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On January 26 2011 06:42 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 06:34 travis wrote:
I think there are fundamental differences in the way men and women's brains work that play a large role in this. I mean, there are lots of women chess players. But the very top female chess player, the absolute best top prodigy female chess player. Where does she rank compared to men?
Chess is just one example.
Now I am not saying that women might be more represented at high levels if there were more women competing in things like chess or starcraft, but I think it should be clear that men have faculties that women rarely can match when it comes to these things. I would agree with you if it came to something like lifting weights, but nothing is the brain is really all that clear. When it comes to mental challenges, I have never come across a problem and woman couldn't do but a man could. Think about it, in grade school boys and girls are treated virtually the same and their worlds allow for very selective influences to engender them. They are capable of the same things, but as time progresses, they are engendered and split, with different values and goals imbued upon them by society.
It's pretty clear even from grade school that boys have different strong suits than girls...
You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start.
They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start.
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On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:
You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start.
They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start.
Right and this of course has everything to do with genetics and nothing at all to do with the way parents raise their children and set their expectations, am i right?
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On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 06:42 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On January 26 2011 06:34 travis wrote:
I think there are fundamental differences in the way men and women's brains work that play a large role in this. I mean, there are lots of women chess players. But the very top female chess player, the absolute best top prodigy female chess player. Where does she rank compared to men?
Chess is just one example.
Now I am not saying that women might be more represented at high levels if there were more women competing in things like chess or starcraft, but I think it should be clear that men have faculties that women rarely can match when it comes to these things. I would agree with you if it came to something like lifting weights, but nothing is the brain is really all that clear. When it comes to mental challenges, I have never come across a problem and woman couldn't do but a man could. Think about it, in grade school boys and girls are treated virtually the same and their worlds allow for very selective influences to engender them. They are capable of the same things, but as time progresses, they are engendered and split, with different values and goals imbued upon them by society. It's pretty clear even from grade school that boys have different strong suits than girls... You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start. They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start.
Historically that is correct, boys trended higher grade wise in the mathematics and sciences. But is that biological or socially driven? How often do you see women actively being encouraged to pursue math or the sciences over english or history? There is no known biological reason for men obtaining a higher average or benefit. I know from my experience women made up the majority of my Calc courses in High School. Times, they are a changing.
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On January 26 2011 06:56 Jago wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:
You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start.
They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start. Right and this of course has everything to do with genetics and nothing at all to do with the way parents raise their children and set their expectations, am i right?
You're sarcastic but yes, that is correct. Most parents aren't teaching their boys math between ages 2 and 5 while ignoring their girls.
Plenty of people would love to be white knights but this is reality and men and women are not the same.
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I think it partially has to do with image. When you think of esports/gaming in gereral you dont picture a female, you more likely picture a male playing. This comes down to so many years of males being in this position. You look at knitting for example and what do you picutre? A female, not male, and its because thats what seems 'correct' to you. If women had participated from the beginning of gaming in general in an equal amount like men did, im sure they outcome of male to female ratios in the gaming scene would be much different and we would see many more pro-female gamers.
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On January 26 2011 06:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:On January 26 2011 06:42 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On January 26 2011 06:34 travis wrote:
I think there are fundamental differences in the way men and women's brains work that play a large role in this. I mean, there are lots of women chess players. But the very top female chess player, the absolute best top prodigy female chess player. Where does she rank compared to men?
Chess is just one example.
Now I am not saying that women might be more represented at high levels if there were more women competing in things like chess or starcraft, but I think it should be clear that men have faculties that women rarely can match when it comes to these things. I would agree with you if it came to something like lifting weights, but nothing is the brain is really all that clear. When it comes to mental challenges, I have never come across a problem and woman couldn't do but a man could. Think about it, in grade school boys and girls are treated virtually the same and their worlds allow for very selective influences to engender them. They are capable of the same things, but as time progresses, they are engendered and split, with different values and goals imbued upon them by society. It's pretty clear even from grade school that boys have different strong suits than girls... You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start. They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start. Historically that is correct, boys trended higher grade wise in the mathematics and sciences. But is that biological or socially driven? How often do you see women actively being encouraged to pursue math or the sciences over english or history? There is no known biological reason for men obtaining a higher average or benefit. I know from my experience women made up the majority of my Calc courses in High School. Times, they are a changing.
women are perfectly capable of learning and perfectly capable of hard work. but hard work alone will not make you a top chess (or starcraft) player
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On January 26 2011 06:58 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 06:56 Jago wrote:On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:
You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start.
They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start. Right and this of course has everything to do with genetics and nothing at all to do with the way parents raise their children and set their expectations, am i right? You're sarcastic but yes, that is correct. Most parents aren't teaching their boys math between ages 2 and 5 while ignoring their girls.
Please point to studies proving that among children aged 2 to 5, boys are more tilted towards performing better at math given the same environment for both.
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On January 26 2011 07:03 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 06:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:On January 26 2011 06:42 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On January 26 2011 06:34 travis wrote:
I think there are fundamental differences in the way men and women's brains work that play a large role in this. I mean, there are lots of women chess players. But the very top female chess player, the absolute best top prodigy female chess player. Where does she rank compared to men?
Chess is just one example.
Now I am not saying that women might be more represented at high levels if there were more women competing in things like chess or starcraft, but I think it should be clear that men have faculties that women rarely can match when it comes to these things. I would agree with you if it came to something like lifting weights, but nothing is the brain is really all that clear. When it comes to mental challenges, I have never come across a problem and woman couldn't do but a man could. Think about it, in grade school boys and girls are treated virtually the same and their worlds allow for very selective influences to engender them. They are capable of the same things, but as time progresses, they are engendered and split, with different values and goals imbued upon them by society. It's pretty clear even from grade school that boys have different strong suits than girls... You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start. They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start. Historically that is correct, boys trended higher grade wise in the mathematics and sciences. But is that biological or socially driven? How often do you see women actively being encouraged to pursue math or the sciences over english or history? There is no known biological reason for men obtaining a higher average or benefit. I know from my experience women made up the majority of my Calc courses in High School. Times, they are a changing. women are perfectly capable of learning and perfectly capable of hard work. but hard work alone will not make you a top chess (or starcraft) player
Judit Polgár would own you like did she Kasparov
yes, a women is more intelligent than you
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On January 26 2011 07:06 Jago wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 06:58 travis wrote:On January 26 2011 06:56 Jago wrote:On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:
You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start.
They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start. Right and this of course has everything to do with genetics and nothing at all to do with the way parents raise their children and set their expectations, am i right? You're sarcastic but yes, that is correct. Most parents aren't teaching their boys math between ages 2 and 5 while ignoring their girls. Please point to studies proving that among children aged 2 to 5, boys are more tilted towards performing better at math given the same environment for both.
really? you're really going to make me look for studies, which may or may not have done, on something that is already generally accepted as truth and has been seen time and time again? you're actually claiming it isn't the case that boys who are initially being taught math, in general, perform better than girls?
fine, i'll see if I can find anything
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On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 06:42 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On January 26 2011 06:34 travis wrote:
I think there are fundamental differences in the way men and women's brains work that play a large role in this. I mean, there are lots of women chess players. But the very top female chess player, the absolute best top prodigy female chess player. Where does she rank compared to men?
Chess is just one example.
Now I am not saying that women might be more represented at high levels if there were more women competing in things like chess or starcraft, but I think it should be clear that men have faculties that women rarely can match when it comes to these things. I would agree with you if it came to something like lifting weights, but nothing is the brain is really all that clear. When it comes to mental challenges, I have never come across a problem and woman couldn't do but a man could. Think about it, in grade school boys and girls are treated virtually the same and their worlds allow for very selective influences to engender them. They are capable of the same things, but as time progresses, they are engendered and split, with different values and goals imbued upon them by society. It's pretty clear even from grade school that boys have different strong suits than girls... You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start. They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start.
define start. i've heard of these stats showing boys getting higher marks in school at math. but when are they actually comparing these marks? kindergarten? early grade school? early high school? that has a huge impact on what we're trying to say here. also, if they can even do a questionnaire with each student regarding the activities they do at home, and correspond the responses with marks, i wonder if such a sex difference will be so obvious once controlled.
boys are more competitive in sports and games, okay... and you're saying there isn't a major societal factor in that? i find it a bit farfetched that we were biologically coded to be more "competitive" than females in something as arbitrary as sports or games when these were non factors in our evolutionary history.
On January 26 2011 07:11 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 07:06 Jago wrote:On January 26 2011 06:58 travis wrote:On January 26 2011 06:56 Jago wrote:On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:
You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start.
They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start. Right and this of course has everything to do with genetics and nothing at all to do with the way parents raise their children and set their expectations, am i right? You're sarcastic but yes, that is correct. Most parents aren't teaching their boys math between ages 2 and 5 while ignoring their girls. Please point to studies proving that among children aged 2 to 5, boys are more tilted towards performing better at math given the same environment for both. really? you're really going to make me look for studies, which may or may not have done, on something that is already generally accepted as truth and has been seen time and time again? you're actually claiming it isn't the case that boys who are initially being taught math, in general, perform better than girls? fine, i'll see if I can find anything
EDIT: added this in so i don't double post
well.. accepted as truth doesn't exactly mean anything does it. hardly justifies the many posts here claiming men are biologically at an advantage to women. there's really no way to test this "innate" hypothesis without some ridiculous experiment that controls for so many factors that can skew the development of cognitive functions in the brain.
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On January 26 2011 07:10 IamaGrapeMan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 07:03 travis wrote:On January 26 2011 06:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:On January 26 2011 06:42 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On January 26 2011 06:34 travis wrote:
I think there are fundamental differences in the way men and women's brains work that play a large role in this. I mean, there are lots of women chess players. But the very top female chess player, the absolute best top prodigy female chess player. Where does she rank compared to men?
Chess is just one example.
Now I am not saying that women might be more represented at high levels if there were more women competing in things like chess or starcraft, but I think it should be clear that men have faculties that women rarely can match when it comes to these things. I would agree with you if it came to something like lifting weights, but nothing is the brain is really all that clear. When it comes to mental challenges, I have never come across a problem and woman couldn't do but a man could. Think about it, in grade school boys and girls are treated virtually the same and their worlds allow for very selective influences to engender them. They are capable of the same things, but as time progresses, they are engendered and split, with different values and goals imbued upon them by society. It's pretty clear even from grade school that boys have different strong suits than girls... You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start. They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start. Historically that is correct, boys trended higher grade wise in the mathematics and sciences. But is that biological or socially driven? How often do you see women actively being encouraged to pursue math or the sciences over english or history? There is no known biological reason for men obtaining a higher average or benefit. I know from my experience women made up the majority of my Calc courses in High School. Times, they are a changing. women are perfectly capable of learning and perfectly capable of hard work. but hard work alone will not make you a top chess (or starcraft) player Judit Polgár would own you like did she Kasparov yes, a women is more intelligent than you
and SHE HELPS PROVE MY POINT
she is the most exceptional female chess player of all time, by far the greatest.... and what was her top rating in the world compared to men? how many men were above her? you just made no point whatsoever u only helped what I was saying. and I love how u turn this into some issue of sexism like im offended that there are hundreds of thousands or even millions of women more intelligent than I am.
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On January 26 2011 07:11 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 07:06 Jago wrote:On January 26 2011 06:58 travis wrote:On January 26 2011 06:56 Jago wrote:On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:
You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start.
They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start. Right and this of course has everything to do with genetics and nothing at all to do with the way parents raise their children and set their expectations, am i right? You're sarcastic but yes, that is correct. Most parents aren't teaching their boys math between ages 2 and 5 while ignoring their girls. Please point to studies proving that among children aged 2 to 5, boys are more tilted towards performing better at math given the same environment for both. really? you're really going to make me look for studies, which may or may not have done, on something that is already generally accepted as truth and has been seen time and time again? you're actually claiming it isn't the case that boys who are initially being taught math, in general, perform better than girls? fine, i'll see if I can find anything
Sorry Travis, but I just googled "boys better than girls at math" and google came back exploding with article after article about how researchers have proven this to be a myth.
The studies essentially show that countries that have gender equality(say, Sweden), show no difference in math abilities. In countries that do not have gender equality(Turkey), boys had higher math scores. Some of the articles I looked at were looking at 15 year olds and some going younger. The consensus seems to be that nothing biological makes girls have weaker math abilities. I highly doubt that girls 2-5 are worse at math than boys 2-5. You will have to cite at least SOME evidence before going on about how it is "already generally accepted as truth".
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On January 26 2011 06:57 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:On January 26 2011 06:42 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On January 26 2011 06:34 travis wrote:
I think there are fundamental differences in the way men and women's brains work that play a large role in this. I mean, there are lots of women chess players. But the very top female chess player, the absolute best top prodigy female chess player. Where does she rank compared to men?
Chess is just one example.
Now I am not saying that women might be more represented at high levels if there were more women competing in things like chess or starcraft, but I think it should be clear that men have faculties that women rarely can match when it comes to these things. I would agree with you if it came to something like lifting weights, but nothing is the brain is really all that clear. When it comes to mental challenges, I have never come across a problem and woman couldn't do but a man could. Think about it, in grade school boys and girls are treated virtually the same and their worlds allow for very selective influences to engender them. They are capable of the same things, but as time progresses, they are engendered and split, with different values and goals imbued upon them by society. It's pretty clear even from grade school that boys have different strong suits than girls... You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start. They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start. Historically that is correct, boys trended higher grade wise in the mathematics and sciences. But is that biological or socially driven? How often do you see women actively being encouraged to pursue math or the sciences over english or history? There is no known biological reason for men obtaining a higher average or benefit. I know from my experience women made up the majority of my Calc courses in High School. Times, they are a changing.
Scientific evidence shows that men are better at math and perception of space. Just as women are better at other activities.
There is a Discovery Channel program showing a woman who wanted to become a man. She performed strength tests and tests of logic and mathematics before taking male hormones (testosterone). After weeks of taking the hormone, in addition to being physically stronger, it was significantly better in math and logic tests.
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On January 26 2011 07:14 skipdog172 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 07:11 travis wrote:On January 26 2011 07:06 Jago wrote:On January 26 2011 06:58 travis wrote:On January 26 2011 06:56 Jago wrote:On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:
You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start.
They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start. Right and this of course has everything to do with genetics and nothing at all to do with the way parents raise their children and set their expectations, am i right? You're sarcastic but yes, that is correct. Most parents aren't teaching their boys math between ages 2 and 5 while ignoring their girls. Please point to studies proving that among children aged 2 to 5, boys are more tilted towards performing better at math given the same environment for both. really? you're really going to make me look for studies, which may or may not have done, on something that is already generally accepted as truth and has been seen time and time again? you're actually claiming it isn't the case that boys who are initially being taught math, in general, perform better than girls? fine, i'll see if I can find anything Sorry Travis, but I just googled "boys better than girls at math" and google came back exploding with article after article about how researchers have proven this to be a myth. The studies essentially show that countries that have gender equality(say, Sweden), show no difference in math abilities. In countries that do not have gender equality(Turkey), boys had higher math scores. Some of the articles I looked at were looking at 15 year olds and some going younger. The consensus seems to be that nothing biological makes girls have weaker math abilities. I highly doubt that girls 2-5 are worse at math than boys 2-5. You will have to cite at least SOME evidence before going on about how it is "already generally accepted as truth".
yeah, and it's almost all the exact same article that clearly already had the agenda of proving that women are just as good as men. did u even read those studies? they aren't measuring aptitude, they are measuring knowledge (what you've learned)
it's not that easy to wade through these pages and just "find studies on the brains of babies in regards to math". I found this:
Neuroscience research, including MRI studies of male and female brains, suggests that brain function -- along with related hormonal differences -- creates a tendency for males to have better spatial thinking skills, and females to be stronger in some realms of verbal expression. Females even tend to use verbal strategies in spatial thinking, whereas in most male brains, verbal and spatial thinking are more distinct. Liben and colleagues published a study in 2008 suggesting that babies as young as three months old show gender differences in spatial thinking. For the study, researchers showed babies images of the number 1 at various angles. Then, each baby was simultaneously shown two new images, the number 1 at an angle they hadn’t seen before, and a mirror image of the number 1.
http://www.physorg.com/news193592810.html
but I think it goes deeper than that. men and women's brains are not the same... we already knew that. why do people act like they are.
and just so it's clear.... I never wanted to suggest that environment/society didn't play a role in what women have accomplished! certainly it does. but we aren't talking about just anything here, we are talking about being up at the very top of something that is very competitive and requires a very specific skillset.
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They are capable of the same things, but as time progresses, they are engendered and split, with different values and goals imbued upon them by society.
Well, when the first civilizations developed nobody sat down designing gender or talking about it, yet gender existed and expressed itself naturally in the way early civilizations were organized.
There are biological differences in body and brain, obviously. Where else would character and talent come from if not from our biology? So gender is a natural thing because culture is a natural thing. Thinking is biologically founded, so if the biology is different, so is thinking, is it not?
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A girl being in the top of a competitive sport is not impossible, Judit Polgar was in the top 10 of the world during her prime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judit_Polgár
Also an awesome quote
The former World Champion Garry Kasparov wrote that, based upon her games, "if to 'play like a girl' meant anything in chess, it would mean relentless aggression.
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If any of you actually think that the science around whether men or women are better at math, spatial reasoning, etc. is actually worth founding an opinion on, then I question your sanity. The male/female thing insofar as predispositions to academic achievement go is such a hotly contested issue that it has, like most of global warming "science," transcended any hope of objective study. Right now the mood is such that if you say "we have shown in this specific instance that one gender is slightly better at a thing than another," people will read it and go "Zomg so sexist" if it says guys are better at a thing but "ah ha I knew it, girl power for lyfe!" if women do better.
The only thing we can say with certainty is that it's irrelevant for this discussion. Does it matter whether society or genetics makes women not play games as much, or do more math, or what have you? No, the only thing that matters is simply the fact that they don't, regardless of cause. It is easily demonstrable that women, for one reason or another, don't play as much StarCraft as men. Perhaps its due to a lack of ability, perhaps due to societal discouragement. In any case, if you don't have a lot of women playing, you can't expect them to achieve very much. There's simply too small a population to have much of a chance of producing someone truly outstanding.
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On January 26 2011 07:20 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 07:14 skipdog172 wrote:On January 26 2011 07:11 travis wrote:On January 26 2011 07:06 Jago wrote:On January 26 2011 06:58 travis wrote:On January 26 2011 06:56 Jago wrote:On January 26 2011 06:52 travis wrote:
You're just ignoring blatant strong evidence to the contrary. Boys, in general, are better at math. Right from the start.
They also are more competitive in sports and games, right from the start. Right and this of course has everything to do with genetics and nothing at all to do with the way parents raise their children and set their expectations, am i right? You're sarcastic but yes, that is correct. Most parents aren't teaching their boys math between ages 2 and 5 while ignoring their girls. Please point to studies proving that among children aged 2 to 5, boys are more tilted towards performing better at math given the same environment for both. really? you're really going to make me look for studies, which may or may not have done, on something that is already generally accepted as truth and has been seen time and time again? you're actually claiming it isn't the case that boys who are initially being taught math, in general, perform better than girls? fine, i'll see if I can find anything Sorry Travis, but I just googled "boys better than girls at math" and google came back exploding with article after article about how researchers have proven this to be a myth. The studies essentially show that countries that have gender equality(say, Sweden), show no difference in math abilities. In countries that do not have gender equality(Turkey), boys had higher math scores. Some of the articles I looked at were looking at 15 year olds and some going younger. The consensus seems to be that nothing biological makes girls have weaker math abilities. I highly doubt that girls 2-5 are worse at math than boys 2-5. You will have to cite at least SOME evidence before going on about how it is "already generally accepted as truth". yeah, and it's almost all the exact same article that clearly already had the agenda of proving that women are just as good as men. did u even read those studies? they aren't measuring aptitude, they are measuring knowledge (what you've learned) it's not that easy to wade through these pages and just "find studies on the brains of babies in regards to math". I found this: Show nested quote +
Neuroscience research, including MRI studies of male and female brains, suggests that brain function -- along with related hormonal differences -- creates a tendency for males to have better spatial thinking skills, and females to be stronger in some realms of verbal expression. Females even tend to use verbal strategies in spatial thinking, whereas in most male brains, verbal and spatial thinking are more distinct. Liben and colleagues published a study in 2008 suggesting that babies as young as three months old show gender differences in spatial thinking. For the study, researchers showed babies images of the number 1 at various angles. Then, each baby was simultaneously shown two new images, the number 1 at an angle they hadn’t seen before, and a mirror image of the number 1.
http://www.physorg.com/news193592810.htmlbut I think it goes deeper than that. men and women's brains are not the same... we already knew that. why do people act like they are. and just so it's clear.... I never wanted to suggest that environment/society didn't play a role in what women have accomplished! certainly it does. but we aren't talking about just anything here, we are talking about being up at the very top of something that is very competitive and requires a very specific skillset.
no one's suggesting there aren't any sex differences. there obviously are, because we have different sex hormones going around.
the question is, do these differences in function in a very specific experiment (such as their test in your article mentioning "spacial thinking") make up the difference in performance in a fully functional organism? no scientist will claim that performance in this spacial thinking test encompasses x % of the total performance when doing math - because we don't know. it's just ONE of many ways to test a very ambiguous behavioural trait, and it cannot be used to generalize that men are just better than females at math.
most of the angst in this thread is directed at people who are claiming the end-all variable that results in so few female progamers is that they are simply biologically less "competitive" or just inferior to males. no one's being a white knight when arguing against that, it's simply arguing against a bunch of misinformed bs.
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So what about sports, physical sports, men are different than women and because their bodies are made a different way they can do things women can't. So why is it suddenly so far fetched that men, in general, could do things mentally that women can't, or at least that they don't? (IN GENERAL) I mean, we've already agreed that men and women have different brains.
Honestly have none of you noticed the general differences in the way men and women think about things...? The general differences between their focuses and interests?
I don't want to piss women off, I am not saying it's good or bad, and I am not saying there aren't exceptions. I just can't believe people's ability to deny what is obvious and right in front of their face. Women aren't top starcraft players because they aren't built in a way that promotes that. It's not society. Society isn't keeping women from playing starcraft. Jeeeeesus christ.
and again, yes, there are exceptions. plenty of exceptions.
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Gender biasing.
Oh, hell, was that heavy. Here, let me try again: gender biasing is why the statistics say that men are better at math than women.
For fuck's sake, is there any way this can be articulated clearly? Why, yes. Yes there is.
Contrary to Benbow and Stanley's conclusion, our data suggest that social and attitudinal factors have a greater influence on junior and high school students' grades and enrollment in mathematics courses than do variations in mathematical aptitude. Further, our data suggest that sex differences in mathematical achievement and attitudes are largely due to sex differences in math anxiety; the gender-stereotyped beliefs of parents, especially mothers; and the value students attach to mathematics.
+ Show Spoiler [Citation] +Social Forces Shape Math Attitudes and Performance Jacquelynne S. Eccles and Janis E. Jacobs Signs Vol. 11, No. 2 (Winter, 1986), pp. 367-380 Published by: The University of Chicago Press Article Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3174058
Essentially, it's the phenomenon of suggestion: if someone believes that their gender is worse at math, they will do worse at math... as a direct consequence.
Social conditioning thus plays an effing huge role.
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EPT
