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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On April 28 2011 10:15 x6Paramore wrote:
I think one of the casters needs to be less critical. You aren't trying to teach a lesson on live stream... you aren't giving a day9 daily and you aren't coaching anyone either. You are there to bring the event to life. Describe what is going on, analyze the situation at hand, but don't go TOO in depth about what the other player "should" have done. Yeah, its okay to mention what he could have done... but you aren't there to commentate on what the game would have looked like if both players played perfectly.
Objectivity is pretty key in what I just mentioned as well.
Disagree. One of the benefits of having 2 progamer casters is they can dissect the game and talk about the mistakes / other options.
Not sure why you would ever want less information in a cast. We can just gush over everything these guys do if you like.. nah, that'd be bad.
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Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but a quick little fix would be hiding the control groups and menu bars displays for the observer. Makes the game look cleaner  . Also hiding all of the display during big battles would be nice.
Other than that great job with the game observer so far!
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FIX THE STREAM LAG.
NASL has a lot of problems, but all of them are secondary. The stream currently lags every single time there's an engagement, so we can't see any of the decisive moments of the game. It basically turns into a slideshow of before and after with nothing else.
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On April 28 2011 11:34 hmunkey wrote:
FIX THE STREAM LAG.
NASL has a lot of problems, but all of them are secondary. The stream currently lags every single time there's an engagement, so we can't see any of the decisive moments of the game. It basically turns into a slideshow of before and after with nothing else.
It's definitely gotten better from the first week, but this is definitely issue #1 that NASL needs to fix. If they can get the stream lagless, NASL will be well on it's way to solidifying itself.
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One more time, please.
My shit internet connection in Aus doesn't allow for seemless 1080 steaming. I'm 3kms away from the exchange. If you want this to be global, you have to cater for more than those within 1.5kms from an exchange.
I've bought a pass because the initial stream is on at 10:00 am, so I'm at work. The restream is at 2:00 am, so I'm asleep, because I have to be up for work. The idea of buying a ticket was SOULY for the VODS (unlike GOM, where I pay for the HQ stream, as I'm able to watch it live due to time zones.)
Because I have to click, wait for the VOD to buffer for 15 minutes, then I can actually watch, it is simply TOO MUCH HASSLE. I have watched about 4 games this way. I'd rather listen to Destiny yell at one of his students for having poor control. Infact, I'd rather listen to Sheth singing.
Then also, the games are often labeled incorrectly, or poorly, or the VoD is part 2/3 and it starts in the middle of a game, which means I spend that 15 minutes of buffering, only to find that its not the game I'm looking for, or its the last 4 minutes of a game I haven't seen the first 10 minutes of. It is simply a headfuck
Not only does the 1080 ONLY option cause those problems, but the extra pixels mean FUCK ALL because my laptop (i7, 12 months old) has a max resolution of 1366x768, So that extra third of bandwidth (or lack there of) means NOTHING to me! Its the proverbial tits on a bull senario.
Without the forementioned changes, I won't be buying any future tickets. I wish the NASL the best, and I try to support the SC2 scene as much as I can by buying tickets to GomTV/MLG / donating to streamers directly, etc. But at least I'm getting something from these providers.
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BALANCE THE FREAKING SOUND, honestly how in something so high key, could they screw something so simple up, it hurts my ears to have it blaring in my right ear and barely audible in the left, how can they honestly not have balanced audio, completely ridiculous, every other stream does. so ridiculous, it feels like incontrol is in way over his head, but thank god for the IPL
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On April 28 2011 11:39 TheAlchemist89 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 11:34 hmunkey wrote:
FIX THE STREAM LAG.
NASL has a lot of problems, but all of them are secondary. The stream currently lags every single time there's an engagement, so we can't see any of the decisive moments of the game. It basically turns into a slideshow of before and after with nothing else. It's definitely gotten better from the first week, but this is definitely issue #1 that NASL needs to fix. If they can get the stream lagless, NASL will be well on it's way to solidifying itself.
agree, has gotten better. it used to be that you could actually see the low fps. now the fps is much better. but we need more fps for smoother viewing and most importantly you gotta fix the lag spikes that occur during big battles or randomly. we are not lying, we are not hallucinating, we are trying to help you help yourself. thank you.
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On April 28 2011 11:34 hmunkey wrote:
FIX THE STREAM LAG.
NASL has a lot of problems, but all of them are secondary. The stream currently lags every single time there's an engagement, so we can't see any of the decisive moments of the game. It basically turns into a slideshow of before and after with nothing else.
INDEED!
It is NOT me, it is them, doesn;t even seem like a JustinTV problem since most of the time the audio keep going but the video is frozen and or skipping. Sometimes it will just cut, and jump a few seconds ahead and distort the sound into some high pitch clicky crap for a second. I have a 9 MBPS internet and it does this at 1080p, 720p, and 420p, havnt tried any worse quality since if it is still doing it at 420 then going down more probably wont fix it.
I have NO ISSUES streaming IGN at 1080p so wtf NASL>?????
It also messes up now and then on the VODs, live today was almost unwatchable at all qualities...
FIX IT PLEASE, for our sake and yours!!!
EDIT:
On April 28 2011 11:47 Slago wrote:
BALANCE THE FREAKING SOUND, honestly how in something so high key, could they screw something so simple up, it hurts my ears to have it blaring in my right ear and barely audible in the left, how can they honestly not have balanced audio, completely ridiculous, every other stream does. so ridiculous, it feels like incontrol is in way over his head, but thank god for the IPL
And this, please, O my God, seriously have to turn my sound up way higher than anything else I watch, and then it is still quiet until they scream and then my speakers want to explode.
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I e-mailed the NASL several times last week concerning some account problems I was having. I haven't heard back from them. This is their way of handling customer support.
These guys are a bunch of amateurs. I will not subscribe to them in season 2. I discourage anybody else from subscribing to them in season 2 as their customer service is non-existent.
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I disagree about the comment about casters being critical. I think it shows when a caster is good when they can point out if a player is making mistakes. As a viewer I'm totally not at the same level as the pros, but when I have a good caster who can clearly point out mistakes the professionals are making, especially in a way I can be like "oh yea he definitely is doing a mistake that I try to avoid (like supply block or trying to tech switch to mass raven like TLO did too late) than it makes me really appreciate the game more and the decision making going on.
Now obviously if the caster is saying he doesn't like or something is a mistake that clearly isn't, without clear reasoning, then that's a problem. But when a caster can't give such insight, I feel like they are sorely lacking. It doesn't make the player look bad, it just shows they are making a mistake because the other player is forcing them. It doesn't make the caster look bad, because they are either pointing out that what the player is doing is outside of the norm and something we should appreciate (either as a mistake we should avoid, a risk that can pay off or hurt, or something new that we haven't seen before). Now a good caster will be able to point out what possible situations the 'mistake' could work in as well, or be able to say why he thinks the player is making it.
What separates the pros from the rest of us is the decisions they make, and when casters can find those decisions, I really appreciate it. It reminds me I'm not watching just some Diamonds playing against each other. And when they can point out the mistakes, it helps me realize that I shouldn't make those mistakes either to improve. I'm not just talking about criticism either, when a caster can realize an extremely strategic or smart decision a player makes too that most may not notice, that's awesome too.
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On April 28 2011 11:47 Slago wrote:
BALANCE THE FREAKING SOUND, honestly how in something so high key, could they screw something so simple up, it hurts my ears to have it blaring in my right ear and barely audible in the left, how can they honestly not have balanced audio, completely ridiculous, every other stream does. so ridiculous, it feels like incontrol is in way over his head, but thank god for the IPL
Agreed with this. I was watching.... and I eventually just stopped because it was annoying the hell out of me that my right ear was dying and I felt deaf in my left ear.
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So, I watched the show tonight...well it's morning here actually. But anyway here's my tip for you guys. Hope you take up on it. Stop being so funny and awesome. Like, it's 5 am here and I can't be laughing my ass off to your funny jokes and waking up everyone in the house. So yeah, some consideration plz. Or maybe add a joke-free stream where you sensor out all the good stuff.
Ok second complaint...mmm oh wait there isn't any. Actually you are doing awesome job. I'll have to tune in tomorrow and see if I can come up with something.
Thanks.
ps. the casters seemed somewhat biased in the last match 
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Saying this here as this is the more "solid feedback thread" for NASL, and I like to try and balance the negative feedback out a bit.
I'm really loving the banter-style and banter-heavy casting. The reason it works so well here and it also works for Tasteosis is simple: The NASL has a lot of games. I don't know if iNctorp read these threads, but if you do, keep it up. Play by play and srsface casting in every single match when you have 25 best of 3s a week just wears any spectator out.
They comment when the action is happening, and point out all the good things players are doing, and in the time between they keep the NASL broadcast entertaining. Also - no production snags tonight aside from occasional stream choppiness, which isn't NASL-based anyway, feels more like JTV's problem. You guys are doing in three weeks what it took the GSL 3 seasons to achieve, seriously well done. With time I'm hoping for more flashy frills and extras (a la IPL) but for now its just solid, enjoyable watching
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On April 28 2011 11:29 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 10:15 x6Paramore wrote:
I think one of the casters needs to be less critical. You aren't trying to teach a lesson on live stream... you aren't giving a day9 daily and you aren't coaching anyone either. You are there to bring the event to life. Describe what is going on, analyze the situation at hand, but don't go TOO in depth about what the other player "should" have done. Yeah, its okay to mention what he could have done... but you aren't there to commentate on what the game would have looked like if both players played perfectly.
Objectivity is pretty key in what I just mentioned as well. Disagree. One of the benefits of having 2 progamer casters is they can dissect the game and talk about the mistakes / other options. Not sure why you would ever want less information in a cast. We can just gush over everything these guys do if you like.. nah, that'd be bad.
You guys basically do gush over everything these guys do... saying.. "this is bad, this is the wrong way" Then today there was an instance, where you targeted a player and his team-mates saying they should have a clan meeting and get their shit together. Whether that is right or wrong, it just destroys the quality of the show. Do you see tasteless and artosis calling out team Slayers during a GSL cast, saying they really need to shape up a particular player or have a team meeting?
Forget tastosis, it would be unreasonable to compare professionals who have done this longer than you. I won't even expect you to be as objective as TotalBiscuit, who you claim to have no game knowledge, when in fact, most noobs probably learn way more about SC2 watching him than hearing you talk about "how awesome the creep spread is" for 20 seconds every zerg match you see... Seriously, you mention it way too often... a simple half-second mention of "great creep spread here by zerg" is good enough for something so menial.
What I expect from watching something that is sponsored and paid and has cash prizes to the amounts that can compare to GSL, is professionalism and objectivity. Otherwise, I might as well be watching Fox News dubbed over NASL trashing how bad "Blue" is in one corner and promoting how awesome "Red" is on the other corner with absolutely no basis or quality facts to prove it.
Also, being better at the game does not mean you know more about the game. Just like how professional hockey commentators can't necessarily play professional hockey. Therefore it is not that big of an advantage to have professional commentators over commentators that are less skilled in the game itself but have a much better social presentation of their content.
Yes, being professional gamers does give you an advantage over random scrubs that have never touched a microphone or played the game, but again, it does not give you much of an advantage over someone like Day9 or Artosis or TotalBiscuit or Tasteless.
Furthermore, being overcritical about players specific actions just ends up being more whiney. I don't need to see some grown ass man raging about why a certain zerg left the game abruptly player uprooted his spine-crawlers at a bad moment at his expansion on close positions in Shattered Temple. All a commentator needs to do is recognize that that particular player felt it was time to throw in the towel and move on. There's no need to go into a 60 second rant about how its the NASL and he should have tried to play out the game. You have no idea what the player is thinking in his head. Maybe he has a better picture of his status than you do and in his mind he felt he lost, which is pretty much as good as losing the game already. (But yeah thats getting way too specific)
Either way, thats my 2cents, you can take it or leave it. If all I hear is going to be incessant whining about particular details or what-ifs that draw attention from what really matters on the camera, then I can always mute. None the less, this thread asked for my opinion and I gave it.
Regards.
P.S. its not about less content, its about more quality content. Right now its IMHO not good.
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On April 28 2011 11:40 BrahCJ wrote:
One more time, please.
My shit internet connection in Aus doesn't allow for seemless 1080 steaming. I'm 3kms away from the exchange. If you want this to be global, you have to cater for more than those within 1.5kms from an exchange.
I've bought a pass because the initial stream is on at 10:00 am, so I'm at work. The restream is at 2:00 am, so I'm asleep, because I have to be up for work. The idea of buying a ticket was SOULY for the VODS (unlike GOM, where I pay for the HQ stream, as I'm able to watch it live due to time zones.)
Because I have to click, wait for the VOD to buffer for 15 minutes, then I can actually watch, it is simply TOO MUCH HASSLE. I have watched about 4 games this way. I'd rather listen to Destiny yell at one of his students for having poor control. Infact, I'd rather listen to Sheth singing.
Then also, the games are often labeled incorrectly, or poorly, or the VoD is part 2/3 and it starts in the middle of a game, which means I spend that 15 minutes of buffering, only to find that its not the game I'm looking for, or its the last 4 minutes of a game I haven't seen the first 10 minutes of. It is simply a headfuck
Not only does the 1080 ONLY option cause those problems, but the extra pixels mean FUCK ALL because my laptop (i7, 12 months old) has a max resolution of 1366x768, So that extra third of bandwidth (or lack there of) means NOTHING to me! Its the proverbial tits on a bull senario.
Without the forementioned changes, I won't be buying any future tickets. I wish the NASL the best, and I try to support the SC2 scene as much as I can by buying tickets to GomTV/MLG / donating to streamers directly, etc. But at least I'm getting something from these providers.
Your experience matches mine exactly. Without an option to view VODs at less than 1080 I won't be watching any more matches (actually haven't been able to watch a complete match yet). I can't watch it at 1080 anyway (old laptop) so it is just a waste of everyone's bandwidth. Waiting 30-60 minutes for it to buffer is too much hastle and I would rather spend my time watching GomTv, etc..
However I am happy to support the SC2 scene by buying tickets regardless of casting, audio or video quality etc but not be able to watch the matches at all is a deal-breaker. At this point I consider my ticket purchase a donation to the cause. I just hope it is a worthwhile one.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On April 28 2011 14:53 x6Paramore wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 11:29 iNcontroL wrote:On April 28 2011 10:15 x6Paramore wrote:
I think one of the casters needs to be less critical. You aren't trying to teach a lesson on live stream... you aren't giving a day9 daily and you aren't coaching anyone either. You are there to bring the event to life. Describe what is going on, analyze the situation at hand, but don't go TOO in depth about what the other player "should" have done. Yeah, its okay to mention what he could have done... but you aren't there to commentate on what the game would have looked like if both players played perfectly.
Objectivity is pretty key in what I just mentioned as well. Disagree. One of the benefits of having 2 progamer casters is they can dissect the game and talk about the mistakes / other options. Not sure why you would ever want less information in a cast. We can just gush over everything these guys do if you like.. nah, that'd be bad. You guys basically do gush over everything these guys do... saying.. "this is bad, this is the wrong way" Then today there was an instance, where you targeted a player and his team-mates saying they should have a clan meeting and get their shit together. Whether that is right or wrong, it just destroys the quality of the show. Do you see tasteless and artosis calling out team Slayers during a GSL cast, saying they really need to shape up a particular player or have a team meeting? Forget tastosis, it would be unreasonable to compare professionals who have done this longer than you. I won't even expect you to be as objective as TotalBiscuit, who you claim to have no game knowledge, when in fact, most noobs probably learn way more about SC2 watching him than hearing you talk about "how awesome the creep spread is" for 20 seconds every zerg match you see... Seriously, you mention it way too often... a simple half-second mention of "great creep spread here by zerg" is good enough for something so menial. What I expect from watching something that is sponsored and paid and has cash prizes to the amounts that can compare to GSL, is professionalism and objectivity. Otherwise, I might as well be watching Fox News dubbed over NASL trashing how bad "Blue" is in one corner and promoting how awesome "Red" is on the other corner with absolutely no basis or quality facts to prove it. Also, being better at the game does not mean you know more about the game. Just like how professional hockey commentators can't necessarily play professional hockey. Therefore it is not that big of an advantage to have professional commentators over commentators that are less skilled in the game itself but have a much better social presentation of their content. Yes, being professional gamers does give you an advantage over random scrubs that have never touched a microphone or played the game, but again, it does not give you much of an advantage over someone like Day9 or Artosis or TotalBiscuit or Tasteless. Furthermore, being overcritical about players specific actions just ends up being more whiney. I don't need to see some grown ass man raging about why a certain zerg left the game abruptly player uprooted his spine-crawlers at a bad moment at his expansion on close positions in Shattered Temple. All a commentator needs to do is recognize that that particular player felt it was time to throw in the towel and move on. There's no need to go into a 60 second rant about how its the NASL and he should have tried to play out the game. You have no idea what the player is thinking in his head. Maybe he has a better picture of his status than you do and in his mind he felt he lost, which is pretty much as good as losing the game already. (But yeah thats getting way too specific) Either way, thats my 2cents, you can take it or leave it. If all I hear is going to be incessant whining about particular details or what-ifs that draw attention from what really matters on the camera, then I can always mute. None the less, this thread asked for my opinion and I gave it. Regards. P.S. its not about less content, its about more quality content. Right now its IMHO not good.
We've been called too complementary. Honestly you are the first to call us "overly critical."
Frankly I think both are fine
Thx though!
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On April 28 2011 14:58 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 14:53 x6Paramore wrote:On April 28 2011 11:29 iNcontroL wrote:On April 28 2011 10:15 x6Paramore wrote:
I think one of the casters needs to be less critical. You aren't trying to teach a lesson on live stream... you aren't giving a day9 daily and you aren't coaching anyone either. You are there to bring the event to life. Describe what is going on, analyze the situation at hand, but don't go TOO in depth about what the other player "should" have done. Yeah, its okay to mention what he could have done... but you aren't there to commentate on what the game would have looked like if both players played perfectly.
Objectivity is pretty key in what I just mentioned as well. Disagree. One of the benefits of having 2 progamer casters is they can dissect the game and talk about the mistakes / other options. Not sure why you would ever want less information in a cast. We can just gush over everything these guys do if you like.. nah, that'd be bad. You guys basically do gush over everything these guys do... saying.. "this is bad, this is the wrong way" Then today there was an instance, where you targeted a player and his team-mates saying they should have a clan meeting and get their shit together. Whether that is right or wrong, it just destroys the quality of the show. Do you see tasteless and artosis calling out team Slayers during a GSL cast, saying they really need to shape up a particular player or have a team meeting? Forget tastosis, it would be unreasonable to compare professionals who have done this longer than you. I won't even expect you to be as objective as TotalBiscuit, who you claim to have no game knowledge, when in fact, most noobs probably learn way more about SC2 watching him than hearing you talk about "how awesome the creep spread is" for 20 seconds every zerg match you see... Seriously, you mention it way too often... a simple half-second mention of "great creep spread here by zerg" is good enough for something so menial. What I expect from watching something that is sponsored and paid and has cash prizes to the amounts that can compare to GSL, is professionalism and objectivity. Otherwise, I might as well be watching Fox News dubbed over NASL trashing how bad "Blue" is in one corner and promoting how awesome "Red" is on the other corner with absolutely no basis or quality facts to prove it. Also, being better at the game does not mean you know more about the game. Just like how professional hockey commentators can't necessarily play professional hockey. Therefore it is not that big of an advantage to have professional commentators over commentators that are less skilled in the game itself but have a much better social presentation of their content. Yes, being professional gamers does give you an advantage over random scrubs that have never touched a microphone or played the game, but again, it does not give you much of an advantage over someone like Day9 or Artosis or TotalBiscuit or Tasteless. Furthermore, being overcritical about players specific actions just ends up being more whiney. I don't need to see some grown ass man raging about why a certain zerg left the game abruptly player uprooted his spine-crawlers at a bad moment at his expansion on close positions in Shattered Temple. All a commentator needs to do is recognize that that particular player felt it was time to throw in the towel and move on. There's no need to go into a 60 second rant about how its the NASL and he should have tried to play out the game. You have no idea what the player is thinking in his head. Maybe he has a better picture of his status than you do and in his mind he felt he lost, which is pretty much as good as losing the game already. (But yeah thats getting way too specific) Either way, thats my 2cents, you can take it or leave it. If all I hear is going to be incessant whining about particular details or what-ifs that draw attention from what really matters on the camera, then I can always mute. None the less, this thread asked for my opinion and I gave it. Regards. P.S. its not about less content, its about more quality content. Right now its IMHO not good. We've been called too complementary. Honestly you are the first to call us "overly critical." Frankly I think both are fine Thx though!
You are kind of missing the point. Its good to be critical on things like objective analysis and attention to detail. Its bad to be critical because you have a particular opinion on something that others might not share.
Alot of it really does come down to phrasing. "I felt this was bad" = You felt. "This may have been a bad decision" = carefully constructed sentence to convey that some may think it was a bad decision".
I like game analysis. I like it when a commentator says... "You know, if he had just stopped mining gas, he may have had some extra minerals to perhaps build a spinecrawler to deal with this 4gate push" As opposed to "The zerg clearly should have stopped mining gas, that way he would have held the 4gate off".
You can't make that judgement. Maybe the 4gate would have won regardless due to superior micro.
So it'd be nice if commentary was more objective and your preconceptions about other players were checked at the door. We don't care if you have beef or if you are the greatest fan. Not saying that you shouldn't have an opinion. Just don't make it the majority of your commentary, which you do now.
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I love what you guys are doing, but I do have one complaint.
You guys are letting the criticism get to you and it's coming out during the cast. Today's cast in particular was especially sarcastic and it just rubbed me the wrong way. It made it less enjoyable.
I could care less about what people are criticizing you for (bias or whatever it was you guys were going on about). I just want some good commentary and funny banter with my SC2.
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IMO, NASL has gotten miles better than when it started out. And i also loved todays cast. The down moments in the game were correctly filled with hilarity, and it was well done. Maybe it was a little overboard, maybe, but I loved it. It was very entertaining to watch, and I honestly will be watching more NASL because of today.
iNc, you are doing a great job, don't let the haters get to you. (Gretorp too )
I don't want to see the casting style change.
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I tune in every so often but then usually wind up watching something else, the lag is so annoying and it always seems to happen during a battle. It's crazy because I can watch the gom stream in hq and various player streams in HD but I get bad lag on 360p for NASL. There's nothing worse than a hiccupy TV show.
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EPT
