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If you have criticism, you need to address the content, not the hosts. Idra and Artosis are 2 (1.5) Zerg players, but you can't point that out and then blanket them as biased. Respond to the content.
You can't tell them to "get 2 Terran and Protoss players". That's fucking obtuse advice. "Yo just get 4 more high level players to record with you." Yes, I think everyone sees the value in getting it, but it's not practical.
Respond to the content and use evidence / logic to back up your claims. |
Zerg has some flaws that need fixing before the ghost won't be considered OP in TvZ.
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wait this got bumped is there a new peisode?
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On December 08 2011 23:48 DarK[A] wrote:
Zerg has some flaws that need fixing before the ghost won't be considered OP in TvZ.
Why does strong automatically equal OP?
It's not like lategame ZvT is impossible, or that terran is having huge win rates against zerg. If anything terran tends to lose in macro games and excel in shorter ones.
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On December 08 2011 19:38 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 19:08 Baobab wrote:
I play Zerg so I might be slightly biased, but I do feel that Ghosts are slightly overpowered.
They counter BLs, Ultras, Infestors, and Mutas, nuke is awesome harass late-game when the Z has a ton of bases, and cloak makes it tough to kill them (they can snipe overseers/EMP infestors sooo damn quickly). With good micro, I'd say the odds in the late-game are heavily stacked in the Ghost-wielding T's favor.
I'd like to see them unable to snipe ultralisks, that way they dont counter ALL Z T3 and Z doesn't get the feeling of, "Wow, nothing I have can beat Ghosts." Banelings aren't even that good - iirc Ghosts aren't considered light units, and Terran will usually still have a decent number of tanks on the field. T still has Marauders as a great counter to Ultras.
Just my 2 cents. Given the strength of Zerg instant massive tech switches by lategame, Terrans need some kind of multipurpose unit who's able to deal with your two tier3 paths (Marines don't do that well against Ultralisks, and though they would be OK against Broodlord alone, they usually can't fight Broodlords head-on because of Infestor support). It's true that Marauders are a great counter to Ultras, but they're not efficient supply against ling/broodling if you switch to Broodlords; same goes for Vikings if you switch to Ultras after the Broodlords went down.
This is the best post I have seen yet regarding this endless ghosts QQ'ing. Terrans absolutely need ghosts late game or its over, and nearly instantly. And yes, becuase that tech switch only reuires a single building instead of multiple factories or barracks etc then the snipe needs to counter multiple units.
I know there is a lot of complaining about how you cant get close enough to the ghosts to kill them but that goes for many, many units in this game. It makes it come down to a micro battle, just like terrans have to do an insane amount of micro in order to beat a colossus or HT inside a deathball. The ghost snipe is fine, there is just a learning curve in dealing with them, I wish it wasn't so easy to just claim OP and forget about ever evolving strategies.... I think terran is the most fragile race in the game right now due to instant warp-ins and mass larvae. If they get another nerf at this point in the balancing game then they will be unplayable.
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Stats just came out of Korea and TvZ is less imbalanced than ZvP so before whining about ghosts, how about whine about mutas? 
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On December 09 2011 02:03 NKsc2 wrote:Stats just came out of Korea and TvZ is less imbalanced than ZvP so before whining about ghosts, how about whine about mutas?
Protoss are 52% PVZ in korea ^^
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On December 09 2011 00:00 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 19:38 TheDwf wrote:On December 08 2011 19:08 Baobab wrote:
I play Zerg so I might be slightly biased, but I do feel that Ghosts are slightly overpowered.
They counter BLs, Ultras, Infestors, and Mutas, nuke is awesome harass late-game when the Z has a ton of bases, and cloak makes it tough to kill them (they can snipe overseers/EMP infestors sooo damn quickly). With good micro, I'd say the odds in the late-game are heavily stacked in the Ghost-wielding T's favor.
I'd like to see them unable to snipe ultralisks, that way they dont counter ALL Z T3 and Z doesn't get the feeling of, "Wow, nothing I have can beat Ghosts." Banelings aren't even that good - iirc Ghosts aren't considered light units, and Terran will usually still have a decent number of tanks on the field. T still has Marauders as a great counter to Ultras.
Just my 2 cents. Given the strength of Zerg instant massive tech switches by lategame, Terrans need some kind of multipurpose unit who's able to deal with your two tier3 paths (Marines don't do that well against Ultralisks, and though they would be OK against Broodlord alone, they usually can't fight Broodlords head-on because of Infestor support). It's true that Marauders are a great counter to Ultras, but they're not efficient supply against ling/broodling if you switch to Broodlords; same goes for Vikings if you switch to Ultras after the Broodlords went down. This is the best post I have seen yet regarding this endless ghosts QQ'ing. Terrans absolutely need ghosts late game or its over, and nearly instantly. And yes, becuase that tech switch only reuires a single building instead of multiple factories or barracks etc then the snipe needs to counter multiple units. I know there is a lot of complaining about how you cant get close enough to the ghosts to kill them but that goes for many, many units in this game. It makes it come down to a micro battle, just like terrans have to do an insane amount of micro in order to beat a colossus or HT inside a deathball. The ghost snipe is fine, there is just a learning curve in dealing with them, I wish it wasn't so easy to just claim OP and forget about ever evolving strategies.... I think terran is the most fragile race in the game right now due to instant warp-ins and mass larvae. If they get another nerf at this point in the balancing game then they will be unplayable.
Somewhere, Jakji and MVP are smirking.
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On December 09 2011 00:00 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 19:38 TheDwf wrote:On December 08 2011 19:08 Baobab wrote:
I play Zerg so I might be slightly biased, but I do feel that Ghosts are slightly overpowered.
They counter BLs, Ultras, Infestors, and Mutas, nuke is awesome harass late-game when the Z has a ton of bases, and cloak makes it tough to kill them (they can snipe overseers/EMP infestors sooo damn quickly). With good micro, I'd say the odds in the late-game are heavily stacked in the Ghost-wielding T's favor.
I'd like to see them unable to snipe ultralisks, that way they dont counter ALL Z T3 and Z doesn't get the feeling of, "Wow, nothing I have can beat Ghosts." Banelings aren't even that good - iirc Ghosts aren't considered light units, and Terran will usually still have a decent number of tanks on the field. T still has Marauders as a great counter to Ultras.
Just my 2 cents. Given the strength of Zerg instant massive tech switches by lategame, Terrans need some kind of multipurpose unit who's able to deal with your two tier3 paths (Marines don't do that well against Ultralisks, and though they would be OK against Broodlord alone, they usually can't fight Broodlords head-on because of Infestor support). It's true that Marauders are a great counter to Ultras, but they're not efficient supply against ling/broodling if you switch to Broodlords; same goes for Vikings if you switch to Ultras after the Broodlords went down. This is the best post I have seen yet regarding this endless ghosts QQ'ing. Terrans absolutely need ghosts late game or its over, and nearly instantly. And yes, becuase that tech switch only reuires a single building instead of multiple factories or barracks etc then the snipe needs to counter multiple units. I know there is a lot of complaining about how you cant get close enough to the ghosts to kill them but that goes for many, many units in this game. It makes it come down to a micro battle, just like terrans have to do an insane amount of micro in order to beat a colossus or HT inside a deathball. The ghost snipe is fine, there is just a learning curve in dealing with them, I wish it wasn't so easy to just claim OP and forget about ever evolving strategies.... I think terran is the most fragile race in the game right now due to instant warp-ins and mass larvae. If they get another nerf at this point in the balancing game then they will be unplayable.
Ya, I always wondered what Terran players told themselves so that they can sleep at night. Thanks for summing it up
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On December 09 2011 02:23 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 00:00 CaptainCrush wrote:On December 08 2011 19:38 TheDwf wrote:On December 08 2011 19:08 Baobab wrote:
I play Zerg so I might be slightly biased, but I do feel that Ghosts are slightly overpowered.
They counter BLs, Ultras, Infestors, and Mutas, nuke is awesome harass late-game when the Z has a ton of bases, and cloak makes it tough to kill them (they can snipe overseers/EMP infestors sooo damn quickly). With good micro, I'd say the odds in the late-game are heavily stacked in the Ghost-wielding T's favor.
I'd like to see them unable to snipe ultralisks, that way they dont counter ALL Z T3 and Z doesn't get the feeling of, "Wow, nothing I have can beat Ghosts." Banelings aren't even that good - iirc Ghosts aren't considered light units, and Terran will usually still have a decent number of tanks on the field. T still has Marauders as a great counter to Ultras.
Just my 2 cents. Given the strength of Zerg instant massive tech switches by lategame, Terrans need some kind of multipurpose unit who's able to deal with your two tier3 paths (Marines don't do that well against Ultralisks, and though they would be OK against Broodlord alone, they usually can't fight Broodlords head-on because of Infestor support). It's true that Marauders are a great counter to Ultras, but they're not efficient supply against ling/broodling if you switch to Broodlords; same goes for Vikings if you switch to Ultras after the Broodlords went down. This is the best post I have seen yet regarding this endless ghosts QQ'ing. Terrans absolutely need ghosts late game or its over, and nearly instantly. And yes, becuase that tech switch only reuires a single building instead of multiple factories or barracks etc then the snipe needs to counter multiple units. I know there is a lot of complaining about how you cant get close enough to the ghosts to kill them but that goes for many, many units in this game. It makes it come down to a micro battle, just like terrans have to do an insane amount of micro in order to beat a colossus or HT inside a deathball. The ghost snipe is fine, there is just a learning curve in dealing with them, I wish it wasn't so easy to just claim OP and forget about ever evolving strategies.... I think terran is the most fragile race in the game right now due to instant warp-ins and mass larvae. If they get another nerf at this point in the balancing game then they will be unplayable. Ya, I always wondered what Terran players told themselves so that they can sleep at night. Thanks for summing it up
Haha, epic response.
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Doesn't this thread represent everything against the "no whining" "no balance discussion" of TL? How could this thread be still open?
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On December 09 2011 02:32 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 02:23 Halcyondaze wrote:On December 09 2011 00:00 CaptainCrush wrote:On December 08 2011 19:38 TheDwf wrote:On December 08 2011 19:08 Baobab wrote:
I play Zerg so I might be slightly biased, but I do feel that Ghosts are slightly overpowered.
They counter BLs, Ultras, Infestors, and Mutas, nuke is awesome harass late-game when the Z has a ton of bases, and cloak makes it tough to kill them (they can snipe overseers/EMP infestors sooo damn quickly). With good micro, I'd say the odds in the late-game are heavily stacked in the Ghost-wielding T's favor.
I'd like to see them unable to snipe ultralisks, that way they dont counter ALL Z T3 and Z doesn't get the feeling of, "Wow, nothing I have can beat Ghosts." Banelings aren't even that good - iirc Ghosts aren't considered light units, and Terran will usually still have a decent number of tanks on the field. T still has Marauders as a great counter to Ultras.
Just my 2 cents. Given the strength of Zerg instant massive tech switches by lategame, Terrans need some kind of multipurpose unit who's able to deal with your two tier3 paths (Marines don't do that well against Ultralisks, and though they would be OK against Broodlord alone, they usually can't fight Broodlords head-on because of Infestor support). It's true that Marauders are a great counter to Ultras, but they're not efficient supply against ling/broodling if you switch to Broodlords; same goes for Vikings if you switch to Ultras after the Broodlords went down. This is the best post I have seen yet regarding this endless ghosts QQ'ing. Terrans absolutely need ghosts late game or its over, and nearly instantly. And yes, becuase that tech switch only reuires a single building instead of multiple factories or barracks etc then the snipe needs to counter multiple units. I know there is a lot of complaining about how you cant get close enough to the ghosts to kill them but that goes for many, many units in this game. It makes it come down to a micro battle, just like terrans have to do an insane amount of micro in order to beat a colossus or HT inside a deathball. The ghost snipe is fine, there is just a learning curve in dealing with them, I wish it wasn't so easy to just claim OP and forget about ever evolving strategies.... I think terran is the most fragile race in the game right now due to instant warp-ins and mass larvae. If they get another nerf at this point in the balancing game then they will be unplayable. Ya, I always wondered what Terran players told themselves so that they can sleep at night. Thanks for summing it up Haha, epic response.
Sorry to interrupt your circlejerk, but could you please point out where the oh-so imbalanced ghost dominance shows up?
In the foreign scene where terran hasn't won a tournament in god knows how long?
In Korea where terran players abuse the shit out of early game timings, and we see ghosts in maybe 1 game out of 5?
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On December 09 2011 02:42 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 02:32 mierin wrote:On December 09 2011 02:23 Halcyondaze wrote:On December 09 2011 00:00 CaptainCrush wrote:On December 08 2011 19:38 TheDwf wrote:On December 08 2011 19:08 Baobab wrote:
I play Zerg so I might be slightly biased, but I do feel that Ghosts are slightly overpowered.
They counter BLs, Ultras, Infestors, and Mutas, nuke is awesome harass late-game when the Z has a ton of bases, and cloak makes it tough to kill them (they can snipe overseers/EMP infestors sooo damn quickly). With good micro, I'd say the odds in the late-game are heavily stacked in the Ghost-wielding T's favor.
I'd like to see them unable to snipe ultralisks, that way they dont counter ALL Z T3 and Z doesn't get the feeling of, "Wow, nothing I have can beat Ghosts." Banelings aren't even that good - iirc Ghosts aren't considered light units, and Terran will usually still have a decent number of tanks on the field. T still has Marauders as a great counter to Ultras.
Just my 2 cents. Given the strength of Zerg instant massive tech switches by lategame, Terrans need some kind of multipurpose unit who's able to deal with your two tier3 paths (Marines don't do that well against Ultralisks, and though they would be OK against Broodlord alone, they usually can't fight Broodlords head-on because of Infestor support). It's true that Marauders are a great counter to Ultras, but they're not efficient supply against ling/broodling if you switch to Broodlords; same goes for Vikings if you switch to Ultras after the Broodlords went down. This is the best post I have seen yet regarding this endless ghosts QQ'ing. Terrans absolutely need ghosts late game or its over, and nearly instantly. And yes, becuase that tech switch only reuires a single building instead of multiple factories or barracks etc then the snipe needs to counter multiple units. I know there is a lot of complaining about how you cant get close enough to the ghosts to kill them but that goes for many, many units in this game. It makes it come down to a micro battle, just like terrans have to do an insane amount of micro in order to beat a colossus or HT inside a deathball. The ghost snipe is fine, there is just a learning curve in dealing with them, I wish it wasn't so easy to just claim OP and forget about ever evolving strategies.... I think terran is the most fragile race in the game right now due to instant warp-ins and mass larvae. If they get another nerf at this point in the balancing game then they will be unplayable. Ya, I always wondered what Terran players told themselves so that they can sleep at night. Thanks for summing it up Haha, epic response. Sorry to interrupt your circlejerk, but could you please point out where the oh-so imbalanced ghost dominance shows up? In the foreign scene where terran hasn't won a tournament in god knows how long? In Korea where terran players abuse the shit out of early game timings, and we see ghosts in maybe 1 game out of 5?
Ummm, perhaps your foreigner scene reference is a hidden jab at the NASL, but Puma did just win a major tournament, and it was only last week!
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Was there this much balance whining back in the days of vanillia Starcraft and Broodwar? I mean back then, esports scene was just starting for Starcraft. The internet was just getting out of grade school.(3v3 BGH Cable host!) I feel the WOW balance whine effect may be the cause of this?(Ghostcrawler plays an Icemage)
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On December 09 2011 02:47 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 02:42 Bagi wrote:
Sorry to interrupt your circlejerk, but could you please point out where the oh-so imbalanced ghost dominance shows up?
In the foreign scene where terran hasn't won a tournament in god knows how long?
In Korea where terran players abuse the shit out of early game timings, and we see ghosts in maybe 1 game out of 5? Ummm, perhaps your foreigner scene reference is a hidden jab at the NASL, but Puma did just win a major tournament, and it was only last week!
Puma is Korean. Just look here:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments
and find non-Korean terrans that managed to get a win in one of the most prestigious tournaments...
well... last big Terran achievement is Thorzain winning TSL3 in March 2011.
Terran apparently sucks.
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On December 09 2011 02:23 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 00:00 CaptainCrush wrote:On December 08 2011 19:38 TheDwf wrote:On December 08 2011 19:08 Baobab wrote:
I play Zerg so I might be slightly biased, but I do feel that Ghosts are slightly overpowered.
They counter BLs, Ultras, Infestors, and Mutas, nuke is awesome harass late-game when the Z has a ton of bases, and cloak makes it tough to kill them (they can snipe overseers/EMP infestors sooo damn quickly). With good micro, I'd say the odds in the late-game are heavily stacked in the Ghost-wielding T's favor.
I'd like to see them unable to snipe ultralisks, that way they dont counter ALL Z T3 and Z doesn't get the feeling of, "Wow, nothing I have can beat Ghosts." Banelings aren't even that good - iirc Ghosts aren't considered light units, and Terran will usually still have a decent number of tanks on the field. T still has Marauders as a great counter to Ultras.
Just my 2 cents. Given the strength of Zerg instant massive tech switches by lategame, Terrans need some kind of multipurpose unit who's able to deal with your two tier3 paths (Marines don't do that well against Ultralisks, and though they would be OK against Broodlord alone, they usually can't fight Broodlords head-on because of Infestor support). It's true that Marauders are a great counter to Ultras, but they're not efficient supply against ling/broodling if you switch to Broodlords; same goes for Vikings if you switch to Ultras after the Broodlords went down. This is the best post I have seen yet regarding this endless ghosts QQ'ing. Terrans absolutely need ghosts late game or its over, and nearly instantly. And yes, becuase that tech switch only reuires a single building instead of multiple factories or barracks etc then the snipe needs to counter multiple units. I know there is a lot of complaining about how you cant get close enough to the ghosts to kill them but that goes for many, many units in this game. It makes it come down to a micro battle, just like terrans have to do an insane amount of micro in order to beat a colossus or HT inside a deathball. The ghost snipe is fine, there is just a learning curve in dealing with them, I wish it wasn't so easy to just claim OP and forget about ever evolving strategies.... I think terran is the most fragile race in the game right now due to instant warp-ins and mass larvae. If they get another nerf at this point in the balancing game then they will be unplayable. Ya, I always wondered what Terran players told themselves so that they can sleep at night. Thanks for summing it up
Well terran has the least win% and zerg has the highest so I guess the real question is, what does zerg tell themselves to make themselves sleep at night? :D Mutas are grossly OP in PvZ and infestor blord has no counter in TvZ xD I guess they don't sleep at all, no excuse gets u out of this one ;D Just watch leenock vs naniwa finals lol. how does leenock sleep after that? :O
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On December 09 2011 02:54 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 02:47 farvacola wrote:On December 09 2011 02:42 Bagi wrote:
Sorry to interrupt your circlejerk, but could you please point out where the oh-so imbalanced ghost dominance shows up?
In the foreign scene where terran hasn't won a tournament in god knows how long?
In Korea where terran players abuse the shit out of early game timings, and we see ghosts in maybe 1 game out of 5? Ummm, perhaps your foreigner scene reference is a hidden jab at the NASL, but Puma did just win a major tournament, and it was only last week! Puma is Korean. Just look here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournamentsand find non-Korean terrans that managed to get a win in one of the most prestigious tournaments... well... last big Terran achievement is Thorzain winning TSL3 in March 2011. Terran apparently sucks.
lol who gives a shit if he's korean, it's a "foreign-scene" event. don't make this about player ethnicity.
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[/QUOTE]
Well terran has the least win% and zerg has the highest so I guess the real question is, what does zerg tell themselves to make themselves sleep at night? :D Mutas are grossly OP in PvZ and infestor blord has no counter in TvZ xD I guess they don't sleep at all, no excuse gets u out of this one ;D Just watch leenock vs naniwa finals lol. how does leenock sleep after that? :O[/QUOTE]
I thought this type of post was banned in TL. Normally you see posts like this in the Blizzard forums. To say that something has no counters is just grossly wrong.
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On December 09 2011 02:20 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 00:00 CaptainCrush wrote:On December 08 2011 19:38 TheDwf wrote:On December 08 2011 19:08 Baobab wrote:
I play Zerg so I might be slightly biased, but I do feel that Ghosts are slightly overpowered.
They counter BLs, Ultras, Infestors, and Mutas, nuke is awesome harass late-game when the Z has a ton of bases, and cloak makes it tough to kill them (they can snipe overseers/EMP infestors sooo damn quickly). With good micro, I'd say the odds in the late-game are heavily stacked in the Ghost-wielding T's favor.
I'd like to see them unable to snipe ultralisks, that way they dont counter ALL Z T3 and Z doesn't get the feeling of, "Wow, nothing I have can beat Ghosts." Banelings aren't even that good - iirc Ghosts aren't considered light units, and Terran will usually still have a decent number of tanks on the field. T still has Marauders as a great counter to Ultras.
Just my 2 cents. Given the strength of Zerg instant massive tech switches by lategame, Terrans need some kind of multipurpose unit who's able to deal with your two tier3 paths (Marines don't do that well against Ultralisks, and though they would be OK against Broodlord alone, they usually can't fight Broodlords head-on because of Infestor support). It's true that Marauders are a great counter to Ultras, but they're not efficient supply against ling/broodling if you switch to Broodlords; same goes for Vikings if you switch to Ultras after the Broodlords went down. This is the best post I have seen yet regarding this endless ghosts QQ'ing. Terrans absolutely need ghosts late game or its over, and nearly instantly. And yes, becuase that tech switch only reuires a single building instead of multiple factories or barracks etc then the snipe needs to counter multiple units. I know there is a lot of complaining about how you cant get close enough to the ghosts to kill them but that goes for many, many units in this game. It makes it come down to a micro battle, just like terrans have to do an insane amount of micro in order to beat a colossus or HT inside a deathball. The ghost snipe is fine, there is just a learning curve in dealing with them, I wish it wasn't so easy to just claim OP and forget about ever evolving strategies.... I think terran is the most fragile race in the game right now due to instant warp-ins and mass larvae. If they get another nerf at this point in the balancing game then they will be unplayable. Somewhere, Jakji and MVP are smirking.
No way. Ghosts arent even that usefull on most gsl maps. For ghosts/mech to be strong you need easily splitable maps. DAybreak is probably the clostest GSL map that is easily splitable, however how often are we seeing ghosts being used in tvz in daybreak? Like every 1/30th game?
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On December 09 2011 02:57 worldsnap wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 02:54 scypio wrote:On December 09 2011 02:47 farvacola wrote:On December 09 2011 02:42 Bagi wrote:
Sorry to interrupt your circlejerk, but could you please point out where the oh-so imbalanced ghost dominance shows up?
In the foreign scene where terran hasn't won a tournament in god knows how long?
In Korea where terran players abuse the shit out of early game timings, and we see ghosts in maybe 1 game out of 5? Ummm, perhaps your foreigner scene reference is a hidden jab at the NASL, but Puma did just win a major tournament, and it was only last week! Puma is Korean. Just look here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournamentsand find non-Korean terrans that managed to get a win in one of the most prestigious tournaments... well... last big Terran achievement is Thorzain winning TSL3 in March 2011. Terran apparently sucks. lol who gives a shit if he's korean, it's a "foreign-scene" event. don't make this about player ethnicity.
Whoa whoa whoa. Colossal misuse of the word ethnicity. At NO point did anyone refer to ethnicity.
They simply stated that no foreign Terran has won anything. Puma is a Korean, both by nationality and the fact that he's spent the better part of the past few years training in a Korean house with Koreans. What does their ethnicity have to do with this? NOTHING. What does their training environment in Korea have to do with this? EVERYTHING.
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EPT
