EPTIMBALANCED! - Introduction - Page 23
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If you have criticism, you need to address the content, not the hosts. Idra and Artosis are 2 (1.5) Zerg players, but you can't point that out and then blanket them as biased. Respond to the content. You can't tell them to "get 2 Terran and Protoss players". That's fucking obtuse advice. "Yo just get 4 more high level players to record with you." Yes, I think everyone sees the value in getting it, but it's not practical. Respond to the content and use evidence / logic to back up your claims. | ||
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grandkai
Canada71 Posts
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DarkRise
1644 Posts
Tho the show could be improve if there is a guest that actually plays the race being discuss (Artosis plays protoss but not at a high level yet since he just started and not a lot of practice since he had to cast multiple games) | ||
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Whiladan
United States463 Posts
On February 03 2011 15:59 branflakes14 wrote: If anyone deserves a ban it's Artosis, and Idra needs a warning for going along with it. GL with that campaign. | ||
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Ajunta
Germany522 Posts
Either way, I'm gonna watch every single episode of this. Thanks Artosis and Idra, you are beyond awesome! | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15712 Posts
As much as I know this will create a lot of useless threads on TL from kids who don't know what they are talking about, I gotta hand it to Artosis/Idra for finding a way to derive fame and channel views from the most fanatic of SC2 players...The people who discuss imbalance on forums O_O | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On February 03 2011 16:03 branflakes14 wrote: Infestors to hold the Stalkers in place, flank from the rear with Corruptors. The gas has to come from somewhere. Part of the reason they brought up maps is because it would be fundamentally different if Z could easily get the 5th and 6th gas, and with some regularity get 7 and 8. Neither of those is the case. The same was true in BW. If you didn't secure a 4th gas, you couldn't really make a successful switch into ultras. You also can't flank on most current SC2 maps. Making extra hatches could probably help the larva issue. | ||
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Ryalnos
United States1946 Posts
Sure, for an 'unbiased' analysis it's best to have participants from all races. However, that doesn't mean that two pro(ish in the case of Artosis) players can't speak their mind and broadcast it for those who are interested in hearing what and how they think about this oft-discussed topic. A show doesn't have to be unbiased to make it interesting. Perhaps they will have guests via Skype or the Liquid` players will have appearances in the future so they can put someone on the spot to argue against the perceived imbalance. | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
On February 03 2011 16:01 LoLAdriankat wrote: Artosis and IdrA made a point that Terran deals with big collosi numbers fine because of viking range. Corruptors are good vs collosi, but the issue is getting them to the (upgraded) collosi when backed up by stalkers. Corruptors only have 6 range while vikings have 9 range. Ya I understand that and I agree. But often times, unless I have a huge viking ball I cant kill the colossus fast enough before my army dies. Then im left with some vikings. And rarely do I encounter a protoss who is gonna let me whipe out his entire colosuss ball. Either he blinks his stalkers right under my vikings after hes already killed half my army, or just a little micro and I lose some vikings unless I have uber control. I think if blizzard wasnt so dumb and designed terran to be using bio more ie: tank nerf, emp on ghost, hellions late game "meatshield" capabilites, and how reliant and important marauders are, than TvP would be awesome. Im not trying to complain, but its equally hard for terran. | ||
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JakeBurton
74 Posts
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vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
Edit: But I'm bloody certain I won't be keeping track of this thread. Oh christ, don't even want to imagine the shitstorm of bull. | ||
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Ksi
357 Posts
On February 03 2011 15:55 DyEnasTy wrote: Ya, I really dont see how Colosi are harder for zerg than terran. vikings have range, but corruptors have attack bonus vs massive. Either way its hard to snipe the colosi before he destroys your ground army and thats as terran or zerg. I dunno, I didnt like the show. I feel idra and artosis are the most biased in the business. But I still have mad respect for who they are and what they do. Just dont like listening to balance talk to that extreme. Edit: But I do agree about what they were talking about in general. I think the colosi are too much of a centerpiece and needs readjusting. Who knows, this might actually help in the PvP mu. As a terran though, there is no unit in the game I fear more than colossus. Especially after the siege tank nerf which im aware only affects light units. It just makes it that much harder to keep zealots out of my army. Im sorry I started ranting there. Even when you factor in corruption, vikings do more DPS to colossus than corruptors do. They have more range and cost only 75 gas compared to 100 gas. Sure corruptors have more hp and armor, but when it comes to countering colossus, it's about killing them off before they annihilate your ground army, so it's DPS that matters the most. Yes, zerg have their production mechanics, but reactored starports pretty much offset that advantage. Also, once the colossus are dead, the vikings can land and be helpful in a close fight. With corruptors, at best you will get a 20% damage bonus vs ONE unit for each corruptor you have leftover. Ultimately though, Blizz was just very short-sighted when they implemented the macro gimmicks, and they did a poor job of balancing around them. Their solution to the strength of warpgate was to...make all gateway units horrible, and the colossus was the band-aid solution given to the protoss race's weak gateway army. Their solution to the strength of inject larva in late-game was to make a zerg 200/200 army absolutely worthless in cost efficiency. | ||
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Lucid90
Canada340 Posts
But sometimes I do feel like bunkers are a bit too strong. They are free, and don't set the T behind if he makes them, with with exception of the deposit of 100 minerals he had to invest and the building time with the scv. Punishing bunker spam seems kinda appropriate to me, like making bunkers only be able to salvage if there's nothing attacking it or a longer salvage time. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On February 03 2011 16:02 Euronyme wrote: He's trying out protoss on ladder.. doesnt mean he's a protoss player. He's obviously heaviliy biased towards zerg, making balance discussion kind of silly imho. Still love artosis as a caster, but both him and Idra are known for having exaggerated views on Zergs UPness. Not long ago Idra said he wouldnt be able to win against good protosses because of the 10 second decreased phoenix build time.. Honestly I think the solution lies more in being creative in the game than doing balance videos.. Everyone already knows the collosus is a good unit, and that protoss relies on their few power units. Artosis was playing Protoss in the GSL code A qualifiers, which can only imply that if he won he would have been playing Protoss in Code A as well. It goes a bit further than just trying it out on the ladder. While they're known for being more vocal about Zerg's weakness than other high profile community members, none of that came into play in this video. Every point they tried to make was discussed and explained in full, and none of it was exaggerated. Even after people watch this video and see how UNBIAS they're actually being, they can't seem to get over who is actually talking and it just blocks them mentally from accepting anything they hear as being impartial which, after 1 day, is already getting tiresome. | ||
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MagnusHyperion
United States288 Posts
Also note, they didn't say that the colossus was actually imbalanced. Rather they pointed to the current map pool and strategies being a prime concern. I would, as a low level protoss (2700 masters), say that, while I am not good enough to directly address the balance issues they talk about, the colossus' ability to dictate stereotypical overreaction (read as: predictable) responses from the opponent is a cause for concern. Specifically, I would point to Artosis' comments about the current map pool having inadequacies in size and, thusly, positioning. I am excited to see what will happen in the upcoming GSTL with the new maps! I hope to see some of the true RTS potential of SC2 at a higher frequency given that players can now focus on strategy, economy management, and positioning! | ||
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iCCup.riffe
Sweden23 Posts
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LeGeNDz
60 Posts
and honestly if the collosus had its range upgrade taken out is also something that could be considered. but if the range upgrade is taken out (nerf) the collosus would need a slight buff in say price where it could be 300 minerals 100 gas. | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
I just blew your mind, didn't I? Some people should really try to read between the lines, for a change. | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
On February 03 2011 16:21 LeGeNDz wrote: Corruptors should get range 9 like vikings. ooo i can do this too: Stalkers should get +2 damage per attack upgrade, do 15 base damage and have a fire rate of 0.83. | ||
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silencesc
United States464 Posts
I wonder how long they've been wanting to do this, because from artosis' commentary he seemed bursting at the seams to talk about balance during the GSL. I was really surprised how non-zerg centric the podcast was, and I'm looking forward to more. Good job guys! :D | ||
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MegaBUD
Canada179 Posts
Commentator shouldnt talk about balance... The only thing i heard was.... nerf terran, toss and buff zerg. Also... this game wont be balance around pro level... why? cause its their job to deal with those imbalance... they play 12 hours a day. And for god sake do not ask someone that BM every terran player what should be balance. Leave balance to the people who have all the data about this game... it might take another year but... this game gonna be balance. | ||
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