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Asta
Germany3491 Posts
Here are the results in one picture, ordered chronologically: ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/UsqiI.png) Starcraft 2 games are both significantly shorter than BW games and their game length also has a much lower variation, which might be a nice thing for tv channel's programming staff (oh, wait, there are no SC2 tv channels) but sucks for me. I'd loved to have statistics for pro gaming matches, but since there are never replays, I didn't know a comfortable way to get data. | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
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Whiladan
United States463 Posts
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
Definitely not as convenient as replays though.. edit - how about using the www.sc2rep.com database of replays? Use those for further sc2 data. And then maybe use the ygosu replays for bw data. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
 True story. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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HollowLord
United States3862 Posts
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lyAsakura
United States1414 Posts
On January 16 2011 04:59 Holgerius wrote: I remember once when I was watching Sc2 and BW simultaniously, and the entire Bo7 (4-0, might've been Jinro vs MC) in SC2 took roughtly as long time as one single TvT in BW. True story. Sometimes happens in BW too when it was bo5 format. + Show Spoiler + holy shit that guy has 3.3k posts in 6 months. | ||
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InvalidID
United States1050 Posts
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Kaasflipje
Netherlands198 Posts
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Asta
Germany3491 Posts
On January 16 2011 04:55 EtherealDeath wrote: I don't know if there is a convenient way to get the length of a flash video from the file, but if so, perhaps you could parse the links in TLPD, and then assume that because there is some padding in some games (maybe some intro or something, which hopefully over the long run is mostly averaged out), the mean might be say, 30 seconds lower than it looks, although the variance I suppose would be harder to examine. Maybe you could then individually look at the longer games and ensure there is not a lot of padding? Definitely not as convenient as replays though.. edit - how about using the www.sc2rep.com database of replays? Use those for further sc2 data. And then maybe use the ygosu replays for bw data. Yeah, I didn't want to use video file length's because I thought that the overhead would depend on what event the videos were from. But also I don't know how to automatically retrieve the links from TLPD and I suspect that you need to load the whole video to find out the length, unless the host has already done that and provides the time somehow. Maybe somebody with more knowledge and more time could do that if they are interested. I consciously chose to pick specific events for the analysis because it makes sure that the players are of high caliber and more importantly of similar skill level. Random games might either involve short games when one player is too strong or very long games because those are always favored by replay collectors. And to the guy who claimed the sample size was too small: I don't think so. | ||
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Tippany
United States765 Posts
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blackbrrd
Norway477 Posts
GSL4's Code S is probably the first properly seeded tournament so far in SC2 history and already we are seeing longer and better games. In the above data, not a single SC2 game was over 30 minutes, while we have already had two TvT that are longer than that in GSL4. + Show Spoiler + Slayers_Boxer vs oGsHyperdub that lasted 32:38 and LiquidJinro vs oGsEnsnare lasted 50:27, and it only ended because oGsEnsnare had mined out his half of the map. I believe about 50 minutes is the maximum length SC2 will currently have for games, due to map size and mining out. | ||
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Trap
United States395 Posts
On January 16 2011 04:59 Holgerius wrote: I remember once when I was watching Sc2 and BW simultaniously, and the entire Bo7 (4-0, might've been Jinro vs MC) in SC2 took roughtly as long time as one single TvT in BW. True story. Not a very fair comparison... empires rise and fall during a Canata TvT. | ||
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gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
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DuckS
United States845 Posts
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On January 16 2011 05:26 Trap wrote: Not a very fair comparison... empires rise and fall during a Canata TvT. Ya, it wasn't a serious argument regarding the issue. I just found it sort of amusing. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
By the way, early SCBW had mostly 1base allins and cheese as well and the skill levels were so lopsided that the players beat each other very quickly. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On January 16 2011 05:43 Shikyo wrote: You're not using the in-game time for SC2, right? It's different. By the way, early SCBW had mostly 1base allins and cheese as well and the skill levels were so lopsided that the players beat each other very quickly. The importance of macro is already well-known now though, through BW. Sc2 shouldn't need to go through the same evolution. | ||
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mmdmmd
722 Posts
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parn
France296 Posts
Maybe people are right here, we don't have enough data and play time since SC2 came out, games could be shorter in the future  | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
While I do think the maps are kinda bad(but not terrible as many people seem to think) we should all remembers that programers are human too, and thus they take time to learn a game. | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
On January 16 2011 05:49 Holgerius wrote: The importance of macro is already well-known now though, through BW. Sc2 shouldn't need to go through the same evolution. Disagree. 1-basing and all-ins are strong not because people don't "know" about macro games, but because it takes people time to learn to beat all the various 1-basing styles. You only get past that once players can comfortably beat those, at least the majority of the time. Otherwise people will use rushes and win with them, whether or not players know about macro. | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
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Odoakar
Croatia1837 Posts
To sum it up quickly: GSL 2 164 games played, average duration 11:12 minutes GSL 3 162 games played, average duration 11:23 minutes GSL 4 64 games played, average duration 12:08 minutes. | ||
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shabinka
United States469 Posts
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Phanekim
United States777 Posts
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
Team Areola Nipple League of 2005, WCG 2006 and TSL#2 2010 for Broodwar and Blizzcon2010 and the Kaspersky Invitational for Starcraft 2 Not really representative, why not use GSL and Starleagues? By the way Team Areola Nipple League wtf? | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On January 16 2011 06:02 Treadmill wrote: Disagree. 1-basing and all-ins are strong not because people don't "know" about macro games, but because it takes people time to learn to beat all the various 1-basing styles. You only get past that once players can comfortably beat those, at least the majority of the time. Otherwise people will use rushes and win with them, whether or not players know about macro. Disagree, in 2004, timings were still not known, but macro was. BTW there are a number of early very long 1-basing TvZ. For instance I have a 2001 Boxer vs Yellow game, were Boxer expands only when he runs out of minerals, 30min. Wich shows : 2 games have a different dynamics, and in 2001 people just did not seem to want to expand (in TvZ at least). But hey, don't worry, your game is perfect, it will come with time. | ||
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Arxyn
Canada17 Posts
It seems like the early game is accelerated in SC2 which is a good thing, so even if the games are shorter they might be in similiar lenghts as far as entertainment goes? Anyways, this is always just a feeling I have, I could be 100% wrong. | ||
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legaton
France1763 Posts
On January 16 2011 06:17 Odoakar wrote: I have the game times for every match in GSL 2, 3 and 4 in Excel sheets if you want them;) To sum it up quickly: GSL 2 164 games played, average duration 11:12 minutes GSL 3 162 games played, average duration 11:23 minutes GSL 4 64 games played, average duration 12:08 minutes. Could you give us the average duration for GSL4 games without Jinro's and Idra's matches? | ||
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Garrl
Scotland1979 Posts
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Odoakar
Croatia1837 Posts
On January 16 2011 06:31 legaton wrote: Could you give us the average duration for GSL4 games without Jinro's and Idra's matches? Sure, if I don't take into consideration any of their matches, the average duration is 11:10 for 53 matches played. | ||
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god deezy yo
49 Posts
On January 16 2011 06:37 Odoakar wrote: Sure, if I don't take into consideration any of their matches, the average duration is 11:10 for 53 matches played. is that game time or real time? | ||
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Odoakar
Croatia1837 Posts
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Squirrel
United States1102 Posts
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FarbrorAbavna
Sweden4856 Posts
I do welcome with open arms sampling using more recent tournies both from bw and sc2. Now that would be discussion worthy. | ||
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G3nXsiS
United States656 Posts
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parn
France296 Posts
On January 16 2011 07:04 G3nXsiS wrote: Well obviously since the game is young games tend to be shorter. Could you develop that concept? | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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