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On March 02 2011 04:02 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I know you said not to start a debate about whats unexpected and whats expected, but I think you have enough of them wrong to mention it:
Zenio and Inca are definitely unexpected dropouts, especially Zenio who I think played far below his level that day. Julyzerg is DEFINITELY a HUGELY unexpected survivor. Like, thats easily the biggest upset this tournament, by far.
Clide is an upset I think, although I dont really know if Clide or Byun is stronger TvT so hard to say.
Lyn isnt REALLY that surprising in that group, it was a very strange group.
As for comments about group play being bad/the thing to blame for this... I dont really get it. Group play is something I personally prefer - at least it avoids two really strong players KOing eachother early, and means you have to be strong in more than 1 matchup (usually).
Id prefer full round robin over this system, but its still better than straight up bo3 from the start.
Hey Jinro, what do you think about SanZenith's performance? I'm sure you might have some better insight on that lol. He never seemed as good as he was against Nestea, Boxer and Ensnare. Was he always that good or did he just practice hard?
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On March 02 2011 03:55 QTIP. wrote:
You pretty much nailed it... it always seems like people know exactly what he's doing. Artosis always praises him for his "safe macro" play, but in reality he loses doing just that.
you can't have 2 builds for all matchups and not expect people to easily be able to prepare for you.
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I think the fact that older players underperform and some new players have their time to shine is also because of balance-reasons and of course the BO1-System.
It's pretty obvious that players like Nestea, Zenio and Fruitdealer have huge Problems as Zerg now and that extremely good players like July (won with 2 cheeses in a row) and the player with probably the most games (Check.Prime) just barely made it out of the first round.
It's also pretty obvious that none of those new talents are Zerg, which is pretty sad IMHO.
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On March 02 2011 04:14 kickinhead wrote:
I think the fact that older players underperform and some new players have their time to shine is also because of balance-reasons and of course the BO1-System.
It's pretty obvious that players like Nestea, Zenio and Fruitdealer have huge Problems as Zerg now and that extremely good players like July (won with 2 cheeses in a row) and the player with probably the most games (Check.Prime) just barely made it out of the first round.
It's also pretty obvious that none of those new talents are Zerg, which is pretty sad IMHO.
DRG isn't in GSL yet, so you have to wait for the new talented Zerg. 
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On March 01 2011 23:17 Zephirdd wrote:Well, I'd be overreacting if, and only if, these guys who went out had lost due to a gimmicky/stupid strategy, but they were just plain overplayed. although... + Show Spoiler +sanZenith won that game thanks to warp-in storms for harass and an archon toilet. 1.3 anyone?
He didn't do an archon toilet. Although Tasteless and Artosis were yelling at him to do it the whole time. He only vortex'd half the army and then just cleaned it up with the archons.
SanZenith straight up outplayed his whole group, which no one was expecting. Seeing Ensnare make it out of the group wasn't as big of a deal. No one expected NesTea and Boxer to be 0-2 for sure.
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I find it refreshing to see new faces pop up in the GSL. I mean how many expected guys like San, Ensnare etc to advance, who havent shown anything since the first 2 open seasons. And then the code A players who were promoted like Byun, July and Lyn, who have shown that they can compete with the code S players by advancing in their groups.
The game evolves very rapidly because the game is still young. Its silly to expect the same guys to remain competitive consistently because sooner or later their strategies will be figured out and they will fall off the radar unless they can mix up their play and come up with new strategies. MKP is a great example since he is known for his great micro and his use of marine/medivac. He has been figured out, which is why he was mixing it up in the group today with mech against kyrix and some wierd build against SCfOu. Unfortunately it didnt quite work out for him, which is a shame because I think hes a very entertaining player, as well as many others who got knocked down to the Up/down matches.
Another fine example, Fruitdealer, who was seen as the best zerg player in the world, but has been knocked out early in the seasons after his win in GSL1, and will now go to the up/down matches for a second time.
One of the reasons could also be the maps as some already pointed out. Playing on Terminus Re instead of Steppes of War is obviously a HUGE difference. Strats that worked well on smaller maps and close spawns will be less effective on large maps, thus creating a significant change in the metagame.
Arguing that there are balance issues is kind of pointless. I personally dont think there are any significantly huge imbalances that makes the game completely broken or whatever else people seem to think.
There are some units however, who are a bit stronger than they perhaps should be and others who arent strong enough.
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On March 02 2011 04:21 Torumfroll wrote:
I find it refreshing to see new faces pop up in the GSL. I mean how many expected guys like San, Ensnare etc to advance, who havent shown anything since the first 2 open seasons. And then the code A players who were promoted like Byun, July and Lyn, who have shown that they can compete with the code S players by advancing in their groups.
The game evolves very rapidly because the game is still young. Its silly to expect the same guys to remain competitive consistently because sooner or later their strategies will be figured out and they will fall off the radar unless they can mix up their play and come up with new strategies. MKP is a great example since he is known for his great micro and his use of marine/medivac. He has been figured out, which is why he was mixing it up in the group today with mech against kyrix and some wierd build against SCfOu. Unfortunately it didnt quite work out for him, which is a shame because I think hes a very entertaining player, as well as many others who got knocked down to the Up/down matches.
Another fine example, Fruitdealer, who was seen as the best zerg player in the world, but has been knocked out early in the seasons after his win in GSL1, and will now go to the up/down matches for a second time.
One of the reasons could also be the maps as some already pointed out. Playing on Terminus Re instead of Steppes of War is obviously a HUGE difference. Strats that worked well on smaller maps and close spawns will be less effective on large maps, thus creating a significant change in the metagame.
Arguing that there are balance issues is kind of pointless. I personally dont think there are any significantly huge imbalances that makes the game completely broken or whatever else people seem to think.
There are some units however, who are a bit stronger than they perhaps should be and others who arent strong enough.
Yeah, Idk why people are so surprised to see Boxer/Fruitdealer/Genius out. They never really got anywhere super far in GSL after the early opens. NesTea and MVP were the only two surprises I had.
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On March 02 2011 04:31 Redneck! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 04:21 Torumfroll wrote:
I find it refreshing to see new faces pop up in the GSL. I mean how many expected guys like San, Ensnare etc to advance, who havent shown anything since the first 2 open seasons. And then the code A players who were promoted like Byun, July and Lyn, who have shown that they can compete with the code S players by advancing in their groups.
The game evolves very rapidly because the game is still young. Its silly to expect the same guys to remain competitive consistently because sooner or later their strategies will be figured out and they will fall off the radar unless they can mix up their play and come up with new strategies. MKP is a great example since he is known for his great micro and his use of marine/medivac. He has been figured out, which is why he was mixing it up in the group today with mech against kyrix and some wierd build against SCfOu. Unfortunately it didnt quite work out for him, which is a shame because I think hes a very entertaining player, as well as many others who got knocked down to the Up/down matches.
Another fine example, Fruitdealer, who was seen as the best zerg player in the world, but has been knocked out early in the seasons after his win in GSL1, and will now go to the up/down matches for a second time.
One of the reasons could also be the maps as some already pointed out. Playing on Terminus Re instead of Steppes of War is obviously a HUGE difference. Strats that worked well on smaller maps and close spawns will be less effective on large maps, thus creating a significant change in the metagame.
Arguing that there are balance issues is kind of pointless. I personally dont think there are any significantly huge imbalances that makes the game completely broken or whatever else people seem to think.
There are some units however, who are a bit stronger than they perhaps should be and others who arent strong enough. Yeah, Idk why people are so surprised to see Boxer/Fruitdealer/Genius out. They never really got anywhere super far in GSL after the early opens. NesTea and MVP were the only two surprises I had.
Fair enough. As I said earlier, some players were considered surprises simply based on notability and past performances. Those 3 are prime examples. Boxer (legend), Fruitdealer (GSL1), Genius (Blizzcon).
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On March 02 2011 04:33 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 04:31 Redneck! wrote:On March 02 2011 04:21 Torumfroll wrote:
I find it refreshing to see new faces pop up in the GSL. I mean how many expected guys like San, Ensnare etc to advance, who havent shown anything since the first 2 open seasons. And then the code A players who were promoted like Byun, July and Lyn, who have shown that they can compete with the code S players by advancing in their groups.
The game evolves very rapidly because the game is still young. Its silly to expect the same guys to remain competitive consistently because sooner or later their strategies will be figured out and they will fall off the radar unless they can mix up their play and come up with new strategies. MKP is a great example since he is known for his great micro and his use of marine/medivac. He has been figured out, which is why he was mixing it up in the group today with mech against kyrix and some wierd build against SCfOu. Unfortunately it didnt quite work out for him, which is a shame because I think hes a very entertaining player, as well as many others who got knocked down to the Up/down matches.
Another fine example, Fruitdealer, who was seen as the best zerg player in the world, but has been knocked out early in the seasons after his win in GSL1, and will now go to the up/down matches for a second time.
One of the reasons could also be the maps as some already pointed out. Playing on Terminus Re instead of Steppes of War is obviously a HUGE difference. Strats that worked well on smaller maps and close spawns will be less effective on large maps, thus creating a significant change in the metagame.
Arguing that there are balance issues is kind of pointless. I personally dont think there are any significantly huge imbalances that makes the game completely broken or whatever else people seem to think.
There are some units however, who are a bit stronger than they perhaps should be and others who arent strong enough. Yeah, Idk why people are so surprised to see Boxer/Fruitdealer/Genius out. They never really got anywhere super far in GSL after the early opens. NesTea and MVP were the only two surprises I had. Fair enough. As I said earlier, some players were considered surprises simply based on notability and past performances. Those 3 are prime examples. Boxer (legend), Fruitdealer (GSL1), Genius (Blizzcon).
Fruitdealer has not done anything amazing in the GSL since season 1, Genius has not done anything amazing in the GSL period, and Boxer's fame comes from BW (And his good performance in season 2).
I can't imagine how someone can be surprised that people who don't have a good match history are not performing well.
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Why is this season so boring now? All we have left to watch is Huk,Jinro and MC
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On March 02 2011 04:56 Mindflow wrote:
Why is this season so boring now? All we have left to watch is Huk,Jinro and MC
If you only ever watch champions, you're going to have bad Starcraft experiences regularly. You need to be able to look at new or unrecognized players playing good games(as practically everyone has, the games have been AMAZING) and say "Yeah, this is a guy I can root for."
Let me emphasize this since it has been unfairly ignored:
THE GAMES HAVE BEEN AMAZING
This is hands down the best GSL ever in terms of quality of play, and it's not just from champion players. Even Code A stepped it up, even though some of the matches are boring it's completely on another plane of existence from code A last season. If you only watch GSL to see foreigners play, I can see how this might be boring, but I also don't see that as a fair way to treat starcraft or tournaments in general.
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If we must keep group play I really wish it was round robin, all players playing everyone within the group rather then this W1 vs L1, W2 vs L2 shit.
Overall would prefer a more standard best of 3s bracket play instead of groupings
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On March 01 2011 23:25 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2011 23:14 bennyaus wrote:
The winner of oGsMC and Jinro in the round of 8 will be the winner of this tournament, without a doubt. 3 words God of War. this is probably because the players still need more time to get used to these maps.
maybe, but who killed the god of war? thats right, Kratoss
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Great games so far, have really enjoyed it all. Very difficult to predict anything at all since the overall level of play seems to so high.
Although MKP went out his game against Zenith was simply incredible macro, the speed and timing of expansions was amazing. Really thought he was going to dominate the others then. Should have pulled out the mass marines! Want Jinro to win it now for the europeans, can't wait for his match vs MC its going to be so good. 
Does anyone else always cheer for Zerg when its a late game PvZ? They always seems like such an underdog against the unstoppable protoss death balls no matter how well they play. 
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On March 02 2011 04:56 Mindflow wrote:
Why is this season so boring now? All we have left to watch is Huk,Jinro and MC
You apparently haven't seen a single one of the games that sparked this whole discussion.
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On March 02 2011 05:13 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 04:56 Mindflow wrote:
Why is this season so boring now? All we have left to watch is Huk,Jinro and MC You apparently haven't seen a single one of the games that sparked this whole discussion.
Thanks for beating me to it. The quality of the games this GSL is consistently higher than in previous seasons.
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I blame bo1.
GOM should back to BO3 games, it was a lot better
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On March 02 2011 05:17 zYwi3c wrote:
I blame bo1.
GOM should back to BO3 games, it was a lot better
Why? What's your evidence? This worked beautifully in January. BEAUTIFULLY. It also worked beautifully in BW starleagues. As far as I'm concerned, it worked beautifully here. There were upsets because players lost their games, not because a system tainted with the stink of unfairness forced them to lose the 2 games necessary for getting knocked out.
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Season of noobs would be a better name for this. San-Anypro-HongUn were biggest candidates to demote to code a in the last up&down matches and yet still they are here in the code s (i don't know what kind of luck is holding them there because none of these 3 show skills to me. Well, San played well in the group but anypro and hongun? give me a break).
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Give the competitive scene and the game in general time to settle before declaring upsets. It's going to be like this for some time.
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EPT
