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The original article at thisisgame.com: here
Another article covering the same subject: here
Well, I won't bother translating the whole article but here are the main topics:
1) TSL (Team SCV Life) will become the first StarCraft 2 Team to give salary to it's players. The first payday will be on April 10th.
2) This was possible because TSL was the first team to draw major sponsors for the team, mainly hardware manufacturers. They were satisfied with the positive effect the team gave them through advertisement and such, and decided to raise the sponsorship value. According to coach Lee "There was an increase of 60%"
3) There are currently 9 players playing for the TSL as of now. The two highest paid players will be Kim Won Ki AKA TSL.FruitDealer and Seo Ki Soo AKA TSL.Trickster, with 35,000,000 KRW (around 31,000 US$) and 30,000,000 KRW (around 27,000 US$) a year respectively.
I am not sure, but aren't there some foreign teams that give salary to their players too? Anyway, great news to TSL players and e-sports in general. Here's hoping that other teams get more sponsorship and follow TSL's example.
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pretty good news. shows that at least the sponsors don't envision the sc2 korean scene dying anytime soon
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It's kind of amazing that this is news - I thought that most of the sponsored Korean teams had salaries, however meager, at this point. Even some foreign sponsors give their players small salaries.
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wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year
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All top teams pay their players afaik
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Thats excellent news. 31k is a very respectable sum.
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On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year
But considering it's like a 80+ hour a week job... is it really worth it? 
And yea I do believe a lot of the major foreigner teams pay salaries.
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On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year
pretty mediocre when its 80 hours a week though, hopefully it rises in a year or 2
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thats definitely a good development
i really hope we get something like proleague, GSL-Team league proofed already to be fantastic.
The more stable the scene gets, and the less teams / players are dependent on winning the gsl /placing good to get money, the better.
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Nice. 31k for FD is higher than the average salary in South Korea and definitely more than whatever he was getting on the estro b team.
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^^heh its "80" hours a week but its palyng a video game. time flies when ur having fun
imagine being the assistant manager at my restaurant working 70 hours a week on salary
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first sc2 team to have salaried players?
I know for a fact that EG players get paid a salary. as to how much, I'm not sure.
I'm sure complexity sc2 players do as well seeing that they were/are a big competitor in cs 1.6
note, cs 1.6 players on EG make about $80k/yr remember that sc2 has more prize money to made [solo wise]
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This is awesome. It takes away the volatility of making a living from progaming. This will let the players focus on their long-term game rather than winning every single tournament just to survive.
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Australia8532 Posts
This is pretty awesome news.. Heading down the BW path i guess.. Hopefully the other teams will follow suit!
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At first I confused this with the other TSL, TeamLiquid Starcraft League lol.
Interesting to see TSL be the first team to take such an important step towards the SC2 pro-gaming infrastructure becoming more and more like the BW infrastructure. I wonder when large corporations will start to host their own teams, like Hite, CJ, or WeMade.
Incredible Miracle and oGs better step up their game now, especially with TSL macroing up their team.
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I can't believe it took this long to make this happen.
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Hopefully this will make FD/Tester play better and start dominating like in the beta phase again.
And Clide finally fulfill his potential as the best player ever.
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On March 14 2011 14:46 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year pretty mediocre when its 80 hours a week though, hopefully it rises in a year or 2
They also win tourneys though so that money too
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It is a nice step on the right direction, hopefully awareness will increase and the sponsorships with it.
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I've been paying my players a salary since December..... Gotta love media 
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at first when i read it i thought sponsoring tsl gave the sponsors a 60 percent increase in sales but then i guess it is too good to be true. lol
Still good news though! Hope more players get the money they deserve.
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$30k isn't much, but it's better than $0. You can live off $30k, especially if you are in a team house which is basically all your rent and expenses. Especially where GSL is such a focal point, earning enough to make a viable living without winning is difficult. If other SC2 teams really aren't paying salaries, I am actually surprised at how many people have joined the SC2 scene in Korea.
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On March 14 2011 14:41 nokz88 wrote:![[image loading]](http://file.thisisgame.com/board/files/0/img/20110314104146_c7e48701.jpg)
That's the old MBC Coach :O
also cool
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I thought there is tons of teams who play their players ^^
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On March 14 2011 14:45 aike wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year But considering it's like a 80+ hour a week job... is it really worth it? And yea I do believe a lot of the major foreigner teams pay salaries.
80 hours a week? i change my mind then. lol
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Hmm... I had just sort of assumed that the players on all the major teams would be given a salary. How do the progamers (on other teams) survive? Are they living off savings / parents / have a "real job" as well as playing? They can't all be winning tournaments all the time. Is it the same with the US teams?
This is a real surprise to me. Can someone explain how your average team progamer supports themselves?
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Hmm TSL might not be the first team to give its players salaries, but I wonder how comparable the amounts are? Is there any other SC2 player who has a 31k salary? I'm curious now.. :d
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30k is actually a lot more than it sounds than an average job in US/EU for 2 reasons:
1. This is 30k of disposable income, since they live in a team house and do not need pay rent or mortgage. Housing cost usually take around a quarter to a third of the total income.
2. Cost of living is lower in korea than the West.
3. Assuming FD and Tester stays in code S, he could get at least another 10k. Not to mention prize form other tournaments.
So 30k could easy equal to a lot more.
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30K is a ton if you are thinking about a guaranteed salary on top of all these tournaments that have more and more ENORMOUS prize pools. Yea, if you are looking strictly from a '80 hours a week omg thats not many dollars per hour!!!' standpoint, then I think you need to re-examine. It's not a 'job', its not something people do for the money. These guys started by getting nothing and just did what they love. Now they get to do the things they love everyday, all day. And get paid a handsome some now to do it. Good for them. Good for TSL.
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Alright, this is awesome! Always good to see teams being added to the group of other pro teams who get yearly salary.
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I am surprised at this is only happening now in Korea, of all place. SC2 really still has quite a long way to go.
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On March 14 2011 14:45 aike wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year But considering it's like a 80+ hour a week job... is it really worth it? And yea I do believe a lot of the major foreigner teams pay salaries.
31k, but this is without any tournament won. There are many tournaments, not only in korea but also in NA where these players are invited to go. Really, they can win something like 60-70k, and this is if they never finish first in all of these tournaments (there are minimum 12 per year in korea, don't know about the others). Plus, the 80+ hours of "work" is doing something you like, having fun with teammates, etc. I am sure they most be tired of it at the end, but they certainly enjoy a great part of it.
I wouldn't do it since I can stand to be forced to play, but I don't think they view it as work.
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On March 14 2011 14:59 Paradice wrote:
Hmm... I had just sort of assumed that the players on all the major teams would be given a salary. How do the progamers (on other teams) survive? Are they living off savings / parents / have a "real job" as well as playing? They can't all be winning tournaments all the time. Is it the same with the US teams?
This is a real surprise to me. Can someone explain how your average team progamer supports themselves?
All/most of the people who are on teams in korea live in team houses and have most (or all I believe?) expenses covered, so if they wanted to they could live and have literally 0$ in expenses. Some of the American players are paid (I know E.G has said they pay some of their players.) but american players are not I guess so the people who are not are living as you said from savings / parents / have a "real job", That, together with some mix and match incomes like tournament winnings\coaching etc.
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Always great to hear about things like this! Salaried players is a massive move for any team and I think it will be very important moving forward.
As some others have been saying, people have to keep some things in mind while looking at these numbers:
1) They are provided with housing and food; they're not paying for the "necessities" so this is basically disposable income.
2) This is without any tournament wins factored in. A number of players get over $50k a year with only tournament wins, so this makes it a pretty respectable salary (e.g., entering into upper management at a medium-sized company).
3) The eFame!
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one question, where does '80 hours' come from?
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On March 14 2011 14:55 FXOpen wrote:I've been paying my players a salary since December..... Gotta love media
Pretty sure liquid and EG also pay salaries...
No idea where this article is coming from
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one question, where does '80 hours' come from?
Like most statistics, probably the top of someones head
31k is more than the average Korean makes, also when the majority of your living expenses are covered 31k is a lot of money. Most foreign players are payed a salary, at least when people are interviewed by magazines about how they earn a living they generally say coaching, team salary and tourney winnings. For fruitdealer by just staying in Code S ro32 he is easily looking at 40k per year.
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United States5162 Posts
On March 14 2011 15:08 namedplayer wrote:
one question, where does '80 hours' come from?
10-12 hours everyday
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sigh... if only i were gosu.
<3 props to TSL huge accomplishment.
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On March 14 2011 14:59 Nuri wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:45 aike wrote:On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year But considering it's like a 80+ hour a week job... is it really worth it? And yea I do believe a lot of the major foreigner teams pay salaries. 80 hours a week? i change my mind then. lol
Uh that was bw sc2 they probably do not play that much as they aren't forced to play THAT much.
Another thing to note that they are getting 30k playing a game they love and thats not bad at all thats better then alot of shitty jobs you can get that your working 40 hours a week and hating it.
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Hm, as I suspected, there seems to be a number of foreign teams that pay their players salaries. But both articles put a strong emphasis on "first". Maybe they mean "first korean SC2 team"?
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On March 14 2011 15:08 Backpack wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:55 FXOpen wrote:I've been paying my players a salary since December..... Gotta love media Pretty sure liquid and EG also pay salaries... No idea where this article is coming from
How much, FXOBoss?
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On March 14 2011 14:53 Momildo wrote:
It is a nice step on the right direction, hopefully awareness will increase and the sponsorships with it.
yeah this is great for the players in more ways than one, really hapy to hear that theyre making salary now and its a decent amount from what i can tell. In na if your on 30k a year then your not doing bad for yourself.
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I think they mean the first Korean team to get paid.
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wow this is awesome! i think moman gets a salary? he said in his NASL vod application that he lives off sc2
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well this is coming from a korean website so naturally they mean the first korean team.
Also since the Korean players are living in team houses, accomodating + living expenses are basically zero.
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OP who translated the articles, does it say anything about what the less know players are receiving? Or just FD and Tester?
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So what's the situation with the other teams? Is it that they get free housing and food when they're on a team but get no disposable income except for when they win tournaments? I guess I just assumed that everyone was under contract and got paid a salary.
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I guess the only difference being that their paid salaries are nearly enough to make a living in korea while foreigners have "loosely" paid their players a sum of money which is probably where the difference between salary and paid comes in. Least thats what I think.
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On March 14 2011 15:13 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:08 Backpack wrote:On March 14 2011 14:55 FXOpen wrote:I've been paying my players a salary since December..... Gotta love media Pretty sure liquid and EG also pay salaries... No idea where this article is coming from How much, FXOBoss?
Yes, how much? :D
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On March 14 2011 15:18 feanor1 wrote:
OP who translated the articles, does it say anything about what the less know players are receiving? Or just FD and Tester?
No info about other players on neither article. I looked up in their website(http://www.sc2tsl.com/) to no avail.
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On March 14 2011 15:20 kagemucha wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:13 ch33psh33p wrote:On March 14 2011 15:08 Backpack wrote:On March 14 2011 14:55 FXOpen wrote:I've been paying my players a salary since December..... Gotta love media Pretty sure liquid and EG also pay salaries... No idea where this article is coming from How much, FXOBoss? Yes, how much? :D
I doubt he'll say. It's apparently taboo to disclose that sort of info, at least in the western e-sport scene.
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I was pretty sure liquid played their players. I thought they all got like 1k/month+room/board. At least while in Korea. Maybe they don't count that as a salary because its kind of low? Whatever.
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I guess that is a quite a bit of money when you consider there isn't a lot (if any) living expenses
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amazing; this adds some real legitimacy to e-sports!
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Obviously this does not compare to the 6 digit salaries that the S-class BW players have. How does this compare against your typical A-class BW pro-gamers?
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On March 14 2011 15:18 feanor1 wrote:
OP who translated the articles, does it say anything about what the less know players are receiving? Or just FD and Tester?
If you look at the article on the TSL site ( http://www.sc2tsl.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=61&wr_id=1978 ) it says :
뒤를 이어 팀의 주장 ‘사기수’ 서기수(TSL)가 3,000만원 정도의 연봉을 기록했다. 김원기, 서기수 외에도 모든 선수들이 연봉제도의 혜택을 받게 됐다
which reads that aside from Fruitdealer / Tester, all other TSL members are also going to be receiving salary (altho it does not disclose the amount for the other players)
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Now hopefully this motivates Cool & Tester to actually do better and reach their potential.
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On March 14 2011 15:31 W2 wrote:
Obviously this does not compare to the 6 digit salaries that the S-class BW players have. How does this compare against your typical A-class BW pro-gamers?
I think FD and SSKS's salaries are more than the average A-class salary. There was a list posted a while ago and it showed a huge, huge disparity between the TBLS salaries with the average A-class progamer.
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Great news for E-Sports and hell it's about time someone did.
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this is awesome now tsl will start administering the hurt like they are meant to. Im surprised IM hasnt gotten the sponsors to pay their players since they won gstl and 2 gsl winners -_-
hopefully more teams will be able to start doing this.
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coach lee is a total boss
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On March 14 2011 15:23 Alphaes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:20 kagemucha wrote:On March 14 2011 15:13 ch33psh33p wrote:On March 14 2011 15:08 Backpack wrote:On March 14 2011 14:55 FXOpen wrote:I've been paying my players a salary since December..... Gotta love media Pretty sure liquid and EG also pay salaries... No idea where this article is coming from How much, FXOBoss? Yes, how much? :D I doubt he'll say. It's apparently taboo to disclose that sort of info, at least in the western e-sport scene.
I guess anywhere its a little inappropriate to ask people how much they get paid. Right?
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people are forgetting that by being on the time, they are provided a house to live in and food provided.. not to mention the price money they get for winning.. god they are rich.. FRUITDEALER DONT SPEND IT ON ALCOHOL!!!
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On March 14 2011 15:32 Namkung wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:18 feanor1 wrote:
OP who translated the articles, does it say anything about what the less know players are receiving? Or just FD and Tester? If you look at the article on the TSL site ( http://www.sc2tsl.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=61&wr_id=1978 ) it says : 뒤를 이어 팀의 주장 ‘사기수’ 서기수(TSL)가 3,000만원 정도의 연봉을 기록했다. 김원기, 서기수 외에도 모든 선수들이 연봉제도의 혜택을 받게 됐다 which reads that aside from Fruitdealer / Tester, all other TSL members are also going to be receiving salary (altho it does not disclose the amount for the other players)
You are absolutely right. Sorry I thought you were asking about the amount of money they were getting paid, not whether or not they were being paid. As Namkung pointed out, all 9 players will be receiving salaries, but the amount for each player is not known, save for the two I mentioned.
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30k a year to train to be the greatest,
not bad if you have the ability and want to do it
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Clide better get millions, he is the best player in the world after all..
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don't forget they don't have to pay rent or food living in the team house.
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huh. Weren't boxer and his team getting paid?
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On March 14 2011 15:31 W2 wrote:
Obviously this does not compare to the 6 digit salaries that the S-class BW players have. How does this compare against your typical A-class BW pro-gamers?
Considering the infancy of SC2, a great first step. Though I do echo your question, how much does the average A-class(B-team?) BW pro-gamer make?
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On March 14 2011 15:23 Alphaes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:20 kagemucha wrote:On March 14 2011 15:13 ch33psh33p wrote:On March 14 2011 15:08 Backpack wrote:On March 14 2011 14:55 FXOpen wrote:I've been paying my players a salary since December..... Gotta love media Pretty sure liquid and EG also pay salaries... No idea where this article is coming from How much, FXOBoss? Yes, how much? :D I doubt he'll say. It's apparently taboo to disclose that sort of info, at least in the western e-sport scene.
Meh perhaps. I know how much Kobe Bryant gets paid.
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Pro league is just next door
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If you were for a public institution your salary is generally disclosed I wouldn't say it's taboo to disclose that, people just don't like to. If you want to see how much I make, it is posted on the Utah State Public Employees listing ;D Along with everybody else that works for my university.
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On March 14 2011 15:40 echO [W] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:31 W2 wrote:
Obviously this does not compare to the 6 digit salaries that the S-class BW players have. How does this compare against your typical A-class BW pro-gamers? Considering the infancy of SC2, a great first step. Though I do echo your question, how much does the average A-class(B-team?) BW pro-gamer make?
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142342
Flash gets 220k USD. Highest salary player
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I pay above average
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On March 14 2011 14:45 aike wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year But considering it's like a 80+ hour a week job... is it really worth it? And yea I do believe a lot of the major foreigner teams pay salaries.
Most people do not find themselves in a situation where they like their job, and if my job was to play video games I think I would be quite happy. Not to mention that is their base salary, excluding tournament money. It's no BoxeR or Flash/Jaedong salary, but SC2 is new. Hell I play 80 hours a week for fun! :p
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30,000 USD is quite substantial when you factor in the cost of living in korea is considerably cheaper than any western countries. albeit the clock in 80 hours a week, the salary i believe would be equivalent of 60,000USD if you were living in the states.
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Things are starting to move in the right direction. Congrats to TSL :D
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This might be stupid guestion, but who are the actual sponsors of TSL? Can't remember any :D
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SK has cheaper living costs than in North America -- I personally can't compare to the EU -- and they already have their room, board, and supposed food paid for, so 31k is actually pretty damn good.
On March 14 2011 15:45 FXOpen wrote:I pay above average
Until you disclose specifics, stop trying to turn this in to your thread 
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On March 14 2011 15:55 Welmu wrote:
This might be stupid guestion, but who are the actual sponsors of TSL? Can't remember any :D
Yea the big huge picture saying Emtek doesnt give anything away at all
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thats really a pretty good salary in korea
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On March 14 2011 15:45 kagemucha wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:40 echO [W] wrote:On March 14 2011 15:31 W2 wrote:
Obviously this does not compare to the 6 digit salaries that the S-class BW players have. How does this compare against your typical A-class BW pro-gamers? Considering the infancy of SC2, a great first step. Though I do echo your question, how much does the average A-class(B-team?) BW pro-gamer make? http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142342Flash gets 220k USD. Highest salary player
last year he got 400k+ per year salary+prizes
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Definitely goes to show how weak SC2 is in Korea in comparison to BW. Hopefully other Korean teams will be able to pick up more sponsors and more sponsors will continue to get involved so SC2 can continue to grow. At this point, it definitely is much more worthwhile to be a foreign (outside of Korea) SC2 player.
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On March 14 2011 15:55 Welmu wrote:
This might be stupid guestion, but who are the actual sponsors of TSL? Can't remember any :D
http://www.sc2tsl.com/
In the main page there is a list with all the sponsors.
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I think G-Skill and EVGA are some the companies sponsoring TSL so they must be making good money :D
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intel gives boxer a few hundret thousend + a few more for making a team so i am pretty sure slayers did it before
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On March 14 2011 16:04 CoR wrote:
intel gives boxer a few hundret thousend + a few more for making a team so i am pretty sure slayers did it before
Technically, Intel only sponsors BoxeR and only BoxeR receives a salary,so, TSL would be the first Korean SC2 Pro-team to give salaries to their player. SlayerS is not sponsored by Intel, and only BoxeR's uniform features the Intel emblem.
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On March 14 2011 15:31 W2 wrote:
Obviously this does not compare to the 6 digit salaries that the S-class BW players have. How does this compare against your typical A-class BW pro-gamers?
See this old thread
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=49725
SK1T
iloveoov, Choi Yunsung - $450,000 - 4.2005-3.2008
Kingdom, Park Yongwook - $300,000 - 4.2005-3.2008
GoRush, Park Taemin - $300,000 - 4.2005-3.2008
KTF
[Oops]Reach, Park Jungsuk - $400,000 - 1.2005-12.2007
YellOw, Hong Jinho - $330,000 - 4.2004-3.2007
Nal_rA, Kang Min - $330,000 - 4.2004-3.2007
CJ
XellOs, Seo Jihoon - $150,000 - 4.2006-3.2007
sAviOr, Ma Jaeyoon - $70,000 - 4.2006-3.2007
MBC Game
July, Park SungJoon - $110,000 - 4.2006-3.2007
PuSan[S.G], Park Jiho - $40,000 - 4.2006-3.2007
Sea.Shield , Yum Bosung - $20,000 - 4.2006-3.2007
Pantech
[ReD]NaDa, Lee Yoonyeol - $600,000 - 8.2004-7.2007
Silver, Shim Somyung - $90,000 - 8.2006-1.2008
TheROCK, Ahn Kihyo - $60,000 - 8.2006-1.2008
Samsung
JJu, Byun Eunjong - $70,000 - 1.2006-12.2006
Stork, Song Byungkoo - $50,000 - 1.2006-12.2006
ZergLee, Lee Changhoon - $46,000 - 1.2006-12.2006
LeCaf
AnyTime, Oh Youngjong - $40,000 - 3.2006-2.2007
Bright[z-zone], Kim SungKeon - $24,000 - 3.2006-2.2007
ShinHwA[Name], Choi Karam - $20,000 - 3.2006-2.2007
Ongamenet
ClouD, Cha Jaewook - $40,000 - 6.2006-5.2007
Casy[Alive], Han Dongwook - $36,000 - 6.2006-5.2007
ZeuS, Jeon Taekyu - $18,000 - 6.2006-5.2007
Estro
Tester[gm], Seo Kisoo - $28,000 - 10.2006-9.2007
Eliza, Cho Yongsung - $24,000 - 10.2006-9.2007
Cool[fOu], Kim Wonki - $24,000 - 10.2006-9.2007
Hanbit
GGPlay, Kim Joonyoung - $23,000 - 4.2006-3.2007
DaezanG[GnH], Park Daemahn - $18,000 - 4.2006-3.2007
Free[gm], Yoon Yongtae - $6,000 - 4.2006-3.2007
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TSL is my favorite Star2 team and while I am happy for them I feel that they are one of the most under achieving GSL teams right now. So much talent and big names yet nothing to show for it since Cool won GSL#1.
Hopefully this will motivate them to return to beta / early retail form (Tester and Cool at least).
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I'm not sure why people are shrugging the money off. I don't think it is an incredible amount by any means, but at the same time this is a team that didn't make it to the finals and doesn't have any top level players (by that I mean the people considered to be one step ahead of the rest like MC, MVP etc.) FruitDealer had the first GSL win which was obviously major, but we likely won't be seeing another win from him... and Tester and Clide haven't been impressive with results either.
I am not bashing the team... they are still very good, and I don't want the focus to be on the players so much (though I felt it was worth mentioning), but all things aside... they are getting that money in addition to any winnings... PLUS their living and daily costs are already covered. I think some people don't appreciate the costs of day to day living. $30,000 of disposable cash a year is quite a lot. Keep in mind, the salaries will significantly increase when certain players establish themselves as the best.
As for the "80 hours a week" thing... they are playing a video game. I am NOT saying that it is not mentally straining, but at the same time many of them have a lot of fun with it. There are many jobs that people only work for 40 hours a week which are more stressful.
Sorry this post was poorly written... it's getting late, but I think I got my point across.
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Haha, funny how they didn't got paid before and just did it for the love. Now that they do get paid, a lot more than when they got nothing and when there is no industry standard whatsoever. Suddenly it's bad pay for the hour? Who says they are contracted to play that much anyway, maybe they just wanna do it themselves because they wanna be the best.
Another point is that they live in the teamhouse, and I think the rent and most of the daily food already gets supplied from the team. So your salary basically is savings and pocketmoney if you hit the town. Pretty much it is not comparable to a normal work situation salary, everyone would still be doing it if they didn't get paid salary (prize money not included ofc) so keep that in mind when you compare it.
Like other in this thread, I'm also confused because I was under the impression that there were more teams that gave some sort of salary (stipend?) to their players. Sometimes when a (western) player transfer occurs one of the main reasons they state in the interview for making the change is because it was better financially.
Also when I look at the picture Coach Lee looks like an absolute baller. He must've had a huge hand in making it happen, really cool.
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80 hours a week may seem like its alot for only making 31k. They got tourneys that pay and they are getting paid to play sc2! Alot of us prolly put 20 hours + a week and dont get paid a dime. I would play 80 hours a week if I was good and got paid. Its better then working 40 hours at a job i dont like and then putting 20 hours on sc2..lol
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I do not believe that FD plays 80 hours a week.
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Excellent. More money brings better players. Nice to see SC2 growing fast.
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Afaik, it is up to the players how long they practiced. So i doubt that its 80 hours.
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Is that Coach Lee from Hero? Also 31k is a lot for just playing SC2 as they don't pay rates.
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Oh wow, I thought they already got salaries.
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So, this might seem like a silly question, but....if they weren't getting salaries before, how exactly did they support themselves? Were they really working 40 hours a week, full time, AND getting this good at SC2? I'm guessing they are not working other jobs, so how do they do it? Where did the money come from, before sponsors?
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That's a lot of money esp since it is in Korea, and they don't have to pay for food or rent.
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On March 14 2011 17:16 FubsyGamr wrote:
So, this might seem like a silly question, but....if they weren't getting salaries before, how exactly did they support themselves? Were they really working 40 hours a week, full time, AND getting this good at SC2? I'm guessing they are not working other jobs, so how do they do it? Where did the money come from, before sponsors?
Well living in a team house covers almost all of your standard living expenses, so likely the only disposable income came from winnings or outside part time work/parents.
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Well good for scv life. Well done to all the teams who offer salary whether foreign or not.
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I wonder if anyone knows this but are there progaming licences for sc2? I remember there is for wc3/bw and other e-sports games for Koreans which makes a big deal when you earn money since you only pay a few % of income tax. Hope anyone can clarify this for me.
I don't think there are but I want some confirmation if anyone with a source knows.
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The sum is worth it imo, most of these people are doing something they love and always wanted to do. Also considering the get to keep what they win, it's a bonus incentive.
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On March 14 2011 17:27 shannn wrote:
I wonder if anyone knows this but are there progaming licences for sc2? I remember there is for wc3/bw and other e-sports games for Koreans which makes a big deal when you earn money since you only pay a few % of income tax. Hope anyone can clarify this for me.
I don't think there are but I want some confirmation if anyone with a source knows.
Nope. KeSPA doesn't run the show for SC2.
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On March 14 2011 17:22 superbabosheki wrote:
That's a lot of money esp since it is in Korea, and they don't have to pay for food or rent.
ironically food and rent is like the only thing cheap in korea (well that and clothing, pretty much daily needs), rest (+enjoyment) is similar or more expensive.
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Out of pure interest - and sorry to derail - what's the cost of food, rent and enjoyment in S-Korea?
How much monthly for a standard 1 bedroom apartment? (About $1400-$1500 USD /m in Oslo, Norway)
How much is a 0,5L beer in a pub? (About $10-$11 in Oslo, Norway)
Dinner for two bought in a store? (About $17 in Oslo, Norway)
Bottle of coke? ($2.6 Oslo, Norway)
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That's a pretty horrible salary for the amount of hours put in. Minimum wage earns more.
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United States4796 Posts
Woo!
Foreign scene still ahead though. :-P
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On March 14 2011 17:50 Mulletarian wrote:
Out of pure interest - and sorry to derail - what's the cost of food, rent and enjoyment in S-Korea?
How much monthly for a standard 1 bedroom apartment? (About $1400-$1500 USD /m in Oslo, Norway)
How much is a 0,5L beer in a pub? (About $10-$11 in Oslo, Norway)
Dinner for two bought in a store? (About $17 in Oslo, Norway)
Bottle of coke? ($2.6 Oslo, Norway)
What?! Those prices are obscene! I'm speaking from an American perspective but still, those costs are like 2-3 times more expensive than their equivalents here (and it's not like our equivalents are of any worse quality). I guess it's understandable with Norway's small scale and location though.
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I think there are many foreign teams with players recieving salaries. But I dont know how much money is on the move.
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On March 14 2011 17:50 Mulletarian wrote:
Out of pure interest - and sorry to derail - what's the cost of food, rent and enjoyment in S-Korea?
How much monthly for a standard 1 bedroom apartment? (About $1400-$1500 USD /m in Oslo, Norway)
How much is a 0,5L beer in a pub? (About $10-$11 in Oslo, Norway)
Dinner for two bought in a store? (About $17 in Oslo, Norway)
Bottle of coke? ($2.6 Oslo, Norway)
Wow, that's pretty huge O_o
I don't know the cost of life in South Korea but that's more than in Belgium.
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On March 14 2011 17:34 ooni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 17:22 superbabosheki wrote:
That's a lot of money esp since it is in Korea, and they don't have to pay for food or rent. ironically food and rent is like the only thing cheap in korea (well that and clothing, pretty much daily needs), rest (+enjoyment) is similar or more expensive.
What else do they really need though lol..
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I'm sure they got some money before, just like people of other teams - but now they're getting a "real" salary
doesnt S class player get $1250 or something per month? or was that just a rumour?
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I dont understand why everyone is complaining that for the number of hours they "work" the amount of money they're getting is somehow bad.
Weren't they happy just playing the game for no salary before?
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On March 14 2011 14:45 aike wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year But considering it's like a 80+ hour a week job... is it really worth it? And yea I do believe a lot of the major foreigner teams pay salaries.
I seriously doubt anyone on this team practice that much. If so it's not showing in gsl performances.
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On March 14 2011 18:00 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:45 aike wrote:On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year But considering it's like a 80+ hour a week job... is it really worth it? And yea I do believe a lot of the major foreigner teams pay salaries. I seriously doubt anyone on this team practice that much. If so it's not showing in gsl performances.
touche
But lol, I certainly agree. TSL has the best jerseys and jackets and best sponsors, but the worst actual performances atm.
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That's A LOT of money. My goodness...
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On March 14 2011 18:00 Oneoldfogie wrote:
I dont understand why everyone is complaining that for the number of hours they "work" the amount of money they're getting is somehow bad.
Weren't they happy just playing the game for no salary before?
Indeed they were, as are many other teams. As time goes by this figure is likely to rise if the team performs well and SC2 grows bigger, but their current salary is fantastic for young adults who are playing games for a living with a very high chance of taking that number 1 spot.
I hope to see much from TSL, go fightin~g!
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This is a sweet deal but I was expecting IM to be the first team to get payed considering their success.
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http://www.worldsalaries.org/korea.shtml
lists average monthly income (as of 2005) for a Computer Programmer (software developer) as $ 2,245. Meaning their salary is not very high for a skilled worker. On the other hand, considering that these pro-gamers are very young and without much education (i.e. a fruit dealer), their salary is not bad at all. For example, the average income of a Salesperson is listed as $1600.
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On March 14 2011 17:51 hmunkey wrote:
That's a pretty horrible salary for the amount of hours put in. Minimum wage earns more.
Except most of us would put the hours in for no money at all.
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On March 14 2011 18:10 thesideshow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 17:51 hmunkey wrote:
That's a pretty horrible salary for the amount of hours put in. Minimum wage earns more. Except most of us would put the hours in for no money at all.
That sum in the OP didn't include the $85k fruitdealer made from winning first gsl and other performances after. OP just list base pay for player regardless of outcome for tournament.
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I don't think anybody on TSL plays for '80 hours a week' like some posters are saying in this thread. The reason Fruitdealer and Tester left oGs was because they didn't like their intensive training regimen.
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Sounds like a good deal, although it would be interesting to see how much of a cut the team make of players prize winnings.
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I really hope you guys are aware that all somewhat decent European players receive monthly payments from their clan, and the same should apply for most American ones. The salaries are significantly lower than FruitDealer's, of course, but still it seems to me that this headline might confuse some people.
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I like this, this is a good step
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On March 14 2011 18:22 red4ce wrote:
I don't think anybody on TSL plays for '80 hours a week' like some posters are saying in this thread. The reason Fruitdealer and Tester left oGs was because they didn't like their intensive training regimen.
...and still oGs outperforms TSL. :D
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I think it's really good for esports and SC2 but man.. 31k for all those hours of practice seems so crazy to me
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This could create an interesting new dynamic for players changing teams. When players start getting offers for higher salaries to switch teams, we might be seeing a lot more swapping around.
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The GSL also pays a salary. It's a decent living, I think. Especially if they place highly in several seasons.
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On March 14 2011 18:54 ShyRamen wrote:I think it's really good for esports and SC2 but man.. 31k for all those hours of practice seems so crazy to me
31k + food and place to live + you keep what you win. I'd say it's a pretty good deal. And you probably also get to travel abit.
Not to mention you get to play Starcraft all day. Let's not forget that this is a game, and 99.99% of all people do this to have fun. The 31k is more of a bonus to all of that.
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31k USD per year.
Sprinkle with prizes.
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Thats really great news seeing as TSL is a very new team in comparison to the other SC2 teams out there. They've moved very quickly with sponsors.
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On March 14 2011 19:00 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 18:54 ShyRamen wrote:I think it's really good for esports and SC2 but man.. 31k for all those hours of practice seems so crazy to me 31k + food and place to live + you keep what you win. I'd say it's a pretty good deal. And you probably also get to travel abit. Not to mention you get to play Starcraft all day. Let's not forget that this is a game, and 99.99% of all people do this to have fun. The 31k is more of a bonus to all of that.
I didn't say it was horrible, ofc it's a good deal for a progamer I am just saying that for my standards is pretty crazy to think that someone "working" all those hours a week only get that amount of money...
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It's good to see progamers' hard work paying off in more ways than one Especially since gaming is their life.
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good money and this really shows sc2 is totally on its way to srs esport status.
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On March 14 2011 18:04 tyCe wrote:
But lol, I certainly agree. TSL has the best jerseys and jackets and best sponsors, but the worst actual performances atm.
nvm im retarded
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I don't understand this thread at all. SC BW players have been paid salary for years, and even someone who has posted in this thread is paying SC2 players a salary already. [FXOpen, page 1]
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I thought several Foreign teams payed their players, like Liquid? Maybe it's the sponsors that do so?
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The good news is that the sponsors are happy enough to increase their involvement in SC2 , hope it will help other teams to find sponsors and get sc2 progammers a decent standard of living.
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On March 14 2011 19:26 DivineSC wrote:
I thought several Foreign teams payed their players, like Liquid? Maybe it's the sponsors that do so?
There are dozens of teams that pay their players, this headline relates to South Korea only.
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$30,000 and free housing, free food, free computer setups, and probably a fair amount of free team clothes. Plus a fair amount of their day to day annoyances (cleaning, laundry, etc.) are probably taken care of. That's a good deal, especially considering that the S-class players get the monthly GOM stipend and the shot at the GOM prize money for performing well in S-class.
I guess this means before this the Liquid guys were probably the only pros in Korea getting a salary (except for the random foreigners in the GOM house on teams). Says a lot about the high level of support TLAF provides for Team Liquid and the foreigner scene.
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On March 14 2011 18:10 thesideshow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 17:51 hmunkey wrote:
That's a pretty horrible salary for the amount of hours put in. Minimum wage earns more. Except most of us would put the hours in for no money at all.
True, but their practice regimen is nothing like any of our play schedules are. We play the game to derive entertainment; they don't. Plus, team house living conditions aren't exactly the greatest so when it's all said and done, I still don't think top pro-gamers are compensated that well. Yes, there's the occasional outlier like Fruitdealer, but the vast majority of players can't win tournaments like that.
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On March 14 2011 15:16 L3g3nd_ wrote:
wow this is awesome! i think moman gets a salary? he said in his NASL vod application that he lives off sc2
Yes he gets a salary and can play SC2 all day but on the other hand he has to stay at the PCBang sponsoring him and work here so he might have to pause his ladder games here and then to deliver a ticket to a highschooler missing school in order to play WOW all day long ^^
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On March 14 2011 14:55 FXOpen wrote:I've been paying my players a salary since December..... Gotta love media
MyM and Cyber Nation as well.
TSL is definitely not the first team, but they might have the highest salaries.
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On March 14 2011 18:40 HeIios wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 18:22 red4ce wrote:
I don't think anybody on TSL plays for '80 hours a week' like some posters are saying in this thread. The reason Fruitdealer and Tester left oGs was because they didn't like their intensive training regimen. ...and still oGs outperforms TSL. :D
They are tied for 1 champion each
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I'm sure they're not the first SC2 team to pay salary to their players, but I'd be shocked if any of the other teams paid their players nearly as much.
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On March 14 2011 14:45 aike wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year But considering it's like a 80+ hour a week job... is it really worth it? And yea I do believe a lot of the major foreigner teams pay salaries.
iirc the average salery of starcraft players is higher than the average of a korean citizen (though this is probably referring to starcraft 1). so i'd say it's not too shabby/
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Didn't many people said that sc2 teams already did get salaries..?
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On March 14 2011 21:07 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:55 FXOpen wrote:I've been paying my players a salary since December..... Gotta love media MyM and Cyber Nation as well.
I'm puzzled how little people on TeamLiquid actually know about esports. First, all the hype about the NASL as if it was something revolutionary for the development of esports, nowyou guys seem to think that Western pro-gamers don't get paid by their clans. I assume that it's because of most users' SC1 background where the foreign scene wasn't professional.
Anyway: Many players get salaries (probably, there are more paid SC2 players in Europe than in the US, because Europe has more sponsored clans). All the succesful teams pay their players, without exception (I'm only unsure about teams like ROOT). Liquid, mouz, MYM, Alternate, Dignitas, fnatic, Millenium, Praetoriani, ESC, RoX, virus, aAa, Empire, and many more. It's usually only a few hundred dollars a month, though.
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eh... salary is pretty low for the lower tier players if the 2nd's pay is already down to 27k :/
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A lot of negative nancies up in this here thread. It's plenty of money for a single person (more than I earn as a graduate) and they are playing games professionally.
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On March 14 2011 19:23 Buddhist wrote:
I don't understand this thread at all. SC BW players have been paid salary for years, and even someone who has posted in this thread is paying SC2 players a salary already. [FXOpen, page 1]
Presumably it should have said that TSL is the first korean team to play SC2 players salaries.
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By the way, I just realized it's definitely not true that TSL is the first Korean team with salaried players either. WeMade FOX pays quite a lot of money to Moon and Lyn. Moon used to earn about 11000$ a month, and his salary might have went down by now, but it's probably still more than FruitDealer earns.
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On March 14 2011 21:40 Tomken wrote:
Didn't many people said that sc2 teams already did get salaries..?
I don't know for sure but I think most teams give their players some money but maybe not in the form of salary. Also living in the team house basically for free can be considered salary.
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On March 14 2011 20:04 D.Devil wrote:
There are dozens of teams that pay their players, this headline relates to South Korea only.
Not even. The title in the OP is very misleading.
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Wow, I just assumed that all of the pro korean teams got paid.. hmmmm... Does that guy int he lower picture look like one of the coaches from MBCgame to anyone else?
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On March 14 2011 22:20 GreEny K wrote:
Wow, I just assumed that all of the pro korean teams got paid.. hmmmm... Does that guy int he lower picture look like one of the coaches from MBCgame to anyone else?
You don't recognize Coach Lee aka Mama bear?
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On March 14 2011 22:25 zerious wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 22:20 GreEny K wrote:
Wow, I just assumed that all of the pro korean teams got paid.. hmmmm... Does that guy int he lower picture look like one of the coaches from MBCgame to anyone else? You don't recognize Coach Lee aka Mama bear?
It is him? Looks like him... That's what I was asking. What's his affiliation to sc2 now?
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On March 14 2011 14:46 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year pretty mediocre when its 80 hours a week though, hopefully it rises in a year or 2
It's 80 hours of SC2, not 80 hours mining coal. I don't think you could ask for much more right now.
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On March 14 2011 22:29 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 22:25 zerious wrote:On March 14 2011 22:20 GreEny K wrote:
Wow, I just assumed that all of the pro korean teams got paid.. hmmmm... Does that guy int he lower picture look like one of the coaches from MBCgame to anyone else? You don't recognize Coach Lee aka Mama bear? It is him? Looks like him... That's what I was asking.
It is him
And I think it's fairly obvious that the news is about SC2 teams, not BW/ other games.
To the discussion "other teams surely pay as well" - how much? We know basically nothing about how much the western esports players get. In most cases it's even speculation that they anything at all (can anyone link me a source that says Liquid pays it's players?).
So to FXOpen from p1:
Where can we read up how much your 2 top players earn? Because you could as well pay them 100$ a month (you mentioned something like "more than average" average what? BW A class salary? BW B class? other esport-games salary? SKorean population average? US average?)
I think you can understand why this is what the media (and most of TL) are interested in, because we finally get some facts. Not speculation & hints.
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Im glad to hear. Im hoping more Korean teams follows up on the same track!
For eSports  :-)
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amazing, think of all the watermelons that fruitdealer can buy now!
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not to be cynical but no one else is surpised by FD getting so much even though he hasn't been performing very well recently?
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On March 14 2011 14:46 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year pretty mediocre when its 80 hours a week though, hopefully it rises in a year or 2
Perhaps 80 hours a week seems high to most of us, but remember. Most of their housing costs are paid for if I'm not mistaken and I think their main (only?) responsibility is food if I'm not mistaken. If I didn't have to pay for my house, utilities, insurance, car insurance, etc (or, could write everything off internet, electricity, PC hardware etc as a tax deductible "working" from home), 31,000/year would go more than far enough to begin .
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wow thats amazing, that gives me real hope for the future of e-sports ! LoL, honestly its awesome !
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On March 14 2011 15:02 godemperor wrote:
30k is actually a lot more than it sounds than an average job in US/EU for 2 reasons:
1. This is 30k of disposable income, since they live in a team house and do not need pay rent or mortgage. Housing cost usually take around a quarter to a third of the total income.
2. Cost of living is lower in korea than the West.
3. Assuming FD and Tester stays in code S, he could get at least another 10k. Not to mention prize form other tournaments.
So 30k could easy equal to a lot more.
Some great points, but I do want to point out that you have to be careful with #2 as Seoul has one of the highest cost of living of any city in the world. so it is heavily Dependant on where at in Korea you live.
On March 14 2011 22:56 Trentelshark wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:46 Fayth wrote:On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year pretty mediocre when its 80 hours a week though, hopefully it rises in a year or 2 Perhaps 80 hours a week seems high to most of us, but remember. Most of their housing costs are paid for if I'm not mistaken and I think their main (only?) responsibility is food if I'm not mistaken. If I didn't have to pay for my house, utilities, insurance, car insurance, etc (or, could write everything off internet, electricity, PC hardware etc as a tax deductible "working" from home), 31,000/year would go more than far enough to begin .
I believe food is covered if they are eating at the house but that is mainly rice, ramen,etc. They would have to pay if they wanted something better like kobe or pizza
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Yeah SC2 pro don't actually practice 80 hours a week. I thought the oGs-TL house tour pretty much covered that up. They don't practice as much as BW pros.
A progamer's salary can also be considered as 100$ pocket money or saved money because all of their living expenses are covered.
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Its funny people say 31k is perfectly acceptable in this thread; In threads about the match fixing people posted salaries of this amount to be an acceptable reason for people to match fix, as if its somehow justified.
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On March 14 2011 22:29 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 22:25 zerious wrote:On March 14 2011 22:20 GreEny K wrote:
Wow, I just assumed that all of the pro korean teams got paid.. hmmmm... Does that guy int he lower picture look like one of the coaches from MBCgame to anyone else? You don't recognize Coach Lee aka Mama bear? It is him? Looks like him... That's what I was asking. What's his affiliation to sc2 now?
He is the TSL coach/manager.
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On March 14 2011 23:17 infinity2k9 wrote:
Its funny people say 31k is perfectly acceptable in this thread; In threads about the match fixing people posted salaries of this amount to be an acceptable reason for people to match fix, as if its somehow justified.
This was also back when Bonjwas could pull in nearly a million a year including salaries, winnings, and advertisement.
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awesome news, I am soooo jealous >_<
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On March 14 2011 23:14 chenchen wrote:
Yeah SC2 pro don't actually practice 80 hours a week. I thought the oGs-TL house tour pretty much covered that up. They don't practice as much as BW pros.
A progamer's salary can also be considered as 100$ pocket money or saved money because all of their living expenses are covered.
Junwi said during the GSTL that Team IM practices around the same as pro BW teams.
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On March 14 2011 22:49 lim1017 wrote:
not to be cynical but no one else is surpised by FD getting so much even though he hasn't been performing very well recently?
Fruitdealer and Tester (I'm still calling him tester because his name has changed 5 times before I finish this post) are the two top players of TSL. Neither has been performing particularly well in the GSL, but who else on TSL can match them? Furthermore, no one except MC performed "as expected" in code S this season.
Exposure and the ability to generate viewership are more important things to sponsors then actual tournament results. Fruitdealer won the first GSL and became a big name in SC2, people tune in to watch him, even if he doesn't do so well *cough* Boxer *cough*.
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31K US is pretty good + additional prize money you might win (and if FD can keep Code S, it's like 12k a year).
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On March 14 2011 22:35 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 22:29 GreEny K wrote:On March 14 2011 22:25 zerious wrote:On March 14 2011 22:20 GreEny K wrote:
Wow, I just assumed that all of the pro korean teams got paid.. hmmmm... Does that guy int he lower picture look like one of the coaches from MBCgame to anyone else? You don't recognize Coach Lee aka Mama bear? It is him? Looks like him... That's what I was asking. It is him And I think it's fairly obvious that the news is about SC2 teams, not BW/ other games. To the discussion "other teams surely pay as well" - how much? We know basically nothing about how much the western esports players get. In most cases it's even speculation that they anything at all (can anyone link me a source that says Liquid pays it's players?). So to FXOpen from p1: Where can we read up how much your 2 top players earn? Because you could as well pay them 100$ a month (you mentioned something like "more than average" average what? BW A class salary? BW B class? other esport-games salary? SKorean population average? US average?) I think you can understand why this is what the media (and most of TL) are interested in, because we finally get some facts. Not speculation & hints.
Player salaries will not be disclosed. By 'average' he meant average comparable to the other foreign teams.
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30K per year, thats nice salary for playing games, especially when you consider that they have prize money on top of that.
I know TL and EG pay their players salaries, and they don't disclose them, but wouldn't have thought many of them are anywhere near this size. I hope they are, but I can't see TL and EG et al paying 30k salaries to everyone, if I were a pro-gamer I would be happy with a couple hundred dollars a week unless I was raking in the tournament results like Jinro has and then I'd probably be ok for money anyways lol.
Like TL's main sponsor is TLAF, paying 6 players even 20k per year would be alot of money to shell out for a small business, its not like they are sponsored by samsung or coca-cola who can literally burn money and their bank accounts still increase in size ;p
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Nice! I hope Startale gets some cool sponsors and pay big bucks for all their players.
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On March 14 2011 17:51 hmunkey wrote:
That's a pretty horrible salary for the amount of hours put in. Minimum wage earns more.
I dont know where you live but in the UK the minimum wage is waaaay below that. Most minimum wage earners here make around £11,000 per year (around $17,000) and in the US the federal minimum wage is $7.35 per hour which on a 36 hour week is $14,000 per year.
You can argue that korean sc2 players probably put in more hours per week than 36 (probably not double that tho which would put them around minimum wage per hour), but they also get living expenses paid for them on top of their salary and they get prize money etc. 31k per year to sit around playing a computer game is good money by any standards..... and this is ONLY the start.
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On March 14 2011 23:27 chenchen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 23:17 infinity2k9 wrote:
Its funny people say 31k is perfectly acceptable in this thread; In threads about the match fixing people posted salaries of this amount to be an acceptable reason for people to match fix, as if its somehow justified. This was also back when Bonjwas could pull in nearly a million a year including salaries, winnings, and advertisement.
What? People were making this argument right up into this year and the end of last year. Not that it would make sense anyway, someone like Flash obviously deserves to win more than Upmagic, Hwasin etc. yet people said they felt bad for them anyway somehow, it's crazy.
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yeah, i know that teams like FXO, Fnatic and EG pay their players salaries. what makes TSL the first to pay their team? is it supposed to be the first Starcraft-exclusive team or the first korean SC2 team or something?
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30k is a really big deal.
Sure it's not comparable to a good paying job, but considering that sc2 just "got" started and that the players basically don't need to spend anything on living expenses (except some clothes maybe) it's a decent wage.
2,5k spendable income per month is way beyond what the majority of people earns.
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On March 14 2011 23:59 universalwill wrote:
yeah, i know that teams like FXO, Fnatic and EG pay their players salaries. what makes TSL the first to pay their team? is it supposed to be the first Starcraft-exclusive team or the first korean SC2 team or something?
Well if the foreign community barely has any information on the salaries of those teams, how is the Korean media supposed to know? Just take it in context as the first "Korean SC2 salaried team". No big deal.
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Wow so this is what coach Lee said to be "good news" yesterday
I'm so happy for TSL ^^
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Very cool.
One thing I've always wondered is where the winnings for tournaments go. Does the winning player get 100%? Do they share a % with the team? Is this ever disclosed?
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This is probably one of the reasons why so few adults plays SC2 full time. The amount of money you get for 8-12 hour job is horrible. And those numbers were for only for the 2 most well payed players...
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On March 14 2011 23:43 frequency wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 22:35 Zocat wrote:On March 14 2011 22:29 GreEny K wrote:On March 14 2011 22:25 zerious wrote:On March 14 2011 22:20 GreEny K wrote:
Wow, I just assumed that all of the pro korean teams got paid.. hmmmm... Does that guy int he lower picture look like one of the coaches from MBCgame to anyone else? You don't recognize Coach Lee aka Mama bear? It is him? Looks like him... That's what I was asking. It is him And I think it's fairly obvious that the news is about SC2 teams, not BW/ other games. To the discussion "other teams surely pay as well" - how much? We know basically nothing about how much the western esports players get. In most cases it's even speculation that they anything at all (can anyone link me a source that says Liquid pays it's players?). So to FXOpen from p1: Where can we read up how much your 2 top players earn? Because you could as well pay them 100$ a month (you mentioned something like "more than average" average what? BW A class salary? BW B class? other esport-games salary? SKorean population average? US average?) I think you can understand why this is what the media (and most of TL) are interested in, because we finally get some facts. Not speculation & hints. Player salaries will not be disclosed. By 'average' he meant average comparable to the other foreign teams.
Well, then that doesn't say much because nobody knows how much foreign teams pay their players on average. He also did not specify whether he took into account the teams that do not pay their players any salary at all (the vast majority) to estimate this "average salary" or just the teams that do pay their players.
If the former, then the average salary would be pretty small (close to nothing).
edit: It's also funny to hear that news, because I've seen sc2 fans claim that most/all Korean sc2 pro-teams pay their players in sc2 vs. BW discussions. (Don't want to start another flamewar or derail the thread, just wanted to point that out.)
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On March 14 2011 23:17 infinity2k9 wrote:
Its funny people say 31k is perfectly acceptable in this thread; In threads about the match fixing people posted salaries of this amount to be an acceptable reason for people to match fix, as if its somehow justified.
One game is less than a year old and still finding it's place in the Korean e-sports scene. The other is the most successful e-sport ever. It's like comparing NFL salaries to XFL salaries. Match fixing is wrong anyways so I don't know why you would bring that up.
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Wow. $31k. That's like 10% of what Flash makes.
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From what I know which might be incorrect. The average Korean makes around 15,000,000 KRW a year so the progamers are making a lot more than that. Prize money + Salary Avg out at least 50,000,000 KRW when this includes food and housing I think it is a good deal.
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Flash looks at the news, looks at his contract.
"not yet."
But on a serious note. We are on a good way. I'm sure if we had OGN and MBC from the start, things would have exploded faster.
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Sweet, player salaries. SC2 is getting places!
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wtf i expected all players in the major teams would get salaries. they get a place to sleep and play and thats it? i would rather play for a western team then...
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Man this is the life, doing something you love and being able to pay the bills for this.... I wish I could live a life such as this...
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30K plus prize winnings isn't too shabby, especially if you're a top player.
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On March 14 2011 15:02 godemperor wrote:
30k is actually a lot more than it sounds than an average job in US/EU for 2 reasons:
1. This is 30k of disposable income, since they live in a team house and do not need pay rent or mortgage. Housing cost usually take around a quarter to a third of the total income.
2. Cost of living is lower in korea than the West.
3. Assuming FD and Tester stays in code S, he could get at least another 10k. Not to mention prize form other tournaments.
So 30k could easy equal to a lot more.
This
30K is actually a big sum when you take off cost of mortgage/rent, heating, electricity, food (I'm pretty sure), etc... That actually accounts for the majority of expenses for the majority of people. Just being in code S earns > $1000 bucks already, so someone like tester that could average a round of 8 appearance, that's already another 15K right there, and that's not including sums from other tournaments, like godemperor mentioned.
Basically they're getting ~ 45K per year of EXTRA SPENDING CASH. That's a pretty goddamn big sum, especially in korea
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So that's without having to pay rent or utilities or food. Pretty awesome.
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I thought that this was about the TSL3 lol =[ I am disappointed but it's nice that the korean SC2 teams are getting more serious :D
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On March 14 2011 14:55 FXOpen wrote:I've been paying my players a salary since December..... Gotta love media
i know right... western scene definitely ahead of korea in that regard... :s
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On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year
You make it sound easy...
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Wow does that mean someone is actually paying Rain to play SC2?
What a waste of cash...I assumed he would get a real job since he obviously wouldn't be winning anything more.
All player bashing aside, this is great news for (the rest of) TSL and eSports in general. Most of the players are extremely deserving.
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Damn the living standards and wages are high in south korea as well. Like same level of welfare as scandinavia.
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I work a 9-5 at a job I hate making less than that. I will have no sympathy for anyone who says that paying a 17 year-old $30K a year to play videogames all week is too low... Hell if I get good enough to make televised matches, I'll do it for the room and board, no problem.
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On March 15 2011 01:16 Rob28 wrote:
I work a 9-5 at a job I hate making less than that. I will have no sympathy for anyone who says that paying a 17 year-old $30K a year to play videogames all week is too low... Hell if I get good enough to make televised matches, I'll do it for the room and board, no problem.
it's low considering that only a very small percentile of the population is as good at sc2 as them. (granted a small % play sc2 at all)
by the way, cost of living in korea is high.
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On March 14 2011 22:35 Zocat wrote:
And I think it's fairly obvious that the news is about SC2 teams, not BW/ other games.
To the discussion "other teams surely pay as well" - how much? We know basically nothing about how much the western esports players get. In most cases it's even speculation that they anything at all (can anyone link me a source that says Liquid pays it's players?).
So to FXOpen from p1:
Where can we read up how much your 2 top players earn? Because you could as well pay them 100$ a month (you mentioned something like "more than average" average what? BW A class salary? BW B class? other esport-games salary? SKorean population average? US average?)
I think you can understand why this is what the media (and most of TL) are interested in, because we finally get some facts. Not speculation & hints.
I agree with this post 100%! I think this is the first time we've seen the actual numbers. That's probably why it's newsworthy.
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Thought SlayerS would have salaries since they got Intel and Razer at their back.
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i think they meant first team to have salaries that you could live on?
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Releasing salaries is only a lure for a team. If I released my salary cap, and how much each player was being paid, I assume people who try to take my players (as I have done in the past also)... So the end story is. I dont think its wise for anyone to release such information unless they actually are looking for players.
The media is used in many ways, and this looks like a good means for picking up some more good players. The problem is, there are plenty of other korean teams who do not disclose their salary caps. So it may backfire.
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1) TSL (Team SCV Life) will become the first StarCraft 2 Team to give salary to it's players. The first payday will be on April 10th.
? Mousesports pays salary to its StarCraft 2 Team since it exists.
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On March 14 2011 15:02 godemperor wrote:
30k is actually a lot more than it sounds than an average job in US/EU for 2 reasons:
1. This is 30k of disposable income, since they live in a team house and do not need pay rent or mortgage. Housing cost usually take around a quarter to a third of the total income.
2. Cost of living is lower in korea than the West.
3. Assuming FD and Tester stays in code S, he could get at least another 10k. Not to mention prize form other tournaments.
So 30k could easy equal to a lot more.
Point 1 and 2 cancel each other out.
youre right about 3 though.
anyways, great news.
THIS IS HUGE!
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Really not bad! A good start and maybe they'll be paid more as this creates precedence!
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On March 15 2011 01:55 Torte de Lini wrote:
Really not bad! A good start and maybe they'll be paid more as this creates precedence!
Am I the only one that dislikes this kind of action?
Getting paid per win, aka freelance style, seems like a better route. Down the road we might see players, like in the NBA/NHL etc..., who don't have as much motivation or determination to succeed and who don't actually deserve getting paid that much money for their lacking contributions.
The precedence also puts pressure on manufacturers to either increases prices or make products more cheaply, which would hurt the average gamer and spectator.
All this, not to mention the fanatic and zealous sell-out mentality of the pro-esports following makes me a bit weary of the foundation and birth of this 'industry'.
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Try not to forget guys, the team also provides lodging/food/etc. Not to mention this salary does not include any other revenue. FD has already made 90k+ just from GSL alone (can't say on other tournaments). He also may have recieved other endorsments, donations, etc.
I wouldn't be suprised if some of the top players like FD are pulling around 150k U.S.D. Thats pretty dam good for the 1st year of SC2
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i think that 31k is more than enough. AWESOME ! I think they deserve this they work really hard.
but are they really 1st ?
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31k + room + at least partial board + prize winnings + endorsements
You guys really need to stop focusing on the salary and ignoring all the other benefits.
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On March 15 2011 02:29 NIIINO wrote:
i think that 31k is more than enough. AWESOME ! I think they deserve this they work really hard.
but are they really 1st ?
In Korea probably... . They think that sc is played professionally only in Korea and so it's not necessary to contain the statement.
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On March 15 2011 00:44 ffadicted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:02 godemperor wrote:
30k is actually a lot more than it sounds than an average job in US/EU for 2 reasons:
1. This is 30k of disposable income, since they live in a team house and do not need pay rent or mortgage. Housing cost usually take around a quarter to a third of the total income.
2. Cost of living is lower in korea than the West.
3. Assuming FD and Tester stays in code S, he could get at least another 10k. Not to mention prize form other tournaments.
So 30k could easy equal to a lot more. This 30K is actually a big sum when you take off cost of mortgage/rent, heating, electricity, food (I'm pretty sure), etc... That actually accounts for the majority of expenses for the majority of people. Just being in code S earns > $1000 bucks already, so someone like tester that could average a round of 8 appearance, that's already another 15K right there, and that's not including sums from other tournaments, like godemperor mentioned. Basically they're getting ~ 45K per year of EXTRA SPENDING CASH. That's a pretty goddamn big sum, especially in korea
Yep. Imagine you have 30k + prize money (which can be very high depending on how well you perform) left over AFTER you've covered your housing and most of food costs. Do note that 30k is not a great, but still respectable income for people who actually have to cover their own entire living expenses in South Korea. I would call that a luxury. Most of those kids are middle school/high school dropouts in late teens.
It's true that the starcraft progaming scene is very competitive, but preparing for the college entrance exam in South Korea is also an extremely grueling process where the majority of kids stay after school until late evening for extra studying sessions and then go to prep schools, only to return home midnight or later to take care of their homework. Doing pretty well on that entrance exam to graduate from a decent university doesn't necessarily guarantee finding an ok job either. This is probably why progaming is considered as a legitimate profession in Korea even by many parents.
Also, I keep hearing 80 hours and how it's not worth working that much for "merely" 30k, but it's not like they're required to strictly practice 80 hours per week. Fruitdealer especially probably doesn't put in hours anywhere close to that figure these days. You get up around 1pm, play starcraft for the rest of the day while taking some breaks to eat, browse online, go exercise or drinking until you go to sleep around 3-4am. I'd say that sounds a little different from working at a construction site for 80 hours per week.
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Good news, but certainly not the first, FXO, EG, Liquid, Mouz, all pay their players salaries.
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31k is not a lot compared to what you could make doing a regular job. However, the point is that it's still a nice amount of money when you look at what you are doing. Playing Starcraft all day and getting paid to do something you love, and being able to live off of it, is worth more than a top salary.
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On March 15 2011 01:55 Torte de Lini wrote:
Really not bad! A good start and maybe they'll be paid more as this creates precedence!
It's all nice, but what precedence are you talking about? It's not like CS or WC3 didn't/don't have players with salaries. Not to mention BW, which sc2 is FAR behind.
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I initially read this as "Team Liquid Starleague" to become first sc2 team with player salaries :p
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I've been paying my players a salary since December..... Gotta love media
correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think your salary can even compare to TSL's (good salary + housing/food)
i doubt any of your players are getting 5 figures for salary... I can pay a team 100$ salary and call it a salary but cmon, lets get real
so until foreign sponsors start paying for housing + food and give at least 5 figure salaries.. this dosen't even compare and is a huge step for sc2 to become "as big" as bw
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lets see 31000 usd coupled with living transportation and meals...thats a pretty hefty pay with perks included.
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Kind of expectable to see pro gaming team members in SC2 getting paid reasonable salary - if I remember correctly, that was usual in BW. People need to be able to making a living out of gaming if they dedicate their whole life to it just as others have their job in whatever profession. Good news though, TSL won't be the only team.
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On March 15 2011 03:12 Darpa wrote:
Good news, but certainly not the first, FXO, EG, Liquid, Mouz, all pay their players salaries.
Im sure every FXO player is getting 30k a year, no problem.
While I agree the thread title is wrong the difference in salary is probably huge.
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On March 14 2011 14:46 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year pretty mediocre when its 80 hours a week though, hopefully it rises in a year or 2
yea but its playing a game and they get money when they win tornuments and they probely get a bonus for winning also but 31,000 is a start im sure it will rise but itll take more than 2 years.
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I assumed all the major teams already had salaries
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I don't understand all of the people saying 31,000$/year isn't a high enough salary for doing something you've always dreamed of doing.
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Amazing, now the scene is getting serious. That`s basic salary plus what they win at the GSL, it`s very encouraging. It`s not the 250 000k a year Bisu and Flash makes, but with more exposure, we`re getting there. Most of these guys are quite young so i mean, getting that kind of money and having the chance to win 50 000k per months is gonna push people into the scene.
Good news all in all. .....oh and CLide should get a muthafuckin pay raise ahahhaah.
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To put things into perspective...
In Korea, one of the best companies such as Samsung offer 20k~30k as starting. You work ridiculous hours on it as well. Samsung is the dream job of every Korean man. The rumor is that its 1.5x to 2x the expected salary.
Minimum wage is around $3.5 ish /h. Though some jobs pay you even lower.
If you are under 30 making 30k I think this is incredible in Korea ^^
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Excluding Brood War, 30k is a lot of money. A minimum wage in U.S. for the year is 11k. So, the sc2 gamers are roughly making 3 times as more, if we include lodging, travel, and food costs.
I don't think the foreign teams come close to playing its players. I would venture to guess it's around 7k or so for the good players.
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I don't understand all these people saying that these people are being paid to have fun. I think many people who have delved into pro-gaming have stated that it's often the furthest thing from "fun". Playing casually certainly may be fun, but when you're playing the same exact game on the exact same maps over and over again for upwards of 8-hours a day with the pressure of knowing that your livelihood depends on producing results in an extremely competitive environment, it quickly stops being "fun" and becomes no different from any other mundane job.
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On March 15 2011 04:04 cive wrote:
To put things into perspective...
In Korea, one of the best companies such as Samsung offer 20k~30k as starting. You work ridiculous hours on it as well. Samsung is the dream job of every Korean man. The rumor is that its 1.5x to 2x the expected salary.
Minimum wage is around $3.5 ish /h. Though some jobs pay you even lower.
If you are under 30 making 30k I think this is incredible in Korea ^^
Especially if you have your entire housing/transportation expense and most of food costs covered with someone else doing all the housework already.
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On March 15 2011 03:48 duckducktiM wrote:correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think your salary can even compare to TSL's (good salary + housing/food) i doubt any of your players are getting 5 figures for salary... I can pay a team 100$ salary and call it a salary but cmon, lets get real so until foreign sponsors start paying for housing + food and give at least 5 figure salaries.. this dosen't even compare and is a huge step for sc2 to become "as big" as bw
FXO puts some serious money into their esports projects, also he said that he's paying "above avarage", whatever that means
and FXO is actually setting up a team house that outclasses the korean apartments with 20 players in them pretty hard as far as i know:
"FXOpen e-Sports TEAM HOUSE. We have found a property, its already owned by our company. It’s a large house just outside of Kuala Lumpur. It is the complete opposite of a Korean team house and is a more comfortable environment. We are now waiting for the occupants to move to their new place in the next 12 months (FXOMonarch is currently occupying it). If something changes in the company, this may change."
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196471
also didn't TLO say in an interview some time ago (the one with TaKe when he returned to germany?) that the money he gets actually is in the 4digit area (monthly)
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Why everyone is thinking that it's only fun? It is hard work. You have a full and strict scheudule. They can't sleep until 3 PM and play just for fun, check teamliquid and skip some games if they need a break. You are always under success pressure and have to represent your team in a good way in front of the media.
Of course if that is your dream and thats the thing you want to do then it's fun. But compare it to any other job, it's the same thing.
And there are no limits in salary in that kind of business. Compared to football player it is an awkward salary and they are also just "have fun".
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FXO pays well. Knowing optik for a while he let me knew at least what he made.
Of course FXO isnt going to disclose what they pay... then everyone that wants that player can just dish out the money for him. His answer is the perfect reason why it was even bad for TSL to release there payroll
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On March 15 2011 04:54 loklok wrote:
Why everyone is thinking that it's only fun? It is hard work. You have a full and strict scheudule. They can't sleep until 3 PM and play just for fun, check teamliquid and skip some games if they need a break. You are always under success pressure and have to represent your team in a good way in front of the media.
Of course if that is your dream and thats the thing you want to do then it's fun. But compare it to any other job, it's the same thing.
And there are no limits in salary in that kind of business. Compared to football player they it is an awkward salary and they are also just "have fun".
They don't have a full and strict schedule though. BW professionals may have had those, but the SC2 scene seems to be much more relaxed at this point. I've heard quite a few people who were involved with BW and now SC2 saying that they're thankful that the SC2 progaming environment isn't as spartan as it was in BW. Judging by browsing through playxp forums and watching those team house tours by Artosis, it looks like each player has his own schedule in when to wake up, practice, and go to bed for the most part. With that said, I'm sure they are indeed under a lot of pressure to succeed.
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31k US Dollars seem to be quite much in Korea because i think the wages are not as high as they are in Europe or in the US.Or is 31k a normal payment for koreans?
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The thing to remember is while this is a salary, the teams were already paying for living expenses.
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On March 15 2011 05:33 TelV wrote:
31k US Dollars seem to be quite much in Korea because i think the wages are not as high as they are in Europe or in the US.Or is 31k a normal payment for koreans?
In Brood War, Flash is getting 250k a year. Bisu 200k a year. Jaedong 220k a year...
The vagues in SC2 are still a joke comparing to Brood War.
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On March 15 2011 05:41 Gentleman7 wrote:
The thing to remember is while this is a salary, the teams were already paying for living expenses.
^this is pretty important. 31K plus Code S status (and any other tourneys) plus strongly reduced living costs.
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On March 15 2011 05:02 Noxie wrote:
FXO pays well. Knowing optik for a while he let me knew at least what he made.
Of course FXO isnt going to disclose what they pay... then everyone that wants that player can just dish out the money for him. His answer is the perfect reason why it was even bad for TSL to release there payroll
Unless they're hoping that they're paying more than others can and they want to poach top players.
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On March 15 2011 06:04 DirtYLOu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 05:33 TelV wrote:
31k US Dollars seem to be quite much in Korea because i think the wages are not as high as they are in Europe or in the US.Or is 31k a normal payment for koreans? In Brood War, Flash is getting 250k a year. Bisu 200k a year. Jaedong 220k a year... The vagues in SC2 are still a joke comparing to Brood War.
Do you even know what you're talking about?
Do you have ANY IDEA the dropoff from those 3 versus your typical A-Class player? Never mention the B-Teamers that don't even get paid.
Please don't take the 3 highest earning players and then compare that to the entire e-sports scene as a whole.
Dont be this ignorant.
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I know office workers in SK who make less.
31k a year isn't a joke. And as people keep mentioning (though it's largely being ignored)...thats 30-31k of disposable income.
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On March 15 2011 06:11 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 06:04 DirtYLOu wrote:On March 15 2011 05:33 TelV wrote:
31k US Dollars seem to be quite much in Korea because i think the wages are not as high as they are in Europe or in the US.Or is 31k a normal payment for koreans? In Brood War, Flash is getting 250k a year. Bisu 200k a year. Jaedong 220k a year... The vagues in SC2 are still a joke comparing to Brood War. Do you even know what you're talking about? Do you have ANY IDEA the dropoff from those 3 versus your typical A-Class player? Never mention the B-Teamers that don't even get paid. Please don't take the 3 highest earning players and then compare that to the entire e-sports scene as a whole. Dont be this ignorant.
Almost every A-teamer (outside ACE) gets paid more than Tester and FD are getting now. Even players like Calm are getting paid over 100K.
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On March 15 2011 06:46 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 06:11 ch33psh33p wrote:On March 15 2011 06:04 DirtYLOu wrote:On March 15 2011 05:33 TelV wrote:
31k US Dollars seem to be quite much in Korea because i think the wages are not as high as they are in Europe or in the US.Or is 31k a normal payment for koreans? In Brood War, Flash is getting 250k a year. Bisu 200k a year. Jaedong 220k a year... The vagues in SC2 are still a joke comparing to Brood War. Do you even know what you're talking about? Do you have ANY IDEA the dropoff from those 3 versus your typical A-Class player? Never mention the B-Teamers that don't even get paid. Please don't take the 3 highest earning players and then compare that to the entire e-sports scene as a whole. Dont be this ignorant. Almost every A-teamer (outside ACE) gets paid more than Tester and FD are getting now. Even players like Calm are getting paid over 100K.
Thats more than 100% less than the top S-class players he mentioned.
Sure you can say BW wages are higher, but there's no reason to suggest everyone gets paid 200k.
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On March 15 2011 06:04 DirtYLOu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 05:33 TelV wrote:
31k US Dollars seem to be quite much in Korea because i think the wages are not as high as they are in Europe or in the US.Or is 31k a normal payment for koreans? In Brood War, Flash is getting 250k a year. Bisu 200k a year. Jaedong 220k a year... The vagues in SC2 are still a joke comparing to Brood War.
The joke that is less than 1 years old already has a team paying 30k salary. Sponsors starting to realize how big these team gets expose to foreigner scene. As far as i know, gomtv crashed last night because the amount of traffic it was receiving outside of korea.
Also, BenQ just announce it is now the official sponsor of Startales too. http://www.playxp.com/news/read.php?news_id=2681571 for their showing on IEM most likely.
SC2 will slowly grow with team bringing top notch sponsorship especially with heart of the swarms arround next year too. Higher salary will become imminent to players for better showing.
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Wow... Very good very good!!! :D
Slowly with this SC2 will become even more popular!!!
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On March 15 2011 06:46 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 06:11 ch33psh33p wrote:On March 15 2011 06:04 DirtYLOu wrote:On March 15 2011 05:33 TelV wrote:
31k US Dollars seem to be quite much in Korea because i think the wages are not as high as they are in Europe or in the US.Or is 31k a normal payment for koreans? In Brood War, Flash is getting 250k a year. Bisu 200k a year. Jaedong 220k a year... The vagues in SC2 are still a joke comparing to Brood War. Do you even know what you're talking about? Do you have ANY IDEA the dropoff from those 3 versus your typical A-Class player? Never mention the B-Teamers that don't even get paid. Please don't take the 3 highest earning players and then compare that to the entire e-sports scene as a whole. Dont be this ignorant. Almost every A-teamer (outside ACE) gets paid more than Tester and FD are getting now. Even players like Calm are getting paid over 100K.
And they should be... for one, there is far more money in tournaments in SC2 then SC:BW.
and 2nd: dude, BW has been around for 10+ years, SC2 for 6 months. I would hope BW players that are established are getting payed more
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On March 15 2011 06:47 deerpark87 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 06:04 DirtYLOu wrote:On March 15 2011 05:33 TelV wrote:
31k US Dollars seem to be quite much in Korea because i think the wages are not as high as they are in Europe or in the US.Or is 31k a normal payment for koreans? In Brood War, Flash is getting 250k a year. Bisu 200k a year. Jaedong 220k a year... The vagues in SC2 are still a joke comparing to Brood War. The joke that is less than 1 years old already has a team paying 30k salary. Sponsors starting to realize how big these team gets expose to foreigner scene. As far as i know, gomtv crashed last night because the amount of traffic it was receiving outside of korea. Also, BenQ just announce it is now the official sponsor of Startales too. http://www.playxp.com/news/read.php?news_id=2681571 for their showing on IEM most likely. SC2 will slowly grow with team bringing top notch sponsorship especially with heart of the swarms arround next year too. Higher salary will become imminent to players for better showing.
That`s great! If they can get international sponsors because of their showing at IEM, it might open up the Korean SC2 community to the world. Its also potentially drawing a bigger pool of money to Sc 2 than Brood War. It`s great that a team like StarTale recognize that. They just need to give them some english conversation courses and they`re ready to go.
Ahahaha and if all fails for Ace, he always could take the modeling road! Have you seen his face lol. He just need to lose a little facial weight, because he got the facial lines for the work....(no homo o___o)
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That's great to hear, hopefully the other teams sponsor will eventually follow suit. Especially with WCG removing BW I imagine a little more players will switch over to starcraft II, and eventually starcraft II should become mainstream enough for salaries on each team etc. Especially with the publicitiy + Show Spoiler +July vs MC should bring in the finals of this seasons GSL
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Wow that is a LOT of money! Considering it is eSports and this is Korea where the average salary is almost half of the average in USA
Especially with prizes like FruitDealer's $80k something from GSL1, he'll be set for at least 4 years even if he stops being paid from the sponsor, and that's not even considering he might live with his parents and so not have to pay rent.
Edit: wow just realized, yeah they're being paid for to live there too xD so that is a TON of cash!
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I just want to say there's maybe 30 players in BW that make over 30k. Plus the prize winning in BW are smaller right now.
And most people really underestimate how much 30k is when you don't have to pay rent, bills, food, electricity etc. It's a lot of money, and they have about as much spending money as people who make 60-70k a year after they pay their mortgage, car loan etc etc. It is true it's hard to compare the two since the two lifestyles are much different and the gamer one is more conservative.
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On March 15 2011 07:09 frozt_ wrote:That's great to hear, hopefully the other teams sponsor will eventually follow suit. Especially with WCG removing BW I imagine a little more players will switch over to starcraft II, and eventually starcraft II should become mainstream enough for salaries on each team etc. Especially with the publicitiy + Show Spoiler +July vs MC should bring in the finals of this seasons GSL
WCG is basically irrelevant for Korean BW.
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Awesome! I hope TSL's performance improves now. I'm looking forward to FD and Tester come back story.
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United States7481 Posts
On March 15 2011 06:46 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 06:11 ch33psh33p wrote:On March 15 2011 06:04 DirtYLOu wrote:On March 15 2011 05:33 TelV wrote:
31k US Dollars seem to be quite much in Korea because i think the wages are not as high as they are in Europe or in the US.Or is 31k a normal payment for koreans? In Brood War, Flash is getting 250k a year. Bisu 200k a year. Jaedong 220k a year... The vagues in SC2 are still a joke comparing to Brood War. Do you even know what you're talking about? Do you have ANY IDEA the dropoff from those 3 versus your typical A-Class player? Never mention the B-Teamers that don't even get paid. Please don't take the 3 highest earning players and then compare that to the entire e-sports scene as a whole. Dont be this ignorant. Almost every A-teamer (outside ACE) gets paid more than Tester and FD are getting now. Even players like Calm are getting paid over 100K.
as you can see here, that's not even close to true. although there are a significant amount of a-teamers getting paid more than FD and Tester, it's not even close to "almost every". Yes, players still get paid more on BW teams than sc2 teams. But please don't exaggerate to that extent, it discredits you.
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It is pretty annoying people are comparing BW salaries to the salaries FD and tester are getting atm.
BW scene is still bigger then the SC2 scene in korea and it will stay like that for a while until more KR players start switching.
The point is, BW will only get smaller and SC2 can only get bigger at this point.
Also SC2 is officially released for like 7-8 months now? I hope you get my point with this.
They had to check everything out first, what did you expect?
A new game which happens to have the same title as it's older version where the pro's would earn 6digit salaries within the first few months?
give it another year and we will probably start seeing these numbers.
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Hmmmm, really nice for the TSL, they better perform well in the GSTL
Comparing to some salaries in BW, this seems like a really nice way to start off.
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On March 15 2011 05:33 TelV wrote:
31k US Dollars seem to be quite much in Korea because i think the wages are not as high as they are in Europe or in the US.Or is 31k a normal payment for koreans?
I am baffled people still ask questions like this
SK is not a third world country
Go look it up
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Yes!
The redevelopment of paid Korean progaming teams that are in BW (:
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On March 15 2011 04:03 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
Amazing, now the scene is getting serious. That`s basic salary plus what they win at the GSL, it`s very encouraging. It`s not the 250 000k a year Bisu and Flash makes, but with more exposure, we`re getting there. Most of these guys are quite young so i mean, getting that kind of money and having the chance to win 50 000k per months is gonna push people into the scene.
Good news all in all. .....oh and CLide should get a muthafuckin pay raise ahahhaah.
wtf 250k a year? Are you sure???
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On March 15 2011 10:24 Washow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 04:03 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
Amazing, now the scene is getting serious. That`s basic salary plus what they win at the GSL, it`s very encouraging. It`s not the 250 000k a year Bisu and Flash makes, but with more exposure, we`re getting there. Most of these guys are quite young so i mean, getting that kind of money and having the chance to win 50 000k per months is gonna push people into the scene.
Good news all in all. .....oh and CLide should get a muthafuckin pay raise ahahhaah. wtf 250k a year? Are you sure???
Pretty sure Xellos made 200k in 06, nada also made a similar amount. Boxer got a 200k sponsorship, which is sorta the same thing.
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Coach Lee is amazing at SC and at negotiations! Really nice to see the sponsors stepping up even more with 60% increase in sponsorships!
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how much do BW pros get paid?
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On March 14 2011 14:45 aike wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year But considering it's like a 80+ hour a week job... is it really worth it? And yea I do believe a lot of the major foreigner teams pay salaries.
Doing what you love and getting paid = worth it.
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aww shiet!!! awesome!
love fruitdealerrrrrrr
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Oh wow. I'm Korean and I never knew that they get paid so well!
That's like making 500 ~ 600k in US because housing/food/etc is all paid for already. They live in super expensive high rise luxury apartments already since their sponsors are samsung and stuff :p
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On March 15 2011 10:23 ktimekiller wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 05:33 TelV wrote:
31k US Dollars seem to be quite much in Korea because i think the wages are not as high as they are in Europe or in the US.Or is 31k a normal payment for koreans? I am baffled people still ask questions like this SK is not a third world country Go look it up
He's not saying it's a 3rd World Country, he's saying he thought the cost of living was cheaper there (which if I remember correctly it is). There's quite a difference.
OT, this is some pretty cool news. Like others have said in this thread already, SC2 can only really grow from this point. It wasn't going to happen overnight, but this is definitely going to be a game that sticks around for a very long time.
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This is a good step. If we're lucky, other prolific sponsors will start financing more teams so we have a stable league...and then...THE WORLD.
But baby steps first, eh?
On March 15 2011 10:27 MadCatZ wrote:
how much do BW pros get paid?
Nada got paid over $200,000 a year in his heyday, and TBLS get similar salaries IIRC. Lesser players are in the five-digit range, but I imagine Fantasy and Hydra also have solid salaries.
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On March 15 2011 10:03 Antoine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 06:46 setzer wrote:On March 15 2011 06:11 ch33psh33p wrote:On March 15 2011 06:04 DirtYLOu wrote:On March 15 2011 05:33 TelV wrote:
31k US Dollars seem to be quite much in Korea because i think the wages are not as high as they are in Europe or in the US.Or is 31k a normal payment for koreans? In Brood War, Flash is getting 250k a year. Bisu 200k a year. Jaedong 220k a year... The vagues in SC2 are still a joke comparing to Brood War. Do you even know what you're talking about? Do you have ANY IDEA the dropoff from those 3 versus your typical A-Class player? Never mention the B-Teamers that don't even get paid. Please don't take the 3 highest earning players and then compare that to the entire e-sports scene as a whole. Dont be this ignorant. Almost every A-teamer (outside ACE) gets paid more than Tester and FD are getting now. Even players like Calm are getting paid over 100K. as you can see here, that's not even close to true. although there are a significant amount of a-teamers getting paid more than FD and Tester, it's not even close to "almost every". Yes, players still get paid more on BW teams than sc2 teams. But please don't exaggerate to that extent, it discredits you.
For one Milkis even says the information could be completely inaccurate given the credibility of the source. Second, even if all those numbers are true 80% of the salaries listed are more then Tester's. I may have exaggerated a little but you didn't prove I was wrong.
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On March 15 2011 10:24 Washow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 04:03 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
Amazing, now the scene is getting serious. That`s basic salary plus what they win at the GSL, it`s very encouraging. It`s not the 250 000k a year Bisu and Flash makes, but with more exposure, we`re getting there. Most of these guys are quite young so i mean, getting that kind of money and having the chance to win 50 000k per months is gonna push people into the scene.
Good news all in all. .....oh and CLide should get a muthafuckin pay raise ahahhaah. wtf 250k a year? Are you sure???
Flash and Bisu basically DEFINE their teams, I'd hope they would make that much.
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30k is pretty damn good considering the circumstances
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United States7481 Posts
On March 15 2011 10:40 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 10:03 Antoine wrote:On March 15 2011 06:46 setzer wrote:On March 15 2011 06:11 ch33psh33p wrote:On March 15 2011 06:04 DirtYLOu wrote:On March 15 2011 05:33 TelV wrote:
31k US Dollars seem to be quite much in Korea because i think the wages are not as high as they are in Europe or in the US.Or is 31k a normal payment for koreans? In Brood War, Flash is getting 250k a year. Bisu 200k a year. Jaedong 220k a year... The vagues in SC2 are still a joke comparing to Brood War. Do you even know what you're talking about? Do you have ANY IDEA the dropoff from those 3 versus your typical A-Class player? Never mention the B-Teamers that don't even get paid. Please don't take the 3 highest earning players and then compare that to the entire e-sports scene as a whole. Dont be this ignorant. Almost every A-teamer (outside ACE) gets paid more than Tester and FD are getting now. Even players like Calm are getting paid over 100K. as you can see here, that's not even close to true. although there are a significant amount of a-teamers getting paid more than FD and Tester, it's not even close to "almost every". Yes, players still get paid more on BW teams than sc2 teams. But please don't exaggerate to that extent, it discredits you. For one Milkis even says the information could be completely inaccurate given the credibility of the source. Second, even if all those numbers are true 80% of the salaries listed are more then Tester's. I may have exaggerated a little but you didn't prove I was wrong.
Yes, I did. the linked post has the top 30 KeSPA ranked players. I would say there are 8-9 A-teamers per team on average, and 11 teams, that's 90-100 active A teamers. In that list there are about 25 people making more than Tester. That's not "almost every A-teamer". In addition, the information directly contradicts your claim that Calm is getting paid over 100k. Finally, if you claim that my numbers are inaccurate, please post contradictory information from a good source, since yes the credibility of Milkis's source is questionable.
To link it once again for those asking again, here are the salaries of the top 30 KesPA rank progamers last August.
Back on topic, congrats once again to Coach Lee for lining this up with the sponsors, and to the players on the team. Definitely a good step forward towards sustainable pro SC2 in Korea.
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On March 15 2011 10:28 Washow wrote:
Oh wow. I'm Korean and I never knew that they get paid so well!
That's like making 500 ~ 600k in US because housing/food/etc is all paid for already. They live in super expensive high rise luxury apartments already since their sponsors are samsung and stuff :p
Anytime we have a discussion about salaries we have people making ridiculous comments about the disparity in the cost of living between Korea and other western countries. Equivalent of 500 ~ 600k? I'm going to hope you meant 50K to 60K. Also, you can't just compare numbers because tax rates are different for every single country (and every single state if you live in the US). I used to make less in Korea than I did in the States, but my disposable income was higher - as I received better tax benefits in Korea.
Like anywhere else in the world, if you want to live off of ramen, drink cheap alcohol and buy cheap clothes you are going to be able to last a long time on 30k a year. If, however, you want to buy yourself some decent clothes and eat some decent food, it won't be quite enough.
Let's stop the blanket statements comparing different countries.. it's too hard to do that. However, having worked in Korea for the past 5 years now, and from what I hear from friends and entry level colleagues, I think it's safe to say that the amount FD and Trickster receive are about average entry level salaries for large companies. (However, large companies also offer lots of fringe benefits that pro-gamers might not receive, so in the end.. it's hard to compare anything)
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I am baffled people still ask questions like this
SK is not a third world country
Go look it up
On average, they still make almost only half of what the average USA citizen makes.
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You can't compare them 1:1 like that........
Also GDP is skewed for US quite a bit because of hundreds of billionaires in US
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Hey, you guys know who else pays for rent/food/all basic needs AND gives you a decent salary? The Military. It's like 80+ hours a week of work just like progamming, and shooting guns is fun! Let's all go join up! :D
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Watch out for TSL in the future Coach Lee has the power of corndogs on his side.
(to anyone who has watches Hyungjoon becomes a progamer you will know what I mean).
On topic though Im not surprised that TSL is one of the first because they've done well and have players who are fan favorites such as Fruitdealer and CLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE!
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Great News to Hear, SC2 can only grow ^_^
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If I were paid $30,000, given a house to sleep in, food to eat, and people to live with all sharing a common interest...
<3
Sure, the pressure might be ridiculously over-bearing, but I would just suck it up >.>
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This is so cool I hope other teams follow. I think this will make up for the drop in prize money that gsl has been doing, not including the championship.
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On March 14 2011 14:46 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:43 Nuri wrote:
wow not bad getting 31k usd just to play sc2 per year pretty mediocre when its 80 hours a week though, hopefully it rises in a year or 2
ya, but that's not counting personal sponsors and ad revenues you can make on the side. and of course tournament pay-outs. doesn't seem to shabby... so long as you're a top player.;
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Hmm about the salaries. Pro gamers don't have to pay for rent/food right? The team gives them that for free right? If that is correct then 31K is pretty damn good after rent/food.
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Also, the cost of living in Korea in a normal setting is much less than in the US and other countries, especially if the housing and food expense is shared between a dozen of people
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On March 15 2011 01:33 JiYan wrote:
i think they meant first team to have salaries that you could live on?
No, most Korean teams don't pay their players (actually all, as this is the first one), the money iirc goes to a communal thing to buy food and of course pay utilities and rent, and the players are given an allowance essentially, but not a salary.
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congrats to torch ^^. you gotta understand that the 30k is money. none of it will go towards cost of living because they live in a teamhouse. add in the fact that they have consistent tournies to enter, and hey, its not a job its starcraft! id love to be paid 30k a year and free food/housing to play sc2 all day!
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On March 15 2011 12:29 SupastaR wrote:
congrats to torch ^^. you gotta understand that the 30k is money. none of it will go towards cost of living because they live in a teamhouse. add in the fact that they have consistent tournies to enter, and hey, its not a job its starcraft! id love to be paid 30k a year and free food/housing to play sc2 all day!
TorcH is on Startale....
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On March 15 2011 11:08 Washow wrote:
You can't compare them 1:1 like that........
Also GDP is skewed for US quite a bit because of hundreds of billionaires in US
Lol, you think that having massive amounts of wealth in the hands of the few is a problem limited to the US. Your making this stuff up, the cost of living in SK is significantly lower than that of the US, and on average a Sk makes quite a bit less(hence the lower CoL). 31k+Housing+Food is a very good deal for some 20-25 year olds.
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What I was always wondering is, do players actually get to keep their winnings?
I assume big name players do. But majority of the players are investment for the teams. So I would wonder, would Jinro, Moonglade or Huk keep at least 50% of the prize money is they win GSL? Personally I don't think they will, which is sad  .
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On March 15 2011 12:38 feanor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 11:08 Washow wrote:
You can't compare them 1:1 like that........
Also GDP is skewed for US quite a bit because of hundreds of billionaires in US Lol, you think that having massive amounts of wealth in the hands of the few is a problem limited to the US. Your making this stuff up, the cost of living in SK is significantly lower than that of the US, and on average a Sk makes quite a bit less(hence the lower CoL). 31k+Housing+Food is a very good deal for some 20-25 year olds.
from what grrrr told me, it's not cheaper at all to live in SK
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Hey guys, I just want to make this clear, because there's a lot of misconception regarding this.
South Korea is a highly highly developed country, easily one of the fifteen most developed countries in the world (actually widely considered to be ranked 10th-15th) along with nations like NA (no Mexico), Northern Europe, Japan, and Australia.
The cost and standard of living in Korea is very high and comparable to that of any other urban first world country. The Seoul area is especially notoriously expensive.
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How's the housing market in SK? In the Toronto area in Canada, if you want a house within 75km of the city you are looking at 500k+. A townhouse/condo closer to downtown will run you 300k+ minimum.
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That's a pretty damn good $alary, especially since the ultimate goal is to win one (or a few) of the big tournaments anyway.
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BoxeR still makes like 400k a year excluding tournaments, right?
31k seems low, but I'm sure the exchange rate makes that amount pretty damn fair in korea. Also, they probably have paid-for housing, utilities, and food.
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On March 14 2011 14:48 oncearunner wrote:
^^heh its "80" hours a week but its palyng a video game. time flies when ur having fun
imagine being the assistant manager at my restaurant working 70 hours a week on salary
You're also melting your brain/eyes/nerves all along.
Just try to play 11 hours a day of SC2 and enjoy the symptoms you'll get (blurry vision, intense headaches, nausea, back pain, tetany attacks, tremor, etc)
If half of your salary is there just to cover the extensive amount of medical care you'll need to go thru, I say it's not worth the hassle.
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On March 15 2011 12:52 chenchen wrote:
Hey guys, I just want to make this clear, because there's a lot of misconception regarding this.
South Korea is a highly highly developed country, easily one of the fifteen most developed countries in the world (actually widely considered to be ranked 10th-15th) along with nations like NA (no Mexico), Northern Europe, Japan, and Australia.
The cost and standard of living in Korea is very high and comparable to that of any other urban first world country. The Seoul area is especially notoriously expensive.
Thank god the team picks up their food and board! If they didn't, they might have no money considering all those drinking binges/shopping sprees that pro gamers are renown for.
But seriously, they have nothing to actually spend the money on, besides luxuries. 30k of disposable income is perfectly fine, even if you live in a very expensive city.
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On March 15 2011 23:54 C5Five wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:48 oncearunner wrote:
^^heh its "80" hours a week but its palyng a video game. time flies when ur having fun
imagine being the assistant manager at my restaurant working 70 hours a week on salary You're also melting your brain/eyes/nerves all along. Just try to play 11 hours a day of SC2 and enjoy the symptoms you'll get (blurry vision, intense headaches, nausea, back pain, tetany attacks, tremor, etc) If half of your salary is there just to cover the extensive amount of medical care you'll need to go thru, I say it's not worth the hassle.
Come on, man. Just which progamer has needed an extensive medical care for playing too much game? There's a reason there are many progamers and hopefuls in Korea. It's a worthwhile job for them.
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I thought the cost of living was quite low in SK. Also seem to remeber Huk saying on his stream that food was quite cheap.
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On March 15 2011 23:54 C5Five wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:48 oncearunner wrote:
^^heh its "80" hours a week but its palyng a video game. time flies when ur having fun
imagine being the assistant manager at my restaurant working 70 hours a week on salary You're also melting your brain/eyes/nerves all along. Just try to play 11 hours a day of SC2 and enjoy the symptoms you'll get (blurry vision, intense headaches, nausea, back pain, tetany attacks, tremor, etc) If half of your salary is there just to cover the extensive amount of medical care you'll need to go thru, I say it's not worth the hassle.
I've been playing video games for nearly 19 years now, and quite extensively (For instance during my FFXI binge I played something ridiculous like 250 days in a 4 year time period). That's not even counting my Halo, RA95, AoK, etc. days.
Yes, my eyes have become more near-sighted over the years, but that will happen to anyone who works on a computer for any amount of protracted time (and let's face it -- lots and lots of people work on computers for 8+ hours a day.) Hell, I sit in front of a computer for 12 hours a day at my work (USCG), and then usually for another 6-8 when I get home and for 10+ hours on my days off. My computer is my entertainment system (Music, TV, Movies, Games, etc.). I hardly have any headaches, nausea, back pain (learn how to properly sit and or buy a good chair), tremors, etc.
I am sure being a construction worker or some other menial task-doer is vastly better for you.
If you don't think it's worth the price then say it -- each person has their own subjective values, but to objectively state that you incur loss due to medical expenses later in life because you played a video game is quite laughable. (CTS is quite rare)
As a Radioman it's even worse for me because in my line of work it isn't uncommon to have loss of hearing later in life -- and the military doesn't pay disability for that (And I make ~36k a year as an E-4 with 4 years).
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On March 16 2011 00:48 Sein wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 23:54 C5Five wrote:On March 14 2011 14:48 oncearunner wrote:
^^heh its "80" hours a week but its palyng a video game. time flies when ur having fun
imagine being the assistant manager at my restaurant working 70 hours a week on salary You're also melting your brain/eyes/nerves all along. Just try to play 11 hours a day of SC2 and enjoy the symptoms you'll get (blurry vision, intense headaches, nausea, back pain, tetany attacks, tremor, etc) If half of your salary is there just to cover the extensive amount of medical care you'll need to go thru, I say it's not worth the hassle. Come on, man. Just which progamer has needed an extensive medical care for playing too much game? There's a reason there are many progamers and hopefuls in Korea. It's a worthwhile job for them.
tlo doesnt have serious wrist problems or anything right?
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On March 16 2011 01:18 Wegandi wrote:
I've been playing video games for nearly 19 years now, and quite extensively (For instance during my FFXI binge I played something ridiculous like 250 days in a 4 year time period). That's not even counting my Halo, RA95, AoK, etc. days.
Yes, my eyes have become more near-sighted over the years, but that will happen to anyone who works on a computer for any amount of protracted time (and let's face it -- lots and lots of people work on computers for 8+ hours a day.) Hell, I sit in front of a computer for 12 hours a day at my work (USCG), and then usually for another 6-8 when I get home and for 10+ hours on my days off. My computer is my entertainment system (Music, TV, Movies, Games, etc.). I hardly have any headaches, nausea, back pain (learn how to properly sit and or buy a good chair), tremors, etc.
I am sure being a construction worker or some other menial task-doer is vastly better for you.
If you don't think it's worth the price then say it -- each person has their own subjective values, but to objectively state that you incur loss due to medical expenses later in life because you played a video game is quite laughable. (CTS is quite rare)
As a Radioman it's even worse for me because in my line of work it isn't uncommon to have loss of hearing later in life -- and the military doesn't pay disability for that (And I make ~36k a year as an E-4 with 4 years).
Yeah, at work, watching tabs or text. Everyone can read a screen for hours without problems.
Remaining focused on a game like SC2 or even a shooter for instance for several hours WILL fuck you up.
Try it one day. Play from like 4 pm to 2 am without interruption (maybe only for bio and eating). I'd love to hear how many painkillers you'll have to ingest to calm that intense brain ache.
It also engraves patterns into your muscles. Ever noticed that little callus most people using computers have at the base of their hands ? Yeah, that. Why do you think moving your hand in the opposite direction feels so "weird" ?
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On March 15 2011 12:52 chenchen wrote:
Hey guys, I just want to make this clear, because there's a lot of misconception regarding this.
South Korea is a highly highly developed country, easily one of the fifteen most developed countries in the world (actually widely considered to be ranked 10th-15th) along with nations like NA (no Mexico), Northern Europe, Japan, and Australia.
The cost and standard of living in Korea is very high and comparable to that of any other urban first world country. The Seoul area is especially notoriously expensive.
South korea is ranked #33 in terms of GDP per capita according to the international monetary fund (2010) with $20165. US is $47,132 at 9th, Australia $54,869 at 6th. So yea, you are quite wrong..
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Are people really questioning that South Korea is a developed nation? It's a G-20 economy and one of the most tech-oriented countries that there is. Seriously, I would be blown the fuck away if Seoul, South Korea wasn't one of the most expensive cities in the world.
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Isn't the average Korean still making less than 20k USD per year? I'd say making 30k to play video games is pretty good, regardless of the "long hours" required to stay at the top level.
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On March 18 2011 10:16 C5Five wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 01:18 Wegandi wrote:
I've been playing video games for nearly 19 years now, and quite extensively (For instance during my FFXI binge I played something ridiculous like 250 days in a 4 year time period). That's not even counting my Halo, RA95, AoK, etc. days.
Yes, my eyes have become more near-sighted over the years, but that will happen to anyone who works on a computer for any amount of protracted time (and let's face it -- lots and lots of people work on computers for 8+ hours a day.) Hell, I sit in front of a computer for 12 hours a day at my work (USCG), and then usually for another 6-8 when I get home and for 10+ hours on my days off. My computer is my entertainment system (Music, TV, Movies, Games, etc.). I hardly have any headaches, nausea, back pain (learn how to properly sit and or buy a good chair), tremors, etc.
I am sure being a construction worker or some other menial task-doer is vastly better for you.
If you don't think it's worth the price then say it -- each person has their own subjective values, but to objectively state that you incur loss due to medical expenses later in life because you played a video game is quite laughable. (CTS is quite rare)
As a Radioman it's even worse for me because in my line of work it isn't uncommon to have loss of hearing later in life -- and the military doesn't pay disability for that (And I make ~36k a year as an E-4 with 4 years). Yeah, at work, watching tabs or text. Everyone can read a screen for hours without problems. Remaining focused on a game like SC2 or even a shooter for instance for several hours WILL fuck you up. Try it one day. Play from like 4 pm to 2 am without interruption (maybe only for bio and eating). I'd love to hear how many painkillers you'll have to ingest to calm that intense brain ache. It also engraves patterns into your muscles. Ever noticed that little callus most people using computers have at the base of their hands ? Yeah, that. Why do you think moving your hand in the opposite direction feels so "weird" ?
I've done an 8 hour session of SC2 before and I didn't feel any head aches after. Sure it was a bit tiring, but I don't think it was mentally damaging at all. Granted, I don't know how it would feel if you did that everyday, but still I don't see any of the Korean progamers on painkillers.
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On March 18 2011 10:15 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 00:48 Sein wrote:On March 15 2011 23:54 C5Five wrote:On March 14 2011 14:48 oncearunner wrote:
^^heh its "80" hours a week but its palyng a video game. time flies when ur having fun
imagine being the assistant manager at my restaurant working 70 hours a week on salary You're also melting your brain/eyes/nerves all along. Just try to play 11 hours a day of SC2 and enjoy the symptoms you'll get (blurry vision, intense headaches, nausea, back pain, tetany attacks, tremor, etc) If half of your salary is there just to cover the extensive amount of medical care you'll need to go thru, I say it's not worth the hassle. Come on, man. Just which progamer has needed an extensive medical care for playing too much game? There's a reason there are many progamers and hopefuls in Korea. It's a worthwhile job for them. tlo doesnt have serious wrist problems or anything right?
CTS has a very strong genetic predisposition and if it really is CTS, I doubt it's that serious considering he's still playing at the top level and entering many tournaments.
It'd be a rare case anyway EVEN IF playing too much starcraft actually directly caused CTS for TLO. Some football players have wrecked their legs while playing football. Does that mean professional footballers are doing something not worth the risk? Just read the post that I was originally replying to and tell me it isn't vastly exaggerated.
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On March 18 2011 10:29 Turgid wrote:
Are people really questioning that South Korea is a developed nation? It's a G-20 economy and one of the most tech-oriented countries that there is. Seriously, I would be blown the fuck away if Seoul, South Korea wasn't one of the most expensive cities in the world.
No one is questioning the first world nature of S korea. People are just pointing out that the average S korean makes considerably less than countries where the majority of the TL viewership resides. Hence it is safe to assume there is a disparity in the purchasing power of $30k USD.
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Congrats to TSL and their coach. They're really fortunate to secure funding. I'm sure their salaries aren't the only money they'll be seeing this year. Now that they don't need to worry about money and can focus entirely on Starcraft I'm certain they'll get a lot better! Probably will increase team morale a lot as well.
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On March 14 2011 15:49 Doraemon wrote:
30,000 USD is quite substantial when you factor in the cost of living in korea is considerably cheaper than any western countries. albeit the clock in 80 hours a week, the salary i believe would be equivalent of 60,000USD if you were living in the states.
You need to do some research! Seoul is one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in. Much more expensive than most cities in the west.
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On March 14 2011 15:13 nokz88 wrote:
Hm, as I suspected, there seems to be a number of foreign teams that pay their players salaries. But both articles put a strong emphasis on "first". Maybe they mean "first korean SC2 team"?
I don't think foreign teams pay their players much. Maybe 5k/year for Idra, which is probably one of the highest paid foreign players.
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On March 14 2011 15:23 Alphaes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:20 kagemucha wrote:On March 14 2011 15:13 ch33psh33p wrote:On March 14 2011 15:08 Backpack wrote:On March 14 2011 14:55 FXOpen wrote:I've been paying my players a salary since December..... Gotta love media Pretty sure liquid and EG also pay salaries... No idea where this article is coming from How much, FXOBoss? Yes, how much? :D I doubt he'll say. It's apparently taboo to disclose that sort of info, at least in the western e-sport scene.
The reason foreign players don't disclose their salary is because it's low, maybe a few thousands/year for players like Idra; the rest of players maybe 2k from endorsement. Based on the fact that he trains 10hrs/day and only won $800 bucks from IEM. This just shows you how much they get pay compared to their tournament winnings. Generally, people don't disclose their earnings unless they make more money compared to others in the same profession. It's not taboo at all.
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On March 15 2011 23:54 C5Five wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:48 oncearunner wrote:
^^heh its "80" hours a week but its palyng a video game. time flies when ur having fun
imagine being the assistant manager at my restaurant working 70 hours a week on salary You're also melting your brain/eyes/nerves all along. Just try to play 11 hours a day of SC2 and enjoy the symptoms you'll get (blurry vision, intense headaches, nausea, back pain, tetany attacks, tremor, etc) If half of your salary is there just to cover the extensive amount of medical care you'll need to go thru, I say it's not worth the hassle.
... it's called proper posture dood.
If I went out to chop wood for an hour every day I would easily f*ck up my shoulders, back, wrists etc. pretty quickly as well if pretended to be a hunched troll.
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On March 14 2011 15:58 Cedstick wrote:SK has cheaper living costs than in North America -- I personally can't compare to the EU -- and they already have their room, board, and supposed food paid for, so 31k is actually pretty damn good. Until you disclose specifics, stop trying to turn this in to your thread
Until you disclose the cost of living comparison between South Korea and the states, don't post assumptions. If you said rural SK, then it might be true; but Seoul and the surrounding region have one of the highest cost of living in the world according to most studies.
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Such good news! Can't wait to see more teams follow (assuming Starcraft 2 goes on to have a healthy lifespan)
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On March 18 2011 12:01 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 10:16 C5Five wrote:On March 16 2011 01:18 Wegandi wrote:
I've been playing video games for nearly 19 years now, and quite extensively (For instance during my FFXI binge I played something ridiculous like 250 days in a 4 year time period). That's not even counting my Halo, RA95, AoK, etc. days.
Yes, my eyes have become more near-sighted over the years, but that will happen to anyone who works on a computer for any amount of protracted time (and let's face it -- lots and lots of people work on computers for 8+ hours a day.) Hell, I sit in front of a computer for 12 hours a day at my work (USCG), and then usually for another 6-8 when I get home and for 10+ hours on my days off. My computer is my entertainment system (Music, TV, Movies, Games, etc.). I hardly have any headaches, nausea, back pain (learn how to properly sit and or buy a good chair), tremors, etc.
I am sure being a construction worker or some other menial task-doer is vastly better for you.
If you don't think it's worth the price then say it -- each person has their own subjective values, but to objectively state that you incur loss due to medical expenses later in life because you played a video game is quite laughable. (CTS is quite rare)
As a Radioman it's even worse for me because in my line of work it isn't uncommon to have loss of hearing later in life -- and the military doesn't pay disability for that (And I make ~36k a year as an E-4 with 4 years). Yeah, at work, watching tabs or text. Everyone can read a screen for hours without problems. Remaining focused on a game like SC2 or even a shooter for instance for several hours WILL fuck you up. Try it one day. Play from like 4 pm to 2 am without interruption (maybe only for bio and eating). I'd love to hear how many painkillers you'll have to ingest to calm that intense brain ache. It also engraves patterns into your muscles. Ever noticed that little callus most people using computers have at the base of their hands ? Yeah, that. Why do you think moving your hand in the opposite direction feels so "weird" ? I've done an 8 hour session of SC2 before and I didn't feel any head aches after. Sure it was a bit tiring, but I don't think it was mentally damaging at all. Granted, I don't know how it would feel if you did that everyday, but still I don't see any of the Korean progamers on painkillers.
Big difference between 8 hours of work and play.
Not to mention you not 'seeing' Koreans on painkillers is indicative of absolutely nothing. lmao don't be silly.
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Misunderstanding, nevermind, sorry for post
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On March 14 2011 16:01 bokchoi wrote:
Definitely goes to show how weak SC2 is in Korea in comparison to BW. Hopefully other Korean teams will be able to pick up more sponsors and more sponsors will continue to get involved so SC2 can continue to grow. At this point, it definitely is much more worthwhile to be a foreign (outside of Korea) SC2 player.
I don't think Korean SC2 teams would get sponsor from giant corporations like BW teams do. Simply because of the fight between Blizzard and Korean esport agencies. Most esport organizations and the media in Korea are anti-Blizzard at the moment because of this case. They feel that Blizzard is a blood sucker and won't support the grow of SC2 in Korea. That's the reason the number of SC2 sold in Korea is so low compared to NA and EU.
To tell you the truth, foreign players don't make shit. I have a friend that is a pro and he said that his teammates make less than 2k/year from sponsors and team pay. just look at what shirt foreign players wear compared to Korean players' race-car style jacket with sponsor names (small sponsors) all over the jacket.
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On March 18 2011 14:32 nart wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:58 Cedstick wrote:SK has cheaper living costs than in North America -- I personally can't compare to the EU -- and they already have their room, board, and supposed food paid for, so 31k is actually pretty damn good. On March 14 2011 15:45 FXOpen wrote:I pay above average Until you disclose specifics, stop trying to turn this in to your thread Until you disclose the cost of living comparison between South Korea and the states, don't post assumptions. If you said rural SK, then it might be true; but Seoul and the surrounding region have one of the highest cost of living in the world according to most studies.
Bolded parts for irony. How can you ask someone not to post assumptions and then post an assumption right afterward? Can you provide links to the studies you are referring to, or are you assuming?
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On March 18 2011 14:32 nart wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:58 Cedstick wrote:SK has cheaper living costs than in North America -- I personally can't compare to the EU -- and they already have their room, board, and supposed food paid for, so 31k is actually pretty damn good. On March 14 2011 15:45 FXOpen wrote:I pay above average Until you disclose specifics, stop trying to turn this in to your thread Until you disclose the cost of living comparison between South Korea and the states, don't post assumptions. If you said rural SK, then it might be true; but Seoul and the surrounding region have one of the highest cost of living in the world according to most studies.
I've had plenty of people tell me that the living costs in Korea aren't actually that bad, and the numbers they've given me are under what it's costed me to live in Vancouver, BC. Isn't the average income in the low 20k USD range?
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On March 18 2011 10:19 WAAA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 12:52 chenchen wrote:
Hey guys, I just want to make this clear, because there's a lot of misconception regarding this.
South Korea is a highly highly developed country, easily one of the fifteen most developed countries in the world (actually widely considered to be ranked 10th-15th) along with nations like NA (no Mexico), Northern Europe, Japan, and Australia.
The cost and standard of living in Korea is very high and comparable to that of any other urban first world country. The Seoul area is especially notoriously expensive. South korea is ranked #33 in terms of GDP per capita according to the international monetary fund (2010) with $20165. US is $47,132 at 9th, Australia $54,869 at 6th. So yea, you are quite wrong..
South Korea is ranked 12th by Human Development Index, the measure of standard of living in a country according to the UN. It's above several countries notorious for high standards of living such as Denmark and Switzerland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_HDI
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On March 14 2011 14:45 Sanguinarius wrote:
Thats excellent news. 31k is a very respectable sum.
Especially in korea. Prices can't be compared.
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On March 18 2011 15:12 Froadac wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:45 Sanguinarius wrote:
Thats excellent news. 31k is a very respectable sum. Especially in korea. Prices can't be compared.
See my post right above yours.
The Seoul area, where most progamers live in, has a cost of living far higher than most of the United States.
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On March 18 2011 15:16 chenchen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 15:12 Froadac wrote:On March 14 2011 14:45 Sanguinarius wrote:
Thats excellent news. 31k is a very respectable sum. Especially in korea. Prices can't be compared. See my post right above yours. The Seoul area, where most progamers live in, has a cost of living far higher than most of the United States.
Maybe. It said it jumepd 20 places in from 09-10. All my friends who have been there just talk about how cheap it all is.
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It is cheap if you live like a Korean
It is expensive if you live like a foreigner
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So how many of you would swap positions with them?
Sure we debate about cost of living, and 30k being reasonable, but there's no way i'd trade places with them.
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With my spending habits, I'd say I'd still be saving a minimum of $25k a year... doing what I love. It's not like 8-12 hours a day playing a game is terribly hard work.
Yea, I'd switch places.
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I'd switch places after I complete my education, which is still early enough to give me a solid 5, 6 years as a successful progamer.
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On March 18 2011 15:53 Cedstick wrote:
With my spending habits, I'd say I'd still be saving a minimum of $25k a year... doing what I love. It's not like 8-12 hours a day playing a game is terribly hard work.
Yea, I'd switch places.
It's more demanding than you think.
Your gonna be mental exhausting if you play at a very high level for 8 hours or more a day.
It's really really not easy to keep your focus up and trying to improve your play / find holes and keep your level.
I'm sure many high level players that play much everday would agree.
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hmm. not bad, but i was just listening to Root.Destiny's stream and apparently between lessons and the stream advertisements he makes around 50-60K a year. the amount of exposure those pros get is probably several times higher too
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Wow, holy shit!
I want to be a pro-gamer...!
Not.
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EPT
