EPT
keep keeping players honest
6-7 Pool to Top 400 NA - Your Thoughts? - Page 21
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The Iron Duke
United Kingdom41 Posts
keep keeping players honest | ||
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Styze
Canada12 Posts
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Probably its not good enough on the maps pro gamers play, but on ladder maps its really effectiv since i try to stop the fast 6 gas play from the zerg, have the most issues against this hehe. Oh and not having enough probes at the wallin to stop a runby should be punished anyway  . | ||
The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On August 01 2011 20:38 decaf wrote: 6pool is autolose vs my 15hatch :> What? How? When this hits you'll be just starting your spawning pool and will have 13-14 drones. | ||
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leveller
Sweden1840 Posts
On April 11 2011 08:27 KallWest wrote: I think there should be a gentlements agreement between players to not cheese. As the win percentage of the OP shows, 6/7 pools clearly are much harder to defend than to execute, which gives the attacker an unfair advantage in most cases. People say it's part of the game, but I think that is not an honorable opinion. It's like a wild west duel with both shooters waiting to 12 o'clock to shoot. There is nothing to really stop one person to shoot at 11.59, but that would make him a coward and an asshole. I feel similarily about cheesers. Cheese does serve the purpose of making high level tournament players unpredictable and keeping their opponents on their feet, and it is a useful tool for them, but the rest of us, which is 99,999% of Starcraft players, should not cheese out of fairness and respect for our opponent. But cheesing is fun! I play this game to have fun too not just work out my apm muscles. | ||
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
On August 01 2011 21:43 TehTemplar wrote: What? How? When this hits you'll be just starting your spawning pool and will have 13-14 drones. I will have 16 to 17 drones cancelling the extractor and the hatchery and 1drone>1zergling. | ||
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Batch
Sweden692 Posts
On August 02 2011 01:30 decaf wrote: I will have 16 to 17 drones cancelling the extractor and the hatchery and 1drone>1zergling. What kind of drones do you got? :O Here is the stats of mine: Zergling: Health: 35 Ground DPS: 7.2 Speed: 2.9531 Drone: Health: 40 Ground DPS: 3.3 Speed: 2.8125 | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On August 02 2011 01:38 Batch wrote: What kind of drones do you got? :O Here is the stats of mine: Zergling: Health: 35 Ground DPS: 7.2 Speed: 2.9531 Drone: Health: 40 Ground DPS: 3.3 Speed: 2.8125 You can hold it if you drone drill correctly. | ||
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Protoss_Carrier
414 Posts
On August 02 2011 01:30 decaf wrote: I will have 16 to 17 drones cancelling the extractor and the hatchery and 1drone>1zergling. it's probably the rusher's lings PLUS drones. | ||
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Indrium
United States2236 Posts
On August 02 2011 01:41 K3Nyy wrote: You can hold it if you drone drill correctly. Only if your opponent is brain dead. It's certainly possible, but they REALLY have to mess up. Not to mention that the 6 pooler can still win afterwards because they forced a hatch cancel on a hatch first, putting them ahead. | ||
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imareaver3
United States906 Posts
On August 02 2011 02:27 Indrium wrote: Only if your opponent is brain dead. It's certainly possible, but they REALLY have to mess up. Not to mention that the 6 pooler can still win afterwards because they forced a hatch cancel on a hatch first, putting them ahead. Not really, they just have to have considerably worse micro than you. Even if they play really well, if you play better, you'll win. That's my experience with 15 hatching, at least. And I'd hardly call the 6-pooler ahead; he has 5 drones. You really should have more after the 6 pool dies. Forcing a hatch cancel is irrelevant; he won't be ahead on tech/one-base econ because he has 5 drones. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On August 02 2011 02:27 Indrium wrote: Only if your opponent is brain dead. It's certainly possible, but they REALLY have to mess up. Not to mention that the 6 pooler can still win afterwards because they forced a hatch cancel on a hatch first, putting them ahead. Scout early and see the 6/7 pool then 14 pool instead of the planned 15 hatch. One good drone drill and he loses. Went against a random player and he tried to 7 pool me with 2 drones coming along to try and build spine crawlers and he still lost. | ||
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
On August 03 2011 03:43 TheRabidDeer wrote: Scout early and see the 6/7 pool then 14 pool instead of the planned 15 hatch. One good drone drill and he loses. Went against a random player and he tried to 7 pool me with 2 drones coming along to try and build spine crawlers and he still lost. no good player will let you mineral walk surround him, and it's pretty easy to micro around it and continuously pick off drones without ever risking a surround. Pretty much anything before a 12 pool is just about auto-win vs. 15 hatch, which is why, unless you're playing on a gigantic map or know your opponent is also going hatch-first, you should scout early enough to decide whether to 14pool or 15hatch. If you want to blindly 15hatch for whatever practice reasons on ladder, be prepared to just leave the game if you see lings in the opening 3 minutes. On August 01 2011 20:31 Styze wrote: I used to lose a lot of games to 6pool as protoss but i have to say that at one point when i was playing i saw my friend hold off a 6pool where he just continues to wall in when some front building dies or gets probes to block behind the destroyed building. I use this strategy all the time i even held off a 6pool on shattered temple scouting him last when his lings were already leaving his base. I also realized that you can easily FFE and still be safe against a 6pool even on maps like terminus which have a bigger choke to block. I do like to 6pool against protoss with some regularity, but I'd never 6pool on that map because it has a huge rush distance, and you can't know all the spawning positions by the time your lings are out (unlike all the new ladder maps). If you scout early enough to figure out the other spawning positions, you likely won't be able to reinforce past your initial 6 lings. That said, both of your perceived responses to 6pool reinforce why a 6pool works so well against protoss. Both of them will end in losses against a good 6pooler. I say good because he'll double extractor trick to turn his 6 ling rush into a 14 ling rush by 4 minutes, and if you're "continuously walling" your zealot will be forced behind your gateway, and your wall will fall faster and faster, while becoming more and more expensive. for you. I've never lost to a protoss reacting this way unless he did a gateway cancel into forge-gateway-cannon wall, which has only happened once. The best response is also far easier to execute. You only need to pull some of your probes (8-10 at first) to delay and threaten engagement with. You should NOT wall, but instead allow the lings in. They can't openly engage your probes because they'll suffer too many losses just before the chrono'd zealot comes out, and they can't kill the pylon because you are dancing around it with your probes. After your initial zealot comes out, if he's still sending more lings, just chrono another zealot and make sure to keep it with the probes you use. Once you have a 2nd zealot you can just kill all his lings, drop your core, and proceed to be very far ahead. This takes far less effort than it sounds. If for any reason you have to pull all your probes to engage the zerglings, you're doing something very wrong and you've basically lost the game at this point. If you forge FE, you need to accept that both your forge, pylon, and whatever you try to build to complete a wall (if you chose that decision) are GOING to die. Even if you completed this wall with (for example) double gateway, you can still win the game when this wall fails. Accept it, and as the forge completes (and it should be almost dead when it does) warp a cannon in your mineral line. As soon as you see a 6pool coming and you went forge FE, warp a pylon into your mineral line, then make a cannon as the forge completes. You'll lose everything out of range of that cannon, but you will also lose almost no probes and have triple your opponent's economy, while he is only ahead of you by pool tech (and no queen). | ||
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
On August 01 2011 19:35 The Iron Duke wrote: Protoss go for greedy play to much even at the highest level and just asumme/hope they wont get 6 pooled. which is very bad play by them so i am glad you did this as having a whole like that in your build and not knowing how to stop a 6 pool is very bad keep keeping players honest There's nothing call greedy when the 6 pools hit you at the 12 or 13 supply. I mean the damn gates is not even finish up wtf do you expect Protoss to do? It's not like Terran can wall off completely while toss has to leave a choke. Stop your ignorant assumption please. | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
And in any matchup, if you get caught in a worker drill, you might lose. It's called choosing a good spot to engage, like the mineral line/somewhere workers won't get a good surround. Also, how are you losing w/ FFE against a fast pool? | ||
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
731 masters EU EU rank 86 139-67 Only 6-7 pool variants. Against T he skillfully pull drones in a tempo that often blocks the walloff while not revealing all in. | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On August 05 2011 08:27 EmilA wrote: http://sc2ranks.com/eu/1455748/sTaGaming 731 masters EU EU rank 86 139-67 Only 6-7 pool variants. Against T he skillfully pull drones in a tempo that often blocks the walloff while not revealing all in. Wondered when somebody was going to mention him. That's one of my real life friends, some WC3 players among you might know him as Habit. I think he literally spends most of his days getting home from work then 6pooling for a lot of hours. He used to play Minecraft a lot, but I don't think he does anymore, so yay 6pooling. His pooling strategies are pretty hard to defend on some maps, but they depend a lot on scout luck, too. It's pretty funny, too, because you'd think that all the good players would start to catch up on him, but most of them don't seem to (maybe simply forget the name?). I still get pretty sad when he brags about it to me or in facebook, though, because I know him, and he could be a very very good player (using standard play) right now, if he had spent all that time practicing regularly instead of 6pooling. Now he probably can't win a BO3 to save his life, though. | ||
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
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