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Canada13389 Posts
On January 31 2011 08:05 Ighox wrote:
The price is fine in my opinion, I get so much content for the money compared to ANY other entertainment.
I think everyone just needs to get used to and accept the fact that paying for entertainment is ok, yes even on the internet.
Unless the cost is the season 1 original cost of 50$. I would like to get season 1 but Im not sure how much it would cost me now since its the only season I haven't seen yet.
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Is it a good idea: Yes
Is it arguable: no
Do they provide a free stream: Yes
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if you really wanna watch it (like me) theres a free version available... you made it seem like there's only a paid version...
i completely disagree with the OP
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On January 31 2011 08:06 GP wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2011 06:34 heyoka wrote:On January 31 2011 06:30 mprs wrote:
I think people can still watch SQ live for free, which isn't too bad... Not VODs. I think its an awful policy that shows very little understanding of how to grow a sport. Historically things like baseball became much bigger when they began to give out content for free (like when baseball was first put on the radio). If I was new to the scene and ran across the GSL website, I would be out of there immediately as soon as I saw you need to pay. It would turn me to something else and make me forget about SC2 instantly. I think a lot people are missing the point that GOM is a Korean company. Baseball got popular because it was an American sport broadcasting to Americans while being supported by local American commercials. It wasn't costing MLB money to broadcast games. GOM can't just broadcast for free, it's really expensive, they need sponsors to support the broadcasting. The GSL is supported by Sony Erickson, but I doubt there was some guy in the corporate office in Japan who decided to sponsor a Korean game tournament, I'm sure it was a local division that wanted to reach out to Koreans. And on top of that, it's being supported by Korean music. It's costing GOM money to even have a low quality live broadcast, no one's supporting the international stream. Don't Koreans get the content for free? That's because all of the advertising that supports that content is targeted at Koreans. If GOM wants to make the GSL popular like the radio made The MLB popular, they're going to have to find international sponsors. I think that is a daunting task, especially for a Korean company. I'm fine with paying ten dollars a month for now. If someone from GOM figures out how to get multinational sponsors to support foreign content, then that's even better. But I think you guys are asking to much from a moderately sized Korean company.
You forget that the GSL is also sponsored by Blizzard, an American company who made the game in America. If Blizzard would just step up like the parent it's supposed to be and cover the broadcasting fees for GOM, the foreign scene wouldn't be in this mess of indefinitely paying every single month, over and over and over. They could at least help attain international sponsors. 
Shame on Blizzard, really.
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On January 31 2011 07:56 Bijan wrote:
I don't understand why they don't restream at a primetime live for foreign regions, and put regional ads on that stream. I don't mind getting ads, I do mind having to stay up until 4 am and beyond to watch a few sc2 games. So you're suggesting... 4 restreams of Gom? One for each prime time slot in major regions? One for GMT+3, one for GMT, one for EST and one for PST?
Gom has an international audience.
As long as there's no distribution model in place for each country/region, we probably won't get rebroadcasts tailored to the various local preferences.
edit: although hey, I personally wouldn't mind a restream of the games 12h later.
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The whole VODs thing is the worst part to me. It absolutely quashes any community interaction through commentary, highlights, and the spread of GSL to more casual SC2 players.
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On January 31 2011 08:16 lac29 wrote:
The whole VODs thing is the worst part to me. It absolutely quashes any community interaction through commentary, highlights, and the spread of GSL to more casual SC2 players.
What, exactly, is fundamentally wrong with a VOD model that offers Set 1 of each match for free (content preview), then asking only $10 for an all-access premium pass to all VOD content (with HQ live stream thrown in as well)?
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While I dunno shit about korean business patterns, I think it is a very bad way to conduct a business. I'd do it very very differently.
Also, this is the internet. Your IP rights will never be... uh... "respected" (?)...
For example, I couldnt watch gsl4 finals live. Even if I had payed to watch it live, i'm positive a lot of ppl had issues connecting to the stream (I cant begin to imagine how pissed off I'd be had I payed for a shit that would stop working when I most wanted it)
then, I searched for like 15 minutes after I woke up and watched the VODs for free on an alternative very known stream.
Nothing to do with reaping gomtv off. That's just how the internet works really.
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I have to say, I'd preffer a couple of sample best of 3's to the first of each being available, and whilst I haven't been able to afford the paid pass to date, I appreciate what is available, and I don't think the price is unreasonable given what you get for it.
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Stop saying how good of a deal it is to people who already want to watch it. The part that matter is if new or casual people will want to pay for it. The current live stream and vod setup is very poor at attracting new viewers.
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I think what they are doing right now is pretty damn close to perfect and they shouldn't have to change anything. As far as I know GSL isn't on any of the major Korean television gaming channels (OGN, MBC, not sure if there others I don't really know) so they have to make some money to pay the bills somehow, and I doubt the sponsorships take care of all of it, but who knows.
The only thing I think Gom should maybe consider doing is re-stream the games on Gom player 12hrs after the original playing of the day's games. This way people who don't pay for VoDs can watch it all of it on SQ, and it may get them hooked to buy premium service, but I guess many of the people who pay for premium may not because they can watch it all then.
However, for myself even if they restreamed it 12hrs after not sure I'd always be able to watch it or want to, so I'd still get premium, gotta support the scene! I just hope other people view it that way, and maybe newcomers would support the scene after seeing it for the first time, who knows.
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You can watch the stream free live. You can watch the first game of the VODs free. People seem to forget that companies are in business to make money. All of them except non-profits are built to make money. GOM is no exception. They provide a service (an expensive one at that) and have numerous employees and their own studio. They also have a foreigner house for overseas GSL participants where players live rent free. They also have somewhere close to a 100k USD prize pool EACH MONTH. All of these things cost money and lots of it.
I like the way they operate and it's how I would try to operate things if I was in charge. They provide a free stream and partially free VODs. The premium service give you access to all VODs and interviews. The only way I can see them ever making everything free is if they get TONS of sponsorship money. And maybe that's the goal eventually, but for now, I seriously doubt Sony Ericsson can or will cover all the expenses of GOM mentioned above.
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On January 31 2011 08:14 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2011 08:06 GP wrote:On January 31 2011 06:34 heyoka wrote:On January 31 2011 06:30 mprs wrote:
I think people can still watch SQ live for free, which isn't too bad... Not VODs. I think its an awful policy that shows very little understanding of how to grow a sport. Historically things like baseball became much bigger when they began to give out content for free (like when baseball was first put on the radio). If I was new to the scene and ran across the GSL website, I would be out of there immediately as soon as I saw you need to pay. It would turn me to something else and make me forget about SC2 instantly. I think a lot people are missing the point that GOM is a Korean company. Baseball got popular because it was an American sport broadcasting to Americans while being supported by local American commercials. It wasn't costing MLB money to broadcast games. GOM can't just broadcast for free, it's really expensive, they need sponsors to support the broadcasting. The GSL is supported by Sony Erickson, but I doubt there was some guy in the corporate office in Japan who decided to sponsor a Korean game tournament, I'm sure it was a local division that wanted to reach out to Koreans. And on top of that, it's being supported by Korean music. It's costing GOM money to even have a low quality live broadcast, no one's supporting the international stream. Don't Koreans get the content for free? That's because all of the advertising that supports that content is targeted at Koreans. If GOM wants to make the GSL popular like the radio made The MLB popular, they're going to have to find international sponsors. I think that is a daunting task, especially for a Korean company. I'm fine with paying ten dollars a month for now. If someone from GOM figures out how to get multinational sponsors to support foreign content, then that's even better. But I think you guys are asking to much from a moderately sized Korean company. You forget that the GSL is also sponsored by Blizzard, an American company who made the game in America. If Blizzard would just step up like the parent it's supposed to be and cover the broadcasting fees for GOM, the foreign scene wouldn't be in this mess of indefinitely paying every single month, over and over and over. They could at least help attain international sponsors. Shame on Blizzard, really.
I'm pretty sure Blizz doesn't sponsor The GSL. GOM is required to have Blizzard's name featured prominently through their contract.
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I have no doubt that the GSL will find a way to get it in for free once the business plan makes sense. You have to understand that they are above all a business. We as fans have a vested interest in their success. If making the stream and VoDs free allows them to have a greater revenue from advertisements, then they will do that.
They need to grow in numbers first while still charging for VoDs. Why? So that they can sustain themselves while still attempting to find a feasible sponsor.
I imagine re-streams in a foreigner-friendly timezone with ads will be somewhat convenient, but spoilers are always rampant. Why watch a restream when you can watch a vod?
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On January 31 2011 08:26 Spacemanspiff wrote:
Stop saying how good of a deal it is to people who already want to watch it. The part that matter is if new or casual people will want to pay for it. The current live stream and vod setup is very poor at attracting new viewers.
Again I think people are severely underestimating the amount of free content already provided. Right now on an account without premium service you can watch 65 full VOD's from the last season. Assuming the average VOD is 12 minutes long (random number, most are longer) that's already 13 full hours of free content. Are you seriously saying that's a poor way to attract new viewers?
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On January 31 2011 08:26 Spacemanspiff wrote:
Stop saying how good of a deal it is to people who already want to watch it. The part that matter is if new or casual people will want to pay for it. The current live stream and vod setup is very poor at attracting new viewers.
Said like someone who didn't take even a second to substantiate their claim. More like "it's very poor because I can't get everything for free" amirite? Free SQ live stream and free sample VOD content is a poor model? Gimme a break.
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On January 31 2011 08:32 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2011 08:26 Spacemanspiff wrote:
Stop saying how good of a deal it is to people who already want to watch it. The part that matter is if new or casual people will want to pay for it. The current live stream and vod setup is very poor at attracting new viewers. Again I think people are severely underestimating the amount of free content already provided. Right now on an account without premium service you can watch 65 full VOD's from the last season. Assuming the average VOD is 12 minutes long (random number, most are longer) that's already 13 full hours of free content. Are you seriously saying that's a poor way to attract new viewers?
Yes, it is. Watching Set1s don't mean shit, its like if NBATV gave you free first quarter of every basketball game, very unsatisfying. Many many people have a very low reservation price for products like VODs and streams, and when they see a fee it just turns them away to either not watching at all or finding other sites who rip them off of gom.
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Errrr dude, if we didn't have to pay, there wouldn't even BE a frikkin GSL for us foreigners!
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I am in Australia and have been watching GSL since season 1. I try to catch it live when possible as the time difference is minimal here. I have paid for Seasons 2-4. I have only ever had to restream 1 set live, this was the IdrA vs Jinro bo5 in the January season.
1. Saying we should get the VOD's for free to 'introduce' new customers to the scene is stupid, a lot of content is already free as everyone seems to keep pointing out. The reason people are willing to pay for this content is because of the high calibur of these players is it not? No one would be paying if this was a Bronze level tournament. So if you want to see the best of the best fork out the money it's not hard, on top that sites such as www.sc2rep.com have multiple replays of top level korean players from ladder so it's not your ONLY option to see these gamers.
2. The stream has drastically increased in terms of stability, I mentioned I only ever restreamed IdrA vs Jinro, this is true but since Season 4 I have had NO lag spikes whatsoever no lag at all, I think this speaks leaps and bounds to the increase in quality.
3. I live in a..farily remote area of Nrth East QLD and my net is therefore expensive, $89.95/month for 100GB with speed of about 6mbps. yet I have no trouble streaming this, so I don't see how it was previously mentioned that the stream is unwatchable in Australia.
4. If you don't have the luxury of being able to watch the GSL for free due to time constraints, guess what, pay for it? Why should GOM restream the games when they have a perfectly good method in place? As previously mentioned the stream has increased drastically and it was mentioned that this is due to people buying the subscriptions. So why hinder progress just so you can save a few bucks?
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On January 31 2011 08:20 UruzuNine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2011 08:16 lac29 wrote:
The whole VODs thing is the worst part to me. It absolutely quashes any community interaction through commentary, highlights, and the spread of GSL to more casual SC2 players. What, exactly, is fundamentally wrong with a VOD model that offers Set 1 of each match for free (content preview), then asking only $10 for an all-access premium pass to all VOD content (with HQ live stream thrown in as well)?
It still quashes any real community interaction or community projects that can occur. Offering only the first set is really not much difference between offering no VOD at all from a community interaction point of view. It was fine in SC1 where there are videos out there that the community could manipulate and use to create "new content", much which ends up on youtube and ends up attracting a LOT more people who aren't even SC fans necessarily. GSL is still very much a hardcore SC2 nerd's world with the current revenue plan.
Edit: A lot of content is free because it's illegally pirated off of HD stream. That's why there isn't a huge outcry. It's because a lot of people have found ways around it and are happy utilizing these ways.
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EPT
