EPTWhy the Blizzard ladder is great - Page 6
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Mr_Kyo
United States269 Posts
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
Why should I have to keep the record instead of my profile doing it? Fuck you, Blizzard. The ladder has pros and cons. | ||
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bloodorc44
United States31 Posts
On April 07 2011 04:59 IntoTheEmo wrote: Yeah it may not affect anything with regards to indicating skill, but the fact that Blizzard decided on this for us and at such an early stage of the game is scary. Exactly. And the fact that they have removed all other venues of competitive play couples with this to make an even scarier reality. Also, having Win/Loss shown as a choice made by the user would be the best of both worlds, IMO. | ||
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Achaia
United States643 Posts
On April 07 2011 04:43 enigamI wrote: I agree wholeheartedly with OP. My only complaint with the system is the inability to off race conveniently, I really wish you could have a separate MMR for each race... *HEAD EXPLODED!!!!!!* You just blew my mind. I had never really thought of that lol. I thought about one day possibly rolling like Day9 and just having a copy of SC2 for each race but obviously there's significant financial investment in owning 3 copies. Why not have a separate ranking for each race? That's such a good idea. I'm guessing this idea has been tossed about for a while but this if the first time I've seen it for whatever reason. Too bad that Blizzard probably won't allow for this since it means that people like me won't actually go and buy extra copies of the game to have separate MMR for each race lol. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On April 07 2011 00:23 [F_]aths wrote: With Patch 1.3 and the removal of the total games played for leagues below Master, it is not possible to calculate the win ratio. Many users see this as the final proof that the ladder is good for nothing since it no longer has any meaning. Blizzard is just pleasing the noobs to sell more copies. Competitive play is not really promoted since anyone can get milestones or achievements while he still has no more than 12 drones at any given time in the match. But let us look on a casual gamer with little RTS experience. Let’s him call Bob. Bob purchased Starcraft 2 because he likes military science fiction or because he was told that the game is good. Or he stumbled upon a Husky cast as a friend forwarded him the Baneling video and now Bob dreams of beeing a terran general to commandeer some battle cruisers. Bob did play through the campaign on the easiest level and still had trouble with “All In”. He started the online mode and got crushed. He started another game and got crushed again. After practice league and placement matches he finds himself 0-5ed in Bronze. Five or ten games later his MMR adjusted and he fights other guys like him and he eventually gets close to a 50% win ratio, even though he cannot see it unless he digs up his match history. Anyway, he now thinks that he has improved while in fact he has not, he just gets opponents of equal skill. But the important thing here is that he has fun and that he plays. Bob will perhaps never get promoted, but he gets into Top-8 of his division and he tells a friend that this Starcraft thing is very fun and he should buy it, too. Now they can play custom 1v1 with no attack until 8:00 minutes or do a 2v2 with double sixpool. Eventually, some players who got into the game will be interested to get actually better. This is my main point. Sir Taste-A-Lot and Striderdoom once were nubs, too. They nubbed probably for months, if not years, in an environment with no real competetive pressure. Everyone should have the chance to play online against players of equal skill without having to worry to get a poor ladder statistic. In SC1, everyone could create a new account at any time to hide the inglorious past. But this promoted smurfing, and it is not fair to let mid-skilled players bash noobs. To have more players at pro level in the long term, Starcraft should attract the masses. It is not good to sort out the players who cannot stand the pressure before they had a chance to develop love for the game. Imagine a balance discussion between Bob and Jack, both bronzies. May be their views are horriblys wrong, but it is important that they talk about Starcraft. May be a friend overhears a conversation how imbalanced the Dark Templar is and purchases the game just for having a chance to feel great to crush someone with a DT rush. It is also important that they watch some pro leagues because leagues need an audience to get sponsors. An elitist attitude regarding Starcraft will only drive away the masses, not letting the scene develop into mainstream. We need people who play, or we will run out of fresh blood. Blizzard is doing the right thing to ensure new blood for any league. Blizzard is right awarding activity with a good placement in the division. If you want to see your win ratio, you can earn this honor by getting in Master. If you want to see your real skill with no bonus pool adjustment, you can sign up for a tournament and see who you can beat. The Blizzard ladder is constructed to get people play the game and it does its job well. It rewards just playing the game, it keeps people playing because it removes the fear of getting below 50%. More players overall today = more pro-gamers overall tomorrow. edit Technical note: With exception for the lowest and the highest league, if you keep playing, your ratio will be close to 50% regardless. If you have much more (or less) than 50%, you did not just play enough for the MMR do adapt. Having >50% in Diamond is no sign of skill. It's just a sign that you did not yet play enough games for the MMR do adapt. Now let's say you had a bad day, you are a bit tired and afraid of playing 1v1 since you could lose a lot of games today. You could decide to rather not play to keep your 51% win statistic. Okay, a week or two weeks later you feel great but you are afraid that the strategies developed further and you would get crushed. Having not to worry about stats will make it easy to play regardless of your condition. The more players are hitting the search-game-button, the better the system works because it can match you to someone with similar skill very fast. This keeps the interest in actually playing instead of worrying about statistics. atleast give us the OPTION of toggling it on or off. the ones who are scared can choose to not see it but some of us really want to know. | ||
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dmillz
Canada270 Posts
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Ighox
Norway580 Posts
On April 07 2011 04:18 Ghost-z wrote: How the hell can some oh you argue that seeing your win/loss ratio will actually help make you better? I don't care how good/bad you are at Starcraft but 95% of us will never see win/lose ratios outside of 45-55% range. Is it really going to change your personal meta-game when you see your record is 50-45 instead of 50-55? Blizzard ladder is much improved from BW and who gives a shit about wins and loses. It doesn't help me feel better, but if I ladder hard some days it's nice to be able to see that you started on 70-60 and when you finished for the day you had 80-69. Right now it's more like hey how much did you play today, "uh, HOLD ON I JUST NEED TO COUNT MY MATCH HISTORY". It's not that I really want it that much or anything because I couldn't really care less, I just think the decision to remove it completely was awful and I hope they don't continue to "consolify" battle.net in the future. No matter how much you argue that it doesn't really matter, it's pretty hard to figure out a valid reason to not even have it optional, or personal, only visible to you. It's just plain retarded on the same level as WC3 showed map stats, SC2 doesn't but Blizzard clearly collects these stats so how hard would it be to let us see our stats as well, not being able to have custom game names on custom games, having no clue about our true MMR (unless you read excalibur's thread) etc., it's just BNET 2.0 taking one step forward and two steps backwards as usual. Stop limiting our options when there's no need for it. Someone needs to remind the battle.net developers that it isn't a console platform. | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
Anyway, this change pisses me off. I'd be fine if Blizz gave people an option or whatever, but as it is I read it as: "Hey, Blizzard here! We're gunna make some balance changes n stuff. Oh and btw, we don't think you can handle the emotional challenge of losses, so we'll take that away". And that offends me. Blizz can cater to casuals all they want, but when they start assuming everyone but less than 2% of their entire game is casuals that makes me mad. It also makes me mad they assume anyone not in masters is casual.  . Hurts my feelings a bit. I'd be fine with them having an option, but why limit our choices like this and basically flip off every non masters player? I just don't see the advantage of this over an option. In order for blizz to justify this move they have to show a positive impact it has over the option and I don't think they can. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On April 07 2011 04:00 Achaia wrote: It's good that Blizzard removed the choice to have it because Platinum and Diamond also has players which are currently slightly above 50% and are afraid of playing the game since they could fall below 50%. It never will work to convince all players to not judge someone by his win ratio. Even if Blizzard manages to tell everyone that the system will get you close to 50% anyways, people will see >50% as a proof that they are good since they even tricked the system (while in fact they just did not play enough games yet.)I get the feeling that platinum and above would like to still have it there, or at least have an option to show/hide it but for those that this is really targeted towards I would like to see exactly what impact this has had on them. To remove the win ratio, also removes a lot of unnecessary discussions so people can focus on playing instead of talking. | ||
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enzym
Germany1034 Posts
On April 07 2011 16:53 [F_]aths wrote: To remove the win ratio, also removes a lot of unnecessary discussions so people can focus on playing instead of talking. You mean like we are doing now? On April 07 2011 16:53 [F_]aths wrote: It's good that Blizzard removed the choice to have it because Platinum and Diamond also has players which are currently slightly above 50% and are afraid of playing the game since they could fall below 50%. It never will work to convince all players to not judge someone by his win ratio. Even if Blizzard manages to tell everyone that the system will get you close to 50% anyways, people will see >50% as a proof that they are good since they even tricked the system (while in fact they just did not play enough games yet.) You can still judge players by their division, rank and recent losses. Sometimes (all the time) I wish people would just step it up when it comes to using logic. The posts in this thread are horrible, with a few of them making sense. On April 07 2011 04:43 Excalibur_Z wrote: While that is true, your wins at least have a direct impact upon your progress toward unlocking portraits, decals, and achievements. Good point. On April 07 2011 04:43 Excalibur_Z wrote: Also, to the rest of the thread who are still posting about "WL was removed for noobs", I want this earlier point acknowledged: That assumes that the only value in a statistic is it's statistical meaning/significance. Many people would like to see this number purely for reasons of comfort (with the lack of that number, with Blizzard's decision to remove it and their [assumed] reasoning behind it, etc). | ||
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StiX
Netherlands220 Posts
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me_viet
Australia1350 Posts
On April 07 2011 00:52 mustache wrote: if this system is so perfect whats wrong with showing someone a 50/50 win ratio. thats not discouraging.. Lol In most Asian Countries (at least Vietnam), 50% is a big fat FAIL. for me, being raised in an asian culture, seeing 50% is not very encouraging. Tbh, I was secretly happy about the whole hiding losses thing....until they said it was for diamond and below D= | ||
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theBOOCH
United States832 Posts
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Zog
57 Posts
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SovSov
United States755 Posts
wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh blizzard caters to casuals wahhhhh | ||
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IntotheNorth
Denmark116 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
Completely opposed to warcraft 3 where you'd achieve new "levels" much more often, since there were 50 of them. I'm sorry if I annoy people with my constant wc3-parallels, but wc3 was a million times more competitive LADDER-wise (NOT tourney-wise). And somehow it was still a huge success. Even with smurfs ruining much. Currently, if there weren't such awsome sites like sc2-ranks, I don't know how we could even compare ourselves WITH bonus-pool taking into account. | ||
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Belligra
United Kingdom40 Posts
to be honest, i don't see why players shouldn't be able to see their own losses if they could toggle it with an interface option or the like, with no way for opponents ( pre masters) to see them. i for example, am in the situation where after tanking my MMR to basement level in season one, i am currently 22-4 and sitting in bronze twiddling my thumbs grinding through games to get my MMR up, and its a long ass process. by seeing my losses i wouldn't have to make a mental check every time i lose just to think, hmm i'm still on a pretty nice ratio, awesome maybe i can keep this going as my MMR rises and maybe get a promotion. On April 07 2011 06:49 dmillz wrote: Its easy, your W/L is very close to 50% unless you are high masters or very low bronze. Seeing the exact number doesn't change the fact that the MMR forces you to be around 50% W/L until you're in masters. im rank 1 bronze 22-4 my MMR just got owned last season as it was the first time id played an RTS since i was about 11. MMR can be a real pain in the ass. | ||
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ElusoryX
Singapore2047 Posts
If you want to see your real skill with no bonus pool adjustment, you can sign up for a tournament and see who you can beat. this is very true, and you managed to convince me why the ladder is great now. | ||
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drsnuggles
Korea (South)362 Posts
I would suggest that loss-statistics are disabled by default, but that it's possible to toggle them, so if you want to see your losses, you can do so. Also, add functions for off-racing please  | ||
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