It's not like we're a bunch of adults paying big money for a football game. We're all a bunch of kids playing a video game, so the idea you want professionalism just smacks of irony. Like the biggest group of trolls and nerds in the world suddenly want professionalism. el oh el.
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That's the reason and mentality that makes practically impossible for E-Sports in NA to grow to the Korean level and be taken seriously. I'm a 29-year -old engineer, paying costumer (NASL, GSL) and would love to see E-Sports succeed in NA.
It's not like we're a bunch of adults paying big money for a football game. We're all a bunch of kids playing a video game, so the idea you want professionalism just smacks of irony. Like the biggest group of trolls and nerds in the world suddenly want professionalism. el oh el.
.
That's the reason and mentality that makes practically impossible for E-Sports in NA to grow to the Korean level and be taken seriously. I'm a 29-year -old engineer, paying costumer (NASL, GSL) and would love to see E-Sports succeed in NA.
I would like to echo this man's sentiments! A certain level of professionalism can, I think, expand the potential audience for Esports as a whole.
On April 26 2011 08:06 Sega92 wrote: don't let the results get spoiled, oh wait thats right they only record their games the day before not weeks so...yeah go NASL, stick it to IGN
It's not like we're a bunch of adults paying big money for a football game. We're all a bunch of kids playing a video game, so the idea you want professionalism just smacks of irony. Like the biggest group of trolls and nerds in the world suddenly want professionalism. el oh el.
.
That's the reason and mentality that makes practically impossible for E-Sports in NA to grow to the Korean level and be taken seriously. I'm a 29-year -old engineer, paying costumer (NASL, GSL) and would love to see E-Sports succeed in NA.
I would like to echo this man's sentiments! A certain level of professionalism can, I think, expand the potential audience for Esports as a whole.
I think the original post is very very wrong. Sure the average pro gamer might not be adults....or the viewers might not be adults. But the people shelling out the bucks for the leagues and sponsors for the teams are very much adults. And even worse adults who have a controlling hand in multi million dollar companies.
Do i think casters should be in suits like in other sports no. But there needs to be a level of professionalism to make a quality product. Something is more likely to succeed when the people running it are acting like professionals and not a bunch of dudes hanging out and trying to put on a good show.
Is nasl's problem lack of professionalism maybe. The casting can be hit and miss but my biggest problem is incontrol is the "spokesman" for the league. He's already a player and commentator and now he's suppose to be the main promotional guy behind it. I just find it weird. Its like everything about the nasl is a mystery except incontrol. He is the only figure head for the company, which is why i think incontrol is getting all of the hate, when he really doesn't deserve it.
This reminds me of when jason lake(manager of complexity) was hyping up the cgs. He was saying its going to be amazing and that if cgs fails esports is going to fail in america. And most of cols fans bought it hook line and sinker. And then when it failed people were like omg you lied to us blah blah blah. Taking out all their frustration/anger at him because he was promoting somethign he believed in. He didn't know that behind the scenes directv would be douches and run it into the ground.
i thought i was the only one who didn't like the t-shirt/jacket thing. dress shirt and tie or go casual, but stop the combo... you might as well wear a tshirt with the tuxedo art on it!
as far as actual casting, i think as long as gretorp practices it more and stops stumbling over his words or gets stuck looking for words, he'll be really good. it'll just be a matter of time. incontrol should probably stop taking everyone's criticisms and bringing them up on air mockingly. i dunno, just seems childish. either ignore the criticisms or address them, but don't mock your paying viewers who want your product to be better.
On April 26 2011 07:35 Belial88 wrote: It blows me away that a bunch of kids playing SC2 are so critical of the casting abilities of professional gamers who have spectator, competitor, and casting experience. If there were tons of them, I'd see. But there are less than 50 casters, and probably less than 20 with any modicum of experience beyond posting youtube videos, and people have the gall to say they suck or this or that.
It's not like we're a bunch of adults paying big money for a football game. We're all a bunch of kids playing a video game, so the idea you want professionalism just smacks of irony. Like the biggest group of trolls and nerds in the world suddenly want professionalism. el oh el.
You got tasteosis, and day9. We get it, every other caster sucks and will never be as good.
I think inControl is exactly what we need. It's not like we're going to get middle aged men here - this is esports, something totally new and not stolid at all. Incontrol is someone who can make it exciting.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not singing the high praises for him here. It's just funny that out of maybe 20 people who can do this job, 17 of them suck, apparently.
My opinion is that the caster should have a Starcraft Brood War background (and I never played Brood War by the way), and while it's preferable they were competitive at least at one point, as long as they are diamond skill level that's fine. I think Husky and HD are just fine. I don't think it's really necessary to be harping about who is better or worse as casters, and just focus on the games.
It blows me away that a) you think everybody who plays this game is a "kid," and b) you apparently think everybody your age, the bunch of nerds and trolls, don't want professionalism.
I don't think you have to be "middle aged" to appreciate professional products, nor do I think this community is as bereft of older people as you apparently do.
Also, straw man arguments FTW (or should I say efff teee doubleu? Am I internet cool now?).
The thing that's always on my mind while watching NASL is how the two are sitting down. They look like they only have heads and shoulders, and to make it more personable I think it would be good to see their hands and arms and bodies. They just look so stuffy and awkward with the suits(maybe it's just incontrol) and how they look on screen. maybe like these guys
^ i think everyone who watches Starcraft 2 is a kid at heart, if you get what I am saying. We know we aren't watching something with a ton of ritual and tradition, and maybe boredom, as sumo wrestling (or golf if you've never seen a real sumo match). This isn't exactly something we dress up for and watch, we watch it because of the youth in us.
I understand the desire for professionalism, and we'll get there. But saying that every single caster EXCEPT day9 and tasteosis suck is a bit ridiculous. I'm also a bit surprised how proper people want things to be. We're going to have goofs, and we're going to have *gasp* inappropriate comments. So what, I'd rather it be that way. We have the potential to shape the future of esports, and I really don't want it to turn into like golf or basketball where people get fired over saying something that may be controversial but is funny. I hope the casters reflect the community - largely inappropriate, awkward, and funny, not something we aren't. I know we all want professionalism and we all may not be kids, but I want the casters to be youthful and awkward and REAL, just like us. It would be too weird if there wasn't that awkward humor and total inappropriateness, to a degree.
Just wanted to comment about iNcontroL talking about player records and the difference between winning now and relaxing later vs. relaxing now and scrambling to win later. I love that and it's what keeps me watching certain series. As the weeks go on, I'd suggest mentioning more and more of that and trying to hype the the possible 'drama', because for a league that runs on for such a long period of time, your opponents get better every week so if you're not doing so well at the start, you need to improve a LOT by the end of the season.
The first 3 days or so were pretty rough but it's getting pretty good now. Also I might suggest being more harsh to some players, not every player plays fantastic, so something like "his control/build order/x was off and his opponent is having no time for games and just crushed his opponent quick and easy".
Finally decided to register on TL and wanted to comment, looking forward for the weeks to come! =]
On April 26 2011 09:01 Taiyoken wrote: Just wanted to comment about iNcontroL talking about player records and the difference between winning now and relaxing later vs. relaxing now and scrambling to win later. I love that and it's what keeps me watching certain series. As the weeks go on, I'd suggest mentioning more and more of that and trying to hype the the possible 'drama', because for a league that runs on for such a long period of time, your opponents get better every week so if you're not doing so well at the start, you need to improve a LOT by the end of the season.
The first 3 days or so were pretty rough but it's getting pretty good now. Also I might suggest being more harsh to some players, not every player plays fantastic, so something like "his control/build order/x was off and his opponent is having no time for games and just crushed his opponent quick and easy".
Finally decided to register on TL and wanted to comment, looking forward for the weeks to come! =]
Yeah I hear ya. We got pretty critical of some players today... it's just a fine line because it is our job to make each player look/sound amazing as well. But it has to be credible So look to some players getting less than stellar comments tbh!
On April 26 2011 04:53 SecondSandwich wrote: I think one problem with the casting is that everyone keeps focusing on Gretorp. I think the real problem is inControl. Let me explain. Gretorp is there for analysis, that is basically his function. Yes, he could be (a lot) more spirited, but his purpose is not to add color with his personality. On the other hand, inControl's purpose is to add color, humor, and personality. I think the majority of the burden for making an entertaining cast lies on the color commentator. I do not think inControl can carry this burden. I think that if they got a new, entertaining color commentator to replace him, we would see a great improvement--much more than replacing Gretorp. Unfortunately, all the focus on Gretorp draws everyone's attention away from inControls faults, which are the true problem.
TL;DR: If you want to make a noticeable improvement in casting, it is inControl that needs to go, not Gretorp.
Why would the fault be more with iNcontroL?
iNcontroL is better at analysis than Gretorp (he's a better player, plays more, and he does more coaching) and he's far funnier. Gretorp is the one who keeps messing up the predictions during the NASL games, seems pretty awkward at times, and can't mesh as well when he teams up with other commentators. iNcontroL is a far better caster, in my opinion.
Granted, that's only a relative evaluation of them (as opposed to an absolute assessment). I'm not saying that Gretorp is terrible; I'm merely saying that iNcontroL is the better of the two. I think Gretorp is decent overall, but iNcontroL is a tier higher.
This is exactly what I am talking about. My point in the previous post was not that Gretorp is a better caster than iNcontrol. The problem is that everyone is focusing on Gretorps faults, and thus ignoring iNcontrol. Of course iNcontrol seems to being doing well in comparison to Gretorp. Having better analysis than Gretorp does not mean you are a good caster.
Having said that, let me clarify the other part of my point.
For any casting duo, there are generally two roles: one person is meant for more play-by-play analysis, the other is meant to add color and entertainment to the cast. (Obviously both casters will do both of these things, but not to the same extent.)
For the NASL, it seems to me that Gretorp is there for the play-by-play analysis (he is certainly not there for the color and personality), and iNcontrol is there to add the color/entertainment/humor.
To have an enjoyable cast, I believe the larger part of the burden lies on the color commentator. S/he is responsible for getting the spectators excited about the games--making them laugh, getting their blood flowing. You can have the best analysis possible, but no one (other than very serious gamers who are interested on a purely intellectual level) is going to watch--especially for upwards of 2 hours--if there is no excitement and entertainment.
This is why I think that replacing the color commentator, i.e. replacing iNcontrol, should make more of a difference than replacing Gretorp--high levels of excitement and entertainment paired with "poor" analysis is easier to deal with than good analysis paired with no entertainment. I am not saying that Gretorp is great and doesn't also need to be replaced, just that focusing on Gretorp's shortcomings is distracting everyone's attention away from a more important, long-term problem, iNcontrol. Replacing Gretorp may improve things, but it would just be a band-aid.
Side note: I guess what I am specifically saying is that iNcontrol needs to be replaced as the color commentator. He could potentially take Gretorp's spot and handle more of the analysis while the new caster supplies the entertainment.
I'm not really sure why people like Day9's casting that much. He's a funny guy and great as a host but other casters have surpassed him I think.
He barely ever takes a step back to look at what player's are doing from a meta perspective, rarely predicts what players are going for (beyond trivial "throwing down those barracks, wants a healthy marine marauder mix which is always good") and most importantly of all makes games sound so very samey.
When he starts to do analysis of what's going on he'll constantly throw in sentences about what's currently on screen in exactly the same voice as the analysis. Very irritating.
Anyways, I like these two and the way they cast. It's very technical and heavy on analysis, I like it. It's great whenever Incontrol bursts out in a mixture of surprise and excitement at what's going on out of nowhere.
On April 26 2011 04:01 iNcontroL wrote: I FUCKING LOVE EG
I don't actually know why anybody looked at that and then came to the conclusion that you would be biased towards EG players. Of course you would. You're on their team, and it's always been obvious that you respect them. I'd be concerned if your quote had said,
I THINK EG IS FUCKING OKAY I GUESS
(Or maybe "if you don't give a fuck, support EG?")
Seriously, every single caster has biases. Some hide them (I think TLO was pretty even during his IEM cast), some show them, (everyone else?) and it's a matter of preference which someone prefers, but half of this thread sitting around and telling someone that they are a horrible caster because they don't line up with a set of personal preferences is pretty absurd.
It's not like we're a bunch of adults paying big money for a football game. We're all a bunch of kids playing a video game, so the idea you want professionalism just smacks of irony. Like the biggest group of trolls and nerds in the world suddenly want professionalism. el oh el.
.
El oh el? I think you are mistaken: you are a kid watching a video game. Don't be assuming about the rest of us kid. And if you really are of that mentality then watching Husky casts on youtube should be sufficient for you. These tournaments are serious business with emphasis on the business part. In the end, when you pay for something, you should demand professionalism.
EPT
So look to some players getting less than stellar comments tbh!
