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Tips you would give to help improve the NASL - Page 68

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Butterz
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
688 Posts
April 23 2011 07:29 GMT
#1341
I dont like Gretorp as a caster. Period . Personal opinion.
Authweight
Profile Joined May 2010
United States304 Posts
April 23 2011 07:39 GMT
#1342
I find the casting fine, and the audio fine. The terribly low framerate is what kills me though. At first I thought it was just my connection being bad, but even in the VODs, the framerate is almost unwatchable. I tried to watch it last night, then switched to wednesday's VODs, then gave up and started watching GSL instead. Tonight I watched IPL and had a great time. Sorry NASL, but unless you step it up I'm leaving for greener pastures :/
trancey
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States430 Posts
April 23 2011 08:57 GMT
#1343
I think the viewers would much rather see all this prize pool money put into the production and stream values of the show, opposed to having this large prize pool that rivals GSL yet doesn't do justice for the viewers (the public that is supposedly making this league money). We as viewers will watch SC2 regardless, just give us eye and ear candy - everything is gold from there.
phil.ipp
Profile Joined May 2010
Austria1067 Posts
April 23 2011 09:22 GMT
#1344
the sound is awful, music to loud, the voice sound like speaking out of a tin can
Bobgrimly
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand250 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 09:37:00
April 23 2011 09:31 GMT
#1345
Esports vs A Sport from a viewers perspective.

Watch A sport. Action is captured and replayed (even if the live game is continuing) and analysed even if only for a few seconds. What does this do? Draws out the exciting parts and helps make it less tedious. Every game has boring parts and exciting parts. Every sports program I have ever watched hides the boring "resetting of positions and basic generic play" by analysing the ACTION that led up to the required reset. They draw out the action to keep you interested and HYPED.

NASL should watch a sports match. Then apply the same logic to how they cast games. CAST FROM REPLAYS till the actual final LIVE tournament. The round robins are great and I love them. But there are so many that you have to fight the one thing entertainers will always have to fight. A BORED AUDIENCE.
Cast from a replay. They have two screens... one could rewind after an action packed battle and reshow the interesting parts, positions/micro etc and then catch up to the other screen which would have effectively skipped some of the boring rallying and remacroing in their base before either side decides to push out again.
This is the ebb and flow of a STARCRAFT game. There are plenty of times to just ignore whats happening as NOTHING is happening that is exciting or interesting or noteworthy. (player A is rebuilding his army.... yay... funnily enough player B is doing the same thing. Takes two extra seconds to note an interesting composition change) Yet that last harrass/defence/timing attack/large scale battle is something I wouldn't mind seeing again.

This way the casters can analyse the interesting stuff and fill the game time with all the interesting stuff. An unseen editor could be watching a third replay and communicate to them about coming back to the current game time so they don't miss anything... you know... like how it happens in sports. It doesn't draw out the game time longer than it actually took to play.Simply makes the game feel more action packed.

I know hardcore players/fans might like to see every nitty gritty detail. But guess what. For a sport to succeed the minority (hardcore fans) have to accept that a little flair/hype is good for a games interest to a larger audience.

I know player A and B are going to macro. I know they are going to build an army. I don't need to see it ALL the time unless there is something unusual or interesting about it. And noting a build order/sim city only takes a few seconds to discuss and then move on.

The biggest problem all esports has right now is no one is casting it like a sport. No one is taking the action and making it MORE than it is. Thats what sports do to hype a game. They focus on the ACTION even replaying it while a live game is continuing. And after a game they SHOW the highlights.

I have no problem with discussing strategies and tactics. I love that. But not taking advantage of the replay abilities is foolish. Live casting and broadcasting later is a waste of the possibilities for making starcraft an INTERESTING ESPORT (because you can't rewind in a live game) to more than just a hardcore fan. Live games are only good to a live AUDIENCE. If the audience is not live you don't need to cast it live.

Someone who is completely new to starcraft can still appreciate the basics and important game winning decisions if a caster is emphasizing them. The caster/commentators job is to show the factors that led to the final result. (while macroing up an army is an important part, it is the least interesting and very rarely main deciding factor as all pros can macro just fine... a league like the NASL isn't a training vid) So that means showing and reshowing the harass/defence/timing pushes/large battles/mass expands etc... you know lights, camera, ACTION.

TL:DR REPLAY the ACTION during and after the game when nothing else is happening. Its what I watch the games for. Generic non hardcore player but lover of starcraft as a SPORT!
For the swarm
Schnullerbacke13
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1199 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 09:51:14
April 23 2011 09:47 GMT
#1346
More music, hype+live athmosphere. Its a bit too nerdy and sober. Maybe even mix in fake audience sound ..
Maybe get a quote of each player before a fight ("i am gonna six pool .. "). Watch how a boxing or wrestling is presented maybe copy some stuff from there ..
21 is half the truth
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 10:15:23
April 23 2011 10:10 GMT
#1347
I think they should cast from replays. Not for any of the reasons above, but because it would be the cheapest and easiest way to alleviate most of their scheduling and editing issues.

The players would have a larger window of time to play their games, and the broadcast team would no longer have to wait around for players to show up to begin casting games. If replays are sent late, they can just move on to casting the next set of replays, or delay the broadcast of a match for a day or two. This would potentially streamline their pipeline and give more time for the editing team to do their jobs effectively.

If necessary, they can rearrange matches, such as show a Division 5 game on a Division 2 day. They could continue to penalize players for being late, but also reward players that submit games ahead of time.

Casting from replays would also make it easier for them to bring in guest casters.

Because the NASL broadcasts are recordings of casts anyways, there is very little benefit to live casting the Divisional play at all. It appears that the IPL games are cast from replays, which gives them time to add more graphics and embellishment. If their games are live casted, I can't tell. Husky, HD and Day 9 have hundreds and thousands of subscribers and no one gives two shits about the games being replays. They just care that they're good games that are commentated well.

What I find kind of amusing is that all the people here on TL that were originally pissing and moaning about NASL not broadcasting 'live' like the GSL are probably the same people that are fawning over IPL. It just goes to show that while public opinion is important, you can't let public opinion dictate what's best for your business. The average person does not truly understand why they like something.







heligebob
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden16 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 10:28:18
April 23 2011 10:26 GMT
#1348
The reason people are upset that it isn't live is because they said it would be at the start. They used the word LIVE in big letters everywhere to the point of confusion about what was acctually live, since, you know, none of it is live. The casting is live i guess. But they didnt say livecasting. They said LIVE, and then pretended to be confused that people didnt get that they were casting the games live, to air them later, which has nothing to do with 'live'. It's an utterly pointless way of doing things and complicates the processes of production, scheduling etc tremendously.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
April 23 2011 10:49 GMT
#1349
On April 23 2011 19:26 heligebob wrote:
The reason people are upset that it isn't live is because they said it would be at the start. They used the word LIVE in big letters everywhere to the point of confusion about what was acctually live, since, you know, none of it is live. The casting is live i guess. But they didnt say livecasting. They said LIVE, and then pretended to be confused that people didnt get that they were casting the games live, to air them later, which has nothing to do with 'live'. It's an utterly pointless way of doing things and complicates the processes of production, scheduling etc tremendously.


I agree, the way they used the word 'Live' was confusing for the average person.
Olsson
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden931 Posts
April 23 2011 10:52 GMT
#1350
1. The results have been spoiled unfortunately. I think you know it yourself but tighter security. Personally I think that live games are more interesting to watch than a commented replay.
2. Co-casters not alone casters!
3. Get day9!!
Naniwa <3
gulden
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany205 Posts
April 23 2011 10:59 GMT
#1351
I'd like to see the OP getting updated with the changes/improvements NASL made so far!
BasilPesto
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 11:13:53
April 23 2011 11:12 GMT
#1352
Khaldor kinda suggested more Khaldor.

On April 23 2011 16:29 Butterz wrote:
I dont like Gretorp as a caster. Period . Personal opinion.


Right... let's have personal biases skew our personal opinions (as opposed to collective opinions I suppose).
"I before E...*sunglasses*... except after C." - Jim Carrey
TALegion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1187 Posts
April 23 2011 11:13 GMT
#1353
On April 23 2011 16:29 Butterz wrote:
I dont like Gretorp as a caster. Period . Personal opinion.

Odd. I was gonna suggest, "Higher penalty for the retards who just make fun of Gretorp the entire time."
A person willing to die for a cause is a hero. A person willing to kill for a cause is a madman
CursedRich
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom737 Posts
April 23 2011 11:17 GMT
#1354
On April 23 2011 19:52 Olsson wrote:
1. The results have been spoiled unfortunately. I think you know it yourself but tighter security. Personally I think that live games are more interesting to watch than a commented replay.
2. Co-casters not alone casters!
3. Get day9!!


Wrong league, did you mean to post in the IPL?
Chill Winston......
Rannasha
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Netherlands2398 Posts
April 23 2011 12:04 GMT
#1355
The schedule page only shows the airtime for the US broadcast. It would be great if you added the time (in GMT or CET) for the European restream. I watched my first NASL stream yesterday and I had to do some digging to find the correct time for the EU restream (currently it's mentioned at About NASL -> FAQ -> How Can I Watch?).
Such flammable little insects!
GrazerRinge
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
999 Posts
April 23 2011 12:46 GMT
#1356
i recommend to watch IPL and screddit invitational tournament.
"Successful people don't talk much. They listen and take action."
schlarp
Profile Joined February 2011
7 Posts
April 23 2011 13:04 GMT
#1357
Hi, i'm not a hardcore starcraft fan and i thought maybe i could tell you why i personally decided not to watch NASL anymore. Kinda like a spokesperson for the masses / casuals who don't have the time/motivation to follow the scene closely.

- Audio: so bad and overcompressed, very annoying mouse clicking / twisting sounds, bad sound mix.

- Visuals: I think the caster's stage doesn't look very good, its like watching black and white television from russia. Colors ingame dont look juicy, general graphics problems.

- Casters: Don't flame me for this please. I don't have time to follow the starcraft scene very closely and i don't know who they are. The just seem like college guys deciding that theyre are now casters without anyone asking (e.g. instead growing a fanbase organically via youtube/etc.). I think known, good casters are very important for people like me.

- Lag issues and other small stuff.

- Boring fillers between games. Don't show me stuff i could watch on youtube on my own.

Not that important but the first upset i had ever had with NASL was with the ridiculously overhyped "big announcement" and the idra showmatch before. I watched it live and waited for it and all i got was a 3 minute trailer and the show is over ?

Grease
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States138 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 15:00:47
April 23 2011 14:26 GMT
#1358
Honestly i like the league schedule the way they have it set up like an actual sports season. Where these top tier players have the chance to be able to lose and still have a chance for the grand final makes later games very interesting and have a VERY GOOD storyline and new rivalries built. The problem is the production.. The hype i feel was way too much maybe because of the player line up that incontrol had in his head at the time and honestly who wouldn't hype something that has all these players in it? You can't beat having Catz,Incontrol,Idra,MC,WhiteRa,Sheth,Kiwikaki,TT1,July,Squirtle,Naniwa,Ret,Tyler, and the list goes on. The sound could be better. As chill stated in a previous post. the sound has its bad days and good days. The video production i feel could be worked on to give a good quality not only for premium users, but also the free users. IGN for the cheap production they claim they put into their video production it looks amazing and has that feel or a real E-sport televised cast.. Im sure as the next two seasons come the quality will become great, but as of now its ok. Incontrol and Gretorp give good cast and need to work on the chemistry between them but they keep it lively and relaxing. Incontrol does go off the path sometimes but thats who he is and its entertaining to see what he says. Nasl has a good competitor now (IGN) and will really have to crank it up to catch up/keep up with them.

Also for NASL doing a live production and having 48 hours to edit the video quality is great for the time they have to make everything run smoothly compared to IGNs league who has what a week of editing. I think overall NASL will be the premier league in the USA after they clear up all the hiccups. GSL had its flaws and now has gotten their stuff together. NASL will do the same and the criticism they are receiving will only make the team of NASL strive for perfection when it comes to giving the Starcraft2 community top quality games and production. And remember we still havent even gotten half way through the season and the boxer/sen games were AMAZING. maybe best series of the season so far!
SHIT HAPPENS
latan
Profile Joined July 2010
740 Posts
April 23 2011 14:33 GMT
#1359
I'd like to insist, given that you've revealed that it's only a small crew doing all the NASL, that you give up on producing all the broadcast of games, you could cede that privilege to some other (like you know.. youtube superstars) casters maybe even for a fee so you can still make something out of it. and focus on getting together a better tournament.

A daily 3+ hour show is kinda tiring and one loses interest. what would be cooler would be if the games were cast live-ish at different hours different days, and your site acted as an aggregator of all the VODs, results and highlights, and if you still insist on it you could produce a weekly show of analysis, commenting weekly highlights, showing of the best micro of the week and stuff like that, commenting on future scenarios for the league, interviews and whatnot. you could put most of you content producing energy on this weekly show and deliver a top notch product. and the rest of your time would go to the logistics of the event. coordinating players, casters, time schedules, etc.
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-23 14:45:07
April 23 2011 14:43 GMT
#1360
On April 23 2011 21:46 GrazerRinge wrote:
i recommend to watch IPL and screddit invitational tournament.

The player lineup isn't good enough to warrant switching from the NASL, imo. The IPL needs EU/KR players and a bigger prize pool to achieve legitimacy as a big tournament.


NASL could be absolute shit as a production and I'd still watch it because of the insane player lineup and amount of quality games. :D Thankfully, it's not shit. It's not perfect either, though.

Honestly, my biggest problem at the moment is the weak-sounding audio. I'm a complete layman so I don't know the technical reasons behind this (or whether the problem lies with the equipment, the recording or the encoding), but listening to the GSL or IPL casters gives a much clearer, crisper audio. Get the NASL audio on that level, please.
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