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On January 20 2011 08:39 Plaxy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 08:32 debasers wrote:
I just wanna add that I have no idea why people actually like DjWheat and can dislike people like TotalBiscuit. tb doesn't understand how the internet works too well so he often gets a lot of hate for it. Like his all knowing attitude, for lack of a better phrase. And especially for his comments to IdrA calling him a bad troll and claiming "leave it to people who have been doing it a long time." People should really understand the difference between trolling and voicing an opinion.
'hahahahaha' is not an opinion. I think we all know how the internet works. It's full of assholes, none of us would say this shit in real life because we'd be too afraid of being punched out and we're all ultimately impotently waving our dicks around in an effort to impress other people behind monitor screens that we'll never meet.
Did I miss anything out?
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On January 20 2011 08:35 Chill wrote:
The problem here is that being good at something isn't the same as being the most worthy of money, despite people's good intentions. Good players need to whore themselves out for endorsements, sponsorship, and coaching to make money. Even things like premium streams and selling replays may become ways to make money. Being good at Starcraft doesn't suddenly make you money.
The same is true about commentators. Just being a good commentator doesn't get you money, it takes a certain amount of public relations and business development to start making money. If you want to commentate full time, actual commentating skill is the least important of the three skills (commentating, PR, BD).
Thank you that was the point i was trying to make with my ill phrased OP . In a perfect world there would be an easy way to reward the players, but you obviously cant force casters to share the money they make. Some of them are not as succesful as Husky and might need every cent they get but the same goes for the less succesful progamers. An interesting idea that Day9 started for exactly one week was his mini tournament where he gave back some of the money he made .. for exactly one week but i think that might be actually not a bad idea. How about a weekly tournament by Huskyor HD where they give some of their own money back to the community?
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On January 20 2011 08:22 Warlike Prince wrote:
DJ wheat works a full time job unrelated to video games. The man is a machine and does what he does for esports because he loves it.
Also incontrol knows hes not rolling in stacks, dude a couple posts above got trolled
Are you kidding me? iNcontrol was not being sarcastic at all this thread. Maybe you should go reread his posts.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://www.67250.com/nokarot/Photo_Related/MLGDC/web/6.jpg) Look at that face. Look into those eyes. Look deeper. If seriousness was a person that would be it.
On January 20 2011 08:07 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 07:55 Geovu wrote:On January 20 2011 07:47 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On January 20 2011 07:29 iNcontroL wrote:
It isn't like casters don't make this community better?
HD/Husky helped give a voice to the hundreds of thousands of newbs that complained about 2v2/3v3 balance. Without them we'd have flux vanes. You guys remember the horrible era of flux vanes? With flux vanes we wouldn't have Jinro's mech vs. Protoss, I reckon. I'm sure as a toss this has you pissed, but I don't like void rays seeming to make carriers superfluous and this seems to have helped with that. Yes because with Flux Vanes Void Rays would absolutely dominate vikings and anything else you could throw at them. God those stacked up, 0 armor, sub 300 HP monsters destroy everything. Thor AoE, marine DPS vs unarmored targets, yamato blasts, and not to mention 9 range kiting machines that are vikings could do NOTHING to stop the Void Ray. THANK GOD that now they move as fast as a hydra off creep, no matter what you invest into them, so that now 1 viking can defeat infinity void rays, before they were just SO IMBA. Terran could do nothing to stop them before, at least now they have a complete counter available for the fair one time price of 150 minerals and 75 gas. [void ray blablabla snip] This is all irrelevant anyway, there's no reason for people to be so condescending to players of 2v2 and 3v3 and if Husky and HD helped those players get the game fixed, major kudos to those guys. No one has contested that it helped the game for 2v2 and 3v3. If it broke 1v1, we should be talking about what changes Blizzard should have made to fix 2v2 and 3v3 without breaking 1v1. We should not be blaming Husky and HD for pointing out a problem and having Blizzard make the wrong response.
Yes I definitely want my 1v1 experience balanced upon what the tens of thousands bronze team league noobs are QQing over the most. You know, since void ray speed is specifically what makes them so broken (and not something silly like their charged up attack) and is gotten 100% of every team game where a toss masses void rays.
Stopping the sarcasm for a moment, I'd like to state that mass muta is a hundred times more difficult to deal with in team games. Since my opinion is worth at least 1 million or so bronze noob opinions, I reckon blizzard will nerf their movement speed, make them classified as armored and get rid of their splash glaive attack by the next patch.
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But where is Blizzard in all this? Husky etc. are earning money from a blizzard product and I heard they don't like that.
Fucking sue Husky for IP violation.
+ Show Spoiler +And deny how much more money Blizzard themselves has made from Husky. ^^ + Show Spoiler +
And realize that I actually don't care about husky in this matter.
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On January 20 2011 08:52 prochobo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 08:44 stinger_ro wrote:On January 20 2011 08:21 hmunkey wrote:Ok so I found out about this on Reddit today and while I can't 100% vouch for its accuracy, it should shed some light on how much YouTube partners make, at least in a rough way. It was created by Renetto (here's his Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Robinett), one of the first YouTube partners back when YT was experimenting with the program and it shows how much money each partner should be making. http://www.myu2b.com/![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6ZaI5.png) Keep in mind it may not be fully accurate, but regardless it's better than all the random guessing going on and it's as close as we'll ever get because of YT's strict NDA policies. It is interesting however as it shows Husky making over $550 a day on average, which is a pretty obscene ~$200,000 a year salary. Obscene ? Compared to what ? Grow up. This is an extreme niche job - that involves a lot of risk - i'm saying good for him if it pays off. Would you focus on casting ? - you would if it netted you 100k wouldn't you ? but he didn't have this guarantee and neither do you if you start now... he did a risky thing, was there at the right moment and its fortunately worked out ok. Also i really doubt those figures - terms and conditions for partners aren't that linear.  I totally beleive that figure. In fact, I think it's a little low. They have millions and millions of monthly views. The sky is the limit when it comes to internet marketing, which is basically what HD, Husky, and others are doing. People easily rake in $1k+ a day with much less traffic, so $550/day isn't high at all.
Right but these people monetize much much better than Google Adsense does. I assume you're talking about Internet marketing sites.
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On January 20 2011 08:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 08:39 Plaxy wrote:On January 20 2011 08:32 debasers wrote:
I just wanna add that I have no idea why people actually like DjWheat and can dislike people like TotalBiscuit. tb doesn't understand how the internet works too well so he often gets a lot of hate for it. Like his all knowing attitude, for lack of a better phrase. And especially for his comments to IdrA calling him a bad troll and claiming "leave it to people who have been doing it a long time." People should really understand the difference between trolling and voicing an opinion. 'hahahahaha' is not an opinion. I think we all know how the internet works. It's full of assholes, none of us would say this shit in real life because we'd be too afraid of being punched out and we're all ultimately impotently waving our dicks around in an effort to impress other people behind monitor screens that we'll never meet. Did I miss anything out?
Well i was actually just trying to start an interesting discussion when a british caster decided to wave his dick around and actually started all this shit . Did I miss anything?
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On January 20 2011 06:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Oh this will end well.
A fairly massive thing you've failed to take into consideration is that without casters, you literally have no professional eSports. Sponsors will not pay a cent for something that isn't going to get publicised. It's not just 'oh the games would be boring without casters', it is the 'oh, nobody is getting paid because the sponsors can't get their brand out there because we don't have any prominent casters'.
There are 4 vital elements to eSports and without even one of those, eSports doesn't work. Looks something like this.
Players <> Casters <> Viewers <> Sponsors
Take one of those out of the equation and you have no professional eSports. Probably best not to fuck with an element of it on that basis.
Consider this. In eSports, a 'caster' such as say, Husky, is not merely a commentator, he is an entirely television network in and of himself. If you're talking about 'buying the rights' to a series or tournament, then this already happens, though it's usually through a beneficial arrangement to all 4 elements of that equation. The caster uses his prominence and audience to bargain with the sponsors, to secure money for the players. He does not take money from the prizepool for himself (unless he is a complete dick and I really hope this doesn't happen), he is compensated via the ad revenue that his channel generates (and could easily generate from something that isn't Starcraft if need be). The players get paid, the sponsors get their brand recognition, the caster is compensated and the viewers get their entertainment without paying a dime.
I couldn't possibly not be biased on this subject, but I would like to think people wouldn't want to mess with that system, lest it fall apart and benefit no-one at all.
listen to the man. he speaks the truth, nothing to add. 
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Ohh, now we know the real reason incontrol is trying to get his name out as a caster. The important thing isn't that he's good at it, or ridiculously entertaining - it's the easy $$
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On January 20 2011 06:14 CrazyCow wrote:
YouTube partnership doesn't really give that much money, contrary to popular belief. I'd be surprised if HD and Husky were breaking $20k/year. Compare that with IdrA's salary.
According to Myu2b.com he makes ~$500 a day (well he made $568 in the past 24 hours) which would be $150k a year assuming he made that much every day. Of course that is trusting in the system of MyU2B that calculates the money, because I'm pretty sure it isn't a direct affiliate with Google so all the numbers are estimates.
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Casters ARE making money by sitting on their asses? They get replays for free and with minimal effort (visit a replay site, hit download on a big name) and spend about 20-30 minutes recording commentary, editing, and uploading - and get potentially several thousand dollars?
In what way do they have to work hard to make money?
Just because its easy doesn't mean anyone can do it. Go ahead try - let me know when you hit the 300k subscriber mark. And when you get to a measly 5k let me know if you feel its been worth it: time, effort & feedback.
Its not a gold rush - its a land grab.
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On January 20 2011 08:55 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 08:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 20 2011 08:39 Plaxy wrote:On January 20 2011 08:32 debasers wrote:
I just wanna add that I have no idea why people actually like DjWheat and can dislike people like TotalBiscuit. tb doesn't understand how the internet works too well so he often gets a lot of hate for it. Like his all knowing attitude, for lack of a better phrase. And especially for his comments to IdrA calling him a bad troll and claiming "leave it to people who have been doing it a long time." People should really understand the difference between trolling and voicing an opinion. 'hahahahaha' is not an opinion. I think we all know how the internet works. It's full of assholes, none of us would say this shit in real life because we'd be too afraid of being punched out and we're all ultimately impotently waving our dicks around in an effort to impress other people behind monitor screens that we'll never meet. Did I miss anything out? Well i was actually just trying to start an interesting discussion when a british caster decided to wave his dick around and actually started all this shit . Did I miss anything?
I love it when any thread on this site mentions HD or Husky in a negative light because you damn well know within minutes TotalBiscut will be here telling everyone how HDH are the greatest humans known to man, save children in their spare time, and will cure every disease on the planet. I just read all his posts in my head as if he was casting it with his super epic voice and it's pretty fun !
I personally think that there is a nice synergy and without these casters promoting the players. I also don't know any caster that is capable of currently making up to $87,000 a month like a pro player.....
I think there is plenty of undiscovered and discovered ways for pro gamers to make extra $. I don't think replays is a good one however.
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This thread is made of dissapoint - its seriously made me think less of the people on TL (not all) - half the things expressed are hateful and full of childish gealousy.
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On January 20 2011 08:54 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 08:35 Chill wrote:
The problem here is that being good at something isn't the same as being the most worthy of money, despite people's good intentions. Good players need to whore themselves out for endorsements, sponsorship, and coaching to make money. Even things like premium streams and selling replays may become ways to make money. Being good at Starcraft doesn't suddenly make you money.
The same is true about commentators. Just being a good commentator doesn't get you money, it takes a certain amount of public relations and business development to start making money. If you want to commentate full time, actual commentating skill is the least important of the three skills (commentating, PR, BD). Thank you that was the point i was trying to make with my ill phrased OP . In a perfect world there would be an easy way to reward the players, but you obviously cant force casters to share the money they make. Some of them are not as succesful as Husky and might need every cent they get but the same goes for the less succesful progamers. An interesting idea that Day9 started for exactly one week was his mini tournament where he gave back some of the money he made .. for exactly one week but i think that might be actually not a bad idea. How about a weekly tournament by Huskyor HD where they give some of their own money back to the community?
Its getting a bit ridiculous where people are trying to say Day9 in every argument they make just to prove a point. He's a great guy but people really need to grow their own opinions.
In the SC community no one is entitled to anything, and things have grown basically on freebies from great content creators who basically gave everything to the community for free. Now obviously the community wants this shit for free because they're not used to paying for it, but say you're a caster and all of a sudden you're getting sponsored and getting money and now its your job.
No one can blame this caster if he decides to keep all his money. Its like saying "Oh shit I got paid by my job but my boss is so good to me he deserves some of it back because he gave me some pencils this week." In no holy starcraft bible does it say a caster has to give back to the community just because they feel they're entitled to it. It'd be great if they did, but it doesn't always work that way.
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Yeah it's unfortunate that in E-Sport the Progamer, dedicates the most time, the hardest work, and gets payed the least.
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On January 20 2011 08:57 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 06:14 CrazyCow wrote:
YouTube partnership doesn't really give that much money, contrary to popular belief. I'd be surprised if HD and Husky were breaking $20k/year. Compare that with IdrA's salary. According to Myu2b.com he makes ~$500 a day (well he made $568 in the past 24 hours) which would be $150k a year assuming he made that much every day. Of course that is trusting in the system of MyU2B that calculates the money, because I'm pretty sure it isn't a direct affiliate with Google so all the numbers are estimates.
I'm pretty damn sure it only works for channels that grannies view.
actually most of people that does watch sc2 probably use ad block all the time and dont click in anything at all ....
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On January 20 2011 09:02 NearPerfection wrote:
Yeah it's unfortunate that in E-Sport the Progamer, dedicates the most time, the hardest work, and gets payed the least.
Every try getting a PhD in science?
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On January 20 2011 08:52 resilve wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 08:43 gulati wrote:On January 20 2011 08:34 noD wrote:
everytime u guys say about rich casters i remember day9 thanking that he fixed his glasses thanks to a donation 100 epps after they were broken and serious wonder, r they serious @ this topic ? =X I giggle when people think casters are somehow evil corporations. Look at Sean's poor chipped tooth and his taped glasses that he had forever. You really think he is rolling around in fat stacks? Hahaha... Wake up people. Nobody is making money by sitting on their asses doing nothing. If one thing I have learned in life, it is that money doesn't grow on trees. (And for the assholes who will try to say "money = paper, so yes it does"... no. Money is made of linen and cotton, you failure.) You have to work hard for what you make. If you are making money, you are doing something that requires work. Lets just hope it is not illegal. I dont know how the college situation works in the USA - but in terms of SC2 I am 99% sure day9 could make several fold his current income from the game if he had the time and inclination. The fact that he isn't is most likely an expression of his view on life, work-load or comfort with his situation, I would have thought. But surely you counter your own argument? Casters ARE making money by sitting on their asses? They get replays for free and with minimal effort (visit a replay site, hit download on a big name) and spend about 20-30 minutes recording commentary, editing, and uploading - and get potentially several thousand dollars? In what way do they have to work hard to make money?
Casting requires work. We are not speaking about the science defintion of work, meaning the amount of joules of output blah blah blah. We are speaking of the layman's term definition of work. Casting is difficult; it requires certain talents and skills that not any average joe can do. Lets see you face the pressure of having 9,000 live viewers listening to your every breath each night for an hour. I assure you that you would be on the verge of a panic attack. (I know for god damn sure I would, and I am not afraid to admit it).
So no, you are wrong. They are doing work. The replays are free because players choose to upload them for free. And "potentially several thousand dollars"- go ahead and tell any commentator to publicly state how much they make per replay. I will bow down to you if it's even close to a thousand. You are living in a fantasy world.
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I dont believe that the actual replays themselves constitute as intellectual property. The casts however definitely are.
I'm only assuming this because this is how it is in chess. In chess individual games from a player are not considered intellectual property; however, content produced about a game is. (either in books, videos, magazines, ect...)
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The same is true about commentators. Just being a good commentator doesn't get you money, it takes a certain amount of public relations and business development to start making money. If you want to commentate full time, actual commentating skill is the least important of the three skills (commentating, PR, BD).
THIS.
i'd just like to add that .. a good commentator is indeed all that not just one part. in society pure skill will only get you so far if you are a dick.
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Is it news that different professions doesn't pay in proportion to effort and importance? If this is a problem to you, you need to go to a communist country, because this is what capitalism is. Supply and demand dictates all profits, not time spent.
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EPT
