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I have got to agree with everything in the original post.
Also I'd like to add a few of my own:
1. Add some sort of better image/video footage in the background behind the casters, it seems very dull just looking at the "NASL" logo the whole time.
2. The "map helicopter" in the beginning needs to be improved if it's going to be used in further episodes (maybe add a minimap with a directional arrow to it)
3. BREAK(S), please, most of the people can't sit there and watch the show for 3-4 hours without even a single break! At least 5-10 minutes for every hour and a half or two, or one small one between the matches. This one is kind of important, not only because people need them and don't want to miss anything cool happening during the games, but also because looking at the same thing for a long period of time makes it seem very repetitional and dull. (I suspect this is why you lost about 3-5k viewers gradually over the period of time during the last two hours of the cast).
4. Cut pieces of player interviews as well as having player interviews supposably "SECONDS after the match" is just awkward to watch...
5. obviously the "caster atmosphere" will improve over time, but I feel like this is something that could be worked on actively, casting games offline together might help. We realize that casting together gets some getting used to, and you can't become a great duo (Tastosis) overnight, but offline practice will help improve the experience of the viewers, as well as training new casters four your events/league in the future.
6. Not to step on anyone's toes, but I think you should improve your artwork/production in general. Please don't take this the wrong way, I love the idea of creativity, but the quality has to improve if you want your league to be represented accordingly.
Everything else that I thought could be improved was pretty much mentioned in the original post, hopefully your people take at least some valid points from this thread and start improving.
Once again this is meant as solely constructive criticism, and NOT hate.
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In-Game Music, maybe a dedicated observer, (I don't know if this is possible, maybe it's only in replays) occasional 10 second FP-View like in BW?
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My main concern is the caster's excitement levels throughout any sort of action. When a battle commences, even if it is a small scale harass, the volume levels get so high and the speed of voice is very fast to the point where it's not building excitement, but just exhausting (after seeing the same sequence match after match after match). I could not process every single event with such intensity that would normally be reserved for the major turning points (i.e strong harass, 2 prong attacks, death ball vs death ball).
To work on this, just leave some room to pause. It's ok to not talk to let some of the information sink in as well as build anticipation for the next big battle without having to increase volume/tone/speed. It's difficult to implement overnight, but with practice it becomes easier. Day9 and Tasteosis both leave time for pause and a moderate tempo and only shift into high gear on those important moments.
It is ok to let silence and pause play into the suspense of the moment.
The production was good, the games were swell, I will be paying my $25 very soon (once I have more free time). I look forward to the NASL and it's refinement process to become a high class Starcraft Entertainment Event.
- Jera
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The reason why ill probably never buy NASL premium ticket is that I really don't like Gretrop as a caster. He seems to be so fake...
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Modify the set as much as possible on a budget so it doesn't look like you're casting from a garage. Also, get rid of the t-shirt under blazer outfit.
The combination of those two makes NASL look like a 12 year old's school project and an amateurish vibe is the last thing a tournament of this caliber should have.
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On April 13 2011 12:01 rtclark wrote:
And also, can we please drop the t-shirt and jacket thing? It looks like shit.
I've been wondering about this. I was curious if it was some sort of in-joke in the foreign scene, or if these people actually thought it looked good.
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I'm with most of you, Gretorp is not very good. I was really annoyed by his casting and my non-sc2 friend/roommate came in to watch for a little while and was very turned off by his commentary as well. This displeases me a lot because I know I'm going to be watching this a lot and it's slowly going to turn him off from sc2. He will happily watch the GSL but his first impression of NASL was not good.
I'm not trying to hate on him or anything but just adding my 2 cents in about it.
I will definitely keep watching, Gretorp or not, but my friend is not that interested.
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On April 13 2011 13:29 Phtes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 13:25 neSix wrote:Things I'm disappointed in...Not the NASL! But instead in the fact that people have such negative things to say about a free service that was done very well. I'm not of the belief that you need to be thankful for anything just because it's free; if it's garbage it's garbage. But today's show was far above and beyond anything a reasonable person should ever expect for a free service. I was genuinely expecting to come into this thread and be overwhelmed with the positive comments, but instead there are just pages of people who are impossible to impress. I can't believe everyone is so quick to say negative things about it without offering any constructive criticism. If you wouldn't say it to their face, you probably shouldn't post it online either (not that that stops anyone on the internet from doing it anyway). Shame on all the haters out there. I really feel like you guys want this thing to fail for no good reason!  All in all, great job to Gretorp, Incontrol, and everyone over at NASL. I'm impressed! You guys did a great job! Because I know that you guys will improve upon the obvious minor things as the season goes, I only have one point of criticism to offer: Is it possible to consider offering a trial of the HD stream? I would definitely be interested in purchasing an HD ticket (mostly for the VODs), but I want to make sure that the quality difference is as much as I'm expecting. How do you expect it to improve without critisism? The show is ment to appeal to people so its only natural people give there opinions on what they thought was wrong, sure some of it is out of line like al lthe Gretorp hate (kellymilkies all over again?) either way most of the "negatives" pointed out in this thread are things that need to be addressed, like mic issues, lighting etc. Even if it's a free service, offering opinions on how to improve it is not an attack on them it should be welcomed ideas from it's audience.
My edit wasn't quick enough for your post. Haha, I knew that after initially posting someone was going to interpret it as a "please don't ever say anything bad about NASL ever" post.
I just think that a thread like this should be filled with lots of positive comments for all of the negative ones because there are plenty of areas that can also be commended.
And again, there's a huge difference between offering constructive criticism and just bashing someone else's hard work. My point is aimed solely at those who have nothing good to say or have nothing helpful to offer.
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On April 13 2011 13:25 neSix wrote:Things I'm disappointed in...Not the NASL! But instead in the fact that people have such negative things to say about a free service that was done very well. I'm not of the belief that you need to be thankful for anything just because it's free; if it's garbage it's garbage. But today's show was far above and beyond anything a reasonable person should ever expect for a free service. [edit]I just want to make it clear that I'm saying that I think offering suggestions for improvement is a great thing, but claiming that today's broadcast was anything but a success is foolish in my opinion. And further: I didn't sense a hint of bias or "fakeness" in either caster... but perhaps that's because I've liked both of them from well before today![/edit] I was genuinely expecting to come into this thread and be overwhelmed with the positive comments, but instead there are just pages of people who are impossible to impress. I can't believe everyone is so quick to say negative things about it without offering any constructive criticism. If you wouldn't say it to their face, you probably shouldn't post it online either (not that that stops anyone on the internet from doing it anyway). Shame on all the haters out there. I really feel like you guys want this thing to fail for no good reason! All in all, great job to Gretorp, Incontrol, and everyone over at NASL. I'm impressed! You guys did a great job! Because I know that you guys will improve upon the obvious minor things as the season goes, I only have one point of criticism to offer: Is it possible to consider offering a trial of the HD stream? I would definitely be interested in purchasing an HD ticket (mostly for the VODs), but I want to make sure that the quality difference is as much as I'm expecting.
Let's all be friends Elmo! Uh.. you're posting in a thread for criticism on the NASL, and you're calling the people giving criticism haters? Wtf?
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On April 13 2011 13:15 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 13:14 khOOM wrote:
Gretorp doesn't have the appealing voice of other great casters but his knowledge is exceptional and makes up for it, imo.
As others have stated, divide the 'preshow' content up between each match. That is my best suggestion. he doesnt know how many barracks you can support off 1 base whats your version of exceptional? im not digging on the guy overall, i just wouldnt call his game knowledge exceptional, but as a terran player knowing that is kinda basic.
Totally agree here, I mean what kind of a terran doesn't know how to cheese? It's all 1 base all the time. He's terran for heaven sakes. Oh wait, you're either trolling or retarded. I personally had no idea what one base would support on pure raxs, 3-1-1 is the main I've heard.
I don't mind Gretorp. He was better in other casts that I've heard from him but this time he was just okay. Production tab would be my main complaint, and adding an obs as the person who was the main screen was really torn I think when casting and trying to catch everything. I also like the idea of doing something with the backdrop on the casters.
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The first NASL was a lot better than I was expecting. I was expecting a total trainwreck, but it actually went pretty smoothly (not meant as an insult, I was mostly expecting technical issues which would have been warranted considering this was the first cast). This is coming from someone with the HD pass, so I didn't have commercial problems or anything else that might have effected the LQ stream.
The Good:
1. Production values were very high, and the graphics were pretty.
2. The stream quality was excellent with the HD pass.
3. Incontrol was very charismatic, and seemed to go well with the presentation.
4. There was a lot of content.
The Bad:
1. The audio was offsync many times during the broadcast.
2. The casters talked over each other, and definitely need to sync up better. I can't really complain too much about the casters though, it's not really fair to be super critical after the first cast.
3. The music before the cast started was absolutely awful.
4. The games needed ingame music, along with adjusted sound levels to fit in with the casters.
5. The preshow needs to be removed with the content spread between matches.
6. There are no breaks between matches. There needs to be at least a 5 minute break between series for snacks / restroom breaks.
7. This is more of a personal issue, but I don't like the overlap with day9.
8. Needs better observing / UI management.
The Ugly:
1. The chat was absolutely venomous. Especially with people spouting spoilers every 5 seconds.
2. Lag spikes that cause the game to bring up the "waiting for players" screen need to be dealt with appropriately. If a spike like that effects the game as much as it may have tonight, a regame or some sort of referee decision needs to occur.
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Show a picture of the player being interviewed during the interview, rather than showing gretorp talking into space while incontrol dozes off.
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I think that overall it was very well done. There are definitely some improvements to be made, but I think that for the first day it seemed to go quite smoothly.
As far as suggestions, I will echo other posters' sentiment that they need a dedicated observer so that the casters can deal with commentating and so that the most important information is always displayed. Additionally, I think that the casts should be restructured so that there's more information about players/maps in between games rather than front-loading all of it in the first 30 minutes. Personally, I got bored of it and eventually muted the cast until the matches started.
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I'm sure I'm reiterating stuff
include in-game music while casting
normalize caster sound
turn off bloom
improve spectator camera by a TON. tab information management was horrible.
I'm also unsure if there's some color adjustment being done, but it seems off.
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The casting area looked like the kind of stuff you see in terrorist training videos.
Other than that and in game music/better audio I was pleased.
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Either the lighting is too harsh or something is wrong with the makeup because both incontrol and gretorp look really pale.
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http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=204023
A while back I posted this blog about worrying that the NASL might turn out to be kinda lame. I'm gonna reserve judgment for now because that was only day 1 but I'd like to say that the criticisms in this thread have been very valid. The first thing I'd start working on really, really hard is the casting because I think there's a lot of room for improvement. Fortunately the criticisms I'd make wrt to that have been covered already  I didn't particularly feel that Incontrol or Gretorp did a stellar job. I hope that in the future they work together better(have more chemistry) and resolve some of their own issues as casters.
Overall I'd say the first day went decently well, all considered. I had no problem logging onto the stream which I found conveniently located on the front page of nasl.tv and I watched several of the games in 720p without a hitch.
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On April 13 2011 13:35 Sajimo wrote:
and my non-sc2 friend/roommate came in to watch for a little while and was very turned off by his commentary as well.
This is a really good point. When my girlfriend watches GSL, she can get into it and really enjoy it. But this kind of casting cannot do that. A tournament needs really, really, really good casting in order to do well and *grow*.
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I posted this over on Wellplayed (here) first. I apologize if the formatting didn't translate as well as I would have liked. Hopefully it's just as easy to read on both sites. I was originally going to make a topic, but this one is already here so I thought I'd share in the middle of it.
Introduction
Today marked the first presentation of the North American Star League. There was a lot of excitement and drama getting us to this point, but was it worth it? I hope to examine the answer to this question critically by emphasizing what I feel can be improved upon. Before I do that though, let me say what I felt went right.
What Went Right
I'm keeping this section concise and quick because I felt that overall tonight was an amazing success! I want to congratulate the entire NASL team for winning me over on night number one.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2BX7Ps.jpg) - First, let me emphasize how perfect Gretorp and InControl interact. They aren't Tastosis, but they shouldn't be. Their combined intelligence and excitement works really well. Their practice since Clash of the Titans is obvious to the point of silliness.
- The observer (note that I couldn't tell who this was... sometimes I thought it was Geoff, other times I thought it was Andre; even other times I thought they might have had someone behind the scenes. Maybe they were switching between views? I have no idea what their producer is doing behind the scenes) did a fantastic job. There was always action on the screen when there was action during the game. Obviously not everything was caught, but I was never screaming to get them to move the view elsewhere.
- There was a good amount of allusions to the games that happened before. This shows how much the casters are paying attention to the meta-game and it really helps me to grasp the high level play that I am personally not capable of accomplishing.
- Finally, the after game banter was perfect. It was succinct and useful.
Where Improvements Can or Should be Made
Most of these are suggestions, not requirements, but I highly suggest that the NASL team look through this list and pick the ones that they can do quickly, cheaply, and correctly and implement them! Others are simple nagging items that many will not give a rats ass about. This show is so close to perfect, for it's format, that I can't emphasize that these are improvement suggestions not necessary fixes.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5ImCKs.jpg) Audio / Video / StreamingI am not a subscriber. Yet. I can't afford it at the moment, but I can feel myself purchasing as soon as I can. So, all of this feedback will be coming from the 480p stream. + Show Spoiler +- The voice audio sounds like amateur hour. You need more professional mics. You do. You really really do. The amount of class that can be added to a show from having proper audio equipment is astounding. Now, like I said, I'm on the 480p stream so it may just be the lower quality. I have no idea how Justin.TV downsamples from 1080p for the lower qualities. So if this is complete bonkers, someone please tell me.
- The video is a bit laggy. I can see your mouths skip around instead of seeing fluid movement. Again, perhaps the downsampling is seriously hurting the quality here, I don't know. This is a bit of a worry as I cannot handle 1080p in a Flash based player. So, if I pay for 720p am I still not going to get smooth playback?
- Your commercials were very oddly timed. You need to pause the show. Don't cut me off because I didn't pay. I'm happy to watch your commercials and click on them if they interest me. This brings me to the most important point of this whole post. Pace the show! It is so very very long. I need to be able to go grab a snack, take a smoke break, go poop, check the chatroom, etc. Adding a 3 minute break between each match would make; a world of difference a 5-7 minute break around the halfway point (or 2/3 point) would also be very nice. I would say, talk with JTV and see if you can get some longer commercials, or back to back commercials for this time. Or find another sponsor and play their extended ad. Maybe show a highlight clip. Something .
- I love your score overlay that builds into the built-in one. Leave it up! Also, you have plenty of room to add spawn locations.
- I also love your little ads in the left hand corner above the timer. This is such a great way to protect your product from piracy. I say, use this to your advantage find some sponsors to advertise in this space. It's non-intrusive and not too distracting. Maybe only do this for ... perhaps.... free VODs?!?!? :D:D:D:D:D
- Production Tab. Sometimes you'll switch away from it for something. Tonight's big one was the resources lost tab. First of all, thank you for showing it to me when you are talking about it. It is really helpful. When you are done though, please go back to the production tab.
- Your backdrop is purty but very bland. Consider adding something to it such as a video box added in post production to show a picture or video of what you are talking about. Dynamicism is important in keeping me interested and making me feel like I'm listening to a cast about a war game and not 60 Minutes.
- Your casting is very technical and this is a great thing. I get all the information I want out of you. The only problem is, your jokes are also technical and making a point. Break the barrier from time to time (for brief moments) and be non-players. This is something Tastosis have mastered and is one of the reasons they are so watchable by everyone. I'm sure this will eventually come naturally to you guys as you have soooooo many games to cast.
- Transitions: Your set to set transitions went very smoothly. Your match to match transitions were very harsh and abrupt though. Give me a visual and audio cue that is decently long to move me into the next Bo3. Since the broadcast is pre-recorded you have the ability to do this in post-production. Use this to your advantage!! - Hide the menu bar please :D
- I've grown accustomed to having epic camera work as battles begin. Practice this and add it in when you are comfortable :D. Ctrl-W, Insert, Delete, and your mouse scroll can really be your friend.
- The player intro at the start of each set is unique giving you a good sense of independence. A little bit of photoshop polish can make it really stand out, but the most important thing to change about this is the positioning of each player. If the player is above his opponent on the map, put his half on top. If he is to the left, put his screen on the left. It's a simple change that can really cue your viewers in to where the players are since we are getting a very very small look at the minimap.
Conclusions
Fucking fantastic job.
One final word for InControl from Gretorp:
+ Show Spoiler +
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I personally couldn't even watch. I turned it on to catch the Morrow match but had troubles with the stream quality and lag. Probably wasn't like that for everyone because there were 23k viewers or something. Hopefully I can watch tomorrow because I'm really excited for good matches.
Fingers crossed that there will be constant improvements in the entire production value from NASL.
C
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WPuHb.jpg)
