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Warping Units’ Damage Taken - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
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kAra
Profile Joined September 2004
Germany1467 Posts
March 02 2011 10:17 GMT
#81
i was always wondering about this... thx for trying it out!
mada mada dane
Silu
Profile Joined June 2010
Finland165 Posts
March 02 2011 10:29 GMT
#82
On March 02 2011 19:15 freetgy wrote:
I would like that Warp-ins took additional damage since it would severly weaken cheesy warpgate all-ins, but in the otherside how should P defend drops? if they even take additional damage from the most costeffectiv combo M&M?...


How about not warping units IN HIS FACE but rather 10 yards away?
freetgy
Profile Joined November 2010
1720 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-02 10:38:33
March 02 2011 10:34 GMT
#83
and give him time more time to kill important stuff?
i don't even mind nexus snipes, since you are when macroed well most times alittle bit ahead.

Terran wasting 2000dmg for doing 400 minerals dmg on a nexus instead of killing like Robo/RoboBay/TC/Templar Arcives
that is damage that hurts a lot more cause it delays essential tech to survive incoming pushes.
Thrombozyt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1269 Posts
March 02 2011 14:09 GMT
#84
On March 02 2011 19:34 freetgy wrote:
and give him time more time to kill important stuff?
i don't even mind nexus snipes, since you are when macroed well most times alittle bit ahead.

Terran wasting 2000dmg for doing 400 minerals dmg on a nexus instead of killing like Robo/RoboBay/TC/Templar Arcives
that is damage that hurts a lot more cause it delays essential tech to survive incoming pushes.


So giving him 8 seconds instead of 5 by warping in out of range drops become imba? Damn.. how do other races cope, when their units take 25+ seconds until they pop out of their structure?

And by what logic do you get a refund, when your warpin is canceled due to the destruction of your pylon?
DestroManiak
Profile Joined December 2010
257 Posts
March 02 2011 14:15 GMT
#85
On March 02 2011 23:09 Thrombozyt wrote:
And by what logic do you get a refund, when your warpin is canceled due to the destruction of your pylon?



I am a terran player and that makes perfect sense.
If a barrack is destroyed all the queued units will be refunded.

Also let me restate: If you have 2 marauders and target fire a warping in stalker, you can kill that stalker instanly (as it wont have full hp) opposed to trying to take out a full hp stalker.
Also if you have melee units (zergling/scv what ever) you definitely want to surround warping in units
nekuodah
Profile Joined August 2010
England2409 Posts
March 02 2011 14:18 GMT
#86
This should be fixed will help the pvp 4 gate warping up ramp bs aswell as helping other races. (im a protoss player)
freetgy
Profile Joined November 2010
1720 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-02 14:26:57
March 02 2011 14:20 GMT
#87
On March 02 2011 23:09 Thrombozyt wrote:
So giving him 8 seconds instead of 5 by warping in out of range drops become imba? Damn.. how do other races cope, when their units take 25+ seconds until they pop out of their structure?


Warping in is what balance the slow movement of Protoss Units out.
other Races have faster units (Zerg) or Units with more Range (Terran+STIM Movement Boost), thanks for not understanding the game...


And by what logic do you get a refund, when your warpin is canceled due to the destruction of your pylon?


that's the same for all Races as far as i am aware.
Would be very abusable also if it wasn't designed like that.
ch4ppi
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany802 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-02 14:27:07
March 02 2011 14:21 GMT
#88
say what 0.o?

So much senseless target firing! Good find

Warping in is what balance the slow movement of Protoss Units out.
Last edit: 2011-03-02 23:21:04
other Races have faster units in general, thanks for not understanding the game...


This has nothing to do with the topic, its not about moving faster form A-B. Blizzard originally stated that they want the Protoss to be sure to warp in at safe locations, because otherwise they will loose the warping units easily.

Obviously they didnt want this to be in the game anymore. Which is a little sad =/
Well there is still the very unlikely possibility that this is actually a bug. If someone would like to make a thread on Bnet forums and ask for it. It would be extremly interesting.
freetgy
Profile Joined November 2010
1720 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-02 14:38:30
March 02 2011 14:33 GMT
#89
On March 02 2011 23:21 ch4ppi wrote:
This has nothing to do with the topic, its not about moving faster form A-B. Blizzard originally stated that they want the Protoss to be sure to warp in at safe locations, because otherwise they will loose the warping units easily.


well i don't know that,
but there would be few reason to get warpgates, if Protoss Units were as mobile as Zerg, obviously.
Movement speed of Army plays a huge role in defending the bases.

Why can Zerg secure a 3,4 base so easily? because it is so mobile.
Why can Terran secure a 3 very easily? because PF+Repair make it easier to defend
Why can Protoss secure a 3? because he can position his army closer to the third due to the Warp-in mechanic to buy time. P doesn't have has good base defense (thats Terran) neither has he Speed (thats Zerg), warpgate is what makes up for that.

Stimmed M&M can easily outrun a P Army even if it comes to deflect the push, that is why well executed Drops are so hard to defend, and why warpins are necessary, if the P units were alittle faster, nobody would warp in units but defend with their actual army.

ch4ppi
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany802 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-02 14:47:20
March 02 2011 14:45 GMT
#90
On March 02 2011 23:33 freetgy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2011 23:21 ch4ppi wrote:
This has nothing to do with the topic, its not about moving faster form A-B. Blizzard originally stated that they want the Protoss to be sure to warp in at safe locations, because otherwise they will loose the warping units easily.


well i don't know that,
but there would be few reason to get warpgates, if Protoss Units were as mobile as Zerg, obviously.
Movement speed of Army plays a huge role in defending the bases.

Why can Zerg secure a 3,4 base so easily? because it is so mobile.
Why can Terran secure a 3 very easily? because PF+Repair make it easier to defend
Why can Protoss secure a 3? because he can position his army closer to the third due to the Warp-in mechanic to buy time. P doesn't have has good base defense (thats Terran) neither has he Speed (thats Zerg), warpgate is what makes up for that.

Stimmed M&M can easily outrun a P Army even if it comes to deflect the push, that is why well executed Drops are so hard to defend, and why warpins are necessary, if the P units were alittle faster, nobody would warp in units but defend with their actual army.



dude calm down 0.o you are WAY offtopic, its not a bout removing warpin or calling it imbalanced or sth. The thread has nothing to do with removing warpgate or anything, its just about a mechanic that was definately in the game for a long time and got kinda removed secretly without notice, at least it seems like that.
So calm down, stop whining.
ICA
Profile Joined January 2011
498 Posts
March 02 2011 14:52 GMT
#91
Did not know this and always thought that they take additional damage, at least it feels like it ingame.
But actually focusing units that are warping in is wrong anyhow cause these units will only deal damage later whereas other units are doing damage right now. So actually I don't think that it does make a huge difference, only if there are no other units in range.
TedJustice
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1324 Posts
March 02 2011 17:13 GMT
#92
Nice experiment. I think what they mean by "extra damage" though is just that they can be killed quicker since they don't start with full hp. The earlier you target fire a warping in unit, the more "extra damage" you're doing to it, in essence.

And as for that one person who mentioned people who target spinecrawlers when they uproot, the reason that's smart is because that's the best time to get in range of them without them killing you. The same applies to warping in units as well. You can kill a warping in zealot with fewer zerglings than you'd need to kill one that can attack back.
ch4ppi
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany802 Posts
March 02 2011 17:16 GMT
#93
On March 03 2011 02:13 TedJustice wrote:
Nice experiment. I think what they mean by "extra damage" though is just that they can be killed quicker since they don't start with full hp. The earlier you target fire a warping in unit, the more "extra damage" you're doing to it, in essence.



Im nearly 100% sure that it has been 33% more dmg taken, while warping in.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26004 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-02 17:19:20
March 02 2011 17:18 GMT
#94
Yea! I always thought they took extra damage because I had read it, but in the back of my mind I never felt like they actually did. But I was too lazy to test it.

I'm really glad you tested this. Thank you

Edit: I hope they change this. Warping in units should take extra damage, or have their warp in time delayed, or something.
Moderator
Kralic
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada2628 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-02 17:24:10
March 02 2011 17:23 GMT
#95
I always targetted warped in units because I also thought they took more damage.

I think the assumption of extra damage could have been attributed to if you react quickly enough you can kill them quicker because they warp in starting at 1hp or something low and as the time goes on they get more of their hp until it is 100% warped in.

You can kill units warping in quickly if you react fast enough.

Brood War forever!
ZergForHire
Profile Joined February 2011
United States22 Posts
March 02 2011 17:27 GMT
#96
I think the warp in technology is fine as far as balance goes. This is fair in comparison to Zerg's overbundant amount of larva and Terran's ability to train infantry in pairs.

But warp gate technology should be trained indvidually from each gateway, just like that of reactor and techlab. investing 50/50 and having the ability to warp in units in 5 seconds doesnt seem right as far as balance goes. However, i grant that the balance is fair as far as production goes, just not the tech required to get there.
Dustin : "We dont know yet."
MoreFaSho
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1427 Posts
March 02 2011 17:30 GMT
#97
On March 03 2011 02:23 Kralic wrote:
I always targetted warped in units because I also thought they took more damage.

I think the assumption of extra damage could have been attributed to if you react quickly enough you can kill them quicker because they warp in starting at 1hp or something low and as the time goes on they get more of their hp until it is 100% warped in.

You can kill units warping in quickly if you react fast enough.


This. Maybe if the warp in health was non-linear it would be better, but there's still a mechanic to kill warping in units to effectively take "extra damage". It might be worth considering a change since the match-up it affects most by far is PvP and it could make 4-gate a little weaker while still being viable, double damage would probably be too much though.
I always try to shield slam face, just to make sure it doesnt work
DestroManiak
Profile Joined December 2010
257 Posts
March 02 2011 17:57 GMT
#98
What I actually think would be a good idea is: a single zerg egg should not take more damage then a gateway or a barracks would :D
Im not sure but killing a gateway/rax is easier than killing an egg right?
ch4ppi
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany802 Posts
March 02 2011 20:35 GMT
#99
On March 03 2011 02:27 ZergForHire wrote:
I think the warp in technology is fine as far as balance goes. This is fair in comparison to Zerg's overbundant amount of larva and Terran's ability to train infantry in pairs.

But warp gate technology should be trained indvidually from each gateway, just like that of reactor and techlab. investing 50/50 and having the ability to warp in units in 5 seconds doesnt seem right as far as balance goes. However, i grant that the balance is fair as far as production goes, just not the tech required to get there.

Is there any of u guys reading the thread in any way?
Its not about a comparision with other races mechanics...god dammits guys what up with all you...

Its about a sneaky buff, that gives a toss the opportunity to warp in really everywhere without thinking about it, because u wont need to take a risk if u proxypylon or cheese.
Chill is right.

This sneak buff just buffed cheeseplay (also 4gate), since those strategies often involve infight warp ins.
oxxo
Profile Joined February 2010
988 Posts
March 02 2011 21:43 GMT
#100
Great find. I like everyone else here thought that they took extra damage (I guess from beta time too). Seems like changing it would affect 4gate in PvP the most making it a good solution to the problem.
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