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Patch 1.3 on PTR - Page 67

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-26 09:13:22
February 26 2011 08:57 GMT
#1321
Warp prism microing ht(and ht positioning in general) will be a gamedecider in pvt. I kinda like that. But removing amulet entirely is too extreme, we will probably never see them again in pvp and pvz.
Mothership buff is stupid, why on earth would anyone get it now, it has absolutely no function. Also, you can counter the archon toilet with banelings, really no reason to nerf it.
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
Shockk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany2269 Posts
February 26 2011 08:57 GMT
#1322
I like that they're working on the custom game UI despite their marketplace probably not working out (which was the major reason why the UI looked the way it does). It's nice to see that they care, even if this could have come (should have come) months earlier.

The balance changes are decent as well. As a terran player I'm glad to see that there'll be no more freshly warped in templars wrecking havoc, and I can live with the increased stim research time as a trade-off. Too bad the viking flower will be removed though .
Scorch
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Austria3371 Posts
February 26 2011 08:57 GMT
#1323
On February 26 2011 17:53 Tachion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 17:49 ChrisXIV wrote:
Protoss: Major nerf to high templars and the mothership. Don't know what the zealot change actually does...
Terran: Minor buff to battlecruisers, major nerf to bunkers, minor nerf to stimpack upgrade.
Zerg: The health+ on infestors is clearly a buff, but I have no idea about the changes on fungal growth.

I feel like this patch is an overreaction by Blizzard. HT warp-ins are very strong, sure, but expensive as hell. And without the option of an archon toilet(something that has been a known strategy for months) I don't think the mothership will ever be used again - maybe for base defence.
Bunker build time increased yet again. Meh. Next a factory is required to build a bunker...

Honestly for all balance purposes, there really shouldn't be a single unit that can, at minimum, instant kill half your army with a few archon/colossus. If that means it's not used as much so be it, but that ability is absolutely ridiculous. There's no way to justify it.

Oh come on. It's the latest tech protoss has, attached to a one-of unit which is expensive, slow and takes ages to build and gather energy. It should be powerful, don't you think? How often have you seen the archon toilet in action in a pro game?
huyNh
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada366 Posts
February 26 2011 08:58 GMT
#1324
i'm lovin this BC buff, oh yeaaaaa
huyNh.703
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
February 26 2011 08:59 GMT
#1325
On February 26 2011 17:55 andrewwiggin wrote:
lol ...

the 'no more archon toilet' thing isn't really a nerf. It's not like many people ever got to that perfect situation in any case =/


See Squirtle vs MVP on Terminus. Squirtle Vortexed a clump of tanks and a zealot fell in. Tanks do friendly fire splash, so....it didn't end well for them. That's a little bullshit, and needed to be nerfed.

I guess Catz'll be happy.
Psychopomp
Profile Joined April 2010
United States237 Posts
February 26 2011 09:00 GMT
#1326
On February 26 2011 17:44 Nomad123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 17:28 spacenegroes wrote:
On February 26 2011 17:13 Nomad123 wrote:
On February 26 2011 16:54 Barca wrote:
On February 26 2011 16:52 Nomad123 wrote:
On February 26 2011 13:58 PikaXchU wrote:
Wait.. If there isn't amulet, how else do we deal with a huge ball of 30 mutalisks?!



by not letting zerg get 30 mutalisk in the first place and using the phoenix buff blizz gave you toss earlier???


lololololol.

There needs to be the ability to respond, not to pre-emptively counter, for a matchup to be balanced.



lolololol

so what have you been doing the whole time the zerg was making those 30 mutalisks? making probes? lololol


Have you ever played Starcraft 2? Zerg can make a decent number of lings and still have mutas out by 9 minutes. What do you do when 7-8 mutas show up to your base and you've got a similar number of stalkers? Mutas are meant to harass. They fly between your main and nat mineral lines, they pick off edge spotter pylons, etc. Your hapless stalkers have to squeeze single file through your ramp choke (which you needed to get to because of speedlings). So, do you:

A) Throw down 1-2 stargate(s) and start building phoenixes 1 by 1 and watch them get picked off, never reaching critical mass because zerg can hatch a bunch of mutas at once, or
B) Get blink and cannons to defend, which leaves you the option of getting HT if he keeps going mutas

Trolls should be banned, even on this thread.



have you ever played toss? you actually attack your phoenixes 1 by 1 to chunks of mutas? and you wonder why they die? lololol

your stalkers can hold off the muta harass early on while you do something, whether to build up your deathball or make some cannon or phoenixes (that's the point of the phoenix reduced time blizz gave toss DUH). terran has to make turrets, why can't toss make cannons? QQ much? cause toss need forge? oh right, so terran dont need some structure before building turrets right?

toss tears makes me smile






Terran also has mules giving them extra money for the turrets, turrets that do ridiculous DPS, stimmed marines, and Thors, Marines and Thors are all on Terran single tech path, and easily reached.

Protoss has the worst DPS per cost in the game as their main anti-air, cannons, and Phoenixes which may require going down a separate tech path altogether.

Protoss
Alive!US
Profile Joined November 2010
United States26 Posts
February 26 2011 09:00 GMT
#1327
Protoss changes are STUPID. Removing amulet makes ghosts way too strong and CE vs templars considering protoss wont be able to warp in more storms. Also emp decimates protoss units already doing thousands of damage per blast.

Mothership change makes getting one SILLY instead of just not-particularly-viable.
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
February 26 2011 09:01 GMT
#1328
On February 26 2011 17:57 Scorch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 17:53 Tachion wrote:
On February 26 2011 17:49 ChrisXIV wrote:
Protoss: Major nerf to high templars and the mothership. Don't know what the zealot change actually does...
Terran: Minor buff to battlecruisers, major nerf to bunkers, minor nerf to stimpack upgrade.
Zerg: The health+ on infestors is clearly a buff, but I have no idea about the changes on fungal growth.

I feel like this patch is an overreaction by Blizzard. HT warp-ins are very strong, sure, but expensive as hell. And without the option of an archon toilet(something that has been a known strategy for months) I don't think the mothership will ever be used again - maybe for base defence.
Bunker build time increased yet again. Meh. Next a factory is required to build a bunker...

Honestly for all balance purposes, there really shouldn't be a single unit that can, at minimum, instant kill half your army with a few archon/colossus. If that means it's not used as much so be it, but that ability is absolutely ridiculous. There's no way to justify it.

Oh come on. It's the latest tech protoss has, attached to a one-of unit which is expensive, slow and takes ages to build and gather energy. It should be powerful, don't you think? How often have you seen the archon toilet in action in a pro game?


It's not that expensive for a unit which instantly kills whole your army. Players like Kiwikaki were using fast mothership with archons and they are deadly, you can't even come close or you lose everything. Remember in his game like ~25+ mutas tried to snipe mothership but he made toilet and killed all muta, so 400/400 for a unit who deals damage 2500/2500 resources is a good trade don't you think?
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
Joementum
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
787 Posts
February 26 2011 09:02 GMT
#1329
On February 26 2011 17:48 Demarini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 17:44 DooMDash wrote:
On February 26 2011 17:40 Demarini wrote:
A lot of Terrans are forgetting the thing called micro(SHOCKER!). Storm does 80 dmg..over like, 5 seconds or something. That's insane. If you literally take half a second to move your units out, the damage is minimal. What if a Toss loses a fight now with this nerf? With all the money invested in the 44 second wonder, they will get stomped outright.

Storm where they are going? Not hard.


I can say the same for EMP. There's no justifying this nerf...and the Colossi deathball is still op as fuck. I like to watch more than play, and watching some nice HT play is 10x more fun than retarded 1a Colossi.


Don't forget the 1a2a3a2ffffffggg! I love watching Protoss use storms effectively. I doubt we'll see much of it anymore if they go through with this.
A marine walks into a bar and asks, "Wheres the counter?"
Azn_Christian
Profile Joined September 2010
United States153 Posts
February 26 2011 09:02 GMT
#1330
So..for the Mamma ship..do those units do damage still?? or is it like a statis field in sc1 where they can't take dmg or move or attack??

No clue why they removed the Amulet upgrade. They already removed the void ray speed upgrade O.o. So toss will not have any upgrades at this rate =(
Infester seems like a nurf to me since fg was the main reason to use them, since neural parasite got nurfed =(
Life appears to me too short to be spent in nursing animosity or registering wrongs." - Charlotte Bronte, Jane Eyre
emecee
Profile Joined September 2010
United States222 Posts
February 26 2011 09:02 GMT
#1331
On February 26 2011 17:43 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 17:02 WhiteLight wrote:
Did everyone forget the the HT in bw? They did not get the ability to start with storm either and they had to take 50s to build like all the other races instead of being able to just be instantly warped in anywhere like they are now. Yet dispite this they were still used in ALL 3 MUs and played critical roles. Now Does the amulet nerf make HT useless now? No! Does it make them harder to use? Yes! The nerf now mean that you have to plan when you want to warp in your HT and when you want to attack. It also means that if you want to have storm ready in your base incase you get attacked or lose the battle, that you need to do it Before then battle and not after.


As a D+/low Diamond player, my grasp of the game is far from ideal, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but in Brood War:

Templar Archives also allowed access to Dark Templar, providing the Protoss with a means to maintain some form of pressure on the opponent while researching Psi Storm and waiting for High Templar to have the necessary energy (because Citadel of Adun/Twilight Council, Templar Archives, Psi Storm research and getting Templar takes quite a bit of time and investment to get a return from) which is not available to players teching for High Templar in StarCraft 2.

Also, there's these differences:

BW Marine: 40 hp./WoL Marine: 45/55 hp.
BW Firebat: 50 hp./WoL Marauder: 125 hp.
BW Ghost: 45 hp./WoL Ghost: 100 hp.
(Not that anyone would try using bio against High Templar anyway in Brood War)
BW Vulture: 80 hp./WoL Hellion: 90 hp.
BW Siege Tank: 150 hp/WoL Siege Tank: 160 hp.
BW Goliath: 125 hp./WoL Thor: 400 hp.
Zerg stayed mostly the same, except that they have Roaches now.

BW Storm: 112 damage/WoL Storm: 80 damage

(Stats taken from the StarCraft wiki)

So you see, Storm does less damage, while most units have more life. And given that the tech path provides fewer alternatives (Dark Templar, Dark Archons (not really...)) what was true is Brood War is not necessarily true in Wings of Liberty, so your comparison is, unless I am mistaken, flawed.


sentries and the fact that units clump up more in starcraft 2 makes you're rebuttal flawed.
413X
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden203 Posts
February 26 2011 09:03 GMT
#1332
If the HT change comes in, they atleast should make EMP an 200 200 upgrade with no upgrade for +25 energy. ATLEAST.
The pro noob
Striding Strider
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom787 Posts
February 26 2011 09:04 GMT
#1333
On February 26 2011 18:03 413X wrote:
If the HT change comes in, they atleast should make EMP an 200 200 upgrade with no upgrade for +25 energy. ATLEAST.


Exactly.
I have a beard. I'm unprofessional.
.Enigma.
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden1461 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-26 09:06:26
February 26 2011 09:04 GMT
#1334
On February 26 2011 10:54 andrewwiggin wrote:

- Funal growth with +30% against armoured? DAMN. now that's a buff.. O_O



Duration is halfed and it's not instant anymore though, so it feels more like a nerf.
"Jupiters c*ck!" - Quintus Lentulus Batiatus
JeBi
Profile Joined December 2010
United States44 Posts
February 26 2011 09:05 GMT
#1335
In the 1.3 PTR, Broodlords cost 300 / 250 to morph........ instead of 150/150. I hope this change doesn't stay.
OdiousTea
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia357 Posts
February 26 2011 09:06 GMT
#1336
Seriously? No more instant storm templars? i think tat just forces me to make colo again =.=
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
February 26 2011 09:06 GMT
#1337
On February 26 2011 18:05 JeBi wrote:
In the 1.3 PTR, Broodlords cost 300 / 250 to morph........ instead of 150/150. I hope this change doesn't stay.

....they doubled the mineral cost and added 100 gas? That's gigantic.
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
February 26 2011 09:06 GMT
#1338
On February 26 2011 18:05 JeBi wrote:
In the 1.3 PTR, Broodlords cost 300 / 250 to morph........ instead of 150/150. I hope this change doesn't stay.


I think that's a mistake.
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
Lachrymose
Profile Joined February 2008
Australia1928 Posts
February 26 2011 09:06 GMT
#1339
On February 26 2011 18:02 emecee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 17:43 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
On February 26 2011 17:02 WhiteLight wrote:
Did everyone forget the the HT in bw? They did not get the ability to start with storm either and they had to take 50s to build like all the other races instead of being able to just be instantly warped in anywhere like they are now. Yet dispite this they were still used in ALL 3 MUs and played critical roles. Now Does the amulet nerf make HT useless now? No! Does it make them harder to use? Yes! The nerf now mean that you have to plan when you want to warp in your HT and when you want to attack. It also means that if you want to have storm ready in your base incase you get attacked or lose the battle, that you need to do it Before then battle and not after.


As a D+/low Diamond player, my grasp of the game is far from ideal, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but in Brood War:

Templar Archives also allowed access to Dark Templar, providing the Protoss with a means to maintain some form of pressure on the opponent while researching Psi Storm and waiting for High Templar to have the necessary energy (because Citadel of Adun/Twilight Council, Templar Archives, Psi Storm research and getting Templar takes quite a bit of time and investment to get a return from) which is not available to players teching for High Templar in StarCraft 2.

Also, there's these differences:

BW Marine: 40 hp./WoL Marine: 45/55 hp.
BW Firebat: 50 hp./WoL Marauder: 125 hp.
BW Ghost: 45 hp./WoL Ghost: 100 hp.
(Not that anyone would try using bio against High Templar anyway in Brood War)
BW Vulture: 80 hp./WoL Hellion: 90 hp.
BW Siege Tank: 150 hp/WoL Siege Tank: 160 hp.
BW Goliath: 125 hp./WoL Thor: 400 hp.
Zerg stayed mostly the same, except that they have Roaches now.

BW Storm: 112 damage/WoL Storm: 80 damage

(Stats taken from the StarCraft wiki)

So you see, Storm does less damage, while most units have more life. And given that the tech path provides fewer alternatives (Dark Templar, Dark Archons (not really...)) what was true is Brood War is not necessarily true in Wings of Liberty, so your comparison is, unless I am mistaken, flawed.


sentries and the fact that units clump up more in starcraft 2 makes you're rebuttal flawed.


of course sc2 storm is also smaller, units are easier to select and issue a move command to and units path much better.

his rebuttal was storm isn't as good in sc2 as bw. it is true.
~
Joementum
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
787 Posts
February 26 2011 09:07 GMT
#1340
On February 26 2011 18:05 JeBi wrote:
In the 1.3 PTR, Broodlords cost 300 / 250 to morph........ instead of 150/150. I hope this change doesn't stay.


HAHAHA. Holy shit. If this is true, then Zerg is the most useless race in the game. LMAO. I can't wait to play Zerg on the new patch if this happens!

On February 26 2011 18:02 emecee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 17:43 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
On February 26 2011 17:02 WhiteLight wrote:
Did everyone forget the the HT in bw? They did not get the ability to start with storm either and they had to take 50s to build like all the other races instead of being able to just be instantly warped in anywhere like they are now. Yet dispite this they were still used in ALL 3 MUs and played critical roles. Now Does the amulet nerf make HT useless now? No! Does it make them harder to use? Yes! The nerf now mean that you have to plan when you want to warp in your HT and when you want to attack. It also means that if you want to have storm ready in your base incase you get attacked or lose the battle, that you need to do it Before then battle and not after.


As a D+/low Diamond player, my grasp of the game is far from ideal, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but in Brood War:

Templar Archives also allowed access to Dark Templar, providing the Protoss with a means to maintain some form of pressure on the opponent while researching Psi Storm and waiting for High Templar to have the necessary energy (because Citadel of Adun/Twilight Council, Templar Archives, Psi Storm research and getting Templar takes quite a bit of time and investment to get a return from) which is not available to players teching for High Templar in StarCraft 2.

Also, there's these differences:

BW Marine: 40 hp./WoL Marine: 45/55 hp.
BW Firebat: 50 hp./WoL Marauder: 125 hp.
BW Ghost: 45 hp./WoL Ghost: 100 hp.
(Not that anyone would try using bio against High Templar anyway in Brood War)
BW Vulture: 80 hp./WoL Hellion: 90 hp.
BW Siege Tank: 150 hp/WoL Siege Tank: 160 hp.
BW Goliath: 125 hp./WoL Thor: 400 hp.
Zerg stayed mostly the same, except that they have Roaches now.

BW Storm: 112 damage/WoL Storm: 80 damage

(Stats taken from the StarCraft wiki)

So you see, Storm does less damage, while most units have more life. And given that the tech path provides fewer alternatives (Dark Templar, Dark Archons (not really...)) what was true is Brood War is not necessarily true in Wings of Liberty, so your comparison is, unless I am mistaken, flawed.


sentries and the fact that units clump up more in starcraft 2 makes you're rebuttal flawed.


Clumping up should not be a reason to nerf the HT at all. That's something a player needs to take care of. It's called micro.
A marine walks into a bar and asks, "Wheres the counter?"
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