around I'm sure one of them would help.
Yea, white-ra should've found some pc cafe with sweden language windows and starcraft installed, with unfamiliar keyboard and mouse, and without any rest after hard matches against best players from the world. Then lose 0-2 to July fairly (irony)
He knew about the match, was in contact with NASL and then ignored further inquiries. There were people at DH that could have assisted him. He either forgot or didn't want to play; either way the whole thing was handled in a reasonable manner.
i'm not fanboying or anything, and it was probably really white-ra fault for not trying to communicate with NASL, but i'd like to see any human who would calmly go find some ways of communications and play next tournament just after competing in a big tournament against best players in the world, beating everyone and almost winning the whole thing, and in the end left with nothing. Too bad that both NASL and DH could organize their games so players could compete without those stressful situations.
...waaait.. lemme get this straight...
You would like to see a human who would calmly go find out if his match in a ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND US DOLLARS TOURNAMENT is on or not?
too bad players couldn't organise themselves to be professional so NASL organisers wouldn't be in those stressful situations.
(see wut i did der?)
lol, yea, tell maraphon runner who just crossed finish line that he should run another maraphon, and if he win he will get million dollarz! ^^
As someone here said - they dont schedule Olympics when there is Athletics World Championships for a reason.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
You are out of your mind. Everyone made a poor decision except the person that didn't showed up without letting it know? Do you know what you are saying?
I mean. Did he not say if he was at dreamhack he probably wouldn't make it. Nobody knows if he bm or not
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
So, White-Ra is the only good guy here for not showing up and because nobody really heard from him since then, he's innocent. He's a poor victim of the incompetent NASL and cowardly July who cheated White-Ra by showing up on time and waiting according to NASL's wishes...
This is really unfortunate, would have loved to see them battle it out. What I dont understand though, why did NASL change its mind about rescheduling after whitera didnt show up? They say the schedule is too tight to postpone anything, but then they give July the choice after he waited for 4 hours. If something like this happens again there should be strict rules. Either the players might reschedule (one or two games a season) or they forfeit the game strictly after 45 minutes. From a spectators point of view the first is of course preferable.
On April 15 2011 02:44 sleigh bells wrote: ok so it's just bigjoe that an idiot/troll
faith in humanity slightly restored
you guys realize we're mostly all arguing with 1 idiot right?
WR should have found one fellow progamer or computer to e-mail and say to not wait for him once he decided for whatever reason he didn't want to play. NASL should've followed their rules, which is what WR may have been assuming. neither of them are assholes for his; just mistakes
Wait... so we know for sure now WR didnt want to play?
On April 15 2011 03:22 chestnutman wrote: This is really unfortunate, would have loved to see them battle it out. What I dont understand though, why did NASL change its mind about rescheduling after whitera didnt show up? They say the schedule is too tight to postpone anything, but then they give July the choice after he waited for 4 hours. If something like this happens again there should be strict rules. Either the players might reschedule (one or two games a season) or they forfeit the game strictly after 45 minutes. From a spectators point of view the first is of course preferable.
White-Ra vs July was the first match scheduled for the day, so I guess still had the option to delay the match until the last match scheduled this day had been played... Looking at the pregame show they didn't mention anything about White-Ra not having showed up at that point, so they probably still kept it as an possibility.
Just guessing here, but that makes sense at least to me
I feel awfully sorry for White-Ra after the DH finals; it's extremely sad to have him get that loss without even having been given a chance to stand against July. It would've been quite a game.
wow yall waited 4 hours. maybe a policy should be adapted to suit such situations. ie. after one hour the player has forfeited their right to compete unless arrangements or notification has been otherwise given.. July does need his sleep after all ;\
On April 15 2011 02:44 sleigh bells wrote: ok so it's just bigjoe that an idiot/troll
faith in humanity slightly restored
you guys realize we're mostly all arguing with 1 idiot right?
WR should have found one fellow progamer or computer to e-mail and say to not wait for him once he decided for whatever reason he didn't want to play. NASL should've followed their rules, which is what WR may have been assuming. neither of them are assholes for his; just mistakes
Wait... so we know for sure now WR didnt want to play?
I'm not even going to say anything witty here. I am lost for words.
This is... Unfortunate, but understandable. The NASL has such a tight schedule that something like this had to happen at some point. It's a shame that White-Ra couldn't play, but, meh, shit happens.
Unfortunate but I guess it makes sense to give July the win since he waited.
I just don't understand why it's a problem to reschedule, if their might be a scheduling issue...just play the game any other night during the year? That should be standard procedure no?
On April 15 2011 01:17 hifriend wrote: I don't understand why they wouldn't reschedule right from the beginning? It's NASL's fault if july has to wake up at 4 and wait for hours on end, if they were just assuming that white-ra wouldn't make it to the finals.
I agree. I mean, I understand that NASL doesn't want to become "the league that bends their schedule for other leagues" but being an offline tournament IMO it falls in their court to adjust their schedule in advance. As far as I can tell from their summary, the most they attempted to compromise was asking Dreamhack to arrange for a PC that White-Ra could've played on there.
Between scheduling July to play at 4am his time and White-Ra on the same day as a Dreamhack, it clearly wasn't an ideal time for either of them. Is the production staff's time so deadlocked that they couldn't have played and casted the game a couple days early and saved it for later?
That said, I have lots of respect for July for waiting 4 hours to play and think he deserved the awarded victory. Meanwhile, it sucks for White-Ra that the events fell into place like this... I'm still a fan of his play and hope for the best for Duckload. Maybe in the future, he can get a manager that will be able to negotiate these sorts of things better.
Would it really have been that big of a disaster to have 6 games in 1 day, and 4 games in another day? He can't play that day? Oh well, make things a little longer another day. Add a break or something to make it easier to manage. Its like NASL doesn't realize they are the ones making the rules. It obviously made sense to postpone.
On April 15 2011 05:10 Mohdoo wrote: Would it really have been that big of a disaster to have 6 games in 1 day, and 4 games in another day? He can't play that day? Oh well, make things a little longer another day. Add a break or something to make it easier to manage. Its like NASL doesn't realize they are the ones making the rules. It obviously made sense to postpone.
Not really fair to July for waking up at 4am to wait for the tourny. Yes, you can shuffle things around, but at the end of the day, it's a tournament and has a set schedule. As much as I want to see July Vs White-Ra and I'd be routing for White-Ra, it doesn't change the fact that July deserves the by on this one.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
So, White-Ra is the only good guy here for not showing up and because nobody really heard from him since then, he's innocent. He's a poor victim of the incompetent NASL and cowardly July who cheated White-Ra by showing up on time and waiting according to NASL's wishes...
Dude you got it exactly...
How can anybody come to that conclusion? I have been saying this entire time that NASL changed their rules to give the win to July after 45m by waiting 4 hours instead. July should not have had to wait and its really sad that he did because he shouldn't have had to. Knowing in advance there would have been a conflict with White-Ra being in dreamhack should have triggered some kind of preparation but what resulted was a giant waste of time. If NASL is already bending the rules by giving the choice to July, then they should also be able to bend the rules for White-Ra to reschedule. They never heard from him and cant confirm if there was some kind of emergency or if White-Ra accepts the forfeit. White-Ra is not innocent but that doesnt mean I would call him guilty. All I wanted to say is that July took an easy win and didnt deserve it.
On April 15 2011 05:10 Mohdoo wrote: Would it really have been that big of a disaster to have 6 games in 1 day, and 4 games in another day? He can't play that day? Oh well, make things a little longer another day. Add a break or something to make it easier to manage. Its like NASL doesn't realize they are the ones making the rules. It obviously made sense to postpone.
Not really fair to July for waking up at 4am to wait for the tourny. Yes, you can shuffle things around, but at the end of the day, it's a tournament and has a set schedule. As much as I want to see July Vs White-Ra and I'd be routing for White-Ra, it doesn't change the fact that July deserves the by on this one.
Also it sets a bad precedent. Sure the NASL should do what they can to work around other tournaments but you can't have a situation when players feel like they can just reschedule their games if something else comes up. It won't work in the long run.
Not really fair to July for waking up at 4am to wait for the tourny. Yes, you can shuffle things around, but at the end of the day, it's a tournament and has a set schedule. As much as I want to see July Vs White-Ra and I'd be routing for White-Ra, it doesn't change the fact that July deserves the by on this one.
Actually, it's not a tournament (tournaments don't last for over 3 months). Dreamhack is a tournament, though. And aside from Huk & Jinro, everyone at Dreamhack could have found themselves in the same position that Sjow and WhiteRa were in if NASL had foolishly scheduled a league game simultaneously with Dreamhack.
It's not like Dreamhack was a long tournament at all, so it would have been easy to schedule around well in advance in order to prevent any of the 6 NASL participants from being put in a position to go find a random place to play in order to avoid a forfeit.
I also can't believe people are suggesting that a pro player should have to choose between Dreamhack & NASL -- frankly, if NASL wants people to choose, pros are going to choose tournaments with relatively high prize pools per time invested and NASL will lose out every time!
The actual schedule for NASL dating all the way into June is currently posted. That seems like a major mistake to me, as it's going to ensure that there will be future conflicts with live tournaments. It would make more sense if NASL would choose the matchups to be played each week in advance, and then schedule the days and times based on player availability 2 weeks in advance or so. Real sports leagues set dates well in advance because they're played & broadcasted live in front of an audience. NASL doesn't and thus has the ability to more flexibly schedule.
Pros aren't going to turn down live tournaments with decent prize pools in the future to accommodate a 3 month long league with an uncertain future. Additionally, some of the best players in the world chose not to join NASL in its initial season (HuK, Jinro, NesTea, & Mvp just to name a few). The league is only going to get the best players by making participation as pain-free as possible.
Also, for a much easier suggestion to implement: NASL should take a cue from the UFC and make the most anticipated match of each night the final one that's broadcasted. On some nights (like tonight) that might be difficult to determine (I'd say probably DDE-Nada), but it will get easier as the weeks go on and you have clear division leaders in the standings.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
So, White-Ra is the only good guy here for not showing up and because nobody really heard from him since then, he's innocent. He's a poor victim of the incompetent NASL and cowardly July who cheated White-Ra by showing up on time and waiting according to NASL's wishes...
Dude you got it exactly...
How can anybody come to that conclusion? I have been saying this entire time that NASL changed their rules to give the win to July after 45m by waiting 4 hours instead. July should not have had to wait and its really sad that he did because he shouldn't have had to. Knowing in advance there would have been a conflict with White-Ra being in dreamhack should have triggered some kind of preparation but what resulted was a giant waste of time. If NASL is already bending the rules by giving the choice to July, then they should also be able to bend the rules for White-Ra to reschedule. They never heard from him and cant confirm if there was some kind of emergency or if White-Ra accepts the forfeit. White-Ra is not innocent but that doesnt mean I would call him guilty. All I wanted to say is that July took an easy win and didnt deserve it.
Ok, if July doesn't deserve to win, then tell me why Whitera deserves a reschedule. After all, he went partying while NASL and July were sitting there clueless wondering where the fuck he was the entire night.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
So, White-Ra is the only good guy here for not showing up and because nobody really heard from him since then, he's innocent. He's a poor victim of the incompetent NASL and cowardly July who cheated White-Ra by showing up on time and waiting according to NASL's wishes...
Dude you got it exactly...
How can anybody come to that conclusion? I have been saying this entire time that NASL changed their rules to give the win to July after 45m by waiting 4 hours instead. July should not have had to wait and its really sad that he did because he shouldn't have had to. Knowing in advance there would have been a conflict with White-Ra being in dreamhack should have triggered some kind of preparation but what resulted was a giant waste of time. If NASL is already bending the rules by giving the choice to July, then they should also be able to bend the rules for White-Ra to reschedule. They never heard from him and cant confirm if there was some kind of emergency or if White-Ra accepts the forfeit. White-Ra is not innocent but that doesnt mean I would call him guilty. All I wanted to say is that July took an easy win and didnt deserve it.
Ok, if July doesn't deserve to win, then tell me why Whitera deserves a reschedule. After all, he went partying while NASL and July were sitting there clueless wondering where the fuck he was the entire night.
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
So, White-Ra is the only good guy here for not showing up and because nobody really heard from him since then, he's innocent. He's a poor victim of the incompetent NASL and cowardly July who cheated White-Ra by showing up on time and waiting according to NASL's wishes...
Dude you got it exactly...
How can anybody come to that conclusion? I have been saying this entire time that NASL changed their rules to give the win to July after 45m by waiting 4 hours instead. July should not have had to wait and its really sad that he did because he shouldn't have had to. Knowing in advance there would have been a conflict with White-Ra being in dreamhack should have triggered some kind of preparation but what resulted was a giant waste of time. If NASL is already bending the rules by giving the choice to July, then they should also be able to bend the rules for White-Ra to reschedule. They never heard from him and cant confirm if there was some kind of emergency or if White-Ra accepts the forfeit. White-Ra is not innocent but that doesnt mean I would call him guilty. All I wanted to say is that July took an easy win and didnt deserve it.
Ok, if July doesn't deserve to win, then tell me why Whitera deserves a reschedule. After all, he went partying while NASL and July were sitting there clueless wondering where the fuck he was the entire night.
100% nasl's fault. You're a company providing a service to users, that service being amazing sc2 matches that people want to watch. And you just drop the best game of the series?
Think ahead and reschedule. This reeks of laziness and incompetence. Everyone in here is pissed.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
So, White-Ra is the only good guy here for not showing up and because nobody really heard from him since then, he's innocent. He's a poor victim of the incompetent NASL and cowardly July who cheated White-Ra by showing up on time and waiting according to NASL's wishes...
Dude you got it exactly...
How can anybody come to that conclusion? I have been saying this entire time that NASL changed their rules to give the win to July after 45m by waiting 4 hours instead. July should not have had to wait and its really sad that he did because he shouldn't have had to. Knowing in advance there would have been a conflict with White-Ra being in dreamhack should have triggered some kind of preparation but what resulted was a giant waste of time. If NASL is already bending the rules by giving the choice to July, then they should also be able to bend the rules for White-Ra to reschedule. They never heard from him and cant confirm if there was some kind of emergency or if White-Ra accepts the forfeit. White-Ra is not innocent but that doesnt mean I would call him guilty. All I wanted to say is that July took an easy win and didnt deserve it.
Ok, if July doesn't deserve to win, then tell me why Whitera deserves a reschedule. After all, he went partying while NASL and July were sitting there clueless wondering where the fuck he was the entire night.
Source please?
Point taken then. Where is the full article with this picture so I can read more about it though? Was there an interview with why he decided to do this?
On April 15 2011 07:15 naslsFault wrote: 100% nasl's fault. You're a company providing a service to users, that service being amazing sc2 matches that people want to watch. And you just drop the best game of the series?
Think ahead and reschedule. This reeks of laziness and incompetence. Everyone in here is pissed.
Don't speak for me then, I'm not pissed. But well, I guess we can just go and tell our favorite TV show producers to reschedule a show just because we won't be able to watch, I'm sure they'll understand... God the people that have no idea how a show is made really think it is as easy as "rescheduling for the sake of rescheduling".
LOL at how people are trying to blow this thing out of proportion. White-ra missed the game and forfeited the match big whoop!! Hes a professional and all pro players these days make choices understanding that if they join up with a gaming tournament or league that they show up on time to each match. NASL acted profesionally 100% by even trying to comprimise between July and White-ra by giving July a choice after he patiently waited for 4 hrs, when White ra should have auto forfeited anyway. Its like Bo Jackson or Dion Sanders for crying out loud. They cant make both games so they forfeit one of them and its too bad maybe they should just focus on one of the leagues instead. It would have been the same argument if it was another player
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
So, White-Ra is the only good guy here for not showing up and because nobody really heard from him since then, he's innocent. He's a poor victim of the incompetent NASL and cowardly July who cheated White-Ra by showing up on time and waiting according to NASL's wishes...
Dude you got it exactly...
How can anybody come to that conclusion? I have been saying this entire time that NASL changed their rules to give the win to July after 45m by waiting 4 hours instead. July should not have had to wait and its really sad that he did because he shouldn't have had to. Knowing in advance there would have been a conflict with White-Ra being in dreamhack should have triggered some kind of preparation but what resulted was a giant waste of time. If NASL is already bending the rules by giving the choice to July, then they should also be able to bend the rules for White-Ra to reschedule. They never heard from him and cant confirm if there was some kind of emergency or if White-Ra accepts the forfeit. White-Ra is not innocent but that doesnt mean I would call him guilty. All I wanted to say is that July took an easy win and didnt deserve it.
Ok, if July doesn't deserve to win, then tell me why Whitera deserves a reschedule. After all, he went partying while NASL and July were sitting there clueless wondering where the fuck he was the entire night.
Source please?
Point taken then. Where is the full article with this picture so I can read more about it though? Was there an interview with why he decided to do this?
On April 14 2011 23:56 Hellspawnl wrote: I can just give my insight. White-Ra have mailed NASL several times and I think myself I sent in total four mails to explain the situation. I think it's a strange move from NASL to lock people to play a certain weekday for 9 weeks without wildcards. I can just say that White-Ra and I did everything to try to solve this but it seems it was impossible.
Quoted for being the only post in the past 10 pages with any relevance.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
So, White-Ra is the only good guy here for not showing up and because nobody really heard from him since then, he's innocent. He's a poor victim of the incompetent NASL and cowardly July who cheated White-Ra by showing up on time and waiting according to NASL's wishes...
Dude you got it exactly...
How can anybody come to that conclusion? I have been saying this entire time that NASL changed their rules to give the win to July after 45m by waiting 4 hours instead. July should not have had to wait and its really sad that he did because he shouldn't have had to. Knowing in advance there would have been a conflict with White-Ra being in dreamhack should have triggered some kind of preparation but what resulted was a giant waste of time. If NASL is already bending the rules by giving the choice to July, then they should also be able to bend the rules for White-Ra to reschedule. They never heard from him and cant confirm if there was some kind of emergency or if White-Ra accepts the forfeit. White-Ra is not innocent but that doesnt mean I would call him guilty. All I wanted to say is that July took an easy win and didnt deserve it.
Ok, if July doesn't deserve to win, then tell me why Whitera deserves a reschedule. After all, he went partying while NASL and July were sitting there clueless wondering where the fuck he was the entire night.
Source please?
Point taken then. Where is the full article with this picture so I can read more about it though? Was there an interview with why he decided to do this?
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
So, White-Ra is the only good guy here for not showing up and because nobody really heard from him since then, he's innocent. He's a poor victim of the incompetent NASL and cowardly July who cheated White-Ra by showing up on time and waiting according to NASL's wishes...
Dude you got it exactly...
How can anybody come to that conclusion? I have been saying this entire time that NASL changed their rules to give the win to July after 45m by waiting 4 hours instead. July should not have had to wait and its really sad that he did because he shouldn't have had to. Knowing in advance there would have been a conflict with White-Ra being in dreamhack should have triggered some kind of preparation but what resulted was a giant waste of time. If NASL is already bending the rules by giving the choice to July, then they should also be able to bend the rules for White-Ra to reschedule. They never heard from him and cant confirm if there was some kind of emergency or if White-Ra accepts the forfeit. White-Ra is not innocent but that doesnt mean I would call him guilty. All I wanted to say is that July took an easy win and didnt deserve it.
Ok, if July doesn't deserve to win, then tell me why Whitera deserves a reschedule. After all, he went partying while NASL and July were sitting there clueless wondering where the fuck he was the entire night.
Source please?
Point taken then. Where is the full article with this picture so I can read more about it though? Was there an interview with why he decided to do this?
Without a time-line, those photos are useless for this discussion.
Take a moment and notice how pictures of Jinro arriving at the airport come first, gamers chilling at inferno online come after, followed by pictures of the dreamhack event and then there are the pictures of the afterparty.
Chronological!
But we probably need the International Court of Justice in Den Haag to settle this case.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
So, White-Ra is the only good guy here for not showing up and because nobody really heard from him since then, he's innocent. He's a poor victim of the incompetent NASL and cowardly July who cheated White-Ra by showing up on time and waiting according to NASL's wishes...
Dude you got it exactly...
How can anybody come to that conclusion? I have been saying this entire time that NASL changed their rules to give the win to July after 45m by waiting 4 hours instead. July should not have had to wait and its really sad that he did because he shouldn't have had to. Knowing in advance there would have been a conflict with White-Ra being in dreamhack should have triggered some kind of preparation but what resulted was a giant waste of time. If NASL is already bending the rules by giving the choice to July, then they should also be able to bend the rules for White-Ra to reschedule. They never heard from him and cant confirm if there was some kind of emergency or if White-Ra accepts the forfeit. White-Ra is not innocent but that doesnt mean I would call him guilty. All I wanted to say is that July took an easy win and didnt deserve it.
Ok, if July doesn't deserve to win, then tell me why Whitera deserves a reschedule. After all, he went partying while NASL and July were sitting there clueless wondering where the fuck he was the entire night.
Source please?
Point taken then. Where is the full article with this picture so I can read more about it though? Was there an interview with why he decided to do this?
Not really fair to July for waking up at 4am to wait for the tourny. Yes, you can shuffle things around, but at the end of the day, it's a tournament and has a set schedule. As much as I want to see July Vs White-Ra and I'd be routing for White-Ra, it doesn't change the fact that July deserves the by on this one.
Actually, it's not a tournament (tournaments don't last for over 3 months). Dreamhack is a tournament, though. And aside from Huk & Jinro, everyone at Dreamhack could have found themselves in the same position that Sjow and WhiteRa were in if NASL had foolishly scheduled a league game simultaneously with Dreamhack.
It's not like Dreamhack was a long tournament at all, so it would have been easy to schedule around well in advance in order to prevent any of the 6 NASL participants from being put in a position to go find a random place to play in order to avoid a forfeit.
I also can't believe people are suggesting that a pro player should have to choose between Dreamhack & NASL -- frankly, if NASL wants people to choose, pros are going to choose tournaments with relatively high prize pools per time invested and NASL will lose out every time!
The actual schedule for NASL dating all the way into June is currently posted. That seems like a major mistake to me, as it's going to ensure that there will be future conflicts with live tournaments. It would make more sense if NASL would choose the matchups to be played each week in advance, and then schedule the days and times based on player availability 2 weeks in advance or so. Real sports leagues set dates well in advance because they're played & broadcasted live in front of an audience. NASL doesn't and thus has the ability to more flexibly schedule.
Pros aren't going to turn down live tournaments with decent prize pools in the future to accommodate a 3 month long league with an uncertain future. Additionally, some of the best players in the world chose not to join NASL in its initial season (HuK, Jinro, NesTea, & Mvp just to name a few). The league is only going to get the best players by making participation as pain-free as possible.
Also, for a much easier suggestion to implement: NASL should take a cue from the UFC and make the most anticipated match of each night the final one that's broadcasted. On some nights (like tonight) that might be difficult to determine (I'd say probably DDE-Nada), but it will get easier as the weeks go on and you have clear division leaders in the standings.
They DID schedule around Dreamhack. There WAS time and means for WhiteRA to play, as evidenced by SjoW being able to play despite attending the event. They waited four hours. He just didn't respond to them! Just saying he didn't have to choose between the two at all.
In real sports (oh hell yes i am going there!) if a team or individual does not show up, their opponnent is awarded the win.
There is not much else to discuss here, i wanted to see this match badly but it did not happen.
I know NASL has made some..questionable decisions (who hasent?) but i think people are trying a bit too hard to make everything they do "bad". Basically nothing they have done is okay, everything is under a microscope and i am getting this vibe that people want NASL to fail, not because they dont support esports or SC2, but because they might want Geoff Robinson personally to fail.
No i am not trying to derail the thread, NASL made the right decision, not much else to add.
Wow, this thread needs to be locked asap. The constant trolling of either "NASL's fault" or "WhiteRA's fault, he was partying!!!@#!@" is stupid, contrived and meaningless. NASL went out of their way to extend the time and after that extension the match was called. This is due process and it is what needs to happen in the event of a conflict. I love WhiteRA, I love the NASL, the communication didn't happen so it was called, end of story.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
wow.. I guess people like you are the reason there's a 33 page long about this... lol.. it was single unfortunate incident and the way it was handled was totally reasonable. Shit happens, it's unfortunate, end of story. White_Ra I'm sure is perfectly fine with the decision... to actually "rage" at July as if he did something wrong is completely ridiculous.. I mean I can't even wrap my head around how someone would actually be pissed at July for this... makes no logical sense whatsoever..
poor decision making by everyone? WTF are you talking about? so what exactly would you have done in their place? please enlighten us as to what the proper course of action would have been since your such a genius...
First of all I never thought of myself as a genius, but thanks I guess I kinda am? Please read previous posts before trolling. Poor Decision from NASL for not following their rules they initially set in placed, giving July the choice after 4 hours and for not figuring out what to do ahead of time in case this sort of thing happened. Poor decision by July because he didnt take the win after 45 minutes, so he has no reason to complain about staying up till 8am. Poor decision making by White-Ra? Maybe not so much since nobody really heard from him. Nobody knows if he didnt get his messages or just got caught up in his tournament. If I was in July's place I would have played one way or the other, that's just me. I'm sorry if I like to deserve wins.
So, White-Ra is the only good guy here for not showing up and because nobody really heard from him since then, he's innocent. He's a poor victim of the incompetent NASL and cowardly July who cheated White-Ra by showing up on time and waiting according to NASL's wishes...
Dude you got it exactly...
How can anybody come to that conclusion? I have been saying this entire time that NASL changed their rules to give the win to July after 45m by waiting 4 hours instead. July should not have had to wait and its really sad that he did because he shouldn't have had to. Knowing in advance there would have been a conflict with White-Ra being in dreamhack should have triggered some kind of preparation but what resulted was a giant waste of time. If NASL is already bending the rules by giving the choice to July, then they should also be able to bend the rules for White-Ra to reschedule. They never heard from him and cant confirm if there was some kind of emergency or if White-Ra accepts the forfeit. White-Ra is not innocent but that doesnt mean I would call him guilty. All I wanted to say is that July took an easy win and didnt deserve it.
Ok, if July doesn't deserve to win, then tell me why Whitera deserves a reschedule. After all, he went partying while NASL and July were sitting there clueless wondering where the fuck he was the entire night.
On April 15 2011 09:02 Tyree wrote: In real sports (oh hell yes i am going there!) if a team or individual does not show up, their opponnent is awarded the win.
There is not much else to discuss here, i wanted to see this match badly but it did not happen.
I know NASL has made some..questionable decisions (who hasent?) but i think people are trying a bit too hard to make everything they do "bad". Basically nothing they have done is okay, everything is under a microscope and i am getting this vibe that people want NASL to fail, not because they dont support esports or SC2, but because they might want Geoff Robinson personally to fail.
No i am not trying to derail the thread, NASL made the right decision, not much else to add.
They've done everything wrong except having Diggity, apparently.
I think it's amazing that things got handled as smoothly as they did given how new an organization the NASL is. The kind of process maturity it takes to handle these situations well usually takes years of work and refinement.
To that end, I wanted to ask a question and checked the thread to see if it had already been posed. IWhilst people have brought up the valid point that they really shouldn't have put the decision to July to either take the win or reschedule, I have a specific point to raise regarding that situation:
Taken from the NASL statement, my emphasis added:
...We discussed postponing it, but that is something we really can’t do with such an aggressive broadcast schedule...
...After two emails and a phone call to White-Ra, I heard no response. After four hours of waiting, we gave July the choice to take a free win or reschedule...
Given that postponing/rescheduling was something that really couldn't be done, why did NASL give the option of a reschedule to July? I'm not asking from the perspective that it puts pressure on July as a player; that has been discussed and I think it's generally accepted that the league should take responsibility for such decisions. But if a reschedule was never an option, why was it presented to July as one? What happens if July had have said "Yes, I'd like to reschedule the game"?
Ultimately, this is something NASL will need to figure out on their own. They have their rules regarding no-shows, and it was dangerous to abandon those rules because those rules should have been planned out to provide reasonable and fair opportunities to the players. If someone made the call to give July the option of a reschedule when it would destabilize the season schedule, that's a really huge blunder and they should be thanking their lucky stars July took the win.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
You can rage about anything you want. Doesn't make you right in the slightest.
Also, White Ra is an adult. He doesn't need Internet white knights like you trying to make up excuses for everything he does. If anything, you're actually embarrassing him and I'm almost certain White Ra would prefer if people like you didn't call yourselves 'White Ra Fans.'
Not really fair to July for waking up at 4am to wait for the tourny. Yes, you can shuffle things around, but at the end of the day, it's a tournament and has a set schedule. As much as I want to see July Vs White-Ra and I'd be routing for White-Ra, it doesn't change the fact that July deserves the by on this one.
Actually, it's not a tournament (tournaments don't last for over 3 months).
I don't think you know what "tournament" means. How long it takes is not part of the definition.
Seems like at least they realized what went wrong and will do better in the future. So this incident was not in vain. Sucks for WhiteRa though that he gets a different ruling than Naniwa.
On April 15 2011 20:22 samaNo4 wrote: They don't have to put effort to find him, he has to put effort to be in time.
Fixed schedule, minimum 2 weeks in advance for any need of reschedule. Match time, doesn't show -> wait X stipulated time, doesn't show yet? Free win.
It's not that difficult, really.
They could have easily rescheduled the game in advance when White Ra notified them about the possible overlap if he reaches the finals. NASL left it up to chance.
On April 15 2011 20:11 Jate wrote: "After two emails and a phone call to White-Ra, I heard no response."
Wow that's a lot of effort looking for someone important(sarcastic of cause : P )
sorry, i just read the topic and reply, havent read the whole threat yet.
Has Whitera said anything respond to this, i am pretty sure there must be some misunderstanding.
Why would not he play ? no reason not playing imo.
Also he's there, just check his flight, check the airport, call other player "have you seen white ra"
Rule is Rule, i do not go against it, white ra did not show up, forfeit.
But did you really put that much effort finding him ?
2 mails 1 call and just chill, waiting for something to happen.
nah next time, just put more effort.
That's way more effort than a player deserves as he is perfectly aware when the match is supposed to be played. And Whitera did reply to their earlier emails.
On April 14 2011 21:07 BigJoe wrote: rofl July scared to play White-Ra
Yeah that's why July waited 4 hours even though he could've taken the win at 45 minutes. Scared silly.
Why is everyone ostracizing someone for the sake of it? Here's a breakdown:
July: He was ready for his match, waited for 4 hours when he technically only had to wait 45 minutes. It was a poor choice to give the decision to July, because it makes him look like the bad guy when he is probably the least responsible party here.
NASL: They tried to contact White Ra and couldn't. For those saying they should've rescheduled, shut the fuck up. This is a league on a tight schedule with many participants. It's not their job to schedule around 50 people. It is not their fault their participants sign up for conflicting or narrowly conflicting tournaments. The only thing NASL did wrong was putting the burden of choice on JulyZerg instead of just putting their foot down and giving White Ra and automatic forfeit. That was a cop out, but otherwise they did nothing wrong.
White Ra: People are judging White Ra way too harshly. Hypothetical worst case scenario: He knew about his match, had ample opportunity to play it, and just blew it off to party. So what? He just got out of a harrowing series with MC. He wants to relax and enjoy his time in Sweden. The only semi dick move is not responding to Xeris' communications, as it left everyone in the dark and made July had to wait. But it's certainly not worth making a huge deal over.
It's like you people just want to create mountains out of anthills and make drama out of nowhere. Shit happens, get over it.
I agree it was a pretty poor choice of NASL to give the choice to July, but if he was really willing to wait that long why not just reschedule? The matches are not even aired live, they are rebroadcast... so it would be easy to play the match and then air it on a different date. White-Ra should have been more responsible and prepared for this but sometimes people find themselves in a situation where it is not possible to reply. July got an easy win from a hard opponent, guess he doesnt care to win a tournament and not earn it.
He did earn it by showing up. The fact that you are blaming the player who showed up is rather ludicrous.
Yeah let me play a 1v4 against MC, MKP, MVP, and JULY then them not show up. automatic win. i should then get sponsored and have my own progaming team because im so gosu. You dont earn wins just by showing up... I didnt blame anybody, it was poor decision making by everyone and July took an easy out. I can rage about it.
You can rage about anything you want. Doesn't make you right in the slightest.
Also, White Ra is an adult. He doesn't need Internet white knights like you trying to make up excuses for everything he does. If anything, you're actually embarrassing him and I'm almost certain White Ra would prefer if people like you didn't call yourselves 'White Ra Fans.'
On April 15 2011 20:11 Jate wrote: "After two emails and a phone call to White-Ra, I heard no response."
Wow that's a lot of effort looking for someone important(sarcastic of cause : P )
sorry, i just read the topic and reply, havent read the whole threat yet.
Has Whitera said anything respond to this, i am pretty sure there must be some misunderstanding.
Why would not he play ? no reason not playing imo.
Also he's there, just check his flight, check the airport, call other player "have you seen white ra"
Rule is Rule, i do not go against it, white ra did not show up, forfeit.
But did you really put that much effort finding him ?
2 mails 1 call and just chill, waiting for something to happen.
nah next time, just put more effort.
White-Ra went out partying instead, check a few posts back for photos. I not on either players side but I still disagree with July's decision to take an easy win. I can understand though why everyone feel he deserves it, but NASL should have not made him wait that long.
On April 15 2011 20:22 samaNo4 wrote: They don't have to put effort to find him, he has to put effort to be in time.
Fixed schedule, minimum 2 weeks in advance for any need of reschedule. Match time, doesn't show -> wait X stipulated time, doesn't show yet? Free win.
It's not that difficult, really.
They could have easily rescheduled the game in advance when White Ra notified them about the possible overlap if he reaches the finals. NASL left it up to chance.
I was replying the guy who said, go to look for him at the airport, at the bars...yeah sure call the FBI.
Yes, they failed there, and the fail was not to have clear rules, that's where the second part of my point aims at.
Make some rules, show them to the players, set a day when the rules will begin to be applied and that's it.
Exemple, as before:
In case you have a major problem that doesn't let you play, being it one of these stipulated: Major Tourney, Illness, Family affairs, etc. These issues have to be notified at least X weeks in case of tournamnet, 1 week before in case of familiar issue, as soon as possible for illness (if possible). Other issues not written in the rules will be studied by the organizers and given a decision about the possibility of rescheduling the match.
Breaking these rules will be penalized with the loss of the game by 2-0 plus another free loss giving a total of -3.
The rules will start to be applied on 30th of april 2011.
As an example, clear but at the same time not hard rules, easy to follow but hard on their penalties to be able to have a smooth league.
I understand the reason for awarding it to July, although it would have been nice to see them both compete against eachother. It would be nice to see them compete.
On April 15 2011 20:11 Jate wrote: "After two emails and a phone call to White-Ra, I heard no response."
Wow that's a lot of effort looking for someone important(sarcastic of cause : P )
sorry, i just read the topic and reply, havent read the whole threat yet.
Has Whitera said anything respond to this, i am pretty sure there must be some misunderstanding.
Why would not he play ? no reason not playing imo.
Also he's there, just check his flight, check the airport, call other player "have you seen white ra"
Rule is Rule, i do not go against it, white ra did not show up, forfeit.
But did you really put that much effort finding him ?
2 mails 1 call and just chill, waiting for something to happen.
nah next time, just put more effort.
White-Ra went out partying instead, check a few posts back for photos. I not on either players side but I still disagree with July's decision to take an easy win. I can understand though why everyone feel he deserves it, but NASL should have not made him wait that long.
so it's somehow july's fault when whitera is out partying instead of playing his scheduled match? what? july waited 4 hours let alone waking up at 4 am in the morning to be ready for his match
Nothing wrong with this getting veto'd and July taking a free win. It's a shame they didn't get to play but people saying the NASL didn't try hard enough is laughable. The match was scheduled. A player didn't show up. Player who did show up collects a free win. This is how most tournaments go. This should be no exception, it's unfortunate, because I'm a White-Ra fan, but the rules are the rules.
I don't quite understand why there is 39 pages. White-Ra didn't show up. JulyZerg did. what else is there to post? Every pro who enters a tournament knows their obligation and has to make an educated decision or uneducated decision on which tournament they should choose to participate in.
Sounds reasonable. There was a risk, and he/the NASL took it.
They can both learn from this, and take into account such risks in the future. Perhaps allowing a 2 hour max delay, else it's a loss. That would mean in the players case that they need to bring a laptop, or check out if there's a place nearby with internet and/or computer access. Something like that.
It's a shame 'cause I was curious about said match up. But I think the NASL did a good job.
This is such an unfortunate incident... I think there may have been some miscommunications between nasl and white-ra before dreamhack, because he said on his stream that he assumed the match would be resheduled. I don't disagree with the nasl giving the win to July, but perhaps they could extend the same courtesy to white-ra as they did to naniwa. Give july the win but don't count the loss to white-ra. Just my opinion though.
July clearly didnt want to get free win as he was waiting for oh so long. Feeling sorry for white ra but well, he knew if he gets to the finals he wont be able to do it.
On April 15 2011 20:11 Jate wrote: "After two emails and a phone call to White-Ra, I heard no response."
Wow that's a lot of effort looking for someone important(sarcastic of cause : P )
sorry, i just read the topic and reply, havent read the whole threat yet.
Has Whitera said anything respond to this, i am pretty sure there must be some misunderstanding.
Why would not he play ? no reason not playing imo.
Also he's there, just check his flight, check the airport, call other player "have you seen white ra"
Rule is Rule, i do not go against it, white ra did not show up, forfeit.
But did you really put that much effort finding him ?
2 mails 1 call and just chill, waiting for something to happen.
nah next time, just put more effort.
White-Ra went out partying instead, check a few posts back for photos. I not on either players side but I still disagree with July's decision to take an easy win. I can understand though why everyone feel he deserves it, but NASL should have not made him wait that long.
Those photos doesn't prove anything without context.
White-ra hasnt said anything about this because he already knew it would happen. He decided to go out and get the loss. Only an idiot wouldn't expect that to happen .
I'm quite surprised that this thread has gone on this long. I've been keeping up with it for the past few days since it started.
July waited 4 hours and that is amazing. I doubt anyone posting on this thread would wait 4 hours for someone to play.
As for NASL rescheduling I don't think that is a good idea because if they reschedule for one player attending a tournament then all the other players will demand the same treatment. That will just ruin the whole tournament.
I'm disappointed that they didn't play but both players are really good and I can see them both going far in this tournament so I'm sure we'll see them play again.
The only thing I hope for is that such forfeits don't become a common occurrence.
Either way, this isn't some open tournament where it would be an abomination to let someone like whitera lose via forfeit vs a random, it's hard to argue with the situation. If you want to be a progamer, and many have learned this the hard way, you really have to keep a BOOK with your schedules and talk to people, set everything up in advance, etc. You also have to prioritize; which league do you have the best chance to place well in? Which offers the best prizes? Risk vs potential reward? Top players in ANY RTS game need to take this into consideration. White-Ra was a top foreign BW player, but money and pro-gaming wasn't really and issue in foreign BW. It is now in foreign SC2, which is why players from other RTS games who COULD compete for money in their games because they weren't dominated by Koreans (KiwiKaki from WC3 and SeleCT from DoW come to mind) seem to have everything down a little better. There were foreign progamers in other games because Korea was wholly focused on SCBW. These players know how to make decisions and balance tournaments, which is actually a difficult thing to do. Imagine trying to decide between practice for WCG and attending another tournament where you could win 5k USD or something like that? Just an example.
On April 17 2011 10:11 LF9 wrote: Either way, this isn't some open tournament where it would be an abomination to let someone like whitera lose via forfeit vs a random, it's hard to argue with the situation. If you want to be a progamer, and many have learned this the hard way, you really have to keep a BOOK with your schedules and talk to people, set everything up in advance, etc. You also have to prioritize; which league do you have the best chance to place well in? Which offers the best prizes? Risk vs potential reward? Top players in ANY RTS game need to take this into consideration. White-Ra was a top foreign BW player, but money and pro-gaming wasn't really and issue in foreign BW. It is now in foreign SC2, which is why players from other RTS games who COULD compete for money in their games because they weren't dominated by Koreans (KiwiKaki from WC3 and SeleCT from DoW come to mind) seem to have everything down a little better. There were foreign progamers in other games because Korea was wholly focused on SCBW. These players know how to make decisions and balance tournaments, which is actually a difficult thing to do. Imagine trying to decide between practice for WCG and attending another tournament where you could win 5k USD or something like that? Just an example.
EPT
White-Ra and 
July. As a result, July has been awarded a 2-0 forfeit victory in their match. NASL explained the decision as follows:
though white ra can still make it out, so no worries people
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