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On February 26 2011 17:04 resilve wrote:
At first I was like "oh sweet, HTs get amulet as a given now!" then I read on.
As a toss who favours HT tech over collo it is pretty fair to say that this change wont make it off the PTR - therefore there isnt too much to worry about. If you need explaining why amulet is essential to HT tech then you shouldnt even be posting.
Blizz are more than happy to cut changes from patch notes, so they will undoubtedly leave this one on the cutting room floor.
So if they leave it on the cutting room floor, how would you propose to change the OP of late game protoss? Blizzard already mentioned last year that this is imbalanced, the pro's mostly agree, and the spectators surely want some excitement. If they leave it on the cutting room floor P will still be imbalanced, so I ask you what to change instead of the HTs? Do you instead propose to remove the ability to warp in HTs and only be able to build them from gateways, or do you propose that Storm only can do damage to biological?
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"player x inserts his opinion" "player y replies and tell him he is bronze player"
high five ~
just wait and see how it pans out, its just a ptr, not everything has to go live how its on the ptr, thats why they test certain changes.
i think this alarm for the 3 "macro" abilities is really stupid.
would ve liked to see them implement some good gsl maps into the ptr to test / ladder 
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On February 26 2011 17:40 Mortal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 17:37 goodvibes wrote:On February 26 2011 17:35 resilve wrote:On February 26 2011 17:30 Dustbunny wrote:
Does anyone else feel they nerfed the wrong part of the HTs ?
What made protoss so strong wasn't so much HTs + Amulet... it was HTs+ Amulet + WARPGATE.
Instead of nerfing the amulet...why not make HTs only trainable from regular gateways ? Also these could be chrono'd out when needed... Id be happier to have HTs build out of the Templar Archives like a Collosus out of a Robo if their speed was increased somewhat alot. The problems with HTs is not only that they are too strong on warp-ins but their main negative is that they are too slow to move cross-map and group up when moving due to speed. I understand the problems they cause when warped in, it is pretty stupid that you can fight off a lost 200v200 supply engagement with 3 warped in templars to finish off a ton of nearly dead bio units - but templars take too long to make storms on their own. There is a HUGE window when you are stuck on gateway units only when teching to HT + storm + amulet already that can be exploited with game-winning effect. This change only makes that worse What is the protoss answer to mass marines/marauders/vikings? What is protoss answer to hellion/thor? This game is fucked. Protoss the worst race by far. I'm switching to terran. Screw this imbalanced bullshit. Roach? nullifies all gateway units. Without forcefields it's gg; with forcefields that are not placed correctly (human error) game is over. Amazing how fast roaches are on/off creep with that upgrade. How the fuck is this game balanced when protoss keeps getting chipped away. uh, what + Show Spoiler +i play toss, and there's no way it's the worst race. did you just see sanzenith beat nestea?
Uhh dude you should spoiler that.
Anyways as a Protoss player I would still use HT but will be shaking in my seat every time as I tech up to them or warp in a set of HT's, as each time that happens there a 45 second window in which i have multiple 150 gas paperweights.
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On February 26 2011 17:40 Demarini wrote:
A lot of Terrans are forgetting the thing called micro(SHOCKER!). Storm does 80 dmg..over like, 5 seconds or something. That's insane. If you literally take half a second to move your units out, the damage is minimal. What if a Toss loses a fight now with this nerf? With all the money invested in the 44 second wonder, they will get stomped outright.
Storm where they are going? Not hard.
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On February 26 2011 17:28 spacenegroes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 17:13 Nomad123 wrote:On February 26 2011 16:54 Barca wrote:On February 26 2011 16:52 Nomad123 wrote:On February 26 2011 13:58 PikaXchU wrote:
Wait.. If there isn't amulet, how else do we deal with a huge ball of 30 mutalisks?! by not letting zerg get 30 mutalisk in the first place and using the phoenix buff blizz gave you toss earlier??? lololololol. There needs to be the ability to respond, not to pre-emptively counter, for a matchup to be balanced. lolololol so what have you been doing the whole time the zerg was making those 30 mutalisks? making probes? lololol Have you ever played Starcraft 2? Zerg can make a decent number of lings and still have mutas out by 9 minutes. What do you do when 7-8 mutas show up to your base and you've got a similar number of stalkers? Mutas are meant to harass. They fly between your main and nat mineral lines, they pick off edge spotter pylons, etc. Your hapless stalkers have to squeeze single file through your ramp choke (which you needed to get to because of speedlings). So, do you: A) Throw down 1-2 stargate(s) and start building phoenixes 1 by 1 and watch them get picked off, never reaching critical mass because zerg can hatch a bunch of mutas at once, or B) Get blink and cannons to defend, which leaves you the option of getting HT if he keeps going mutas Trolls should be banned, even on this thread.
have you ever played toss? you actually attack your phoenixes 1 by 1 to chunks of mutas? and you wonder why they die? lololol
your stalkers can hold off the muta harass early on while you do something, whether to build up your deathball or make some cannon or phoenixes (that's the point of the phoenix reduced time blizz gave toss DUH). terran has to make turrets, why can't toss make cannons? QQ much? cause toss need forge? oh right, so terran dont need some structure before building turrets right?
toss tears makes me smile 
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On February 26 2011 17:39 TyrantPotato wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 17:34 goodvibes wrote:On February 26 2011 17:27 TyrantPotato wrote:On February 26 2011 17:23 goodvibes wrote:
Protoss are now the 'weakest' race if this change is implemented.
We have NOTHING against MM late game.
2 Thor + 250mm cannon + 8scvs + 10 marine 6 minute push is unstoppable RIGHT NOW as protoss, just imagine in that patch.
Screw playing a different race, I'm just not going to play this game seriously. This is an absolute joke of a game.
Marine/Marauder counter was the high templar. Ghost placement had a HUGE hand in high templars (considering emp = 75 energy, they have a +25 energy upgrade), what the fuck does protoss do?
Vikings outrange stalkers and colossus, good luck ff wall. Terran just run away. This is sucha stupid game to even play now. excuse me.... but last i checked NONE of the nerfs to protoss will be increasing the difficulty to stop a 6 minute all in. How is this an all-in? 10 marines, 8 scvs and 2 thors is nothing near an all in. 6-9 pool = all in, 2 gate = all in, 2 berracks constant marines = all in. This is a viable 6 minute push that protoss cannot stop. If you can, please illustrate how. By the time observer gets to their base, from 1gate robo, you see the 1st thor. - I imemdiately chrono immortals and build only zealots. By the time they knock on my door, I have (3 gates are up by now), I have 7 zealots, 3 immortals and 1 stalker... vs. 2 thors, 250mm nullifies the thors, 10 marines kill the zealots which do nothing. You lose your army they lose 1 thor. you have still failed to explain how this patch will make it harder. as you suggested in the post i quoted. if it was unstoppable then that would be THE only thing you see in pvt in the gsl but it isnt therefore the term "unstoppable" doesnt apply. considering you believe it to be unstoppable however suggests you are not at the level where any sort of balance effects your games so you should not be worried about the patches so much. as opposed to your "this game is unplayable now" attitude you currently have. Edit: just read the post on top of the page. no point arguing with some one with that mind set. please go ahead switch to terran. you bought the game. you do with it as you wish >.>
I'm fine with admitting I'm terrible at this game. Anyone <3000 points masters will be in for a rude wake up call the moment 'real' maps come out (ones like ICCUP where multitasking is essential to winning). None of this - armie dies, gg.
The fact is, this patch was supposed to bring about over-all "progressive" balance. If you could understand the theory behind progressive patching, you will understand why this patch is relevant to this current TVP build.
In terms of my level? I watch a lot of streams and see INcontrol, MikeD, HuK and rootminigun win lose most frequently to mass roach builds.
They do not lose all of the time, but they sure shit don't win >50% either. It's enough losing for me to not "see" an asnwer.
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On February 26 2011 17:44 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 17:40 Mortal wrote:On February 26 2011 17:37 goodvibes wrote:On February 26 2011 17:35 resilve wrote:On February 26 2011 17:30 Dustbunny wrote:
Does anyone else feel they nerfed the wrong part of the HTs ?
What made protoss so strong wasn't so much HTs + Amulet... it was HTs+ Amulet + WARPGATE.
Instead of nerfing the amulet...why not make HTs only trainable from regular gateways ? Also these could be chrono'd out when needed... Id be happier to have HTs build out of the Templar Archives like a Collosus out of a Robo if their speed was increased somewhat alot. The problems with HTs is not only that they are too strong on warp-ins but their main negative is that they are too slow to move cross-map and group up when moving due to speed. I understand the problems they cause when warped in, it is pretty stupid that you can fight off a lost 200v200 supply engagement with 3 warped in templars to finish off a ton of nearly dead bio units - but templars take too long to make storms on their own. There is a HUGE window when you are stuck on gateway units only when teching to HT + storm + amulet already that can be exploited with game-winning effect. This change only makes that worse What is the protoss answer to mass marines/marauders/vikings? What is protoss answer to hellion/thor? This game is fucked. Protoss the worst race by far. I'm switching to terran. Screw this imbalanced bullshit. Roach? nullifies all gateway units. Without forcefields it's gg; with forcefields that are not placed correctly (human error) game is over. Amazing how fast roaches are on/off creep with that upgrade. How the fuck is this game balanced when protoss keeps getting chipped away. uh, what i play toss, and there's no way it's the worst race. did you just see sanzenith beat nestea? did you see how fucking amazing he played? he was everywhere, microing like a boss and always on top of his macri
no no i know, i'm not arguing he won because of P>Z that's not what i'm saying at all. but the case that toss is shit is made so beyond dumb because of that game. someone like nestea wouldn't lose to a race that was as weak as this guy is clearly saying it is. he definitely played amazing, good for him btw
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Wow, custom games interface looks really nice.
And templar nerf is interesting
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On February 26 2011 17:44 DooMDash wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 17:40 Demarini wrote:
A lot of Terrans are forgetting the thing called micro(SHOCKER!). Storm does 80 dmg..over like, 5 seconds or something. That's insane. If you literally take half a second to move your units out, the damage is minimal. What if a Toss loses a fight now with this nerf? With all the money invested in the 44 second wonder, they will get stomped outright. Storm where they are going? Not hard.
I can say the same for EMP. There's no justifying this nerf...and the Colossi deathball is still op as fuck. I like to watch more than play, and watching some nice HT play is 10x more fun than retarded 1a Colossi.
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Templar nerf will get me back to bronze league. Yay ...
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its PTR, last PTR changes were not all implemented. I doubt the templar change would. although its really weird that they nerf templar that already requires upgrading to do anything useful.
infestor change is interesting, but infestors were never the problem with the zerg matchup, i wouldn't say no to the buff, but the changes dont address zerg's getting pummeled early game. It still requires a lot more skill on zerg's end to fend off something incredibly easy to execute like a cannon rush or a bunker scv all in.
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On February 26 2011 17:42 TyrantPotato wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 17:40 Ribbon wrote:
Does the Fungal change fix or alleviate the "imbalanced" build of Colo/VR? that will be something to see. considering the buffed dps of the skill. perhaps we might see the usage increase. and considering the pojectile is rather slow(ish) it will bring some more Micro to battles. its almost like the infester is a new reaver hahaha
Microing VRs is actually a big deal. If Z fungals before VR charges, toss has to either take it like a man or have his VRs stop charging. If the VRs have their charge interrupted, they're much less useful in killing Corruptors.
So Zerg can either do massive DPS to Colo/Void, or force the Voids to not charge. That's pretty big. We'll have to wait and see how this works in practice, but the logic behind the change seems really strong. Unlike mass Muta (the other "counter" to the ball), Infestors aren't auto-lose to 6gates and the like. Hm...
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Protoss: Major nerf to high templars and the mothership. Don't know what the zealot change actually does...
Terran: Minor buff to battlecruisers, major nerf to bunkers, minor nerf to stimpack upgrade.
Zerg: The health+ on infestors is clearly a buff, but I have no idea about the changes on fungal growth.
I feel like this patch is an overreaction by Blizzard. HT warp-ins are very strong, sure, but expensive as hell. And without the option of an archon toilet(something that has been a known strategy for months) I don't think the mothership will ever be used again - maybe for base defence.
Bunker build time increased yet again. Meh. Next a factory is required to build a bunker...
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Infestors are the new reavers?
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On February 26 2011 17:49 ChrisXIV wrote:
Protoss: Major nerf to high templars and the mothership. Don't know what the zealot change actually does...
i believe this change makes them akin to lings that hit and then fall back after they get their hit in, whereas zealot w/ legs would just run up and not get a hit once they were in range.
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T.T, no more archon toilet
or storm + mothership
-Removal of HT energy upgrade? NO more instant storms *actually, I think thats kind of fair but I'm just sad that blizzard is removing so many features*
-T.T, no more viking flower
-I don't like the 4 sec reduce for Fungle Growth but I guess they die faster
-Stimpack time upgrade won't do much
- Cheat codes now only accept official names. (unneccessary change)
-Custom Maps still remains a huge issue that needs alot of work
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On February 26 2011 17:49 ChrisXIV wrote:
Protoss: Major nerf to high templars and the mothership. Don't know what the zealot change actually does...
Terran: Minor buff to battlecruisers, major nerf to bunkers, minor nerf to stimpack upgrade.
Zerg: The health+ on infestors is clearly a buff, but I have no idea about the changes on fungal growth.
I feel like this patch is an overreaction by Blizzard. HT warp-ins are very strong, sure, but expensive as hell. And without the option of an archon toilet(something that has been a known strategy for months) I don't think the mothership will ever be used again - maybe for base defence.
Bunker build time increased yet again. Meh. Next a factory is required to build a bunker...
Honestly for all balance purposes, there really shouldn't be a single unit that can, at minimum, instant kill half your army with a few archon/colossus. If that means it's not used as much so be it, but that ability is absolutely ridiculous. There's no way to justify it.
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Mothership change is really needed, before this unit was the most OP unit in game. Infestors hp buff is minor and other changes are hard to say is it buff or nerf. Infestors damage was buffed but the slow time was nerfed.
About HT I don't really get why they nerf templars but not collosus.
Overall seems like a good patch.
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lol ...
the 'no more archon toilet' thing isn't really a nerf. It's not like many people ever got to that perfect situation in any case =/
If I ever get motherships, its for vortex-splitting enemy armies.
It's like one big giant fucking sentry. And the patch DOESN'T change that. =/
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On February 26 2011 17:53 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 17:49 ChrisXIV wrote:
Protoss: Major nerf to high templars and the mothership. Don't know what the zealot change actually does...
Terran: Minor buff to battlecruisers, major nerf to bunkers, minor nerf to stimpack upgrade.
Zerg: The health+ on infestors is clearly a buff, but I have no idea about the changes on fungal growth.
I feel like this patch is an overreaction by Blizzard. HT warp-ins are very strong, sure, but expensive as hell. And without the option of an archon toilet(something that has been a known strategy for months) I don't think the mothership will ever be used again - maybe for base defence.
Bunker build time increased yet again. Meh. Next a factory is required to build a bunker... Honestly for all balance purposes, there really shouldn't be a single unit that can, at minimum, instant kill half your army with a few archon/colossus. If that means it's not used as much so be it, but that ability is absolutely ridiculous. There's no way to justify it.
Oh and doing 2k dmg with instant emp from ghosts is what all other ppl just seem to take for granted. not to mention disabling all of the spellcasters. oh AND ITS INSTANT too. u dont need to sit in the emp aoe for half a minute, just one second and u lost the whole game.
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EPT
