even so, it would be really nice to see people at least ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that blizzard is working on fixing the problems. like many other people have said, it's at least a step in the right direction and it's way too soon to pass complete judgement on the map. terrans won't have 60 siege tanks and 5 PFs at 10min into the game. just play it out, see what happens.

The problem is just how the strategy will play out. It's still a fight to the death to prevent a PF popping up at that 3rd. It's very difficult to effectively kill a terran army near a pF so you have to drag that army out and cut it up or hit a more vulnerable base... or just simply power overwhelm it. If that 3rd still goes up, the Terran will be able to still use his excellent position to storie otu kill the 4th or more importantly move up and deny toss/zerg 3rd forth by taking the opposite spot and cutting off forces.

Tldr there is a fundemental issue, though I admit I am still thinking this through because you can stretch it somewhat to cover something like xel naga.

Drake

Germany6146 Posts

January 22 2011 08:41 GMT

#343

before everyone starting a flame about this change i would really like to see this map played few times . when everyone played it 20-30 times ok say its bad or good but saying it before even tryed ... well i dont think its a good way to discuss

so afk playing JB

SDream

Brazil896 Posts

January 22 2011 08:48 GMT

#344

New JB isn't online on LA servers yet, so I doubt it will till monday, is it online on NA (US) server?

Edit: New Shakuras (1.2), Blistering(1.1), Steppes(1.1), Xel'Naga Caverns(1.1) and Lost Temple(1.1) are online. Delta Quadrante, Scrap Station, Metapolis and Jungle Valley are still 1.0.

TzaTzers

United States589 Posts

January 22 2011 09:08 GMT

#345

havent really read ALL the posts on here but cant siege tanks still harass the mineral line (if T is bottom and Z/P on top) from the left ridge where the ramp is at?

i know units can get to the siege tanks but it still makes it a nice fortified choke with siege tanks on both high ground and the main army on the choke

Kelwyn

Germany143 Posts

January 22 2011 15:08 GMT

#346

Just played a ladder match last night on the european ladder with the updated version and wanted to practice against friend in a custom game as well, but for custom matches theres still the old version? Or is just something wrong on my part?

winnningwpie

United States31 Posts

January 22 2011 18:39 GMT

#347

A Planetary fortress at that location will be nearly impenetrable especially if terran sets up some siege tanks on the edge of their base for support.

terranghost

United States980 Posts

January 22 2011 18:41 GMT

#348

I think people should just play it out first.

Sure if the terran sets up his normal third he has a 4th that is basically free. But how was this really different from how the map played before then once the third was set you could take the watch towers and push for a fortress at the other central base.

Now if zerg take the gold as their third they can then take the side base as their 4th.

Yes terran have the ability to take a fifth easier which is still bad for zerg however I would think that having your natural, the gold, your main, and the side base would be preferable to JB with no gold base where your 4 expos look like this: main, natural, side base, and side base.

One makes you more spread out than the other.

Probably still going to be t favored but like others have said this is at least a step in the right direction. I mean would you have rather them say, "hmmm zerg need another base lets put right at the base of the watchtower."

Oreo7

United States1647 Posts

January 22 2011 18:45 GMT

#349

Blizz is taking it out of the map pool now

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1921986592

MindRush

Romania916 Posts

January 22 2011 18:45 GMT

#350

On January 21 2011 13:11 travis wrote:
i think this is going to make terran RIDICULOUSLY strong on this map, wtf

I can't wait to see what IdrA has to say about this ...... will be so funny

Vimsey

United Kingdom2235 Posts

January 22 2011 18:49 GMT

#351

That change is like putting lipstick on a pig...glad to see its being removed from the ladder and the foliage fixes

PrinceXizor

United States17713 Posts

January 22 2011 18:55 GMT

#352

I'd like to see the high ground in the center have no expos and all the expos are aroun dthe outside. that would make the strategically most important area also the least rewarding economically. and i think would make the game more interesting.

dekuschrub

United States2069 Posts

January 22 2011 18:59 GMT

#353

people are so retarded. this change will only effect TvZ balance if anything. people pointing out where you can put tanks as a way to prove imbalance has been a classic mistake in discussing map balance. so the fuck what if you can load up tanks around hte gold/middle expo. the zerg will now actually have a possible expo to put pressure on the terran 3rd (although I admit that this map could be ballsack for ZvT still).

this really won't change PvT at all just because there is another base. if anything this will remain a protoss map.

Jayjay54

Germany2296 Posts

January 22 2011 19:25 GMT

#354

On January 21 2011 13:40 Reptilia wrote:
i agree, as a terran player i feel this is a free 4th vs zerg

e:nvm
if they want to keep that map for some reason, other expos had to added. i'm not sure about the place. seems to easy for terran to hol with their reg 3rd. i'm not complaining as much as most of my zerg buddies here tho. feel like the matchup might improve a little because of more zerg opportunities / expos.

BlueBird.

United States3890 Posts

January 22 2011 19:29 GMT

#355

Does anyone know why they are not using the PTR to test potential ladder maps? It seems like that might be a useful thing to do when they are not testing balance changes. I understand not testing balance changes on untested maps however.

phrenzy

United Kingdom478 Posts

January 23 2011 08:50 GMT

#356

Has anyone played on Agria Valley? Its like a better version of JB. Im sure someone will point out an imbalance but i love this map.

+ Show Spoiler +

There is some distance between the main an natural but the towers provide decent coverage and its not to hard to defend.

I would love to hear other people's thoughts on this map. (Especially if you have played on it)

Subversion

South Africa3627 Posts

January 23 2011 09:55 GMT

#357

I've played Agria. It's not bad, but it suffers same as JB with a lack of bases to take.

I thought JB was being removed? Is it updated or removed?

Natt

France253 Posts

January 23 2011 12:32 GMT

#358

On January 23 2011 17:50 phrenzy wrote:
Has anyone played on Agria Valley? Its like a better version of JB. Im sure someone will point out an imbalance but i love this map.

+ Show Spoiler +

As zerg i find it terrible. The ramp is too far from the nat, so u HAVE to go roach against anything, Protoss can FF it so easily it's not even funny. There's so few expos it favors allin, and the rush distance is retarded. Good luck taking a 3rd as Z. I really hate JB, but it's not as worse as Agria.

FarbrorAbavna

Sweden4856 Posts

January 23 2011 12:36 GMT

#359

On January 23 2011 03:45 Gentleman7 wrote:
Blizz is taking it out of the map pool now

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1921986592

and hopefully wont put it back in unless it's like doubled in size and has 4 more(on the map, not per side), real, expos on it :D

The KY

United Kingdom6252 Posts

January 25 2011 19:23 GMT

#360

AAAAAH FUCK I can't believe I didn't see that gold base. I just lost a fucking long game against a protoss.

'I'm so ahead,' I thought to myself. 'There's no way he can feasibly catch up to me again.'

10 minutes later I see a mined out gold expansion and I'm like 'WHAT THE FGYDYGSDAYGDSSDGDHGDGDFDFDSH WHO PUT THAT FUCKING THING THERE??!!!'

And then I lost to about 30 HT's.