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Patch 1.2.0 on PTR - Page 147

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 145 146 147 148 149 158 Next
junemermaid
Profile Joined September 2006
United States981 Posts
December 07 2010 19:19 GMT
#2921
On December 08 2010 02:09 HalfAmazing wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but you can't wall below ramp as TERRAN anymore. You absolutely needed a double wall-in to hold zerg all-ins (1 or 2 base) while teching. This is fucking pathetic. Blizzard is fucking up so hard.



What in tarnations are you talking about?
the UMP says YER OUT
HalfAmazing
Profile Joined May 2008
Netherlands402 Posts
December 07 2010 20:05 GMT
#2922
On December 08 2010 03:45 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:
It sounds like you wall too much. Spend the money on units instead of buildings you will lose and you can still tech up. A full wall isn't even strictly necessary to stop most rushes. Much of the reasons pros do it is to deny scouts. Terran will still have no trouble making an easy wall with these changes.


Thank you for your unsolicited advice. :-) The changes are actually irrelevant since you can still do a double wall-in (with a depot/rax below ramp). I'll let you have your opinion while I keep playing against the best in the world (and winning) in ladder and customs on both EU and US. :-)
You can figure out the other half.
HalfAmazing
Profile Joined May 2008
Netherlands402 Posts
December 07 2010 20:06 GMT
#2923
On December 08 2010 04:19 junemermaid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2010 02:09 HalfAmazing wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but you can't wall below ramp as TERRAN anymore. You absolutely needed a double wall-in to hold zerg all-ins (1 or 2 base) while teching. This is fucking pathetic. Blizzard is fucking up so hard.



What in tarnations are you talking about?


Strategy so advanced the value of it hasn't occured to you yet. :-)
You can figure out the other half.
CherubDown
Profile Joined August 2010
United States171 Posts
December 07 2010 20:36 GMT
#2924
In case anyone is interested, there's a pretty good article written here on the PTR changes with respect to the map editor.
PaPoolee
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Netherlands660 Posts
December 07 2010 20:58 GMT
#2925
I don't understand the 2 pylon wall removed thing, does that mean we can wall off the ramp with 1 pylon now?
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
December 07 2010 21:00 GMT
#2926
On December 08 2010 05:58 PaPoolee wrote:
I don't understand the 2 pylon wall removed thing, does that mean we can wall off the ramp with 1 pylon now?

uh no. it was deemed that walling of a ramp with 2 pylons was a little op, so its either been adjusted to a 3 pylon wall or not blocakble at all. (most likely the former)
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
Euriti
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark72 Posts
December 07 2010 21:11 GMT
#2927
On December 07 2010 15:58 spacemonkeyy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 15:57 Drazlok wrote:

I don't think they are quite as fast but I'm not sure. Even if it is say they hit your workers and then they back out and fly to your expo. Then you go to your expo and they fly back to your main. So you split your hydras and then he goes hunting overlords. So you pull them back, if you haven't already. Your not killing many mutas, hes holding you in your base and has total map control. All the while getting tons more mutas.


Welcome to T & P world.


1) Zerg has the worst static air defense
2) Zerg does not have any core tier 1 combat unit that shoot up (Mass queens is not a solution)
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
December 07 2010 21:12 GMT
#2928
Mass queens is not a solution

It's a great solution, because they have 250 HP (175 + healing)
Rarak
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia631 Posts
December 07 2010 23:34 GMT
#2929
On December 04 2010 17:40 Mojeca wrote:
I'm quite surprised at the lack of discussion about the bottom of the ramp. No longer can 2 pylons block it off, this is a pretty big change. I'm all in favor of it, but still. Where is nation of QQ I have come to expect from this site?


Toss don't whine nearly as much as other players..

Maybe due to the nerf beatdown all beta we kind of expect it?
Rflcrx
Profile Joined October 2010
503 Posts
December 07 2010 23:36 GMT
#2930
Ah, the toss and terran QQ..same old, same old, yet so refreshing
Lunit
Profile Joined July 2010
United States183 Posts
December 07 2010 23:39 GMT
#2931
oh wow, so this is what blizzards been working on
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
December 07 2010 23:44 GMT
#2932
On December 08 2010 08:34 Rarak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2010 17:40 Mojeca wrote:
I'm quite surprised at the lack of discussion about the bottom of the ramp. No longer can 2 pylons block it off, this is a pretty big change. I'm all in favor of it, but still. Where is nation of QQ I have come to expect from this site?


Toss don't whine nearly as much as other players..

Maybe due to the nerf beatdown all beta we kind of expect it?

Protoss was traditionally less successful than Zerg and Terran in Broodwar. I imagine that's lowered Protoss expectations.
My strategy is to fork people.
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 23:58:41
December 07 2010 23:58 GMT
#2933
On December 07 2010 16:54 theqat wrote:
Hydras are not really that close to Muta movespeed. Mutas are 3.75 and on-creep Hydras are 2.85-2.95 or so (not totally sure)..


Hydras are 3+ on creep. They are around 3.2 (aka fast as hell) I believe.
http://www.justin.tv/link0 - Gosu.Linko - http://www.facebook.com/link0
Entropic
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2837 Posts
December 08 2010 00:10 GMT
#2934
On December 08 2010 08:44 Severedevil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2010 08:34 Rarak wrote:
On December 04 2010 17:40 Mojeca wrote:
I'm quite surprised at the lack of discussion about the bottom of the ramp. No longer can 2 pylons block it off, this is a pretty big change. I'm all in favor of it, but still. Where is nation of QQ I have come to expect from this site?


Toss don't whine nearly as much as other players..

Maybe due to the nerf beatdown all beta we kind of expect it?

Protoss was traditionally less successful than Zerg and Terran in Broodwar. I imagine that's lowered Protoss expectations.


But I would wager that the majority of players did not follow the BW pro-scene so I don't think the notion of 'lowered expectations' stems from that.
Toxigen
Profile Joined July 2010
United States390 Posts
December 08 2010 00:37 GMT
#2935
On December 07 2010 15:58 spacemonkeyy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 15:57 Drazlok wrote:

I don't think they are quite as fast but I'm not sure. Even if it is say they hit your workers and then they back out and fly to your expo. Then you go to your expo and they fly back to your main. So you split your hydras and then he goes hunting overlords. So you pull them back, if you haven't already. Your not killing many mutas, hes holding you in your base and has total map control. All the while getting tons more mutas.


Welcome to T & P world.

Except... hydralisks are only fast on creep. Marines can stim anywhere and get the movement speed increase. Blink stalkers can blink anywhere too. Even still, both Terran and Protoss have other options that make marines and stalkers that much more effective.

Terrans have other options for dealing with mutalisks (thors, ravens for PDD, turrets with repair). Protoss already had blink stalkers and cannons, and phoenix were an amazing response to mutalisks if you catch him going spire (or just open stargate). Now phoenix are even better.

Zerg had either infestors & hydralisks or going mutalisks yourself. If this change had gone through, it would have made the matchup retardedly predictable -- you see a spire, you gotta go spire too. If you catch it late, well, I hope you were building queens, because the best you can manage at this point is losing map control and maybe only a few drones/overlords.
Toxigen
Profile Joined July 2010
United States390 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-08 00:54:49
December 08 2010 00:52 GMT
#2936
On December 08 2010 08:58 link0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 16:54 theqat wrote:
Hydras are not really that close to Muta movespeed. Mutas are 3.75 and on-creep Hydras are 2.85-2.95 or so (not totally sure)..


Hydras are 3+ on creep. They are around 3.2 (aka fast as hell) I believe.

Isn't that all relative, though? Here's a list of Zerg ground units from fastest to slowest, with upgrades, on creep:

Zergling
Roach
Ultralisk -- Baneling
Hydralisk
Infestor (the hydralisk is BARELY faster, by .125, and the hydra is slower off-creep)
Drone (hydra is slower off-creep)
Queen

Basically, any Zerg ground unit that fights and doesn't have an energy bar is faster than the hydralisk by almost .5. They're the slowest fighting unit in the Zerg arsenal, and in most cases, by a large margin. And that's ON creep.

To put the off-creep speed of hydralisks in perspective, a spine crawler on creep is noticeably faster than a hydralisk off creep.

I'm still of the opinion that a hydralisk is a weak unit except against Protoss. If gateway units weren't so laughably bad against hydralisks, I'd say buffing hydras wouldn't be completely out of order. As it is, it's simply a very situational unit (AA, primarily, and it's not even that good at that).

EDIT: My point is that it's not really a trade-off to say that hydralisks' slow speed off creep is at the cost of its speed on creep when all Zerg ground units are faster in both regards.
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
December 08 2010 00:56 GMT
#2937
On December 08 2010 06:12 Existor wrote:
Show nested quote +
Mass queens is not a solution

It's a great solution, because they have 250 HP (175 + healing)


maybe if they came from larvae instead of popping out of the hatchery, otherwise, not really.
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
Jumbled
Profile Joined September 2010
1543 Posts
December 08 2010 01:01 GMT
#2938
On December 08 2010 06:11 Euriti wrote:

1) Zerg has the worst static air defense
2) Zerg does not have any core tier 1 combat unit that shoot up (Mass queens is not a solution)

That's completely wrong. Protoss static air defence does less dps, has less health and armour, costs more, and cannot be relocated. Getting extra queens is an excellent response to early air, as top players have repeatedly demonstrated.
suejak
Profile Joined March 2010
Japan545 Posts
December 08 2010 01:06 GMT
#2939
On December 08 2010 09:52 Toxigen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2010 08:58 link0 wrote:
On December 07 2010 16:54 theqat wrote:
Hydras are not really that close to Muta movespeed. Mutas are 3.75 and on-creep Hydras are 2.85-2.95 or so (not totally sure)..


Hydras are 3+ on creep. They are around 3.2 (aka fast as hell) I believe.

Isn't that all relative, though? Here's a list of Zerg ground units from fastest to slowest, with upgrades, on creep:

Zergling
Roach
Ultralisk -- Baneling
Hydralisk
Infestor (the hydralisk is BARELY faster, by .125, and the hydra is slower off-creep)
Drone (hydra is slower off-creep)
Queen

Basically, any Zerg ground unit that fights and doesn't have an energy bar is faster than the hydralisk by almost .5. They're the slowest fighting unit in the Zerg arsenal, and in most cases, by a large margin. And that's ON creep.

To put the off-creep speed of hydralisks in perspective, a spine crawler on creep is noticeably faster than a hydralisk off creep.

I'm still of the opinion that a hydralisk is a weak unit except against Protoss. If gateway units weren't so laughably bad against hydralisks, I'd say buffing hydras wouldn't be completely out of order. As it is, it's simply a very situational unit (AA, primarily, and it's not even that good at that).

EDIT: My point is that it's not really a trade-off to say that hydralisks' slow speed off creep is at the cost of its speed on creep when all Zerg ground units are faster in both regards.

Yo man, compare zerg units to terran or protoss units. Zerg units are FAST, and on-creep hydras are no exception.

If hydras were fast off-creep too, they'd be insane.
Are you human?
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
December 08 2010 01:13 GMT
#2940
On December 08 2010 10:06 suejak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2010 09:52 Toxigen wrote:
On December 08 2010 08:58 link0 wrote:
On December 07 2010 16:54 theqat wrote:
Hydras are not really that close to Muta movespeed. Mutas are 3.75 and on-creep Hydras are 2.85-2.95 or so (not totally sure)..


Hydras are 3+ on creep. They are around 3.2 (aka fast as hell) I believe.

Isn't that all relative, though? Here's a list of Zerg ground units from fastest to slowest, with upgrades, on creep:

Zergling
Roach
Ultralisk -- Baneling
Hydralisk
Infestor (the hydralisk is BARELY faster, by .125, and the hydra is slower off-creep)
Drone (hydra is slower off-creep)
Queen

Basically, any Zerg ground unit that fights and doesn't have an energy bar is faster than the hydralisk by almost .5. They're the slowest fighting unit in the Zerg arsenal, and in most cases, by a large margin. And that's ON creep.

To put the off-creep speed of hydralisks in perspective, a spine crawler on creep is noticeably faster than a hydralisk off creep.

I'm still of the opinion that a hydralisk is a weak unit except against Protoss. If gateway units weren't so laughably bad against hydralisks, I'd say buffing hydras wouldn't be completely out of order. As it is, it's simply a very situational unit (AA, primarily, and it's not even that good at that).

EDIT: My point is that it's not really a trade-off to say that hydralisks' slow speed off creep is at the cost of its speed on creep when all Zerg ground units are faster in both regards.

Yo man, compare zerg units to terran or protoss units. Zerg units are FAST, and on-creep hydras are no exception.

If hydras were fast off-creep too, they'd be insane.


Almost as good as a marine.
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