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Warning. Useless comments that are deemed to be flame/troll bait = ban. If you have criticism, thats fine but you better have amazing support to back up your opinion. Otherwise ban. |
On February 17 2011 01:16 RotterdaM wrote:
Last time I did Void Ray Colussi vs a Wc3 zerg he sniped off 4/5 void rays before the fight even started, I never did it again, all you need is micro and abuse the map, unless your dealing with 350 stalkers but then 1 might wanna ask himself how a toss can be on mass ray colussi and mass blink stalkers which need upgrades to take out Colussi ;D
that's not fair, you crushed me 3 times, yeah, the last 2 included phoenixe harass at the start, but ultimately Colo-stargatestuff-warpgatestuff is very similar however you do
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On February 17 2011 02:27 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 02:20 freetgy wrote:
build some overseers to snipe observers?...
and initiate your techswitch?
hell fast hive, mass Corrupter clean up then morph fast into broodlords should work.
Maxxing out with Colossus and Voidrays takes ages!
insisting on playing "as usual", is what hurts you guys. And why is it that protoss and terran have so much diversity in their build ? Because they are safe. You can say whatever you want, but just play zerg, try to not play "as usual", you will see. You will die for nothing a hundred time, because you made a tiny mistake, forgot an overlord, took your gaz too late, bad scout.
the other races are the same
it just that zergs can be more greedy and get away with it.
You want to play your game, but you get punished for it cause you make a poor decision.(letting them get maxxed)
it is obvious by the replies here, people don't want to switch their playstyle even alittle, there are styles that can beat this imbalanced composition. period.
Roach/Hydra better than any non colossus build Protoss can throw at you.
hell for the sake of trying you could go mass infestor, fungal everything and take over all colossus.
(if P can get colossus for 200 each voidrays 150 each on 2 bases you will be able to your enough infestors for 150 each on 3 bases)
nothing can hit infestors since only colossus could reach but whose are in your control. NP
get hydras from remainng resources and kill them from out of their range.
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A while ago a friend and I tested it in the editor to see if it was beatable. If I recall correctly I believe that while pure muta or pure corrupter will get slaughtered, because of the interaction between muta splash and corruption, a mix of muta + corrupter is capable of beating this composition. This isn't to say the strategy as a whole is or is not imbalanced, just that a max void ray colossus army can be beaten straight up in an endgame situation. I forget exactly, but i think we tested it using 140 supply army for either side to allow 70 workers, and the colossus count was around 6.
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Can the OP please add on replays showing how "unstoppable" this is. (and for future episodes)
Because we can purely pick out what Z is doing wrong to let such a gas heavy strat work.
Too many "i feel" and/or "i think". Makes it hard to get a good perspective of things,
unfortunately i would have to agree to most of the warned/banned ppl posting on this episode...
But i think you guys should add-on replays and video clips, it would make the long 30 minute lecture more appealing.
Ive personally never tried this strat, it seems way way too risky.
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On February 17 2011 02:41 br0fivE wrote:
Can the OP please add on replays showing how "unstoppable" this is. (and for future episodes)
Because we can purely pick out what Z is doing wrong to let such a gas heavy strat work.
Every second ZvP on shakuras ir vs. this strat at least for me^^
The thing is you can't really do much and punish toss. I mean yeah you can make nydus or drop and win a game but that is not an answer.
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whenever its just straight up macro with no engagements zerg has so low chance to win
i hope they nerf ff or colosus or voidray, or buff corruptor really
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On February 17 2011 02:48 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 02:41 br0fivE wrote:
Can the OP please add on replays showing how "unstoppable" this is. (and for future episodes)
Because we can purely pick out what Z is doing wrong to let such a gas heavy strat work. Every second ZvP on shakuras ir vs. this strat at least for me^^ The thing is you can't really do much and punish toss. I mean yeah you can make nydus or drop and win a game but that is not an answer.
agreed. I'm a toss player that's been doing this strat and not gonna lie, it's extremely hard to lose. Recently I purchased a second account to ladder with zerg just because I love the race but don't want to tank my toss account. I've only beaten this build once and that was b/c i doom dropped his main and forced him to engage on his ramp so we traded armies. It just feels way too strong. I used to tell my friends to stop QQing about toss and this build but now that i've experienced playing against it, it's damn hard to beat.
Another thing i would like to point out that mass muta actually works well against this, but we're talking close to a maxed army of mutas lol so good luck getting that much gas with upgrades before the toss moves out to A: take a 3rd after they're pretty much maxed or B: go kill you
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On February 17 2011 02:52 MorroW wrote:
whenever its just straight up macro with no engagements zerg has so low chance to win
i hope they nerf ff or colosus or voidray, or buff corruptor really
...further compounded by zerg having the weakest defense and ability to turtle, it doesn't make sense.
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if toss gets 200/200 with collosi and voyd ray and you didnt tech to t3 or have only roaches,you shoudlt cry for imbalanced
PS:call this show please:frustration (shoutout to SotG)
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On February 17 2011 02:56 JustinMartin wrote:
if toss gets 200/200 with collosi and voyd ray and you didnt tech to t3 or have only roaches,you shoudlt cry for imbalanced
PS:call this show please:frustration (shoutout to SotG)
How about a replay of zerg getting tier 3 before toss gets 200/200? Nevermind that zerg tier 3 isn't great against this build anyways.
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Wouldn't it be a lot more benificial to the community to make a show about how to attempt to deal with these situations? I understand that people are frustrated by these builds, but it really feels like thinly veiled whining. It's fine to mention somethig that may be imba, make a thread even, but a whole show seems so over the top. I have lost respect for artosis due to this show.
If you guys want to make a show, strategy or gameplay advice would be soooo much better.
Just my two cents...
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On February 17 2011 02:52 MorroW wrote:
whenever its just straight up macro with no engagements zerg has so low chance to win
i hope they nerf ff or colosus or voidray, or buff corruptor really
a buff to corruptor would make the most sense. nerfing FF or Colo might make toss too weak early game like idra and artosis pointed out. obviously late game FF and colo is extremely strong
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On February 17 2011 03:00 brutality wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 02:52 MorroW wrote:
whenever its just straight up macro with no engagements zerg has so low chance to win
i hope they nerf ff or colosus or voidray, or buff corruptor really a buff to corruptor would make the most sense. nerfing FF or Colo might make toss too weak early game like idra and artosis pointed out. obviously late game FF and colo is extremely strong
They could also just nerf late game FF by limited the number you can have out at once or something, it would have no effect on early game in that case.
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On February 17 2011 02:59 HarryHood wrote:
Wouldn't it be a lot more benificial to the community to make a show about how to attempt to deal with these situations? I understand that people are frustrated by these builds, but it really feels like thinly veiled whining. It's fine to mention somethig that may be imba, make a thread even, but a whole show seems so over the top. I have lost respect for artosis due to this show.
If you guys want to make a show, strategy or gameplay advice would be soooo much better.
Just my two cents...
That's exactly what they are doing. Actually they are not sitting there for 30 minutes saying "Man, Colossus/Void Ray is so imbalanced". They discuss how to deal with the situations, but in this show they said that they didn't find any good counter to the Colossus/Void Ray death ball.
They discussed some possible solutions but they said that they aren't that effective and it's still very hard to deal with this death ball.
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On February 17 2011 03:01 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 03:00 brutality wrote:On February 17 2011 02:52 MorroW wrote:
whenever its just straight up macro with no engagements zerg has so low chance to win
i hope they nerf ff or colosus or voidray, or buff corruptor really a buff to corruptor would make the most sense. nerfing FF or Colo might make toss too weak early game like idra and artosis pointed out. obviously late game FF and colo is extremely strong They could also just nerf late game FF by limited the number you can have out at once or something, it would have no effect on early game in that case.
yeah i've heard that suggestion before and it's not a bad one, only prob is it is situational. so say we limit it to 5, well that's about all toss needs to split an army. ok lets go 3. well toss will only engage next to a ledge or something. still not a bad idea. maybe put a cool down on the sentries might be a good idea. forcing toss to make more sentries if they want more FF at once meaning they spend much more gas for FF and have less colo or upgrades. something to think about
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On February 17 2011 03:05 brutality wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2011 03:01 Treemonkeys wrote:On February 17 2011 03:00 brutality wrote:On February 17 2011 02:52 MorroW wrote:
whenever its just straight up macro with no engagements zerg has so low chance to win
i hope they nerf ff or colosus or voidray, or buff corruptor really a buff to corruptor would make the most sense. nerfing FF or Colo might make toss too weak early game like idra and artosis pointed out. obviously late game FF and colo is extremely strong They could also just nerf late game FF by limited the number you can have out at once or something, it would have no effect on early game in that case. yeah i've heard that suggestion before and it's not a bad one, only prob is it is situational. so say we limit it to 5, well that's about all toss needs to split an army. ok lets go 3. well toss will only engage next to a ledge or something. still not a bad idea. maybe put a cool down on the sentries might be a good idea. forcing toss to make more sentries if they want more FF at once meaning they spend much more gas for FF and have less colo or upgrades. something to think about
I really think it would be great for the game in the long run too. Forcefields are just insanely powerful, to the point that all protoss units will have to be weakened to keep it balanced. For it to be balanced at extremely high skill levels, they would have to balance around perfect forcefields, which I doubt we have even seen yet.
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Why not buff the corruptor's contimanate ability? Maybe you could make it weaker but give it a splash radius. The bad thing about going heavy corruptor is that your ground army suffers. If you do this it could become much more useful when colossi/vr are gone.
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how about nydus worm to get in early and wreck the economy
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Mutas are actually pretty good vs void rays. Have you tried a muta/corrupter mix?
Also infestors are good vs void rays due to fungal. Engage with air support, fungal when void rays charge up so you can back off, repeat.
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EPT
