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On March 12 2011 15:13 ProTech wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 15:12 VertigoX23 wrote:On March 12 2011 13:05 VertigoX23 wrote:
I just watched the first game.
7:10 - He selects his SCV and sends it up to build the ebay BEFORE cloak starts researching.
7:50 - He scouts the expo with his banshee and sees that it's empty and goes back to his hiding spot. Why would he do that if he's hacking?
10:00 - Dropship flies all the way across the middle of the map, drops 4 hellions and starts roasting SCV's BEFORE he even notices it.
11:15 - Yes he micros the banshee back, probably because he notices that red isn't leaving his natural. But then, only 30 seconds later, he sends the banshee in just like he was going to do earlier and it dies to the four vikings there.
13:35 - He resets his rallies to the middle of his base. However, red's army isn't anywhere near his cliff at this time! Red's army is much farther north and it looks like red will be heading for blue's natural. Red only starts flying south towards his cliff AFTER the rallies have been set.
17:30 - His dropships were never on a collision course with the hellion. He selects the dropships and immediately waypoints them to the back of red's base. They only change direction for half a second and then start flying right in the direction they were originally going.
18:15 - He unloads his drops into red's main which is already mined out. Not once during the entire game did he look through the fog of war at red's main. Even if he was hacking he wouldn't have known that there were no turrets there.
This is also the first glimpse he gets of red's battlecruisers. After the battle he immediately throws down two starports. He was going siege tank heavy before this.
I don't think a single one of the points you made for the first game are valid.
Hopefully the next two games have some actual evidence or this is just a complete waste of time. ProTech. I have detailed how everything you said about the first game is incorrect. Care to respond? And your details have been thwarted time and time again. And based on what you wrote, you obviously didnt watch the replay in the right speed and see every single little detail he did 60 apm + no scouting 20 mins into game makes no sense anyway.
Protech, where in this topic has anyone addressed the points he raised here? You keep claiming his claims are refuted, how he's wrong, etc. - but you refuse to address the fact that he addressed all the "suspicious" things in it.
On March 12 2011 15:19 OctaKingMax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 15:12 VertigoX23 wrote:On March 12 2011 13:05 VertigoX23 wrote:
I just watched the first game.
7:10 - He selects his SCV and sends it up to build the ebay BEFORE cloak starts researching.
7:50 - He scouts the expo with his banshee and sees that it's empty and goes back to his hiding spot. Why would he do that if he's hacking?
10:00 - Dropship flies all the way across the middle of the map, drops 4 hellions and starts roasting SCV's BEFORE he even notices it.
11:15 - Yes he micros the banshee back, probably because he notices that red isn't leaving his natural. But then, only 30 seconds later, he sends the banshee in just like he was going to do earlier and it dies to the four vikings there.
13:35 - He resets his rallies to the middle of his base. However, red's army isn't anywhere near his cliff at this time! Red's army is much farther north and it looks like red will be heading for blue's natural. Red only starts flying south towards his cliff AFTER the rallies have been set.
17:30 - His dropships were never on a collision course with the hellion. He selects the dropships and immediately waypoints them to the back of red's base. They only change direction for half a second and then start flying right in the direction they were originally going.
18:15 - He unloads his drops into red's main which is already mined out. Not once during the entire game did he look through the fog of war at red's main. Even if he was hacking he wouldn't have known that there were no turrets there.
This is also the first glimpse he gets of red's battlecruisers. After the battle he immediately throws down two starports. He was going siege tank heavy before this.
I don't think a single one of the points you made for the first game are valid.
Hopefully the next two games have some actual evidence or this is just a complete waste of time. ProTech. I have detailed how everything you said about the first game is incorrect. Care to respond? ROFL, just ran both this clown's and Green's IPs on a tracker and they're exactly the same. lulz, this just puts the icing on the cake.
Unless you're a staff member, I fail to see how you would've gotten their IPs...? If you're a staff member, why not just reveal yourself, since by posting that you're either blatantly lying, or have already revealed yourself as a staff member.
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On March 12 2011 15:17 Greenworld wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 15:09 Peas wrote:On March 12 2011 14:57 Greenworld wrote: apm means 0 in my eyes and so it should to everyone else considering he does have decent apm in late game.
and at 20:10 he was planting a cc I love people who contradict themselves in the span of one sentence I appologize for my bad english , what i wanted to say apm doesn't mean anything in my eyes. IF it does in yours you should see he has decent apm in late game. If you didn't understand now i am sorry again and gonna ask for someone to translate for me.
60 apm in the late game is not decent for a top 5 ladder player.
None of the evidence is concrete, if it was there would be no discussion here. However from what i've seen of him, and his past in DoTA, i believe its a case of guilty until proven innocent.
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On March 12 2011 15:20 PinkPrincess wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 15:13 ProTech wrote:On March 12 2011 15:12 VertigoX23 wrote:On March 12 2011 13:05 VertigoX23 wrote:
I just watched the first game.
7:10 - He selects his SCV and sends it up to build the ebay BEFORE cloak starts researching.
7:50 - He scouts the expo with his banshee and sees that it's empty and goes back to his hiding spot. Why would he do that if he's hacking?
10:00 - Dropship flies all the way across the middle of the map, drops 4 hellions and starts roasting SCV's BEFORE he even notices it.
11:15 - Yes he micros the banshee back, probably because he notices that red isn't leaving his natural. But then, only 30 seconds later, he sends the banshee in just like he was going to do earlier and it dies to the four vikings there.
13:35 - He resets his rallies to the middle of his base. However, red's army isn't anywhere near his cliff at this time! Red's army is much farther north and it looks like red will be heading for blue's natural. Red only starts flying south towards his cliff AFTER the rallies have been set.
17:30 - His dropships were never on a collision course with the hellion. He selects the dropships and immediately waypoints them to the back of red's base. They only change direction for half a second and then start flying right in the direction they were originally going.
18:15 - He unloads his drops into red's main which is already mined out. Not once during the entire game did he look through the fog of war at red's main. Even if he was hacking he wouldn't have known that there were no turrets there.
This is also the first glimpse he gets of red's battlecruisers. After the battle he immediately throws down two starports. He was going siege tank heavy before this.
I don't think a single one of the points you made for the first game are valid.
Hopefully the next two games have some actual evidence or this is just a complete waste of time. ProTech. I have detailed how everything you said about the first game is incorrect. Care to respond? And your details have been thwarted time and time again. And based on what you wrote, you obviously didnt watch the replay in the right speed and see every single little detail he did 60 apm + no scouting 20 mins into game makes no sense anyway. Protech, where in this topic has anyone addressed the points he raised here? You keep claiming his claims are refuted, how he's wrong, etc. - but you refuse to address the fact that he addressed all the "suspicious" things in it.
Agreed, I spotted everything Vertigo did in the first game. The OP's points on that game are just way off the mark. If ProTech wants to be taken seriously, he needs to at least respond to reasonable debate.
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It's the obvious actions of a hacker. When I played BW I used a maphack and would do the same types of actions. BW didn't take as much effort to hide though since replays didn't have first-person perspective replays. But things like allowing an expo to build or allowing a drop into my base were common moves. Likewise when I had a wall-hack in Action Quake 2, I would often "slip up" in my gameplay to allow others to either kill me outright, or path my routes through maps in a way to avoid a player until I could "happen" upon them from behind. I would take these actions because players could spectate my view and would easily be able to tell I was wall-hacking and get me banned from the server.
We can also probably assume that he isn't constantly watching his mini-map, because he plays like a low-level diamond/high platinum player, and a common problem for players all the way up to Masters is constantly watching the minimap.
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You seriously cannot be a top 5 ladder player with 60 apm. Apm doesnt mean anything apparently but I push 90-100 as a high master player who uses 2 hotkeys. And looking at these replays, he is suspicious as hell. The 6 bunker thing... standard.
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PinkPrincess, it's quite funny to make that you seem to be half trying to copy the name of that girl who was on the Sorcery aka LastHitMagic tip in DotA. To everyone saying there's no definitive proof: That's true. Unfortunately, calling Sorcery aka LastHitMagic a maphacker is not without precedent. He did the exact same thing in DotA. Be decent at the game, but hack to make yourself godly. Obviously APM itself does not a professional make, but it is fairly indicative of lots of things important in the game (multitasking, to mention one).
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ROFL, just ran both this clown's and Green's IPs on a tracker and they're exactly the same.
lulz, this just puts the icing on the cake.
wow, so now you're IP oogling random people on the site?
hell, whatever happened to privacy? can you get onto his hard drive and tell us what he has in his folder as well, because, you know, he's defending that iGware guy?
stick this in the hacker section and let the mods take care of it
EDIT: just so it's out there, I don't really support either side, but it does look weird
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On March 12 2011 15:22 whatthefat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 15:20 PinkPrincess wrote:On March 12 2011 15:13 ProTech wrote:On March 12 2011 15:12 VertigoX23 wrote:On March 12 2011 13:05 VertigoX23 wrote:
I just watched the first game.
7:10 - He selects his SCV and sends it up to build the ebay BEFORE cloak starts researching.
7:50 - He scouts the expo with his banshee and sees that it's empty and goes back to his hiding spot. Why would he do that if he's hacking?
10:00 - Dropship flies all the way across the middle of the map, drops 4 hellions and starts roasting SCV's BEFORE he even notices it.
11:15 - Yes he micros the banshee back, probably because he notices that red isn't leaving his natural. But then, only 30 seconds later, he sends the banshee in just like he was going to do earlier and it dies to the four vikings there.
13:35 - He resets his rallies to the middle of his base. However, red's army isn't anywhere near his cliff at this time! Red's army is much farther north and it looks like red will be heading for blue's natural. Red only starts flying south towards his cliff AFTER the rallies have been set.
17:30 - His dropships were never on a collision course with the hellion. He selects the dropships and immediately waypoints them to the back of red's base. They only change direction for half a second and then start flying right in the direction they were originally going.
18:15 - He unloads his drops into red's main which is already mined out. Not once during the entire game did he look through the fog of war at red's main. Even if he was hacking he wouldn't have known that there were no turrets there.
This is also the first glimpse he gets of red's battlecruisers. After the battle he immediately throws down two starports. He was going siege tank heavy before this.
I don't think a single one of the points you made for the first game are valid.
Hopefully the next two games have some actual evidence or this is just a complete waste of time. ProTech. I have detailed how everything you said about the first game is incorrect. Care to respond? And your details have been thwarted time and time again. And based on what you wrote, you obviously didnt watch the replay in the right speed and see every single little detail he did 60 apm + no scouting 20 mins into game makes no sense anyway. Protech, where in this topic has anyone addressed the points he raised here? You keep claiming his claims are refuted, how he's wrong, etc. - but you refuse to address the fact that he addressed all the "suspicious" things in it. Agreed, I spotted everything Vertigo did in the first game. The OP's points on that game are just way off the mark. If ProTech wants to be taken seriously, he needs to at least respond to reasonable debate.
So you're the third person who disagress with me, that's fine. There's about 25+ who agree, so obviously I wouldn't care ^_^
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I saw all 3 replays. The first game where he just randomly sent marines to the expo was fishy indeed. I do not think anyone can argue against something like that. If you know your opponent has banshees/blue flame hellions, I'll think twice about sending marines by themselves. The second game, I didn't see anything obvious or suspicious. I found shocking that he played very mediocre. If you knew your opponent has mass lings, get blue flame hellions? I am unsure massing marines was a good preparation to handle ling/baneling. I wish I can see more replays of this guy. He is Top 10 in the US server afterall. The third game can be a little suspicious since they haven't scouted at all. But with mass lings walled off, must come mass banelings. Wish I can yell hacker, but if you can find more replays of him, that would be great.
I checked out his match history though. The guy loves to win, I'll tell you that.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/758609/1/iGware/matches
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Pretty obvious at this point, i doubt he has that good game sense with horrible mechanics in contrast, and being a previous DOTA hacker their is no reason not to believe he would not do it again.
I don't see any legitimate points for his defense either, his mechanics are horrid for a masters players let alone a top 5 in the world. Multiple replays of over reactions to things he has never seen.
Either the replays are all dumb luck or hes cheating, and you dont get top 5 in the world through dumb luck.
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On March 12 2011 15:25 ProTech wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 15:22 whatthefat wrote:On March 12 2011 15:20 PinkPrincess wrote:On March 12 2011 15:13 ProTech wrote:On March 12 2011 15:12 VertigoX23 wrote:On March 12 2011 13:05 VertigoX23 wrote:
I just watched the first game.
7:10 - He selects his SCV and sends it up to build the ebay BEFORE cloak starts researching.
7:50 - He scouts the expo with his banshee and sees that it's empty and goes back to his hiding spot. Why would he do that if he's hacking?
10:00 - Dropship flies all the way across the middle of the map, drops 4 hellions and starts roasting SCV's BEFORE he even notices it.
11:15 - Yes he micros the banshee back, probably because he notices that red isn't leaving his natural. But then, only 30 seconds later, he sends the banshee in just like he was going to do earlier and it dies to the four vikings there.
13:35 - He resets his rallies to the middle of his base. However, red's army isn't anywhere near his cliff at this time! Red's army is much farther north and it looks like red will be heading for blue's natural. Red only starts flying south towards his cliff AFTER the rallies have been set.
17:30 - His dropships were never on a collision course with the hellion. He selects the dropships and immediately waypoints them to the back of red's base. They only change direction for half a second and then start flying right in the direction they were originally going.
18:15 - He unloads his drops into red's main which is already mined out. Not once during the entire game did he look through the fog of war at red's main. Even if he was hacking he wouldn't have known that there were no turrets there.
This is also the first glimpse he gets of red's battlecruisers. After the battle he immediately throws down two starports. He was going siege tank heavy before this.
I don't think a single one of the points you made for the first game are valid.
Hopefully the next two games have some actual evidence or this is just a complete waste of time. ProTech. I have detailed how everything you said about the first game is incorrect. Care to respond? And your details have been thwarted time and time again. And based on what you wrote, you obviously didnt watch the replay in the right speed and see every single little detail he did 60 apm + no scouting 20 mins into game makes no sense anyway. Protech, where in this topic has anyone addressed the points he raised here? You keep claiming his claims are refuted, how he's wrong, etc. - but you refuse to address the fact that he addressed all the "suspicious" things in it. Agreed, I spotted everything Vertigo did in the first game. The OP's points on that game are just way off the mark. If ProTech wants to be taken seriously, he needs to at least respond to reasonable debate. So you're the third person who disagress with me, that's fine. There's about 25+ who agree, so obviously I wouldn't care ^_^
Problem is none of those people have addressed any of Vertigo's points either. If he's wrong on even a single one of those points, explain why.
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On March 12 2011 15:19 OctaKingMax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 15:12 VertigoX23 wrote:On March 12 2011 13:05 VertigoX23 wrote:
I just watched the first game.
7:10 - He selects his SCV and sends it up to build the ebay BEFORE cloak starts researching.
7:50 - He scouts the expo with his banshee and sees that it's empty and goes back to his hiding spot. Why would he do that if he's hacking?
10:00 - Dropship flies all the way across the middle of the map, drops 4 hellions and starts roasting SCV's BEFORE he even notices it.
11:15 - Yes he micros the banshee back, probably because he notices that red isn't leaving his natural. But then, only 30 seconds later, he sends the banshee in just like he was going to do earlier and it dies to the four vikings there.
13:35 - He resets his rallies to the middle of his base. However, red's army isn't anywhere near his cliff at this time! Red's army is much farther north and it looks like red will be heading for blue's natural. Red only starts flying south towards his cliff AFTER the rallies have been set.
17:30 - His dropships were never on a collision course with the hellion. He selects the dropships and immediately waypoints them to the back of red's base. They only change direction for half a second and then start flying right in the direction they were originally going.
18:15 - He unloads his drops into red's main which is already mined out. Not once during the entire game did he look through the fog of war at red's main. Even if he was hacking he wouldn't have known that there were no turrets there.
This is also the first glimpse he gets of red's battlecruisers. After the battle he immediately throws down two starports. He was going siege tank heavy before this.
I don't think a single one of the points you made for the first game are valid.
Hopefully the next two games have some actual evidence or this is just a complete waste of time. ProTech. I have detailed how everything you said about the first game is incorrect. Care to respond? ROFL, just ran both this clown's and Green's IPs on a tracker and they're exactly the same. lulz, this just puts the icing on the cake.
Gz on your first post  )
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Made a .gif of the blind double expo hit in the 2nd game. Not shown in the .gif is how iGware puts his marines on the high ground out of range/vision of the PF through the fog without vision or knowledge of the expansion.
![[image loading]](http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/7016/uncoutedbaseshmm3.gif)
Notice how he blindly sends 1/2 the marines to the other expo before the PF can finish? Who sends 14 marines to scout a possible expo without a scan for army/tanks or anything?
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If he's cheating then I want him banned. But standards of evidence exist for a reason.
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This thread is just a boring back and forth now. Let's mod challenge this shit. iGware and Sorcery's friends in this thread can vouch for them under the caveat that if those two are found to be hacking, they get banned too (at least from TL). Let's see how much faith they have when they have something to lose!
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My little brother (StellarMango on SC2) plays with iGware a decent amount, and I asked him if he knew anything about iGware hacking, and he pretty much just shrugged and said, "Yeah, iGware admits that he does."
After taking a look at those replays, it pretty much confirms it. And the fact that he's cheated in the past certainly doesn't help.
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On March 12 2011 15:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
My little brother (StellarMango on SC2) plays with iGware a decent amount, and I asked him if he knew anything about iGware hacking, and he pretty much just shrugged and said, "Yeah, iGware admits that he does."
After taking a look at those replays, it pretty much confirms it. And the fact that he's cheated in the past certainly doesn't help.
You: how much do you play with stellarmango lol
he claims you hack
Him: i never played with him before
LOL
i shit talked him
though
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On March 12 2011 15:51 PinkPrincess wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 15:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
My little brother (StellarMango on SC2) plays with iGware a decent amount, and I asked him if he knew anything about iGware hacking, and he pretty much just shrugged and said, "Yeah, iGware admits that he does."
After taking a look at those replays, it pretty much confirms it. And the fact that he's cheated in the past certainly doesn't help. You: how much do you play with stellarmango lol he claims you hack Him: i never played with him before LOL i shit talked him though
I've watched them play games together before -.-' He plays on my laptop lol.
So iGware just shit talks people he's never met? That makes sense.
We can add lying to cheating and hacking, I guess. It's a pity that people like this have to play on our servers.
Anyways, I hope this gets resolved.
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On March 12 2011 15:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 15:51 PinkPrincess wrote:On March 12 2011 15:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
My little brother (StellarMango on SC2) plays with iGware a decent amount, and I asked him if he knew anything about iGware hacking, and he pretty much just shrugged and said, "Yeah, iGware admits that he does."
After taking a look at those replays, it pretty much confirms it. And the fact that he's cheated in the past certainly doesn't help. You: how much do you play with stellarmango lol he claims you hack Him: i never played with him before LOL i shit talked him though I've watched them play games together before -.-' He plays on my laptop lol. So iGware just shit talks people he's never met? That makes sense. We can add lying to cheating and hacking, I guess. It's a pity that people like this have to play on our servers. Anyways, I hope this gets resolved.
Well, actually, I asked Sorcery since Protech was calling him the hacker on iGware's account. I didn't ask the actual iGware. Generally the topic here has all been calling Sorcery the hacker on iGware's account, so that was the logical person to ask.
To whoever asked to put up: the mods can absolutely ban me if they want if there is definitive proof found of him hacking (I don't just mean a panel of random respected people deciding that he hacks)
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EPT
