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On February 26 2011 13:08 Whitewing wrote:
Most people here are missing the point:
It doesn't matter if high templar are balanced now or not. The fact is, they are rarely used in comparison the alternative (the colossus) which is used way too often. If you nerf High Templar, especially in this particular way, you'll never see HT's used again.
And I HATE colossus.
This is how I feel about it. I love playing HTs and I hate colossi play. Nerfing the amulet pretty much forces me to go colossi in almost every situation.
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On February 26 2011 13:20 Ezekyle wrote:
This is freaking Starcraft, stop trying to make it easy to play.
With that philosophy, blizzard would lose the entire casual gamer market
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On February 26 2011 13:20 jaearess wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 13:13 KonohaFlash wrote:On February 26 2011 13:08 Shooks wrote:On February 26 2011 13:00 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 26 2011 12:39 Kratisto wrote:High Templar
- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed. I quit. Oh right, constructive discussion. What was wrong with Templar before? Protoss, Terran, and Zerg all had good responses to Templar tech (EMP and high health units, roach regen). I guess we'll be seeing even more Colossus-centric Protoss strategy, if that's even possible. Most people disagree with you. Templars broke TvP lategame into oblivion. Most of the people that disagree in bronze, just saying, and the ones that aren't, are still not experimenting with mech play, I don't even know why the whole TvP lategame is OP for protoss is still being brought up, ever since we saw IMMvp vs Squirtle we saw the transition into mech is strong, IMMvp just played it wrong. Then why don't you Show all us Terrans how we're supposed to play Mech? This game has been out for how many months? All you're brought up is Jinro and MVP. What are you trying to say about Mech? That only people at the pro level can utilize it properly? If the vast majority of Terrans out there excluding MVP and Jinro are having trouble using Mech against toss what does that say? That they're all shitty players? The game should only be balanced for the highest level of play. Everyone else can improve so much about their play than balance tweaks aren't necessary for them.
Yo dude. I think that Blizzard actually has stated several times, that they try to cater to the top level players when making balance changes. It might be the case with this patch aswell.
Using this logic one could also say that all the shitty tosses should improve their game and use templars effeciently.
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I ask myself why didn't they use GSL maps...I mean, its a possitive change that some bad maps are gone. As a protoss played, i actually dont like small maps at all. However, I just can't understand why they didn't just use gsl maps for ladder...
Terran changes are fine, perhaps reduce effectiveness of stim instead of increasing the research time.
Mothership nerf? the vortex was the only thing i build a mothership for... now i might just vortex my own units to make them invulnerable?... I wonder if theres a way to use FFs to make the units in the vortex stay together.
HT nerf? Makes protoss more colossi dependant even if that was possible. HT's opening are going to be very weak in PvT and its going to be hard to stay away from colossi. Perhaps a reduce in +energy of the amulet would have been better?
Infestor change? hm, against bio its going to be better, however i can't really say anything as i haven't seen the speed of the missile... i wonder if it gets cancelled by PDD
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You actually still can do Viking flower, but instead of patrolling in a line, you have to do it in a tiny triangle. If you get what I mean
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On February 26 2011 13:20 jaearess wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 13:13 KonohaFlash wrote:On February 26 2011 13:08 Shooks wrote:On February 26 2011 13:00 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 26 2011 12:39 Kratisto wrote:High Templar
- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed. I quit. Oh right, constructive discussion. What was wrong with Templar before? Protoss, Terran, and Zerg all had good responses to Templar tech (EMP and high health units, roach regen). I guess we'll be seeing even more Colossus-centric Protoss strategy, if that's even possible. Most people disagree with you. Templars broke TvP lategame into oblivion. Most of the people that disagree in bronze, just saying, and the ones that aren't, are still not experimenting with mech play, I don't even know why the whole TvP lategame is OP for protoss is still being brought up, ever since we saw IMMvp vs Squirtle we saw the transition into mech is strong, IMMvp just played it wrong. Then why don't you Show all us Terrans how we're supposed to play Mech? This game has been out for how many months? All you're brought up is Jinro and MVP. What are you trying to say about Mech? That only people at the pro level can utilize it properly? If the vast majority of Terrans out there excluding MVP and Jinro are having trouble using Mech against toss what does that say? That they're all shitty players? The game should only be balanced for the highest level of play. Everyone else can improve so much about their play than balance tweaks aren't necessary for them.
Why get better when I can 4gate to masters?
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"Units leaving the Mothership's Vortex are now un-targetable and immune to damage for 1.5 seconds"
Well, no more archon toilet. We will never see the mothership again.
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Mothership
- Units leaving the Mothership's Vortex are now un-targetable and immune to damage for 1.5 seconds.
So does that mean Archon toilets are no longer possible?
I'm pretty much okay with the rest of the changes especially the amulet but this would make the mothership pretty much unusable and its usage was already very slim to begin with.
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On February 26 2011 13:15 fadestep wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 13:13 KonohaFlash wrote:On February 26 2011 13:08 Shooks wrote:On February 26 2011 13:00 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 26 2011 12:39 Kratisto wrote:High Templar
- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed. I quit. Oh right, constructive discussion. What was wrong with Templar before? Protoss, Terran, and Zerg all had good responses to Templar tech (EMP and high health units, roach regen). I guess we'll be seeing even more Colossus-centric Protoss strategy, if that's even possible. Most people disagree with you. Templars broke TvP lategame into oblivion. Most of the people that disagree in bronze, just saying, and the ones that aren't, are still not experimenting with mech play, I don't even know why the whole TvP lategame is OP for protoss is still being brought up, ever since we saw IMMvp vs Squirtle we saw the transition into mech is strong, IMMvp just played it wrong. Then why don't you Show all us Terrans how we're supposed to play Mech? This game has been out for how many months? All you're brought up is Jinro and MVP. What are you trying to say about Mech? That only people at the pro level can utilize it properly? If the vast majority of Terrans out there excluding MVP and Jinro are having trouble using Mech against toss what does that say? The argument that Terran requires a pro level of play to utilize compared to other races actually just left me in tears. I guess anything above 1a + T would be considered pro level play for a Terran.
You obviously didn't understand the tone of my post. I was saying that's basically what Shooks Is saying, is that since Jinro and MVP had some success with mech, it means that mech is completely and utterly viable, when that isn't the case.
The only times mech has a great deal of success, is when the opponent doesn't scout it. However if they scout it, they'll just go the robo,stargate tech-path and rofl-stomp the slow army, and even use warp-prisms to attack mineral lines.
Now you could place a tank in your mineral line, yes but it's still not going to prevent zealots from charging towards it and killing it.
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On February 26 2011 13:24 Blasterion wrote:
You actually still can do Viking flower, but instead of patrolling in a line, you have to do it in a tiny triangle. If you get what I mean
You probably just made some terrans cry lol
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On February 26 2011 13:25 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 13:20 jaearess wrote:On February 26 2011 13:13 KonohaFlash wrote:On February 26 2011 13:08 Shooks wrote:On February 26 2011 13:00 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 26 2011 12:39 Kratisto wrote:High Templar
- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed. I quit. Oh right, constructive discussion. What was wrong with Templar before? Protoss, Terran, and Zerg all had good responses to Templar tech (EMP and high health units, roach regen). I guess we'll be seeing even more Colossus-centric Protoss strategy, if that's even possible. Most people disagree with you. Templars broke TvP lategame into oblivion. Most of the people that disagree in bronze, just saying, and the ones that aren't, are still not experimenting with mech play, I don't even know why the whole TvP lategame is OP for protoss is still being brought up, ever since we saw IMMvp vs Squirtle we saw the transition into mech is strong, IMMvp just played it wrong. Then why don't you Show all us Terrans how we're supposed to play Mech? This game has been out for how many months? All you're brought up is Jinro and MVP. What are you trying to say about Mech? That only people at the pro level can utilize it properly? If the vast majority of Terrans out there excluding MVP and Jinro are having trouble using Mech against toss what does that say? That they're all shitty players? The game should only be balanced for the highest level of play. Everyone else can improve so much about their play than balance tweaks aren't necessary for them. Why get better when I can 4gate to masters?
Because when you get to masters by 4gating you'll have no idea what to do against competent players.
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On February 26 2011 13:22 JSkates wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 13:08 Whitewing wrote:
Most people here are missing the point:
It doesn't matter if high templar are balanced now or not. The fact is, they are rarely used in comparison the alternative (the colossus) which is used way too often. If you nerf High Templar, especially in this particular way, you'll never see HT's used again.
And I HATE colossus. This is how I feel about it. I love playing HTs and I hate colossi play. Nerfing the amulet pretty much forces me to go colossi in almost every situation.
OR make templar ahead of time.
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The more I think about this the more I am convinced that Blizzard is completly deaf to the community. We all agree that we would like to see less use of collosi from protoss and more variety. So instead of nerfing Collosi they nerf the only viable option, HT. Khaydarin Amulet is ESSENTIAL! If you choose HT tech now you WILL lose! Blizz are you drunk? Take one of the most interesting units in the game and nerf the fuck out of it why dont ya. While your at it lets take seige away from SEIGE tanks. Ya useless fucks.
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On February 26 2011 13:23 gakkgakk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 13:20 jaearess wrote:On February 26 2011 13:13 KonohaFlash wrote:On February 26 2011 13:08 Shooks wrote:On February 26 2011 13:00 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 26 2011 12:39 Kratisto wrote:High Templar
- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed. I quit. Oh right, constructive discussion. What was wrong with Templar before? Protoss, Terran, and Zerg all had good responses to Templar tech (EMP and high health units, roach regen). I guess we'll be seeing even more Colossus-centric Protoss strategy, if that's even possible. Most people disagree with you. Templars broke TvP lategame into oblivion. Most of the people that disagree in bronze, just saying, and the ones that aren't, are still not experimenting with mech play, I don't even know why the whole TvP lategame is OP for protoss is still being brought up, ever since we saw IMMvp vs Squirtle we saw the transition into mech is strong, IMMvp just played it wrong. Then why don't you Show all us Terrans how we're supposed to play Mech? This game has been out for how many months? All you're brought up is Jinro and MVP. What are you trying to say about Mech? That only people at the pro level can utilize it properly? If the vast majority of Terrans out there excluding MVP and Jinro are having trouble using Mech against toss what does that say? That they're all shitty players? The game should only be balanced for the highest level of play. Everyone else can improve so much about their play than balance tweaks aren't necessary for them. Yo dude. I think that Blizzard actually has stated several times, that they try to cater to the top level players when making balance changes. It might be the case with this patch aswell. Using this logic one could also say that all the shitty tosses should improve their game and use templars effeciently.
He's saying that two of the best Terran's in world can use mech effectively, but no one else can (not really true, but I'll go with it.) What I'm saying is, the game should be balanced around what people can do at the highest levels--what you said has nothing to do with that.
If MC was using Templar effectively, and smashing everyone with the Archon toilet, you might have a point. He's not, so your post is basically a non sequitur.
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Storm awarded the terrans with a brain who didn't clump up there mmm into one ball and spread it out to avoid splash. Or actually used micro to get away instead of standing in it like most of them do. Not to change the fact we have to waste a warp in on getting a unit that cannot attack/call in nukes/go invisible and is incredible weak to any attacks/ archons are not cost effective and get destroyed by the ever so hard kiting ability of concussion shells.
T is a poor excuse for shitty play/tier1/all ins and honestly if you think that mech play is immobile you have never had siege tanks dropped on the back of your natural on lost temple. If you want to see immobile drop on a colossus ball that is up on multiple bases. If im not patrolling phoenixs/voids or have cannons up you kill a a nexus with stim marauders then just fly away. Playing vs T is the most frustrating thing in the world and nerfing amulet is just fucking ridiculous. Like making stim 30 more seconds is going to change anything especially if we transition to macro oriented maps in the future.
4 Gate easy to do T? How many times have you guys won using cloaked banshee,
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cant belive they remved amult.... how can toss evn deal with teran drops now???? cant believ it... lol
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Does the league locking take effect now? Or when 1.3 comes out? I'm trying to break to masters atm!
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On February 26 2011 13:26 LoLAdriankat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 13:25 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 13:20 jaearess wrote:On February 26 2011 13:13 KonohaFlash wrote:On February 26 2011 13:08 Shooks wrote:On February 26 2011 13:00 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 26 2011 12:39 Kratisto wrote:High Templar
- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed. I quit. Oh right, constructive discussion. What was wrong with Templar before? Protoss, Terran, and Zerg all had good responses to Templar tech (EMP and high health units, roach regen). I guess we'll be seeing even more Colossus-centric Protoss strategy, if that's even possible. Most people disagree with you. Templars broke TvP lategame into oblivion. Most of the people that disagree in bronze, just saying, and the ones that aren't, are still not experimenting with mech play, I don't even know why the whole TvP lategame is OP for protoss is still being brought up, ever since we saw IMMvp vs Squirtle we saw the transition into mech is strong, IMMvp just played it wrong. Then why don't you Show all us Terrans how we're supposed to play Mech? This game has been out for how many months? All you're brought up is Jinro and MVP. What are you trying to say about Mech? That only people at the pro level can utilize it properly? If the vast majority of Terrans out there excluding MVP and Jinro are having trouble using Mech against toss what does that say? That they're all shitty players? The game should only be balanced for the highest level of play. Everyone else can improve so much about their play than balance tweaks aren't necessary for them. Why get better when I can 4gate to masters? Because when you get to masters by 4gating you'll have no idea what to do against competent players.
Or I can continue 4gating in masters 0.0
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Wow. Protoss just got even more retarded. No fix to colossus against zerg, and their other option (storm) just got even weaker.
Looks like protoss will even more be either 4-gates or unstoppable colossus death-balls, barring the various midgame gimmicks (stargate bullshit against zerg, or DT's)
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EPT
