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On February 26 2011 14:02 Sky0 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 13:55 Demarini wrote:On February 26 2011 13:53 Sky0 wrote:On February 26 2011 13:52 Demarini wrote:On February 26 2011 13:50 flexy wrote:On February 26 2011 13:49 Joementum wrote:
Two things that would make this game fun and playable for everyone.
Nerf god damn marauders. They do too much damn damage to buildings and armored units. Make concussive shells more expensive and have a longer research time. Concussive shells just rape any early Protoss army too easily.
Fix Marine's DPS. 50 minerals for the best DPS in the game. What bullshit. They were already great in Broodwar. I seriously can't believe Blizzard though giving them 15 more HP would help this game. No they need to nerf stalkers they shouldnt be just as good as mauraders vs tanks and stuff and completely destroy air.. and they are fast as hell.. I can't believe you just said nerf one of the most cost inefficient units in the game. Ever heard of getting upgrades like idk maybe blink that makes stalkers pretty cost effective if you ask me. And then transition into Templar. Wait a second........... Edit- I need a building..a whole freakin building to get my upgrades to make my gateway units cost effective. Hurr techlab. That was hard. Real big risk going down that road. actually if you think about hmm i can get blink then transition to HT a little bit faster. I have a harass unit with blink stalkers and a observer. Now that youve got your HT out a little bit early by the time storm is done researching youll have enough energy for storm. Wait that would mean youd have to actually have skill and be able to think to play a race. gtfo and stop qqing cause your 50 apm cant beat an ape playing Starcraft banging on his keyboard.
I'm not sure if you've heard, but....
High Templar
- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed.
I mean, if you want to invest all your money into a one trick pony that if you run out of energy with slightly poor storms your whole army gets facerolled, be my guest. If I ever start to play this game again, it will be Robo tech every game unless a rare situation calls for something else.
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On February 26 2011 14:05 shakenbake wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 14:01 Heavenly wrote:On February 26 2011 13:59 shakenbake wrote:
they should have nerfed colossus instead of templar. why the bunker nerf? why the retarded infestor change? 170 seconds for stim? what the fuck. they are making things worse. um..have you ever seen a 2 rax bunker rush versus a zerg? It's hilarious how difficult it is for a zerg to hold, and how it puts the terran behind not at all. Ever seen what a stim timing push can do versus any race, especially protoss? Lmao I'm assuming you're a terran who relied on 2 rax bunker and stiming pushes in the early game, if you honestly can't see the point of the nerf. maybe 15 hatch isnt all that safe? maybe try pool first like every other race.
It wasn't until supply b4 rax, bunker nerd, and the deletion of the reaper that Zerg can always fe
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On February 26 2011 14:04 kNightLite wrote:Infestor HP change is good, 3 tank shots instead of 2. I'm not sure why they needed to change fungal though, I feel like they need to improve either Neural Parasite or Infested Terran instead. Making NP castable while burrowed and reducing the Infested Terrans egg-hatching time would be much better than messing with FG imo.
Fungal Growth was pretty strong with an 8 second stun. With that new zerg style emerging against P (zling/bling/infestor) it was brutal to stay even
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So going templar is now even less viable than it originally was? How absolutely fantastic. As if Protoss wasn't already too dependent on forcefields and colossus.
Also with the fungal nerf, not only can phoenixes dodge fungal now, but Zergs also only have half the amount of time to get queens or hydras in range to actually damage them. Seriously blizzard, what the fuck? You could've at least lowered the infestor pit cost and/or buildtime so they came out fast enough to stop a marine push. Then the increased DPS would actually matter and we wouldn't have to rely so much on banelings.
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On February 26 2011 14:02 Sky0 wrote:
actually if you think about hmm i can get blink then transition to HT a little bit faster. I have a harass unit with blink stalkers and a observer. Now that youve got your HT out a little bit early by the time storm is done researching youll have enough energy for storm. Wait that would mean youd have to actually have skill and be able to think to play a race. gtfo and stop qqing cause your 50 apm cant beat an ape playing Starcraft banging on his keyboard.
Now don't be so reductive to yourself. I'm sure not all Terran players are just apes banging on their keyboard.
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tvz - zerg 15 hatch, terran bunker rush, zerg QQ
pvz zerg 15 hatch, protoss cannon rush, no QQ? oh wait Z learned to pool first.
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i rarely tech to storms unless its a PvT that goes into the late game as it is now, after patch i will probably never build a twillight council.
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On February 26 2011 14:08 flexy wrote:
edit nvm. seems good tho
well if you nvm then i nvm
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On February 26 2011 14:01 flexy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 13:57 101toss wrote:
Late game stalkers are terrible. The scaling is broken. Stalker gets +1 per weap up, while roach gets +2. Roaches have higher dps then stalkers at +2 ups, and are half as cheap. zerg doesnt have big ol colossus completely destroying your stalkers though
i researched this a little and found that stalkers used to have an upgrade that gave them line damage similar to night elf glaive throwers.
but roaches deal 16 damage every 2 seconds for 8 dps and at +2 have 10 dps.
stalkers deal 10(+4) damage every 1.44 seconds for 6.94(9.72) DPS and at +2 have 8.33(11.11)
so stalkers have more dps and more hp (though zerg regeneration evens this out almost exactly) at +2, at least vs roaches.
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On February 26 2011 13:58 PikaXchU wrote:
Wait.. If there isn't amulet, how else do we deal with a huge ball of 30 mutalisks?!
T_T Forgot about that joy. Sweet. So that's why I open Stargate in PvZ.
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What the fuck? No Khaydarin Amulet upgrade and mothership nerf ? what the fuck Blizzard? Why do you have to nerf protoss so bad like that? Now no more HTs or mothership play anymore, Protoss now stick with colossus again ? fucking destroy the creativeness of protoss player sir.
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On February 26 2011 14:09 Ksi wrote:
So going templar is now even less viable than it originally was? How absolutely fantastic. As if Protoss wasn't already too dependent on forcefields and colossus.
Also with the fungal nerf, not only can phoenixes dodge fungal now, but Zergs also only have half the amount of time to get queens or hydras in range to actually damage them. Seriously blizzard, what the fuck? You could've at least lowered the infestor pit cost and/or buildtime so they came out fast enough to stop a marine push. Then the increased DPS would actually matter and we wouldn't have to rely so much on banelings.
srsly if you need to build infestors to stop 5 phx from doing dmg than its your fault and not game imbalance.
i for myself think that the fungal change is a good one. more damage>more stun imo
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Really seems like blizzard wants to see colossi in every single game without exception.
Why do they hate micro so much?
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On February 26 2011 14:05 shakenbake wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 14:01 Heavenly wrote:On February 26 2011 13:59 shakenbake wrote:
they should have nerfed colossus instead of templar. why the bunker nerf? why the retarded infestor change? 170 seconds for stim? what the fuck. they are making things worse. um..have you ever seen a 2 rax bunker rush versus a zerg? It's hilarious how difficult it is for a zerg to hold, and how it puts the terran behind not at all. Ever seen what a stim timing push can do versus any race, especially protoss? Lmao I'm assuming you're a terran who relied on 2 rax bunker and stiming pushes in the early game, if you honestly can't see the point of the nerf. maybe 15 hatch isnt all that safe? maybe try pool first like every other race.
Yeah bro you're right, as a protoss I always pool first. Lol @ going pool first, you do realize hatch first is done because zerg require larva? Lings are extremely larva inefficient, and zergs have a limited number of larva they either have to spend on lings or drones, whereas protoss or terran can make workers and units simultaneously. Fake 2 rax pressure then backing off, forcing spine crawlers or lings, puts the zerg further behind, while the terran can simply take an expansion, throw up a couple bunkers and be safe against anything. And then you have two base terran around the same time as 2 base zerg, always a wonderful thing.
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On February 26 2011 13:42 Paradice wrote:
In general, I'm really not liking the direction they seem to be going, where to try and solve balance they nerf things and remove upgrades. (void ray speed, now amulet, I'm sure there are others but can't quite think of them right now). I would much rather flip it around, balance by making more upgrade options. Provides more variation on mid/endgame (oh he's got marine stim but not marauder stim, how's that gonna play out?), more room for innovation in orders, more shortcuts to be taken. The thinking that led to Concussive Shells being an upgrade instead of by default. The last thing I want is more tech paths like Dark Shrine, where it's just an empty building... that's not that exciting.
Could not agree more. It makes me think back to bw where if you looked at any one of certain units and abilities for each race it'd be hard to not cry "broken!" at first glance. I mean the concept behind dark swarm (negates almost all damage from the entire terran race in an area) and other abilities seemed ridiculously strong, but it worked as a whole. I very much agree with the general sentiment that instead of simply removing abilities altogether, they should add some other ones! Variety is a big part of what is what will keep this game interesting in the long run. And I really feel like these proposed changes do almost the exact opposite of generate variety.
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On February 26 2011 14:10 shakenbake wrote:
tvz - zerg 15 hatch, terran bunker rush, zerg QQ
pvz zerg 15 hatch, protoss cannon rush, no QQ? oh wait Z learned to pool first.
Even if Z pools at 14, the Terran can still get 2 bunkers up before the Zerglings are in cost-effective numbers. What the hell do you expect 4 zerglings can do against 2-3 well micro'd marines? They won't do shit. The fact that Zergs have to pull off 6-7 drones, a queen and get 4-6 zerglings to make sure they fend off a rush that will cost the terran 200 minerals if they fail it is quite ridiculous. Not only that, but Zergs need to expo way before any other race. Have you played 1 base zerg against 1 base terran or protoss? How badly did the Zerg lose?
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Soo many Terrans are thinking to themselves "lol, Blizz were gonna nerf me? What was I even worried about?" and then plopping down a couple more rax right now.
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On February 26 2011 13:55 Emokes wrote:
So they fuking remove Khaydarin Amulet but leave in the ghost and infester one ? WTF that is so stupid i dont see how that makes any sense at all.
The difference is that T and Z can't instantly warp-in EMP and Fungal on-demand the way a P can currently do with HT+Amulet.
As a T and Z player, you need infestors and ghosts ready, before a battle, in order to use them effectively. As a P player, you need to have a pylon nearby and a free warp-gate. It's not a fair mechanic.
What they SHOULD have done, though, is adjust the HT starting energy with the amulet upgrade such that a P would have to wait 10 seconds or so to use their newly-warped-in HT.
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On February 26 2011 14:10 shakenbake wrote:
tvz - zerg 15 hatch, terran bunker rush, zerg QQ
pvz zerg 15 hatch, protoss cannon rush, no QQ? oh wait Z learned to pool first.
some months ago: pvz 2 gate vs fast hatch -> blizz: 2gate is actually imbalanced vs zerg and zealots needs a nerf (even though it was easier to hold than all the terran cheese nowadays). roaches got their range buff: who would ever redo the zealot nerf? buffing protoss? wtf?
months and full gsls of 2 rax + scv all ins: no its actually balanced, zerg just need to man up and learn to defend.
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EPT
