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Even if casters do make too much money, they don't owe anything to the progamers. In every single sports organization, players are paid by their teams (along with winnings), not spectators or commentators. Spectators do help increase pay, though, but I don't see how people can draw a link between commentators being overpaid and progamers being underpaid.
If Husky/HD stopped getting paid, it's not like progamers would start getting paid more. Progamer pay and caster pay aren't inversely related. In fact, I would argue that they are directly related, and if caster pay continues to increase, then progamer pay will also increase.
If people are upset that Husky/HD are earning money without having a particularly unique and valuable set of skills (debatable), there are far better targets to complain about that earn far greater amounts of money in the entertainment industry.
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On January 20 2011 07:43 ptbl wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 07:37 Dagobert wrote:On January 20 2011 06:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:
There are 4 vital elements to eSports and without even one of those, eSports doesn't work. Looks something like this.
Players <> Casters <> Viewers <> Sponsors And how exactly does making casters pay for the material (other, legit casters have to (be employed by people who) pay for licenses, by the way, so it's not a far-fetched notion by any means) take casters (who create revenue) out of the equation? When casters put on tournaments, they need to get approval from Blizzard, so I guess that's a form of a license. However, I don't think the casters are paying blizzard for the right to host and organize tournaments.
Tournaments are one thing, definitely if a caster puts on a tournament he has rights to the replays can cast the games all he wants, by putting on the tourney he is giving the player some form of compensation.
But in the case where a caster just takes a random ladder replay and casts it on youtube and makes money on it he should give some small percent to the players involved.
It doesn't HURT the caster to give up 5% of his earnings of which he'd have none if the player never played the game.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Sorry. I don't get paid to moderate. I am actually up in arms that you guys create content on this website with posts and I have yet found a way to make money off of it.
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On January 20 2011 07:39 PatouPower wrote:
I am pretty sure all replays are the property of Blizzard anyways, since they created the format and the script to record in-game actions. One would have to read the contract, but I am pretty sure we are not the direct owners of our own replays, thus we cannot sell them. I could be wrong though...
Agreed. If anyone is to charge for replays, it would be Blizzard. So far they turned an blind eye to it because the casters are basically giving them free publicity.
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If TL thinks there are better quality casters out there, why not make a "featured caster of the week" section? I sure as hell wouldn't mind finding new ones, but I'm too lazy to scour youtube for casters of questionable quality when I can just click on good old HD or Husky.
Sure, Artosis is way better as a cast, he just doesn't churn out enough vids for me to get my fix.
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On January 20 2011 07:29 iNcontroL wrote:
It isn't like casters don't make this community better?
HD/Husky helped give a voice to the hundreds of thousands of newbs that complained about 2v2/3v3 balance. Without them we'd have flux vanes. You guys remember the horrible era of flux vanes?
With flux vanes we wouldn't have Jinro's mech vs. Protoss, I reckon. I'm sure as a toss this has you pissed, but I don't like void rays seeming to make carriers superfluous and this seems to have helped with that.
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On January 20 2011 07:38 iNcontroL wrote:
This is ridiculous..
Casters tirelessly sit in their house and commentate for a solid 15~30 fucking minutes A DAY on games that are extremely hard to describe. They painfully tax their brain to understanding something that would normally take years to master..
Lets not mention the top tier casters? Day9 almost weekly removes himself from the comforts of his own home to fly to scary, distant lands where he has never been and see people he has never met JUST TO COMMENTATE FOR YOU. Does he do it for the money? Sure. Does he do it for the experience? I guess. But mostly he does it because he is brave.
Tasteless and Artosis banished themselves from their home country.. left behind women, fame, money.. their mothers.. and are now living in isolation. FORCED to wear stupid jackets and sit in a high place while describing GSL games. You wonder why Tasteless is sick all the time? And you have the audacity to call to question a man as heroic as he making money commentating?
LMAO maybe HD and Husky should cast while sitting on unicycles above fire pits and they will never see threads like this again. 
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On January 20 2011 07:46 iNcontroL wrote:
Sorry. I don't get paid to moderate. I am actually up in arms that you guys create content on this website with posts and I have yet found a way to make money off of it.
Oh come on the point i was trying to make in this thread was whether the casters like hd or husky should give some of the money they make back to the people that , in a way created that content . Now you as a progamer could share some insight on this topic from your point of view instead of what you are doing right now. I would apreciate it and im sure so would everybody else
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On January 20 2011 06:07 Erandorr wrote:
Think about it : in any other sport, professional teams get a big percentage of the income created by the content they create.
what gave you this idea ? The team mates get a salary + bonuses and the star player or 2 gets paid big. In no way do the teams get a "big percentage" thats the owners.
You think when sony entertainment releases the CD of an artist, the the artist get anything more than a VERY small percentage of the content they create ?
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On January 20 2011 07:01 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 06:53 Kipsate wrote:
Seriously, why is there hate all over the interwebs for the casters. These people bring the game to the mainstream, I know people who don't even have SC2 installed yet watch the youtube channels. It is both great marketing for Blizzard and for E-sports.
While they do work hard, becoming a top caster has been more on a "first come first served" basis than becoming a top player. Once "good enough" casters got exposure, they became the top casters, and that's that. If they keep working to produce content, they keep their spots. If there are better casters out there that'd do better shows and/or work for less money, it's much less likely for us to ever discover them at this point. It's hard to break into the scene. Players, on the other hand, deserve all the respect in the world!
This is why we need monthly casting tournaments to decide who is allowed to cast the next month's tournament.
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On January 20 2011 07:46 Enervate wrote:
Even if casters do make too much money, they don't owe anything to the progamers. In every single sports organization, players are paid by their teams (along with winnings), not spectators or commentators. Spectators do help increase pay, though, but I don't see how people can draw a link between commentators being overpaid and progamers being underpaid.
If Husky/HD stopped getting paid, it's not like progamers would start getting paid more. Progamer pay and caster pay aren't inversely related. In fact, I would argue that they are directly related, and if caster pay continues to increase, then progamer pay will also increase.
If people are upset that Husky/HD are earning money without having a particularly unique and valuable set of skills (debatable), there are far better targets to complain about that earn far greater amounts of money in the entertainment industry.
this!
is you think it's unfair that some players get paid less than some casters, mail your concern to your favorite player team manager. read it before you click "send", and realize how stupid what you are saying actually is.
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On January 20 2011 07:47 Brotkrumen wrote:
If TL thinks there are better quality casters out there, why not make a "featured caster of the week" section? I sure as hell wouldn't mind finding new ones, but I'm too lazy to scour youtube for casters of questionable quality when I can just click on good old HD or Husky.
Sure, Artosis is way better as a cast, he just doesn't churn out enough vids for me to get my fix.
Tyler is right about this issue.
Being 'the best', or even 'better' has nothing to do with it. The architecture of youtube subscriptions rewards 'the first' and the pioneers ad infinitum.
The subscription model is a snowballing effect, to work it up from nothing (or nearly nothing, even with the help of a few thousand TL fans) is an insane obstacle to overcome.
As long as you got there first (a la HD and Husky), with a few marketing and promotional ploys, all you have to do is churn out mediocrity and you can maintain it.
That is my personal gripe with this system.
I would not begrudge Day9/TB/Artosis the guestimated earnings of Husky for the content they put out.
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On January 20 2011 07:51 Warlike Prince wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 06:07 Erandorr wrote:
Think about it : in any other sport, professional teams get a big percentage of the income created by the content they create. what gave you this idea ? The team mates get a salary + bonuses and the star player or 2 gets paid big. In no way do the teams get a "big percentage" thats the owners. You think when sony entertainment releases the CD of an artist, the the artist get anything more than a VERY small percentage of the content they create ?
Exactly. Look at books for example. Authors get a VERY small amount of the retail price of a book, despite them being the "content creators."
That being said, I do think commentators/casters are more content creators than players, at least in the sense of a casted game. Anyone can go find the replay of top play vs other top player, but most people would prefer to have it casted.
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On January 20 2011 07:38 iNcontroL wrote:
This is ridiculous..
Casters tirelessly sit in their house and commentate for a solid 15~30 fucking minutes A DAY on games that are extremely hard to describe. They painfully tax their brain to understanding something that would normally take years to master..
Lets not mention the top tier casters? Day9 almost weekly removes himself from the comforts of his own home to fly to scary, distant lands where he has never been and see people he has never met JUST TO COMMENTATE FOR YOU. Does he do it for the money? Sure. Does he do it for the experience? I guess. But mostly he does it because he is brave.
Tasteless and Artosis banished themselves from their home country.. left behind women, fame, money.. their mothers.. and are now living in isolation. FORCED to wear stupid jackets and sit in a high place while describing GSL games. You wonder why Tasteless is sick all the time? And you have the audacity to call to question a man as heroic as he making money commentating?
I love you so much. the only way this thread could be better is if someone brings it up on state of the game
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I got no problem with casters like pre-launch HD and Husky, day9, any tourney host like gosugamers or w/e making cash off their views, because they turn around and get sponsorships for tournaments, give back to the community, etc.
Recently, though, my opinion's shifted, specifically in the HDH scene. They never went through with the massive invitational they had planned, and post-release they really haven't done anything but use replays generated by other people's tournaments to get money. Even a modest $1 CPM (low for most content, but youtube could probably get away with it or less) would have them sitting at a literal shit ton of money off the past four or five months, during which they haven't actually been part of anything that's helped feed the people they cast playing. I mean, there's the occasional redeeming factor like HD casting his own experience learning to get better, but overall, these guys have been doing more leeching than seeding in the past months, and I'm not really a fan of that.
Something isn't right when the tourney organizers are making less than people who grab the reps and post a cast video.
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On January 20 2011 07:47 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 07:29 iNcontroL wrote:
It isn't like casters don't make this community better?
HD/Husky helped give a voice to the hundreds of thousands of newbs that complained about 2v2/3v3 balance. Without them we'd have flux vanes. You guys remember the horrible era of flux vanes? With flux vanes we wouldn't have Jinro's mech vs. Protoss, I reckon. I'm sure as a toss this has you pissed, but I don't like void rays seeming to make carriers superfluous and this seems to have helped with that.
Yes because with Flux Vanes Void Rays would absolutely dominate vikings and anything else you could throw at them. God those stacked up, 0 armor, sub 300 HP monsters destroy everything. Thor AoE, marine DPS vs unarmored targets, yamato blasts, and not to mention 9 range kiting machines that are vikings could do NOTHING to stop the Void Ray. THANK GOD that now they move as fast as a hydra off creep, no matter what you invest into them, so that now 1 viking can defeat infinity void rays, before they were just SO IMBA. Terran could do nothing to stop them before, at least now they have a complete counter available for the fair one time price of 150 minerals and 75 gas.
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casters have money ? that is really new =P
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I am posting these quotes as I know they are correct.
ofc feel free to believe it or not
I am a youtube partner and i do make enough to not have a job, but you do NOT get paid per channel views and per subscribers. You ONLY make money of of the advertisements in your videos, nothing more. Why would YouTube pay for channel views or even subscribers when they don’t make money off of that? They make money off of the ads so they give the partners a portion of their pay.
I’m a youtube partner. I dont make enough to quit my job. In Feb 2010 I made $800.00 off my youtube video views. I got around 600,000 views to make this amount. Partners get paid 2 ways. You get paid for clicks on ads and every 1000 ad impressions you get paid a certain amount. It depends on what the cost per 1000 ad impressions is that day. Partners can only track earnings for the adsense for content host in their adsense accounts. The youtube video view money is posted the following month. So what I made from youtube in feb off videos views will be added to the adsense for content host amount I make in March 2010. I will get that check in April.It will be over $1,000 before taxes. I wont say who I am but I have a music channel on youtube
You’re lucky to get $1 per 1000 views
Nobody gets paid per channel view, video view or subscriber, all you get is a share of the click through revenues
Therefore you can have 1000 views and earn $5.00 *IF* one in a hundred viewers click through to the ad on your video, equally you can have 1000 views and earn $0.05 if only 1 viewer clicks the ad
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On January 20 2011 07:49 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 07:46 iNcontroL wrote:
Sorry. I don't get paid to moderate. I am actually up in arms that you guys create content on this website with posts and I have yet found a way to make money off of it. Oh come on the point i was trying to make in this thread was whether the casters like hd or husky should give some of the money they make back to the people that , in a way created that content .
you want casters to pay blizzard royalties?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I actually feel bad for the production people above all.
Sirscoots?
Slasher?
Lee?
These are the true victims. Producing MLG, Lo3, WoC... behind the scenes and not getting ANYTHING. Fucking bigwigs like DjWheat rolling in fat stacks while scoots sits empty handed with his lowly tricaster... makes me sick.
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EPT
