Jungle Basin Updated - Page 16

confusedcrib

United States1307 Posts

January 21 2011 19:44 GMT

#301

On January 21 2011 13:12 ThaZenith wrote:
Lol, terrans will take their regular 3rd, and get that gold as their 4th for free.

Very amusing.

I play random and thought exactly this lol

Champ24

177 Posts

January 21 2011 19:45 GMT

#302

On January 22 2011 04:20 Ribbon wrote:

Show nested quote +

You believe wrong.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1020862313?page=10#195

Steppes is popular with a sizable chunk of the player base. Team Liquid != The Starcraft Community.

Show nested quote +

Why would they do that? Terrans did it before because all the places Z wanted a third were practically in tank range. Now they have to get quite a bit out of position to block Z from taking the gold (leaving them open to counter attacks). There's no longer any real advantage to taking the middle natural as their 3rd. Terrans would rather take their gold and expand down the side of the map towards the Zerg's map.

This gold base is a much bigger change than people are giving it credit for. It makes taking the high ground significantly less useful for Terran, and puts the new third way from the middle. These means Terrans won't play this map at all like they used to, because that's much less good. They'll go down the side of the map instead (letting the Zerg take the other side).

You aren't thinking 4th dimensionally (gogo Christopher Lloyd).

While I agree that Terran would need to go out of position to prevent a Z or P from securing their 3rd, the issue is the placement of the gold expo easily allows the terran to secure their 4th. And you have the same issue as before...however now terrans can mule the gold under the security of their already stacked 3rd base.

The primary issue I have upon first glance is tank placement can easily defend both their 3rd and their 4th.

When it hits NA we will see how it pans out, but my initial take on it is that it doesn't really change much. If anything it gives a Terran the ability to mule a gold with confidence in long drawn out games.

Keitzer

United States2509 Posts

January 21 2011 19:46 GMT

#303

WOOT ITS ON NA!!!

idk if it's the updated Jungle Basin (b/c the preview doesn't look like it) but i'm guessing it is since Shakuras is back up

Heraklitus

United States553 Posts

January 21 2011 20:48 GMT

#304

Since they fixed Shakuras, I wonder if they fixed LT. Has anyone looked / tested it?

urashimakt

United States1591 Posts

January 21 2011 20:59 GMT

#305

On January 22 2011 04:46 Keitzer wrote:
WOOT ITS ON NA!!!

idk if it's the updated Jungle Basin (b/c the preview doesn't look like it) but i'm guessing it is since Shakuras is back up

I booted up, made sure my maps were ladder compliant, and tested the map. No new gold bases, same Jungle Basin we're used to. This may soon change, just felt like reporting it in.

Aelonius

Netherlands432 Posts

January 21 2011 21:04 GMT

#306

On January 21 2011 21:15 Siwa wrote:
what the fuck people so critical about all the changes blizzard makes.

Show me game studios that goe "ahh community doesnt quite like the map.. lets try to fix it".

Spoiled kids, you

Sometimes be appreciative of what you get with 60 or so bucks.

However!
We pay 60 bucks for a game that is constantly changing and evolving. In other words, unlike a monopoly board, you WILL see changes. Seeing we bought the game, it entitles us to express our opinion regarding the product that has been bought by us as customers.

It would be different if they would deliver the game without additional changes afterwards. Then we have no say in how to do things.

Deekin[

Serbia1713 Posts

January 21 2011 21:09 GMT

#307

On January 22 2011 05:48 Heraklitus wrote:
Since they fixed Shakuras, I wonder if they fixed LT. Has anyone looked / tested it?

If you are thinking about the flower "bug" for zergs, yes its been fixed, there was another thread about that.

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

January 21 2011 21:16 GMT

#308

+ Show Spoiler +

I don't really like the changes. Really zerg is still hard pressed to keep a third. Why? Take a look in the spoiler. The red area is all the places zerg has to protect, and then as you can see the black area is where tanks can hit them.

What's going to end up happening is tanks go there, and then they send a small like 8 rine force to just take out the hatch. Meanwhile zergs can't kill them because tanks are there. Eventually they'll be forced just to go in and try to bust, and I'm unsure as to whether that will be a good thing for zerg.

Torpedo.Vegas

United States1890 Posts

January 21 2011 21:24 GMT

#309

I think the wait and see approach is best here. Only because if Zergs spend time controlling the region where the Gold is while keeping up a fair amount of harass/pressure, there are not doing so bad. Controlling a 3rd base now is easier then controlling a 3rd base as it was before, and the discrepancy in income could lead to a stronger army/ quicker replaced army. I see the tank issue, but its only an issue if they can get there which would be harder now that the income for Zerg would have spiked and they would have a veritable creep highway to the backdoor entrance to the enemies natural where as before it would have been considered extra work.

Healingproof

Sweden81 Posts

January 21 2011 21:42 GMT

#310

LOL even without trying it, zergs go crazy... in negativity? lol, this is a buff to zerg. You get a free 3rd out of siege tanks high ground range. And now you're pissed cause you can't get a free... fourth? Seriously stop it lol

Twitches

Canada365 Posts

January 21 2011 21:45 GMT

#311

Other than being pretty much a free third within siege range to take down the rocks for Terran.. Its kind of nice to have another OPTION as Zerg, but its not really leaning towards balance.

1Eris1

United States5797 Posts

January 21 2011 21:49 GMT

#312

On January 22 2011 06:42 Healingproof wrote:
LOL even without trying it, zergs go crazy... in negativity? lol, this is a buff to zerg. You get a free 3rd out of siege tanks high ground range. And now you're pissed cause you can't get a free... fourth? Seriously stop it lol

Please actually think about what your saying before you actually say it.

ERGO

United States168 Posts

January 21 2011 21:50 GMT

#313

cause giving zerg a third while you give terran a fourth is the recipe for a balanced map

DoubleReed

United States4130 Posts

January 21 2011 21:52 GMT

#314

Just a question: Isn't the gold extremely difficult to defend with zerg anyway? I mean do you see how cramped it looks? A ramp in one direction, two chokes, and a cliff? I guess you can with spinecrawlers, but seriously, that doesn't look easy to defend from any direction (for zerg).

This really looks like it makes it easier for Protoss and Terran to take an expansion, not zerg...

Mutarisk

United States153 Posts

January 21 2011 21:57 GMT

#315

If terrans are defending their 3rd/4th with siege tank/thor/missile turret heavy armies... you can grab broodlords... The middle position over the (now) 4th base is perfect for broodlords. Usually by the time im gearing up to grab and saturate my 4th I can get broodlords out.

Also, with the extra income from the gold (should puts zerg pretty mineral heavy at this point) throw down some static D at your 3rd.

Signum

Canada99 Posts

January 21 2011 22:04 GMT

#316

kinda wtf.. if a zerg takes that as his third and terran seiges at the zergs middle expand, zerg cant reinforce the third without running through tankfire. terran could just seige up, grab a small bioball big enough to lol through whatevers currently at the gold and kill it without the zerg having a hope of saving it.

mousepad

United States136 Posts

January 21 2011 22:05 GMT

#317

Interesting changes. Aggressive positioning is going to be something I'll have to consider as a Zerg player. I can't decide if its more advantageous to position my ground forces on the middle high ground or lower side lane when trying to secure the gold third. Either way I'll be wanting to position themselves really close to the opponent or hope for really good muta play otherwise they could do a simple cut maneuver to deny the gold third. I'm going to have to make sure those Seige tanks don't get anywhere near those high ground sweet spots.

+ Show Spoiler +

Terran Elevator Plays and Staggered Tanks could to be challenging to deal with (a good timing attack would do me in). I'm probably going to be experimenting with double expanding a little less thanks to the changes though.

PiLoKo

Mexico144 Posts

January 21 2011 22:12 GMT

#318

If your letting the Terran get his tanks and you are giving him the time to position and siege them behind the minerals, you should rather just gg from the very beggining.

I have no idea how this will play out, as a Zerg I would prefer to take the high groung 3rd if terran is taking the gold, and the gold if therran is takng the high ground expansion, if I can´t expand faster than them then I`m just doing something wrong.