Let me start by saying that the following statements -likely- do not apply to the majority of Professional eSport athlete's.
Unlike most other sport's, eSport's doesn't have a governing body that can regulate player's and their actions. At this point, it's up to the players, the managers, and beyond that their teams to keep their member's in line. With that said my problem lies in the way that some so called -Professional- athlete's treat the sport and the event's that surround it. There are those athlete's that agree to an event, receive all relevant event information, as well as contact information and then proceed to take advantage of the limitation's of the event admins. Specifically, they will check in extremely late, delay their match times, and generally disrespect all of the hard work that goes into planning the event. It's absolutely infuriating and extremely stressful. Particularly when you have an active stream of thousands and a strict event itinerary. Of course, the players know all of this and because they know that the event admin's are limited in their options they continue to press their advantage.
I actually think teams are just as liable as the player's. Team's, particularly with respect to new, or younger members, need to manage their players better.
But as I said at the beginning, this doesn't apply to everyone. Or even probably the majority. I can verify that some Professional athletes are in fact truly Professional. Making efforts to read pre-event info, keep in regular contact, and maintain professional and appreciative attitude throughout the whole event.
TLDR Some player's are failing to treat eSport's with the respect and professionalism it deserves.
This in no way represent's the combined opinion's of the SCReddit.com community or the SCRI event staff. It's purely my opinion.
I would call someone a pro if they're sponsored to play and they represent something (a brand, company, product, etc).
If using my definition of "pro", then most pros do indeed have a governing body, their sponsors. If they show poor sportsmanship and just display themselves as a total dick, the sponsors won't be happy.
Also, korean esports has the KeSPA... which is a really large governing figure over broodwar scene and other esports games like Special Forces (...)
Anyone who isn't showing Professional behavior isn't a PRO. That's how I see this.
What kind of events are you referring to? Online tournaments, the GSL, others?
I wasn't aware of the - as you suggest - big number of (due to lack of punishment) "unreliable" players. Can you cite any occasions where this has happened, or where you got this impression from?
A system can't be based on hoping that a large number of people (in this case, players) doing the right thing by themselves. If you are having trouble with this issue, I think you'll need to work with other tournament admins to set up guidelines where players have real consequences if they don't follow the rules.
It doesn't matter if it's the team or players fault - if they don't have consequences there is no reason for them to change.
I think you're taking esports a little too serious. It's a bunch of nerds who play videogames for money. what do you expect really? It doesn't deserve anything.
I don't really agree. If people BM/Cheat they get banned from leagues/tournaments. It might not happen too much right now, but it will happen more as the game develops.
On January 18 2011 09:46 InRainbows wrote: I think you're taking esports a little too serious. It's a bunch of nerds who play videogames for money. what do you expect really? It doesn't deserve anything.
Uh... It's more than that.
Inversely, I can say sports are just a bunch of jocks lifting weights to jump through hoops (or run in circles).
Don't simplify things because you either don't understand the scope of things or simply don't agree with them.
If Esports was just that, the popularity would be reflected.
On January 18 2011 09:46 InRainbows wrote: I think you're taking esports a little too serious. It's a bunch of nerds who play videogames for money. what do you expect really? It doesn't deserve anything.
it's a new market. It's a place where computer related business entities can advertise. A new space of marketing. The game itself is not the focus for companies, it is the audience and consumers. It's serious because money can be generated from it.
also basically it's up to each org/tourney to come up with rules
otherwise you can't "regulate" what idra says in an interview and to do so would be ridiculous. I'd rather hear what the players think than "I will try my hardest" and "it will be tough"
I love Kennigits quote on SotG so i will use it again - he basically said we are a bunch of nerds trying to legitimise an esports industry.. things like professionalism are lacking but i think it is because these are a rather foreign concept. Esports isn't globally at the level were professional or unprofessional conduct would really affect anything.. However, i agree there are many many small things that tend to annoy me and hinder esports' ability to solidify itself.. Tasteless saying "bumrushed" during a live cast, Jinro swearing on a live interview (i know he is swedish, but that shouldn't be an excuse).. However these are rather minor infractions..
You also have to look to people like ChoyafOu - he was caught laddering in a dodgy fashion (paper, scissors, rock to win) and was banned from the team league and received and official warning..
Everyone knows about naniwa and ESL so no need to repeat..
So these are signs of some sort of framework.. All of us want esports to become a serious enterprise but i dont think there are that many of us that want to take esports seriously.. we still want it to be "fun" ..
On January 18 2011 09:46 InRainbows wrote: I think you're taking esports a little too serious. It's a bunch of nerds who play videogames for money. what do you expect really? It doesn't deserve anything.
Football is a bunch of hooligans trying to kick a ball in a goal.
Or ehh, a bunch of pub gooers who throw small arrows into cork for a living. :')
Professional sport has always been kind of a silly thing.
Also, regulating organs in sports are usually disastrous, more often than not they end up being like KeSPA, answering to companies and sponsors, not to players and fans. This whole 'e-sport licence' they have going is ridiculous, together with whipping aplenty for players who don't stand in line. Such as players who sit down and talk with blizzard.
It's been like this in about any sport which is centrally regulated, let tournaments decide on their own sanction on players.
What strikes me as completely silly is that some Koreans are now actually in jail for what comes down to receiving money for not doing their best at a videogame. If you can make a living by winning at a computer game, why not by losing at it?
On January 18 2011 09:38 cazter wrote: Let me start by saying that the following statements -likely- do not apply to the majority of Professional eSport athlete's.
Unlike most other sport's, eSport's doesn't have a governing body that can regulate player's and their actions. At this point, it's up to the players, the managers, and beyond that their teams to keep their member's in line. With that said my problem lies in the way that some so called -Professional- athlete's treat the sport and the event's that surround it. There are those athlete's that agree to an event, receive all relevant event information, as well as contact information and then proceed to take advantage of the limitation's of the event admins. Specifically, they will check in extremely late, delay their match times, and generally disrespect all of the hard work that goes into planning the event. It's absolutely infuriating and extremely stressful. Particularly when you have an active stream of thousands and a strict event itinerary. Of course, the players know all of this and because they know that the event admin's are limited in their options they continue to press their advantage.
I actually think teams are just as liable as the player's. Team's, particularly with respect to new, or younger members, need to manage their players better.
But as I said at the beginning, this doesn't apply to everyone. Or even probably the majority. I can verify that some Professional athletes are in fact truly Professional. Making efforts to read pre-event info, keep in regular contact, and maintain professional and appreciative attitude throughout the whole event.
TLDR Some player's are failing to treat eSport's with the respect and professionalism it deserves.
You obviously didnt do any research before posting this. KeSPA is a governing body over all BW progamers. None of the stuff you listed happens at proleague/osl/msl events, because all these leagues and the players in them are truly professional. Compared to the BW scene, SC2 'esports' are amateur events atm, like hockey before the NHL was created. People who arent professionals cant be expected to act like them.
I think before this discussion can be pushed forward, the concept and definition of professionalism should be established. All sports, even outside the sport, have some forms of lack of professionalism within their players.
On January 18 2011 09:59 zyzski wrote: there's a difference between having a personality and being "unprofessional", come on now
Yeh and the difference is the growth and future of Esports. If you're a public person, attending in broadcasted tournaments and such then it wouldnt be too bad to concider the approach and attitude towards the other player in perpective to the audiance. Dont flame. Stay classy. Improve Esport as a whole.
This is up to the organizers. DQ a few dummies for being 15 minutes late - make it very public. Watch people show up on time. This policy resulted in TSL 1/2 running very smoothly.
On January 18 2011 09:46 InRainbows wrote: I think you're taking esports a little too serious. It's a bunch of nerds who play videogames for money. what do you expect really? It doesn't deserve anything.
It's one of my greatest goals and passions in life to see that eSport's succeed's in the West. If that seems silly to some, then so be it.
On January 18 2011 09:47 zimz wrote: The tournament runner makes the rules. if you don't disqualify them when they do those things, then its your fault.
Spoken in ignorance.
We can make rules all day long but it's hardly a matter of scratching a DQ'ed player off our yellow legal paper pad. There are marketing efforts, graphics, and tournament composition that all surround even just a single players involvement.
On January 18 2011 10:06 ZeroChrome wrote: You obviously didnt do any research before posting this. KeSPA is a governing body over all BW progamers. None of the stuff you listed happens at proleague/osl/msl events, because all these leagues and the players in them are truly professional. Compared to the BW scene, SC2 'esports' are amateur events atm, like hockey before the NHL was created. People who arent professionals cant be expected to act like them.
I wasn't talking about BW. I didn't even post in the BW forum.
This was specifically with regard to eSport's in the west.
On January 18 2011 10:25 Kennigit wrote: This is up to the organizers. DQ a few dummies for being 15 minutes late - make it very public. Watch people show up on time. This policy resulted in TSL 1/2 running very smoothly.
As organizers we could certainly plan on "dummies" and have alternates in place. But what I said still applies. To elaborate on that I would say that really good marketing, particularly as we look into the future, will involve including the players in your event announcements. Simply saying "Big Ass Tournament - With $$$$$" won't result in the level of success we, as event organizers, need to be pushing for. Rather we need to market our players, build a story around them and work to connect our audience to them.
For an example I'll use Psy (who is not connected to my original post). Psy for the most part is just one more in-game alias. But with good marketing we could create material that would bring about a personality, or a character in his person that people could connect with. This allows our audience to connect with more then just random SC2 facts.
Effort's like these will almost certainly be the future of SC2 marketing. But if players don't live up to their end of the bargain then everything falls through.
On January 18 2011 10:25 Kennigit wrote: This is up to the organizers. DQ a few dummies for being 15 minutes late - make it very public. Watch people show up on time. This policy resulted in TSL 1/2 running very smoothly.
While this public spectacle would greatly achieve the results we are hoping for - i would imagine people representing teams or even just themselves would proactively _want_ to act in a professional manner.. not simply as a reaction to punishment..
On January 18 2011 09:46 InRainbows wrote: I think you're taking esports a little too serious. It's a bunch of nerds who play videogames for money. what do you expect really? It doesn't deserve anything.
It's one of my greatest goals and passions in life to see that eSport's succeed's in the West. If that seems silly to some, then so be it.
On January 18 2011 09:47 zimz wrote: The tournament runner makes the rules. if you don't disqualify them when they do those things, then its your fault.
Spoken in ignorance.
We can make rules all day long but it's hardly a matter of scratching a DQ'ed player off our yellow legal paper pad. There are marketing efforts, graphics, and tournament composition that all surround even just a single players involvement.
On January 18 2011 10:06 ZeroChrome wrote: You obviously didnt do any research before posting this. KeSPA is a governing body over all BW progamers. None of the stuff you listed happens at proleague/osl/msl events, because all these leagues and the players in them are truly professional. Compared to the BW scene, SC2 'esports' are amateur events atm, like hockey before the NHL was created. People who arent professionals cant be expected to act like them.
I wasn't talking about BW. I didn't even post in the BW forum.
This was specifically with regard to eSport's in the west.
It still applies. Western esports are amateur esports. You cant stop unprofessionalism in a random online tournament that is open to the public. If players show up late or do some other bad service to the fans or the other players they should just be disqualified, regardless of how good or famous they are.
The biggest thing that had me appreciating the SCRI was how tightly run it all seemed to be (the casters, production, etc were all awesome as well though).
What kills me when watching a live event is downtime and delays that are either unexpected or unexpectedly long. I get aggravated when there's randomly 20 minutes between matches, commercial breaks showing up out of the blue, and so forth.
On January 18 2011 09:57 Tiazi wrote: well e-sports players are human after all.. I don't think its worse or better than other sports to be honest.
I would have to agree. People who are rude and late in real life are going to be the same online. Not everyone is going to be super professional but there will definitely be players that we can point to and say that they represent the good in esports.
I'd love to tell people we don't rage at others like on consoles, we are proud players of starcraft. We are gentlemen and ladies. Like pro sports players, pro starcraft players are looked up to because of their skill.
On January 18 2011 09:46 InRainbows wrote: I think you're taking esports a little too serious. It's a bunch of nerds who play videogames for money. what do you expect really? It doesn't deserve anything.
It's one of my greatest goals and passions in life to see that eSport's succeed's in the West. If that seems silly to some, then so be it.
On January 18 2011 09:47 zimz wrote: The tournament runner makes the rules. if you don't disqualify them when they do those things, then its your fault.
Spoken in ignorance.
We can make rules all day long but it's hardly a matter of scratching a DQ'ed player off our yellow legal paper pad. There are marketing efforts, graphics, and tournament composition that all surround even just a single players involvement.
No, your the ignorant one. All organizations are run by rules. Players/coaches have rules they have to abide to when they join the NBA etc. Players and coaches who break the rules get fined, disqualified for number of days/ depending on how bad it is. It doesn't matter if they make millions/famous, etc.
Just like many famous players who were disqualified for TSL2.
On January 18 2011 09:38 cazter wrote: Let me start by saying that the following statements -likely- do not apply to the majority of Professional eSport athlete's.
Unlike most other sport's, eSport's doesn't have a governing body that can regulate player's and their actions. At this point, it's up to the players, the managers, and beyond that their teams to keep their member's in line. With that said my problem lies in the way that some so called -Professional- athlete's treat the sport and the event's that surround it. There are those athlete's that agree to an event, receive all relevant event information, as well as contact information and then proceed to take advantage of the limitation's of the event admins. Specifically, they will check in extremely late, delay their match times, and generally disrespect all of the hard work that goes into planning the event. It's absolutely infuriating and extremely stressful. Particularly when you have an active stream of thousands and a strict event itinerary. Of course, the players know all of this and because they know that the event admin's are limited in their options they continue to press their advantage.
I actually think teams are just as liable as the player's. Team's, particularly with respect to new, or younger members, need to manage their players better.
But as I said at the beginning, this doesn't apply to everyone. Or even probably the majority. I can verify that some Professional athletes are in fact truly Professional. Making efforts to read pre-event info, keep in regular contact, and maintain professional and appreciative attitude throughout the whole event.
Pretty sure he's talking about SC1 bub.
TLDR Some player's are failing to treat eSport's with the respect and professionalism it deserves.
You obviously didnt do any research before posting this. KeSPA is a governing body over all BW progamers. None of the stuff you listed happens at proleague/osl/msl events, because all these leagues and the players in them are truly professional. Compared to the BW scene, SC2 'esports' are amateur events atm, like hockey before the NHL was created. People who arent professionals cant be expected to act like them.
I think there is responsibility for both the players and the organizers. Let's say Cazter's opinions are based around some very rigid tournament structure that has built hype around specific players and the matches that they are going to be played (similarly to SCRI). I think this is a fantastic way to run a tournament, because it gets huge recognition and becomes highly enjoyable for the audience.
The problem with this structure is that players can take advantage of the fact that they, more or less, have to play (because so much time went into making graphics and advertising the games), by showing up late or demanding byes for opponents that show up late etc -- when it should be up to the organizers. The rigid structure basically gives players administrative power.
My suggestion would be not having specific games casted, but really just *next available games* when you have more than 1 game going on at once. That way there is less time between games and when players have to go take a dump or something in the middle of the tournament you can switch to a different game when it's in the earlier stages.
Also, don't be afraid to disqualify players, even if you have put x number of hours into graphics etc. The sanctity of the tournament is more important than pretty videos and establishing a connection with your audience; it can be the best looking tournament ever, in 1080p with fucking monster trucks bringing in the players and crazy shit, but if the logistics of the tournament aren't sound, if players are running around stabbing audience members or something, then no one is going to care about the show -- at the end of the day it's the tournament that matters. If someone is 20 minutes late and not in contact, you DQ that person, say better luck next time, and move on with the show. No point in letting the legitimacy of the tournament suffer because of a butthurt player.
Op seems like he was born yesterday. There's tourneys with famous players like every week on TL for years. and if you have no rules then you do a dis-service to your viewers/the other player/s who was on time. I've seen small Tourneys, to big prize tourneys to professional tourneys like 10, every month. were you like born yesterday. Ive seen tourneys with big production value based on a few players also.(this is not new either)
Having run events recently, I can agree to an extent that there are a spoiled few out there that fail to care about anything. However, this is not an industry problem, its just a personality problem. Same with all sporting events, theres always jerks in the elite because of their talent. Its bound to happen, and governing it? Well, just dont let them into your tournament next time.
You are likely to see 1 or 2 sour apples per tournament online. But thats because of the giant wall the internet builds in terms of 'protection'. I can say whatever i want to say online, as I am anonymous (well not really anymore but you get my point). I dare say that the guys who do not do the right thing online, rarely go to offline events, and if they do, are usually the most quiet of people.
Complaining about it isn't going to get you anywhere
On January 18 2011 10:39 FearGorm wrote: Please keep in mind that this does not represent an official opinion of the SCReddit staff or the SCRI organizers.
Quite glad it does not.
Cazter, you are taking this too seriously. A tournament that is run online is going to have all kinds of issues involved, and if the organizers don't put down some rules that the players need to abide by, it is their own issue.
It is in the player's interest to not get disqualified over being late and such, and being an organizer means realizing when you need to draw a line. You can't politely ask for people to be more "professional" when there is no actual incentive.
In short, stop whining if you don't have the balls to do something about it.
On January 18 2011 10:25 Kennigit wrote: This is up to the organizers. DQ a few dummies for being 15 minutes late - make it very public. Watch people show up on time. This policy resulted in TSL 1/2 running very smoothly.
This is very true, even if it messes up the build up of the event you need to draw a fine line and set an example. DQ any players for being douches and if the buildup of the game is ruined, the community and viewers will know it was the players fault for X reason. Players will build up a reputation for being douches and unless their behaviour changes, they will suffer consequences in terms of invites to events.
Players will also know where the line is drawn, and what flexibility the organizers can allow. I think this is key.
On January 18 2011 09:46 InRainbows wrote: I think you're taking esports a little too serious. It's a bunch of nerds who play videogames for money. what do you expect really? It doesn't deserve anything.
MLG has raised $50 M in venture capital, if I recall.
It was a bunch of nerds playing videogames for money, but if they expect to actually be professional -- make a living playing videogames -- they should probably act accordingly, and treat the sport and the people that make it happen with respect.
Most of us are playing the game expecting to make $$ out of it. That mostly comes from popularity (more invites to big events / more people asking for lessons / other opportunities) as well as from winning tournaments. The two lead one into another. It's hard to be popular if you're not doing well in tournaments. That being said - people are going to act in a manner they choose that still allows them to do what they want to.
I bet if GSL really cracked down on professionalism you would see the end of idra rage because it's not worth losing that opportunity. Right now very few if any tournaments have any kind of restrictions on past behavior.
short story - people will be professional when they have to be.
On January 18 2011 10:26 cazter wrote: Rather we need to market our players, build a story around them and work to connect our audience to them.
For an example I'll use Psy (who is not connected to my original post). Psy for the most part is just one more in-game alias. But with good marketing we could create material that would bring about a personality, or a character in his person that people could connect with. This allows our audience to connect with more then just random SC2 facts.
Then dont market the douches. I honestly cannot believe that every participating well known player is a douche. Disqualify the douches, ban them from future tournaments. Read which players are banned from other tournaments and ban them too (if a good reason for the ban is provided).
Players will change when they suddenly cannot get any invites to tournaments. And if they dont change, there are a lot more players in the "sport" who'll gladly take their places. There doesnt exist that "one" player who needs to be in a tournament. As long as the casters are good & the games are entertaining who plays doesnt really matter that much.
Imagine it being a club / LAN. Yes, it might be harsh to kick out the loud, annoying, swearing guy no one likes. But everyone else will thank you for it for creating a better atmosphere.
I agree entirely with what you say and have some problems of mine own lately with players acting unprofessionally and generally having a poor attitude. It's a shame really but it happens and we have to cope with it! Luckily, not everyone is in the same boat!
Yeah Your right people dont respect each other. Michael Jordan never trash talked. Tiger woods never slept with prostitutes, Tom Brady never walked off the field without shaking the GIants hands after losing the superbowl
THIS IS A COMPETITIVE GAME. People play to win. Deal with the trash talk jesus christ... Have any of you even played a SPORT? What these "Unprofessional players" do would be considered Highly respectful in football... my god.
On January 19 2011 09:05 BetterFasterStronger wrote: Yeah Your right people dont respect each other. Michael Jordan never trash talked. Tiger woods never slept with prostitutes, Tom Brady never walked off the field without shaking the GIants hands after losing the superbowl
THIS IS A COMPETITIVE GAME. People play to win. Deal with the trash talk jesus christ... Have any of you even played a SPORT? What these "Unprofessional players" do would be considered Highly respectful in football... my god.
You will never hear a commentator swear
You will never hear a player say "fuck" in a live interview, followed by "deal with it i'm Swedish"
Trash talk on the field is not heard by the entire audience, whereas ingame chat is - i.e. calling someone a faggot for playing Terran as opposed to calling someone a faggot on the field when noone can hear you (and yes there is a major major difference)
Just a few of the things off the top of my head that should not be happening..
And lastly, the most important point is just because all those things happen DOESN'T MAKE IT ACCEPTABLE! Did all of those mentioned above athletes get into shit for their transgressions - absolutely.. Tiger Woods sleeps with prostitutes therefore we can all be lesser human beings? No. He lost sponsors, lost his marriage and tainted the sport of Golf.. Were all those actions deemed "unprofessional" - of course they were - and did they bring the sport into disrepute? Hell Yes.
So i really am unsure as to what you are trying to prove..
Wow so you found some ancient video of Shaq swearing - do you think that video was well received? Do you think it made basketball seem more or less professional?
and.. "Next?" just makes me respect your point of view even less so congratulations to you if you think all of that is "good for esports" and presents a positive image..
Do i need to search the web for youtube videos/news articles/.wav of people getting into shit for being unprofessional? No because i would be banned for flooding..
You raise quite a few good points, but it should also be mentioned that a lot of the organizers (especially of offline events) also lack professionalism and cause unnecessary hardships for players. It's not the players alone who need to step up, its pretty much everyone involved.
you're talking to a community who embraces IdrA for raging at people. Sure some people are professional, but they hardly ever accomplish anything, its much easier to insult people and gain a name for yourself that way, than to put your nose to the grind and actually work hard.
Think about real life, the kid who doesnt say anything in class, but still gets straight As, you dont remember his name, but the jack off who threw a slushy on a teacher, you know his name, his brother and what hallway he threw the slushy in. Any exposure is good exposure.
On January 19 2011 09:05 BetterFasterStronger wrote: Yeah Your right people dont respect each other. Michael Jordan never trash talked. Tiger woods never slept with prostitutes, Tom Brady never walked off the field without shaking the GIants hands after losing the superbowl
THIS IS A COMPETITIVE GAME. People play to win. Deal with the trash talk jesus christ... Have any of you even played a SPORT? What these "Unprofessional players" do would be considered Highly respectful in football... my god.
I think the OP is more about showing up on time, respecting your team, respecting the people that are running events and basically not screwing with all these people that work hard to create opportunities for the player to shine and make money .
All those players you mentioned show up on time for games, practiced with their teammates (when applicable), and trained hard. I don't think the OP gives much of a shit if they're jerkasses during a game or macking ladies.
IdrA is a great example of a guy that works hard and actually appreciates his team and sponsors.
On January 19 2011 09:05 BetterFasterStronger wrote: Yeah Your right people dont respect each other. Michael Jordan never trash talked. Tiger woods never slept with prostitutes, Tom Brady never walked off the field without shaking the GIants hands after losing the superbowl
THIS IS A COMPETITIVE GAME. People play to win. Deal with the trash talk jesus christ... Have any of you even played a SPORT? What these "Unprofessional players" do would be considered Highly respectful in football... my god.
As stated a few times above me, Your points that you made do not make being unprofessional acceptable by any means. Tiger woods almost ruined the PGA, Jordan was never applauded when he, or any one else talked trash (they are often fined or get in trouble) and Tom brady not shaking hands (same with Lebron James) after a loss is often talked about in a very negative nature. No one wants them to be unprofessional like that and there mistakes are not an excuse for eSports players to copy their mistakes.
And to the poster above me, If someone is running an event that has sponsors and any money on the line, it is up to the people in charge to make sure everything happens on time. I do not think any company would want to sponsor a bunch of videogamers Raging at each other, they sponsor the game.
No respectability is EVER coming out of this place as long as it is this blatantly hypocritical.
Think we all saw where the wannabe "we das community make da rules" websites all ended up.
Just the level of ignorant arrogance and blind 'fanboyism' are pretty good indicators this is never going to rise above laughingstock level.
TL.. "professional"... Let me laugh. The casted replays on youtube are a good example that the most hyped >< the best. TLxxx replays are always pathetic cheeses or C&C1-style retarded 1 unit 1a strategies.
TL is just the house of scrub. Anyone taking this shit seriously is doomed to failure.
Don't call professional gamers athletes. They are exactly that...Professional Gamers not athletes. I've been playing team oriented sports all my life and gamers are not athletes.
On January 19 2011 11:12 Probe... wrote: Don't call professional gamers athletes. They are exactly that...Professional Gamers not athletes. I've been playing team oriented sports all my life and gamers are not athletes.
On January 19 2011 11:12 Probe... wrote: Don't call professional gamers athletes. They are exactly that...Professional Gamers not athletes. I've been playing team oriented sports all my life and gamers are not athletes.
thats called an opinion
What's your definition of an athlete?
Athlete is defined as a person trained to compete in sports.
Now, we have to define what sports is..
Sports - An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
These guys play computer GAMES, they are not athletes. What type of physical exertion is involved by professional players? Carpal Tunnel? Eye straining? Raging? Sitting on your ass between 10- 35 minute games?
GTFO...professional gamers are athletes. Blowing my mind with this shit.
On January 19 2011 11:12 Probe... wrote: Don't call professional gamers athletes. They are exactly that...Professional Gamers not athletes. I've been playing team oriented sports all my life and gamers are not athletes.
thats called an opinion
What's your definition of an athlete?
Athlete is defined as a person trained to compete in sports.
Now, we have to define what sports is..
Sports - An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
These guys play computer GAMES, they are not athletes. What type of physical exertion is involved by professional players? Carpal Tunnel? Eye straining? Raging? Sitting on your ass between 10- 35 minute games?
GTFO...professional gamers are athletes. Blowing my mind with this shit.
Thank god for saying what I have had on my mind for a LOOONG time. I agree with your post 100%
In fact I have begun a mission to try and get golf professionals to put weights on their arms. I mean, they even use golf carts now days. Seriously this stuff is what is killing all competition, and the list can go on. PM me so we can discuss this more I've been looking for someone who shares my point of view.
People always talk about promoting esports in the west but then we have so much resistance to professionalism the very next minute. What people don't realize is that these are the same thing. If we want sponsors and we want money and we want the popularity of esports to grow, we need to present a better picture to people on the outside.
Shaq can swear because he is already highly regarded in a game that is seen as legitimate in the minds of the people. If esports wants that same legitimacy, the players will have to overcome a lot of preconceived notions that have existed in people's minds for years. Showing up late, rage, unprofessional attitudes, all these things just confirm widely held stereotypes. If professional video game players act like angry nerds, then that is all the outside world will ever see in esports.
EPT
)
