• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:15
CEST 09:15
KST 16:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Rollback Netcode in Brood War745.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202621Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78
StarCraft 2
General
ESL Pro Tour for SC2 discontinued [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Ziemie's Starcraft 1 Prequel Campaign Mineral Boosting (2 workers/patch)
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal A [ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12710 users

Why the Blizzard ladder is great - Page 8

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 20 Next All
Ketch
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands7285 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 13:12:44
April 07 2011 13:12 GMT
#141
So, actually Blizzard should show you a page with a graph displaying your MMR rate? That's the only way to see how you're doing exactly right?
QuickStart
Profile Joined October 2010
8 Posts
April 07 2011 13:13 GMT
#142
I have to say I have started play way more now thanks to the new system.

Back in the days I was afraid of playing in bad conditions. E.g. If a was hungry/tired I didn't play because if was afraid it might effect my game play.
Now i don't care anymore and it's a great feeling.

I play in diamond.
ElPeque.fogata
Profile Joined May 2010
Uruguay462 Posts
April 07 2011 13:13 GMT
#143
i agree, but it is a pitty that the human being is so retarded.
GribStream.com - Historical Weather Forecast API - https://gribstream.com/
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
April 07 2011 13:16 GMT
#144
On April 07 2011 22:12 Ketch wrote:
So, actually Blizzard should show you a page with a graph displaying your MMR rate? That's the only way to see how you're doing exactly right?


Yes, would indeed be the best solution.
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
Telenil
Profile Joined September 2010
France484 Posts
April 07 2011 13:25 GMT
#145
On April 07 2011 22:13 QuickStart wrote:
I have to say I have started play way more now thanks to the new system.

Back in the days I was afraid of playing in bad conditions. E.g. If a was hungry/tired I didn't play because if was afraid it might effect my game play.
Now i don't care anymore and it's a great feeling.

I play in diamond.
Exactly the same here.
When I was climbing the ladder, I've never used my ratio as a way to know I was about to be promoted, I watched the "slightly favored" tab or the number of points I gained after each match and looked at my opponent's rank after the game. It is much more reliable than wondering "I'm 24-20, does it mean I'm going up?"
I'm not counting my "wins minus losses" anymore, and that changed my mindset a lot. The only thing I could wonder is whether or not I could be dropped, but since I'm diamond ~15th, this is not a very serious concern.
Mass Recall: Brood War campaigns on SC2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303166
VapouR.
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom14 Posts
April 07 2011 13:29 GMT
#146
Even though losses don't show, you still lose points for them. So i don't see the difference?
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6267 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 13:32:58
April 07 2011 13:32 GMT
#147
On April 07 2011 00:23 [F_]aths wrote:
edit Technical note: With exception for the lowest and the highest league, if you keep playing, your ratio will be close to 50% regardless. If you have much more (or less) than 50%, you did not just play enough for the MMR do adapt. Having >50% in Diamond is no sign of skill. It's just a sign that you did not yet play enough games for the MMR do adapt.

I quote this because I think this is the most important point. Many players hide behind their "good" win/loss ratio when in fact the reality is that they just haven't played enough games. Unless you're the top of Masters everyone should have a roughly 50% win/loss.
esre
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland109 Posts
April 07 2011 13:37 GMT
#148
At first I really disagreed with the not being able to see my win/lose ratio. It felt like I was being punished for being in the lower leagues, I was gold with about 10 games played and a high enough ratio 7-3 I think. Every time I laddered I got that horrible feeling of I must win and as a result I played tons of 2v2's and 3v3's because they were more fun with less responsibility.
Since the new patch I played 1 or 2 games. No stress at all , I felt completely comfortable playing. Now I've been promoted to platinum and i am in the top 8 for that. I've improved lots in 2v2's and 3v3's but I never had the desire to ladder 1v1 because of taking all the responsibility for a loss.

In conclusion I think its a great way for players to build confidence in the lower levels, the more you play the more you will gain confidence in your abilities and if you ever do LAN or do online comps you will be a stronger player.
"Personality should be irrelevant. This is a computer game tournament, not a dating show. -Idra"
ClockToweR
Profile Joined March 2011
United States61 Posts
April 07 2011 13:40 GMT
#149
Overall, I support the change. But i think once you get to diamond, that represents enough competence in order for you to see your losses. I agree that people in diamond can still be terrible, but the top of diamond can be as good as a low masters.
Pendulum.161 "Please ignore the burrowed banelings..."
imp42
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
398 Posts
April 07 2011 13:40 GMT
#150
without reading through the thread (sorry) I wonder what good it is to remove losses if you're supposed to have a 50% ratio anyways.
But ok, fact that masters see it is fair enough I guess.


...and Telenil: you can easily be dropped from diamond even when ranked 15th. No problemo.
50 pts Copper League
Sorkoas
Profile Joined May 2010
549 Posts
April 07 2011 13:42 GMT
#151
I want to see how many games I've lost. I don't care if others can't, but it should at least be visible for myself in my profile. This is just frustrating.
SoulScream
Profile Joined June 2010
Bulgaria44 Posts
April 07 2011 13:44 GMT
#152
I don't like the removal of losses. I have played the game since early beta (oh how I miss the copper league :D). I made my way from copper to high plat/low diamond in the beta with terran and since the release of the game I play zerg witch was really hard to get used to and thus my placement in bronze. But I have to see my win/loss ratio (ofcourse there is sc2ranks for that but it is nicer to have it in the game) It helps you know easier how are you going with your skills. When I had 20-30% win ratio in bronze I was motivated to play more and harder to get better. Although now I have no real time to play as much as I like to the lack of this ratio demotivates me (since I know that with 5 hours playtime a week there is no chance to get to masters so that I can follow my progress) Besides if you're in master league you know already that you have some sort of skills xD
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
April 07 2011 14:07 GMT
#153
On April 07 2011 22:06 sleepingdog wrote:
This is exactly what the poster has pointed out and where he is completely correct. If you spend a lot of time studying replays, working on your play and stuff, then a rising win-% can tell you that you in fact ARE better than your current MMR indicates.
You can keep track of that via match history.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
Amyris
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom77 Posts
April 07 2011 14:12 GMT
#154
Great article, enjoyable read and made some good points.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
April 07 2011 14:13 GMT
#155
On April 07 2011 22:40 ClockToweR wrote:
Overall, I support the change. But i think once you get to diamond, that represents enough competence in order for you to see your losses. I agree that people in diamond can still be terrible, but the top of diamond can be as good as a low masters.
Yes, but the cut had to be made somewhere. The upside is that the master league is at least somewhat exclusive. Out of 50 active players, just one is supposed to play in the master league. Whoever achieved that feat, has something to be proud of.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
ChaoticBlack
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia288 Posts
April 07 2011 14:19 GMT
#156
On April 07 2011 22:25 Telenil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2011 22:13 QuickStart wrote:
I have to say I have started play way more now thanks to the new system.

Back in the days I was afraid of playing in bad conditions. E.g. If a was hungry/tired I didn't play because if was afraid it might effect my game play.
Now i don't care anymore and it's a great feeling.

I play in diamond.
Exactly the same here.
When I was climbing the ladder, I've never used my ratio as a way to know I was about to be promoted, I watched the "slightly favored" tab or the number of points I gained after each match and looked at my opponent's rank after the game. It is much more reliable than wondering "I'm 24-20, does it mean I'm going up?"
I'm not counting my "wins minus losses" anymore, and that changed my mindset a lot. The only thing I could wonder is whether or not I could be dropped, but since I'm diamond ~15th, this is not a very serious concern.


The W/L ratio only says if you are really good or really bad since it should average out to 50%. The exclusion of losses made be check the league of the opponent more and I think thats a more reliable way to see my improvement.
Senjougahara Fascination
pandaburn
Profile Joined November 2010
United States89 Posts
April 07 2011 14:36 GMT
#157
Why the Blizzard ladder is great:

The Blizzard ladder is great because it provides an effortless mechanism for finding and playing a player of approximately your caliber. The fact that you know nothing about this player and likely have not played him many times before, if any, means that you can focus on improving your own game against his race without getting in your own head thinking about what that player's tenancies are.

This anonymous, impersonal matching also allows you to try out new strats, and if you lose, nobody will remember. The elimination of losses helps that, but not in an important way. Unless you're really worried that you will be demoted soon if you continue losing, and that matters to you, you can play ladder without worry, and get good practice, even if none of your friends are available at the time.

The showing of losses is not very relevant to why the ladder is great. As a statistician, I can say with confidence that with such a matchmaking system, W/L has little meaning. A good ratio may indicate that you have improved faster than the average player, as your MMR has not been able to keep up with your improvement, but that is not what people generally assume it means.

Unless you are in the bottom of bronze or the grandmaster league, your W/L says nothing about your absolute skill level. This has been said before, but seems not to have sunk in.

If you are a plat/diamond player and you want to see your number of losses because you want to guage how good you are, then Blizzard has done you a favor. You are no longer getting irrelevant and misleading information.
{ToT}ColmA
Profile Joined November 2007
Japan3260 Posts
April 07 2011 14:41 GMT
#158
the ladder is retarded, or better the mmr, i ve to play vs people who ve played thousands of games and are far better than me and the game says i am favoured and get utterly destroyed, no, this aint fun and lowering the mmr takes ages, leaving games since 30 minutes ago and still get 3,6k master league players...great fun
The only virgins in kpop left are the fans
Imalengrat
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia365 Posts
April 07 2011 14:46 GMT
#159
I agree 100%.
Makes me want to play more not having to worry about W/L ratio.
Although I was told "You shouldn't worry about your win/loss in your opening games, but just about learning", the fact is that I always was thinking about it trying to keep it always above 50% which sometimes made me play less to the fact that "If I lose my next game I will have a NEGATIVE ratio so I won't play"
GJ Blizz, GJ
Mass Motherships Counters Almost everything
ujonecro
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom846 Posts
April 07 2011 14:56 GMT
#160
Now I understand. I had a little loss streak about 6 ladder losses and then I just stopped playing for a month. I played about 10 games in last days and they were 90% ZvZs (my best matchup) to balance it. Or is it stupid?
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 20 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
The QMC Showmatch 1
OSC
08:00
Masters Cup #151: Group A
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2059
GuemChi 540
Shinee 89
Shine 57
yabsab 18
Noble 10
Icarus 7
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm187
League of Legends
JimRising 589
Other Games
summit1g6779
ceh9561
Happy347
Sick180
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick554
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2274
League of Legends
• Lourlo892
• Jankos821
• Stunt355
Other Games
• Shiphtur595
Upcoming Events
OSC
4h 45m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 3h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 16h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Online Event
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.