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Calgary26004 Posts
On April 22 2011 03:32 br0fivE wrote:Isn't it actually?
No. Asking a "bold" rhetorical question here makes no sense. It is 100% not their responsibility.
I know I expect a solid bang for the buck.
Okay. You shouldn't have bought it before the product was released then. You can expect whatever you want, and feel however you want to feel. At the end of the day it is you who set the bar for disappointment and it's not their responsibility.
Maybe you can spread some of the blame to the NASL because of how they hyped this league, but I feel like that's standard advertising and promotion techniques. When I read that a knife is going to change my life, I don't feel disappointed when my life is largely the same.
I wouldnt buy a 20 piece chicken bucket to only get 15 pieces.
I wouldnt buy a car if the dealership said it "might" work
Great, because neither of these analogies describe the current situation! They advertised VODs and 1080p, both of which you get by paying the fee!
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I don't understand the sound issues? I mean, I'm listening on crappy laptop speakers so I probably can't tell the difference anyway, but honestly, its sounds really normal to me. Not good enough or bad enough to be worthy of mention.
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On April 22 2011 04:05 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
I don't understand the sound issues? I mean, I'm listening on crappy laptop speakers so I probably can't tell the difference anyway, but honestly, its sounds really normal to me. Not good enough or bad enough to be worthy of mention.
Maybe it's just the 480p stream, which i have to watch because _there is no way to pay without credit card ffs_. I'd love to support the league and get access to the VODs, but in germany almost noone has a credit card :-(
The 480p sound quality is really, really bad.
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On April 22 2011 04:05 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 03:32 br0fivE wrote:It's not their responsibility to meet your imagined expectations. Isn't it actually? No. Asking a "bold" rhetorical question here makes no sense. It is 100% not their responsibility. Okay. You shouldn't have bought it before the product was released then. You can expect whatever you want, and feel however you want to feel. At the end of the day it is you who set the bar for disappointment and it's not their responsibility. Show nested quote +I wouldnt buy a 20 piece chicken bucket to only get 15 pieces.
I wouldnt buy a car if the dealership said it "might" work Great, because neither of these analogies describe the current situation! They advertised VODs and 1080p, both of which you get by paying the fee!
Sure they did advertise 1080p, i guess assuming is bad, but when i hear 1080p 3mb stream or w/e they said i assume its going to be smooth and not run at 15 fps and give me a headache, that is just unnacceptable. I also assume the sound quality is going to be half decent with a 3mb stream.
When they talk about how excellent the quality was multiple times, i assume that includes sound and that they are not just talking about Image quality when they say 1080p id Assume the frames per second would be up to par as well.
Obviously like i said assuming all these things is wrong ,but honestly these are things i shouldnt even have to be worrying about after spending 25 dollars to watch a supposed high quality stream =/
These things should be standard and obviously you agree chill that 25 dollars for the stream is not worth it, your point is that people should have actually waited to see the product before they buy it and i totally agree with you. Incontrol admitted he was wrong in hyping it up so much, and i think thats what caused alot of people to go ahead and buy it , it sounded like the greatest thing ever the way he hyped it up. You guys didnt have to do that at all with the TSL it gets more viewers and the quality is 100x better, it was just a bad decision on his part overall and it pissed off alot of people.
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Calgary26004 Posts
On April 22 2011 04:05 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
I don't understand the sound issues? I mean, I'm listening on crappy laptop speakers so I probably can't tell the difference anyway, but honestly, its sounds really normal to me. Not good enough or bad enough to be worthy of mention.
To me:
- It sounds like they're talking into a far-away desk mic while sitting in an echoing tunnel.
- The sounds are rarely in stereo. Casters start left and then move right while the game sound starts loud and right and then switches to soft and left. Music also moves around seemingly randomly.
- Sounds just cut in and out for no reason. The background is silent and then the Terran background music suddenly cuts in at 80% caster volume on only one speaker.
Those are the three issues I have yesterday with the sound.
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On April 22 2011 04:10 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 04:05 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
I don't understand the sound issues? I mean, I'm listening on crappy laptop speakers so I probably can't tell the difference anyway, but honestly, its sounds really normal to me. Not good enough or bad enough to be worthy of mention. Maybe it's just the 480p stream, which i have to watch because _there is no way to pay without credit card ffs_. I'd love to support the league and get access to the VODs, but in germany almost noone has a credit card :-( The 480p sound quality is really, really bad.
Its not different in 1080p the sound quality is still atroicious, and the 1080p stream runs at a measly 15 frames per second , same with the VODS. Id love to suggest people to support the NASL but , buyer beware for this product at the moment, hopefully things will change soon.
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On April 22 2011 04:13 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 04:05 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
I don't understand the sound issues? I mean, I'm listening on crappy laptop speakers so I probably can't tell the difference anyway, but honestly, its sounds really normal to me. Not good enough or bad enough to be worthy of mention. To me: - It sounds like they're talking into a far-away desk mic while sitting in an echoing tunnel. - The sounds are rarely in stereo. Casters start left and then move right while the game sound starts loud and right and then switches to soft and left. Music also moves around seemingly randomly. - Sounds just cut in and out for no reason. The background is silent and then the Terran background music suddenly cuts in at 80% caster volume on only one speaker. Those are the three issues I have yesterday with the sound.
The sound was very tin like, the marine fire didnt sound any thing like it should it sounded really wierd actually that stood out to me the most , it was especially bad during the first 2 matches i had to mute it, when i brought it back half an hour later , for a later match it seemed slightly better but not by much.
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Calgary26004 Posts
On April 22 2011 04:13 Executor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 04:05 Chill wrote:On April 22 2011 03:32 br0fivE wrote:It's not their responsibility to meet your imagined expectations. Isn't it actually? No. Asking a "bold" rhetorical question here makes no sense. It is 100% not their responsibility. I know I expect a solid bang for the buck. Okay. You shouldn't have bought it before the product was released then. You can expect whatever you want, and feel however you want to feel. At the end of the day it is you who set the bar for disappointment and it's not their responsibility. I wouldnt buy a 20 piece chicken bucket to only get 15 pieces.
I wouldnt buy a car if the dealership said it "might" work Great, because neither of these analogies describe the current situation! They advertised VODs and 1080p, both of which you get by paying the fee! Obviously like i said assuming all these things is wrong ,but honestly these are things i shouldnt even have to be worrying about after spending 25 dollars to watch a supposed high quality stream =/ These things should be standard and obviously you agree chill that 25 dollars for the stream is not worth it, your point is that people should have actually waited to see the product before they buy it and i totally agree with you.
That's exactly my point. We've seen this happen a billion times in the Starcraft 1 community: Some big wallet league comes in to "save Esports" with their money, hype the fuck out of it, and then it's worse than a league someone with 50 posts is running out of his mother's attic.
The NASL is not worth any money in my eyes. Maybe it will get there quickly - I'm not sure - but I haven't paid for it yet, whereas I've paid for everything possible for GOM.
That's why I don't buy the hype anymore, ever. I've seen Esports companies have a record of 0-923048329048340. I'm sorry for the people new to the Starcraft community had to relearn this lesson, but now you know: Never buy something Starcraft-related based on words alone.
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To me:
- It sounds like they're talking into a far-away desk mic while sitting in an echoing tunnel.
- The sounds are rarely in stereo. Casters start left and then move right while the game sound starts loud and right and then switches to soft and left. Music also moves around seemingly randomly.
- Sounds just cut in and out for no reason. The background is silent and then the Terran background music suddenly cuts in at 80% caster volume on only one speaker.
Those are the three issues I have yesterday with the sound.
I am very curious as to what editing software they are using because well some of these issues need to be dealt with in pre-production there are many that can be fixed post-production. As Tyler noted on SotG, sound is not something you really pay alot of attention to unless it is bad and then it can ruin the entire experience.
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On April 22 2011 04:18 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +To me:
- It sounds like they're talking into a far-away desk mic while sitting in an echoing tunnel.
- The sounds are rarely in stereo. Casters start left and then move right while the game sound starts loud and right and then switches to soft and left. Music also moves around seemingly randomly.
- Sounds just cut in and out for no reason. The background is silent and then the Terran background music suddenly cuts in at 80% caster volume on only one speaker.
Those are the three issues I have yesterday with the sound. I am very curious as to what editing software they are using because well some of these issues need to be dealt with in pre-production there are many that can be fixed post-production.
obviouusly the way they encode the videos and distribute allocation of sound and video is just half assed, they even pretty much said they dont have any people working there that are particularily experienced in the broadcasting field, so clearly they dont know what they are doing, at least yet.
When the TSL is casting they are just doing it from their home computers clearly they dont have as expensive of a set up but it sounds 10x better it must be mostly in post production.
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Great games last night. Morrow v TLO, Sheth v Rainbow delivered! I was rooting for Artosis too + Show Spoiler +and despite the 0-2 I think he made a good showing.
One thing that might help is a little recap of the previous day's games, instead of staring at incontrol and gretorp for 15? minutes before the matches start. Just some highlights, showing key moments or awesome micro while going over the results. After missing a day here or there, it'd be a great reason to tune in. Like the LR threads and their Recommended Games, it would give the time-starved SC2 viewer some tips on which VODs to watch first. For folks still on the fence about buying a pass, it could push them over, "OMG I have to watch that game"
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Am I the only one who was able to watch smoothly at 1080p last night?
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On April 22 2011 04:17 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 04:13 Executor1 wrote:On April 22 2011 04:05 Chill wrote:On April 22 2011 03:32 br0fivE wrote:It's not their responsibility to meet your imagined expectations. Isn't it actually? No. Asking a "bold" rhetorical question here makes no sense. It is 100% not their responsibility. I know I expect a solid bang for the buck. Okay. You shouldn't have bought it before the product was released then. You can expect whatever you want, and feel however you want to feel. At the end of the day it is you who set the bar for disappointment and it's not their responsibility. I wouldnt buy a 20 piece chicken bucket to only get 15 pieces.
I wouldnt buy a car if the dealership said it "might" work Great, because neither of these analogies describe the current situation! They advertised VODs and 1080p, both of which you get by paying the fee! Obviously like i said assuming all these things is wrong ,but honestly these are things i shouldnt even have to be worrying about after spending 25 dollars to watch a supposed high quality stream =/ These things should be standard and obviously you agree chill that 25 dollars for the stream is not worth it, your point is that people should have actually waited to see the product before they buy it and i totally agree with you. That's exactly my point. We've seen this happen a billion times in the Starcraft 1 community: Some big wallet league comes in to "save Esports" with their money, hype the fuck out of it, and then it's worse than a league someone with 50 posts is running out of his mother's attic. The NASL is not worth any money in my eyes. Maybe it will get there quickly - I'm not sure - but I haven't paid for it yet, whereas I've paid for everything possible for GOM. That's why I don't buy the hype anymore, ever. I've seen Esports companies have a record of 0-923048329048340. I'm sorry for the people new to the Starcraft community had to relearn this lesson, but now you know: Never buy something Starcraft-related based on words alone.
Thank you Chill.
Don't believe the hype, don't spend your hard earned money just because some guy says it's good for eSports and hasn't backed it up yet. Think for yourself.
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The NASL is not worth any money in my eyes. Maybe it will get there quickly - I'm not sure - but I haven't paid for it yet, whereas I've paid for everything possible for GOM.
That's why I don't buy the hype anymore, ever. I've seen Esports companies have a record of 0-923048329048340. I'm sorry for the people new to the Starcraft community had to relearn this lesson, but now you know: Never buy something Starcraft-related based on words alone.
Well in a way GSL allowed people to fall into that trap since it has been great from the start and constantly improving. There is basically not a single criticism I can give of the first two days of Code S so far this season, they have been fan-fucking-tastic. Since GSL was many peoples first experience with paying money for premium access to a Starcraft League (one offs like MLG or Dreamhack are not really comparable here in volume of content) including my own, people falsely believed another league offering a comparable price point would offer comparable quality based on what they saw with GSL and were told by Incontrol.
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On April 22 2011 04:17 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 04:13 Executor1 wrote:On April 22 2011 04:05 Chill wrote:On April 22 2011 03:32 br0fivE wrote:It's not their responsibility to meet your imagined expectations. Isn't it actually? No. Asking a "bold" rhetorical question here makes no sense. It is 100% not their responsibility. I know I expect a solid bang for the buck. Okay. You shouldn't have bought it before the product was released then. You can expect whatever you want, and feel however you want to feel. At the end of the day it is you who set the bar for disappointment and it's not their responsibility. I wouldnt buy a 20 piece chicken bucket to only get 15 pieces.
I wouldnt buy a car if the dealership said it "might" work Great, because neither of these analogies describe the current situation! They advertised VODs and 1080p, both of which you get by paying the fee! Obviously like i said assuming all these things is wrong ,but honestly these are things i shouldnt even have to be worrying about after spending 25 dollars to watch a supposed high quality stream =/ These things should be standard and obviously you agree chill that 25 dollars for the stream is not worth it, your point is that people should have actually waited to see the product before they buy it and i totally agree with you. That's exactly my point. We've seen this happen a billion times in the Starcraft 1 community: Some big wallet league comes in to "save Esports" with their money, hype the fuck out of it, and then it's worse than a league someone with 50 posts is running out of his mother's attic. The NASL is not worth any money in my eyes. Maybe it will get there quickly - I'm not sure - but I haven't paid for it yet, whereas I've paid for everything possible for GOM. That's why I don't buy the hype anymore, ever. I've seen Esports companies have a record of 0-923048329048340. I'm sorry for the people new to the Starcraft community had to relearn this lesson, but now you know: Never buy something Starcraft-related based on words alone.
Yea i had regained some faith after the TSL and obviously the extremely high quality of the GSL wich i have payed for every season since season 2. Obviously both sides have tons of experience and know what they are doing though I wasnt expecting perfection but i wasnt expecting problems that i shouldnt even have to worry about like sound quality and frames per second, along with the casters being very sub par so far. Obviously ive learned my lesson and i hope other can learn from my mistakes.
Honestly im reallly looking forward to the IPL its compeletely free vods and all, they seem to have experience and know what they are doing and they have the money to back it up(IMO it feels like NASL put everything into the prize pool). I could see this league doing very well and it has most defenetly learned from the NASL's mistakes although i doubt most of these mistakes would have been an issue for IPL anyways, i dont want to overhype it though  but it is free so its not like anybody has anything to lose but their time. Player wise its okay production wise we will have to wait and see but im expecting it to be more in line with the TSL wich you guys have done such an awesome job with, defenetly something that far exceeded my expectations.
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On April 22 2011 04:23 Fries wrote:
Am I the only one who was able to watch smoothly at 1080p last night?
If by smooth you mean no lag, then no unless your internet is poor then anyone watching 1080p should have been fine, after the first few minutes of hiccups.
In terms of video quality though, its the same for everyone , as in not fine at all, maybe your eyes arent trained to notice this but the stream is running at about 15 frames per second instead of the usualy 24 fps, wich is totally unnacceptable, the 15 fps is on their end and not on the users so anyone watching is going to be seeing it at aroudn that frame rate. It almost feels like less than 15 fps i think im being generous
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I watch in 480p and there is no sound issue anymore. Last night I could hear both casters and the game just fine. They output game sound on the left channel and casters voice on the right channel. If you can't hear them maybe you don't have stereo sound output?
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2011 04:05 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 03:32 br0fivE wrote:It's not their responsibility to meet your imagined expectations. Isn't it actually? No. Asking a "bold" rhetorical question here makes no sense. It is 100% not their responsibility. Okay. You shouldn't have bought it before the product was released then. You can expect whatever you want, and feel however you want to feel. At the end of the day it is you who set the bar for disappointment and it's not their responsibility. Maybe you can spread some of the blame to the NASL because of how they hyped this league, but I feel like that's standard advertising and promotion techniques. When I read that a knife is going to change my life, I don't feel disappointed when my life is largely the same. Show nested quote +I wouldnt buy a 20 piece chicken bucket to only get 15 pieces.
I wouldnt buy a car if the dealership said it "might" work Great, because neither of these analogies describe the current situation! They advertised VODs and 1080p, both of which you get by paying the fee!
Chill, i don't get why you insist that we're all morons for buying something like this before we saw it? The league was hyped and hyped by people we TRUST from this very community. There are several leagues currently running who've done the job very right, and it was against those that we judged the potential of NASL. Is it that ridiculous for us to assume that they would follow the patterns of those who did it correctly?
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On April 22 2011 04:34 NoahNickels wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2011 04:05 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 03:32 br0fivE wrote:It's not their responsibility to meet your imagined expectations. Isn't it actually? No. Asking a "bold" rhetorical question here makes no sense. It is 100% not their responsibility. Okay. You shouldn't have bought it before the product was released then. You can expect whatever you want, and feel however you want to feel. At the end of the day it is you who set the bar for disappointment and it's not their responsibility. Maybe you can spread some of the blame to the NASL because of how they hyped this league, but I feel like that's standard advertising and promotion techniques. When I read that a knife is going to change my life, I don't feel disappointed when my life is largely the same. Show nested quote +I wouldnt buy a 20 piece chicken bucket to only get 15 pieces.
I wouldnt buy a car if the dealership said it "might" work Great, because neither of these analogies describe the current situation! They advertised VODs and 1080p, both of which you get by paying the fee! Chill, i don't get why you insist that we're all morons for buying something like this before we saw it? The league was hyped and hyped by people we TRUST from this very community. There are several leagues currently running who've done the job very right, and it was against those that we judged the potential of NASL. Is it that ridiculous for us to assume that they would follow the patterns of those who did it correctly?
I think Chill has articulated himself quite nicely and sufficiently. Just my two cents.
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EPT
