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On April 22 2011 05:49 artanis2 wrote:
I don't think the sound mixing is necessarily an error. The way it is now, you can mute the casters on the right channel and just watch the games with no commentary...
Since I haven't paid for the HD stream, I can't comment on the 1080p's framerate, but Executor1 have you confirmed that your pc can actually play the 1080p stream at full speed?
LOL of course i have, the framerate is 100% on their end. I run 2 SLI GTX 275 8 gigs of ddr3 1600 ram, quad core 2.83 ghz overclocked to over 3 ghz. 120 gig SSD for my main programs and and games and of course operating system. 2 TB HD +1.5 TB external for storage.
I also have a core i7 laptop with a better cpu but worse graphics (GTX 330 gt) and 6 gigs of ram.
Both suffer fromm the same problems and it defenetly has nothing to do with my computer my internet is also 30 MBPS (with turbo boost so it does bursts where it doubles the bandwidth for a minute at a time every few minutes) wich is more than enough to stream 1080p, i can download at around 4-5 megabytes per second easily, and tons of people notice the framerate. Even if you ware viewing on 480p the framerate issues are the same on all qualities. It has to do with the way they encoded the video or its a problem with justin tv. If you havent noticed it its because your eyes arent trained to notice low flame rates it has been confirmed by many videophiles that it is a problem on their end and it is effected on all levels. Honestly i would prefer to watch with proper framerates at 480p then low framerates at 1080, so i tried all the different qualities, unfortunately its a problem with their encoding or something with JTV =(
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Canada11404 Posts
Honestly out of all the possible things one could fix with NASL- I'd just fix the audio. Last night's games were entertaining and I'd say the commentating is improving and will continue to do so. But the audio was distracting. I don't know how to describe it, except that it sounds really metallic/ distorted. Kinda like when skype is messing up. I can watch it because the games are interesting, but it's very irritating to hear. You clean up the audio and everything else will seem much more polished in comparison.
(Similar to a home video movie- low budget audio pick-up and the whole thing seems low budget. Cut out the sound, throw on a couple soundtracks and it has polished feel. Audio makes a HUGE difference to how polished a production feels.)
I do like the inclusion of the BW soundtracks. Nostalgia!
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Just watched the european restream.
It was edited and the games where running after eatch other, this obviously isnt a problem 
Thourgh the editing it happened a lot that the next game would start and the casters where in the middle of a sentence/conversation.
Maybe it could be possible that the casters start every game in a basic way. I think it would make it easier to edit and give the "flow" of the show a more natural feeling for the spectators.
The show is great btw! :D
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Please add a countdown timer on the front page to get hype and help players know when to look for the next match!
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Maybe a tip for some people - I noticed that the stream defaults to the lowest quality for me (called "iphonelowest" I think) and that it's possible to up the quality to at least 480p without being prompted to get a premium pass. The sound quality at 480p is way better than at "iphonelowest".
So getting back to the topic at hand, it might be a good idea for the NASL admins to set the default quality to 480p, if that's possible and doesn't somehow increase streaming costs 
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The sound seems fine to me tonight from the point of game sound, so good job. I'm also much liking the shirt Gretorp chose. It looks a lot better than the usual T-shirt he wears under the jacket. Very good!
Really nice to hear Khaldor too (I realize they're doing it because Inc is playing, but it's nice to have a bit of rotating of big famous casters too). The main feedback I have with regards to Khaldor is that his camera / mic seems a bit low quality. It's a bit jarring on highest quality to have the very different quality video when they show the studio, and also his sound sounds distinctly a bit worse. I don't know how much they can do about it since it's a guest caster (not sure if their audio/video guys can help him tune his stuff or anything), but I figured I'd mention it since they've done a very good job of improving most other feedback issues.
e: now that I said that, sometimes Khaldor's camera is really high quality, and sometimes it looks really low quality. Don't know what's up with that.
Also, whoever is doing the observing should put on "Busy" status in game so they don't get whispers like they occasionally do (and turn off Toasts if they're not off)
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Tip: stop talking about fixing the NASL. I'm so tired of hearing apologies and criticism. Just show the games and do what you can about technical issues. Nobody is perfect and right now we have this insane echo chamber between TL posters and the NASL staff. Its not that bad, its got some great games. Gretorp and Incontrol are doing a great job casting.
I mean honest to god look at MLG a couple weeks ago. NASL doesn't owe anyone an apology for anything.
Make the content, put it out there and don't give a shit what anyone else thinks about it. The NASL team are dedicated to this game and they will forever be their own harshest critics.
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In fact, let me also say that taking criticism from the Internet seriously is the most insane thing a person can do. You will rip yourself apart trying to make everyone happy and completely miss out on making something that *you* love.
The NASL team should just turn inwards and make the product that they would want to watch. People like Incontrol love this game and shouldn't need some 14 year-olds opinion about how to make a starcraft show that is cool. All the meta-talk about the production is taking away from the actual games(which have been excellent ps)
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Gretorp has improved so much. i think he is already proving to be a great caster! good in-depth expertise and super smooth voice
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I just finished watching SotG for this week, and I am hopping on the bandwagon with Tyler. This format does not make me want to watch all the games leading up to week 10. Even incontrol had mentioned that they might not be the most exciting to watch until the later weeks, when it comes closer to qualifying for the bracket.
My question is, how are you going to get people excited about (for example) the lowest 2 people in the group playing each other in the closing weeks. The results won't really matter if it is impossible for them to qualify for the bracket.
It would not seem as fun to have to watch these games, along with the games that ACTUALLY matter during the same night, and even though they would be games between 2 top players from around the world...it just wouldn't seem as exciting if they weren't really competing for anything (other than not finishing last).
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On April 22 2011 17:30 smore wrote:
I just finished watching SotG for this week, and I am hopping on the bandwagon with Tyler. This format does not make me want to watch all the games leading up to week 10. Even incontrol had mentioned that they might not be the most exciting to watch until the later weeks, when it comes closer to qualifying for the bracket.
My question is, how are you going to get people excited about (for example) the lowest 2 people in the group playing each other in the closing weeks. The results won't really matter if it is impossible for them to qualify for the bracket.
It would not seem as fun to have to watch these games, along with the games that ACTUALLY matter during the same night, and even though they would be games between 2 top players from around the world...it just wouldn't seem as exciting if they weren't really competing for anything (other than not finishing last).
People watch players they are fans of, just like any other sport, regardless of how they are doing in the league.
People watch the big matches because they enjoy the sport and want to see who wins. If one of their favorites players is in the match, even better!
The way they have it structured is more like North American Sports Leagues. They do not expect all people in all demographics to watch every game. They expect each game to pull a unique fan-base related to the players and the broadcast time.
If some players do poorly, and are not fun to watch, they will not gain fans, their viewership numbers will drop as well as their winning percentage and they will probably be replaced in the league by better more popular players.
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On April 22 2011 23:58 TimeSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 17:30 smore wrote:
I just finished watching SotG for this week, and I am hopping on the bandwagon with Tyler. This format does not make me want to watch all the games leading up to week 10. Even incontrol had mentioned that they might not be the most exciting to watch until the later weeks, when it comes closer to qualifying for the bracket.
My question is, how are you going to get people excited about (for example) the lowest 2 people in the group playing each other in the closing weeks. The results won't really matter if it is impossible for them to qualify for the bracket.
It would not seem as fun to have to watch these games, along with the games that ACTUALLY matter during the same night, and even though they would be games between 2 top players from around the world...it just wouldn't seem as exciting if they weren't really competing for anything (other than not finishing last). People watch players they are fans of, just like any other sport, regardless of how they are doing in the league. People watch the big matches because they enjoy the sport and want to see who wins. If one of their favorites players is in the match, even better! The way they have it structured is more like North American Sports Leagues. They do not expect all people in all demographics to watch every game. They expect each game to pull a unique fan-base related to the players and the broadcast time. If some players do poorly, and are not fun to watch, they will not gain fans, their viewership numbers will drop as well as their winning percentage and they will probably be replaced in the league by better more popular players.
Also, NASL can be seen more as a "Get home from work, take a beer, sit down in front of the TV and turn it on" show. There is content almost every day, so you don't have to keep track of it so much, look at the calendar if it's a NASL day or who plays - you just turn on the stream and watch.
The concept is really very much like many sports leagues and sports shows. You keep track of your favourite team and cheer for them, but you still watch all the other stuff because it's still <insert favourite sport>.
I think this format gives E-Sports a little more availability for those that are not (yet) heavily into E-Sports and don't have a favourite player/team (yet).
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Does anyone else remember the first season of GOMtv? They had an enmormass amount of problems as well. It took a while for them to get it sorted as well. At first Tasteless and Artosis were not working well together, the observing was terrible, and the stream would always go down. Give them a few weeks, it will be fixed.
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On April 22 2011 10:46 Dental Floss wrote:
The NASL team should just turn inwards and make the product that they would want to watch. People like Incontrol love this game and shouldn't need some 14 year-olds opinion about how to make a starcraft show that is cool. All the meta-talk about the production is taking away from the actual games(which have been excellent ps)
i agree about this, and i think the problem is no one inside has a true eye for quality. you can tell that IPL is run by guys who know what a polished product looks like and they just got it done. i really dislike the lack of confidence from NASL and how every mistake is getting a half-assed apology or haphazard fix.
hmm everyone complaining about casters being too loud? let's hire a full blown audio engineer and have him apply a compressor to EVERYTHING.
our casters use incorrect words/grammar? incontrol starts apologizing and bracing for criticism after every comment he makes, gretorp starts second guessing himself using big words even when correctly used.
a lot of people notice lack of music? intermittently add in-game music on repeat, poorly mixed.
seems like they just need a sense of directions and follow the mantra "measure twice, cut once."
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On April 22 2011 04:43 Chill wrote:
I think you misinterprited my moron comment. The people who are making ridiculous suggestions they are painting as helpful - like firing the entire staff and hiring professionals - are morons. The people who believed the hype and dropped $25 are just optimists - I would never say or even imply they are morons.
There's nothing wrong with being optimistic and believing and hoping, You just have to expect to get burned a few times and accept responsibility for it. That's what happened here.
If the NASL were going for a grass roots, community based, non commercial model then I think your view is reasonable.
But that isn't the model. The NASL are trying to establish a large scale, commercial esports brand. Big players. Big prize money, and looking to carve out a big share of the market and compete with the likes of GOM.
That is is how they marketed themselves. They did not launch themselves with a philosophy that it was going to be a small production, with an amateur team, and there were likely to be lots of teething problems. Or that they were looking for the community to donate, or provide support.
They launched hyping as a massive, professional, esports league. And it has to be said, there are problems, and they are falling short of what they were hyping it to be.
The NASL is a business, not a grass roots organization. They are promoting a product, they have customers, and they need to please those customers. If you are a business and a significant proportion of your customer base is not happy, or does not feel they are getting the product that was advertised, then thats a problem for that business. I disagree with the view that its a problem with customer, and they are to blame for essentially believing in advertising. There is no business in the world that can get away with that sort of customer service philosophy. Businesses left the "let the buyer beware" philosophy in the dust decades ago. Particularly businesses who rely on a returning customer base.
Business philosophy aside, there is no reason to be pessimistic. The problems facing the NASL are not insurmountable at all. The glitches will get ironed out in time. And the production issues are fixable, there are many examples of other leagues being able to put out leagues with great production values. NASL simply need to up their game, preferably this season.
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For Season 2, NASL needs to do fix their schedule to eliminate the numerous walkovers. Four walkovers in seven days is ridiculous. Maybe the matches need to be played a week or two in advance to ensure plenty of time to work around schedules.
And if there is a walkover, don't hype up that match in the pre-game. Either rerecord that segment or don't record the pre-game until after all the matches are played/walkovered. It's just looks bad when Gretorp hypes up the match as the best one of the day.
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Since the NASL is having tons of trouble with editing, I'd hire an additional editor. I also think it would be an insanely good idea to use octoshape until justin.tv gets their shit together. I've been using octoshape based streams for a long time and though I had some minor problems, the streams were mostly very reliable and stable, the viewing experience was always much better than what the NASL is currently providing using JTV.
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Are you sure it's j.tv's fault? IPL also uses j.tv and seems to work flawlessly.
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I can say, today the sound quality is a lot better, except for Khaldor, but that is probably because he's on skype. I still recommend hiring a sound expert to fix it in case there are more often people on skype. You'd be suprised how much a sound technician can do with a mixing board.
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I'm getting highlight link emails because I follow NASL, but when I click on them I can't watch them cuz I didn't pay to subscribe. I guess I'll have to unfollow them because I really don't like getting emails of VODs I can't watch.
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EPT
