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Downvoting maps increasing chance of mirror match? - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
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peachsncream
Profile Joined April 2010
United States289 Posts
January 17 2011 22:27 GMT
#41
.... I'm going to pretend there is alot of trolling and that people aren't this ..... whatever. the map is decided after two players match. Vetoes don't do anything except mean you cant play the player you match on those 3-6 maps. Blizzard has said this many times in the past.....
I Micro I Micro - PLZLEAVEDUCK
koolaid1990
Profile Joined September 2010
831 Posts
January 17 2011 22:28 GMT
#42
On January 18 2011 07:26 imareaver3 wrote:
If I recall correctly, Blizz has confirmed that the player you face is chosen before the map is chosen, meaning that map downvotes have no effect on who you face. That agrees with my experience, as well.

It does. Go zerg, take out scrap station, xel naga, and metalpolis/losttemple. You will almost never get a zvz. On the other hand, i took out Jungle Basin, delta, and steppes and i ALWAYS get zvz. Its quite simple, all the other zergs your level are taking out the same maps, and the terrans do NOT take out those maps, so you have less terrans to face.
imareaver3
Profile Joined June 2010
United States906 Posts
January 17 2011 22:32 GMT
#43
On January 18 2011 07:28 koolaid1990 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2011 07:26 imareaver3 wrote:
If I recall correctly, Blizz has confirmed that the player you face is chosen before the map is chosen, meaning that map downvotes have no effect on who you face. That agrees with my experience, as well.

It does. Go zerg, take out scrap station, xel naga, and metalpolis/losttemple. You will almost never get a zvz. On the other hand, i took out Jungle Basin, delta, and steppes and i ALWAYS get zvz. Its quite simple, all the other zergs your level are taking out the same maps, and the terrans do NOT take out those maps, so you have less terrans to face.


That's a general statement; I have Steppes, Delta, and JB knocked out and I never get ZvZ's.
Essentia
Profile Joined July 2010
1150 Posts
January 17 2011 22:48 GMT
#44
its because all other zergs are also thumbing those down, so naturally you re going to get matched up against them more.
Lennon
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom2275 Posts
January 17 2011 23:00 GMT
#45
On January 18 2011 06:03 Razz wrote:
Back in the beta i had a long period only getting TvT. So i removed Kulas Ravine and .. delta?
Boom non TvTs, or at least fewer since all the zergs had KR downvoted.


Delta was around in the beta? I don't remember that... I do, however, remember IZ
fraktoasters
Profile Joined January 2011
United States617 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 23:37:35
January 17 2011 23:25 GMT
#46
On January 18 2011 06:11 Lobo2me wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2011 06:03 Fa1nT wrote:
This is true.

I don't see how people can argue against this.

Every zerg downvotes steppes, delta, and jungle, so obviously the remaining maps will have a higher number of zergs to play.

It means more zerg games will be played on it, which doesn't mean more ZvZ.

I can veto 3 out of 8 maps in the pool. Let's say there are 3 people searching, and each of them are perfect matches for each other.
Player 1 vetoed JB, Steppes and DQ.
Player 2 and 3 vetoed Blistering Sands, Scrap Station and Lost Temple.
Player 1 has 2 out of 8 possible maps if he's up against Player 2 or 3, while 2 and 3 have 5 possible maps they can play on. Does it mean that Player 2 has 2.5 times higher chance of playing against player 3 than he has of playing against Player 1, because there's 5 possible maps instead of 2?

Most likely not. I highly doubt the matchmaker goes "let's make a game on Jungle Basin, let's take the first player that searches for it and pair him up with someone else around the same skill level that also hasn't vetoed it".


This is the correct line of reasoning.

Suppose we have 7 maps in our pool and 3 vetoes per person.
In a 1v1, how many unique maps can be vetoed in total? 6 if the two people all veto different maps. With 6 maps vetoed at the most, there will ALWAYS be at least a single map that is not vetoed by either player. Therefore for every 2 people on ladder, there will always be a map that they agree to play on, so there is no reason why any 2 people cannot be matched up, so your vetoes have nothing to do with who you play.

On January 18 2011 07:24 _anansi wrote:
About a month ago I got sick of some maps and finally downvoted them. Since I run sc2gears all the time I can get some hard data about my matchups:

Downvoted: Steppes, DQ, Jungle. 122 replays:
1. ZvP: 38%
2. ZvT: 34%
3. ZvZ: 29%

No downvotes. 144 replays
1. ZvP: 42%
2. ZvZ: 34%
3. ZvT: 24%

So I got more ZvZ's and less ZvT's. My winrate ZvT went from 52% to 72% though

Full data:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


Although my stats apparently were not even below 50% win on the downvoted maps, I still hate em...


There difference here is 5-6 games. That doesn't mean enough. One daylast week I got 50% ZvP and yesterday I got 4 ZvZ, 3 ZvP and a single ZvT. Do those numbers hold any significance? No. Those numbers aren't conclusive.
RodrigoX
Profile Joined November 2009
United States645 Posts
January 17 2011 23:30 GMT
#47
Yeah I mean its obvious really. If Zergs tend to downvote certain maps, then all Zs are only playing on the maps they downvoted so Zs will more likely meet on those maps since those are the only ones they are playing.
We were all raised on televion that made us believe we'd all be Millionairs, Movie gods, and Rockstars..... But we won't.... We are slowly learning that fact. And we are very, very pissed off.
SoulScream
Profile Joined June 2010
Bulgaria44 Posts
January 17 2011 23:44 GMT
#48
I get ZvP most of the time -.-
Endymion
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States3701 Posts
January 17 2011 23:46 GMT
#49
I think you're right because all zergs downvote steppes LT and jungle, so that must increase mirrors somewhat.
Have you considered the MMO-Champion forum? You are just as irrational and delusional with the right portion of nostalgic populism. By the way: The old Brood War was absolutely unplayable
ALang
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada288 Posts
January 17 2011 23:58 GMT
#50
If I downvote Scrap, Blistering and Xel'Naga I pretty much do not get PvZ ever. I add scrap back to the pool and all I play is PvZ on scrap. I wonder why... lolfreewinforzerg.
Sanski
Profile Joined August 2010
United States57 Posts
January 18 2011 00:01 GMT
#51
i play on xelnaga like 50% of the time.

downvoted blistering, steppes, and delta quad.

still i get a lot of PvPs
Power Overwhelming
_anansi
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands3 Posts
January 18 2011 00:10 GMT
#52
On January 18 2011 08:25 fraktoasters wrote:
There difference here is 5-6 games. That doesn't mean enough. One daylast week I got 50% ZvP and yesterday I got 4 ZvZ, 3 ZvP and a single ZvT. Do those numbers hold any significance? No. Those numbers aren't conclusive.


Yea, I guess you're right that a few games would make a lot of difference in the numbers. But it's the only real data I have before and after downvoting which isn't based on my impressions of which matchups I get.
Silidons
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2813 Posts
January 18 2011 00:13 GMT
#53
i get PvP SOOO much, it's probably 50% of my matchups, and i have scrap station, blistering, and steppes downvoted.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon Bonaparte
arthur
Profile Joined April 2009
United Kingdom488 Posts
January 18 2011 00:56 GMT
#54
Im terran and I downvoted blistering sands and steppes of war...


I never see Zerg on LT, JB or Delta Quadrant for some reason... so the majority of my games are vs T or P...

I do believe downvoting maps is having a huge impact on race MU's...



And someone said most T downvote scrap station?
Why would I down vote scrap station. My natural is very easy to capture there, and the zergs third is very hard to capture. All I have to do is harrass, harrass, harrass and deny his third and I have an easy time there...
youtube.com/f1337
fUddO
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada197 Posts
January 18 2011 01:11 GMT
#55
On January 18 2011 08:25 fraktoasters wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2011 06:11 Lobo2me wrote:
On January 18 2011 06:03 Fa1nT wrote:
This is true.

I don't see how people can argue against this.

Every zerg downvotes steppes, delta, and jungle, so obviously the remaining maps will have a higher number of zergs to play.

It means more zerg games will be played on it, which doesn't mean more ZvZ.

I can veto 3 out of 8 maps in the pool. Let's say there are 3 people searching, and each of them are perfect matches for each other.
Player 1 vetoed JB, Steppes and DQ.
Player 2 and 3 vetoed Blistering Sands, Scrap Station and Lost Temple.
Player 1 has 2 out of 8 possible maps if he's up against Player 2 or 3, while 2 and 3 have 5 possible maps they can play on. Does it mean that Player 2 has 2.5 times higher chance of playing against player 3 than he has of playing against Player 1, because there's 5 possible maps instead of 2?

Most likely not. I highly doubt the matchmaker goes "let's make a game on Jungle Basin, let's take the first player that searches for it and pair him up with someone else around the same skill level that also hasn't vetoed it".


This is the correct line of reasoning.

Suppose we have 7 maps in our pool and 3 vetoes per person.
In a 1v1, how many unique maps can be vetoed in total? 6 if the two people all veto different maps. With 6 maps vetoed at the most, there will ALWAYS be at least a single map that is not vetoed by either player. Therefore for every 2 people on ladder, there will always be a map that they agree to play on, so there is no reason why any 2 people cannot be matched up, so your vetoes have nothing to do with who you play.

Show nested quote +
On January 18 2011 07:24 _anansi wrote:
About a month ago I got sick of some maps and finally downvoted them. Since I run sc2gears all the time I can get some hard data about my matchups:

Downvoted: Steppes, DQ, Jungle. 122 replays:
1. ZvP: 38%
2. ZvT: 34%
3. ZvZ: 29%

No downvotes. 144 replays
1. ZvP: 42%
2. ZvZ: 34%
3. ZvT: 24%

So I got more ZvZ's and less ZvT's. My winrate ZvT went from 52% to 72% though

Full data:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


Although my stats apparently were not even below 50% win on the downvoted maps, I still hate em...


There difference here is 5-6 games. That doesn't mean enough. One daylast week I got 50% ZvP and yesterday I got 4 ZvZ, 3 ZvP and a single ZvT. Do those numbers hold any significance? No. Those numbers aren't conclusive.

Best post in this thread. Honestly, this begs the question: Which maps are played on the most on ladder? My guess would be Zel'Naga and Metal.
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
January 18 2011 01:15 GMT
#56
I don't think it's about mirror matchups, but Zerg in general. My last 10 games were all PvZ
Dimagus
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1004 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-18 01:20:25
January 18 2011 01:17 GMT
#57
You would have to not only analyze the frequency of races, but also which maps come up as well.

Could there also be a mechanic that tries to balance out what maps are played on over a given statistical period? Whether it's on a per-player basis or system-wide on the server, if it makes sure players are playing an equivalent number of games on each map then that can skew the percentages of racial matches as well.

Say there's 9 maps, and conveniently there are no overlapping downvotes by race. You are Terran
3 maps you would never play on (0%/0%/0%))
3 maps you would only ever play Terran and Zerg on (50%/50%/0%)
3 maps you would only ever play Terran and Protoss on (50%/0%/50%)
Overall you would have a balanced map selection, but a 50%/25%/25% racial matchup ratio if there were an equal number of players for each race.

Now imagine if there's a mechanic that makes sure every map gets an equal number of games on it, but there's an overlap between two races downvotes. Since the third race is the only one that allows playing on those 1-3 maps, and those maps are below quota, it will force the third race to play mirror matchups on those maps to make up the difference.

It may not choose the exact map you play on until it finds an opponent, but it may be more inclined to find opponents based on what isn't vetoed.
ggrrg
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Bulgaria2716 Posts
January 18 2011 02:07 GMT
#58
Downvoting might cause some change in your matchup frequency, but I don't think that it would be of any major significance. However, you should probably downvote blistering instead of any of the maps you currently have, since I'm pretty sure that basically every protoss (and probably terran) has done so already.
Skank
Profile Joined October 2010
United States329 Posts
January 18 2011 03:56 GMT
#59
For the record, I used just had a streak where I played TvT mirrors for like 75% of my games. After losing to a Protoss for the 90000000000th time at fucking blistering sands, I downvoted Sands, making it my first downvote. Haven't played nearly as many TvT's since.

This seems to defy the logic of the OP, which is why I think it's Blizzard's bugginess.
"To be honest, to play protoss is ridiculously simple" -NesTea
shabinka
Profile Joined October 2008
United States469 Posts
January 18 2011 04:03 GMT
#60
Think of it this way. If you downvoted that map, then other zergs downvoted that map, meaning you guys share the same map pool. Now T and P downvote 3 other maps, meaning you guys can't play on 6 of the maps in the map pool. The chances of you playing on the maps that you and the other zerg have in common is higher than the others.
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