Warning. Useless comments that are deemed to be flame/troll bait = ban. If you have criticism, thats fine but you better have amazing support to back up your opinion. Otherwise ban.

tomatriedes

New Zealand5356 Posts

March 03 2011 16:28 GMT

#1181

On March 02 2011 04:06 5unrise wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm serious.. I even asked him and he says he doesn't own the game at all. Yet he still thinks he should be able to speak

LOL, Rabiator is the same guy who argued for ages that pre-patch reapers were completely balanced. I wouldn't take him too seriously.

Hazomg

9 Posts

March 03 2011 16:29 GMT

#1182

Does anyone have a link to a replay or VOD of a Protoss doing this build?

Thanks in advanced

dazaris

Australia23 Posts

March 06 2011 03:06 GMT

#1183

Definately think that Idra and Artosis jumped the gun here by declaring this imbalanced. Squirtle recently tried this build against Idra in the current IEM. Had a maxed army with 4 Collosi and 12 Voidrays and Idra just focused down the Collosi with a bunch of corruptors, remaxed on Hydras and mopped up what's left. This was the only time either Squirtle or Ace tried this build against Idra at IEM. If this was an imbalanced strategy that guarantees a win versus Zerg you'd definitely see it a lot more often in both IEM and GSL which we haven't seen at all since this video was released.

Replay is here for those interested:
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/(Z)EGIdrA_vs_(P)Squirtle_scrap_station_sc2rep_com_20110303/5768

latan

740 Posts

March 06 2011 03:22 GMT

#1184

white-ra tried it too and wasn't succeful

TigerKarl

1757 Posts

March 06 2011 03:28 GMT

#1185

I think the top players have found a good way to deal with the Colossus Void Ray Death Ball.
But most players below ~ Master 3300 really struggle with this build.
It takes much more skill to defeat this Protoss Unit Combination than executing it.

jere

United States121 Posts

March 06 2011 04:48 GMT

#1186

On March 06 2011 12:28 TigerKarl wrote:
I think the top players have found a good way to deal with the Colossus Void Ray Death Ball.
But most players below ~ Master 3300 really struggle with this build.
It takes much more skill to defeat this Protoss Unit Combination than executing it.

But this is true of many builds. Pick the wrong one or execute one badly and lose. Push out at an odd time with more units vs tech or expantion and win. There are a few unit combination that can put the other player on the back foot or win outright. It happens and will happen for some time and then will change for something else. Thats why I like this game. There can be short games and long games one never knows what you will get.

dunc

Netherlands1105 Posts

March 06 2011 04:54 GMT

#1187

No it doesn't. It's not hard to make Corrupters and then remax your army with a better army composition. This is one of the strengths of Zerg and yet many Master's Zergs fail hard at it.

Mykill

Canada3402 Posts

March 06 2011 04:57 GMT

#1188

corrupters really hurt this build, phoenix opener then 6gate colossus is pretty good imo.
But dealing with corruptors is actually so difficult, I've tried builds so often and corruptors are just so good T_T

ALang

Canada288 Posts

March 06 2011 05:09 GMT

#1189

I'm pretty sure I see protoss lose with this build more than win with it. Clear out the air with a ton of corruptors and toss cannot afford to have a ground army after.

Hellhammer

Canada144 Posts

March 06 2011 05:13 GMT

#1190

So is episode 4 ever coming out? Or did they just kill the show? Or is it delayed because Idra is moving?

rycho

United States360 Posts

March 06 2011 05:15 GMT

#1191

i think the only point of this was to say zvp was too hard because of colossus and they did that so its probably over

Ansinjunger

United States2451 Posts

March 06 2011 05:28 GMT

#1192

I hate to just spew out day9 sayings like I own them, but all of these counters require "getting" them. Early phoenix/void ray basically forces hydras and gives map control although is weak against lings. The map control makes taking a 3rd rather difficult unless you're on a huge map (ladder-wise, <3 Typhon Peaks). And it's very difficult to know if the protoss is going warp gate heavy if you can't scout at all. You're already having serious problems with supply cap as soon as the first air unit kills an overlord and you have to make a ton of them unless you want to sacrifice your scout overlords in the name of scouting.

IMO the best solution is going to be getting 4-5 queens early. They start to do really well when you begin to have multiple transfusions and creep is always good. Later, they are actually better anti air than hydras when you consider that they live way longer and can heal the roaches or corruptors on the front, and they have 7 range opposed to 6. The best part though is negating the phoenix harass if you have enough queens to kill them during a drone lift (or more likely, the second lift).

Parodoxx

United States549 Posts

March 06 2011 05:39 GMT

#1193

So yeah Artosis and Idra dont like protoss, is that the premise of this show??

Raiznhell

Canada786 Posts

March 06 2011 05:42 GMT

#1194

On March 06 2011 14:39 Parodoxx wrote:
So yeah Artosis and Idra dont like protoss, is that the premise of this show??

They don't like Terran either. Unless Terran Mechs in TvP lol then Artosis approves.

usethis2

2164 Posts

March 06 2011 05:54 GMT

#1195

I think the imbaness of this strat has been shown well throughout this season of GSL. PvZ is without a doubt the most imbalanced match up at the moment. Watch SanZenith v Nestea, SanZenith v TheWind, or AnyproPrime v Fruitdealer/Kyrix games. I loved SanZenith's plays but at the same time the response required by Z to beat P is overwhelmingly heavy compared to the easiness of execution by P.

Forge opening is almost unstoppable for Z while Z has to worry about offensive cannons, and once the expansion is up P has better economy. Immediately throw down a Stargate and produce VR/Phoenix, hunting overloads and queens, while completely controlling the map. Throw down Robo and from there build toward the death ball according to the scouting information gathered by Pheonix. Once the deathball is created you move out and win.

So far the most successful strats from Z's are:

1. Early roach/hydra push (map dependent, very allin-ish but can definitely works)
2. Nydus (difficult to pull off, obviously can't do it more than once in Bo3/5)
3. Burst produce mutas/corruptors, preferably without letting P know ahead (very unreliable strat as anyone can imagine, often leading to base-trading situation)
4. Mass queens (I see this in ladder games quite often but not in pro games, I assume pros know better - especially GSL-size maps)
5. Drops (this seems to have the highest success rate so far)

Very early Lair to Hydra rush and drops seem most reliable but they both are huge investment and kind of allin-ish whichever way you look at it since unless the first drop doesn't do significant damage the successive drops will be less and less efficient.

Lennon

United Kingdom2275 Posts

March 06 2011 06:32 GMT

#1196

On February 26 2011 10:30 deathly rat wrote:

Show nested quote +

Ok, fine I watched the show and now I have a little less respect for both these guys. Can't you see that the whole "counter" argument is circuitous. What they are talking about is almost every unit in the Protoss army all joined together in the perfect proportions like that just happens. There is a ton of things Zerg can do to mess with Protoss trying to get his perfect army, using Nydus worms just one of them that they didn't mention.

It does "just happen". P sits on 2 base and creates the perfect unit combination. Nydus worms are crap especially when the P only has to defend 2 bases. However, Roach/Hydra drops off 2 base are a possibility.

Kevlar622

United States49 Posts

March 06 2011 06:46 GMT

#1197

GAHHH!! the dreadded voidlossus... i hate late game against protoss because of this build precisely, but when im playing with my protoss buddy, and he goes voidlossus while i defend early pushes, i always enjoy the results ;D

Swissm

United States207 Posts

March 06 2011 06:54 GMT

#1198

Kinda hard to test these builds on ladder because you can't open forge on any ladder map PVZ except for Scrap...

EliteReplay

Dominican Republic913 Posts

March 06 2011 07:12 GMT

#1199

On March 01 2011 19:24 PkP wrote:
Defensive mass muta beats this hands down, deny scouting with queens and overseers and hide your mutas in a corner until the death ball arrives. It absolutely demolishes void colossus, so no I don't agree this is imbalanced at all.

http://www.2shared.com/file/NY5cR5UA/Void_Colossus_vs_mutas_lol.html

this guy was his first time doing the build, and he execute it bad, u have to do the void raid first
in order to make Z wastes money on queen or spore, or maybe go ahead with hydras
and this guy didnt know about your 3rd expo, witch can be scouted with the 1first void
and denied for u + killing ovis