EPTSC2 Ladder Analysis: Division Tiers - Page 2
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cocosoft
Sweden1068 Posts
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
(3:14:16 PM) XXX: so you are 2k in S-rank (3:14:23 PM) XXX: you play someone at 2200 on B rank (3:14:39 PM) XXX: it actually matches you as 2126(you) vs 2200 (3:14:50 PM) XXX: according to this guy's math and assumption (3:15:04 PM) XXX: so thats why someone who might be 100+ pts over you is only slightly favored or worse (3:15:34 PM) XXX: no idea how they decided which divisions are which rank. Also, I would guess that divisions can rank up since there are so many S-class | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12236 Posts
On November 18 2010 07:11 DooMDash wrote: So this is how my friend interpreted your post, feel free to correct him: (3:14:16 PM) XXX: so you are 2k in S-rank (3:14:23 PM) XXX: you play someone at 2200 on B rank (3:14:39 PM) XXX: it actually matches you as 2126(you) vs 2200 (3:14:50 PM) XXX: according to this guy's math and assumption (3:15:04 PM) XXX: so thats why someone who might be 100+ pts over you is only slightly favored or worse (3:15:34 PM) XXX: no idea how they decided which divisions are which rank. Also, I would guess that divisions can rank up since there are so many S-class The Favored system compares your displayed rating with your opponent's MMR, so that's invalid right from the start. You also can't change divisions, so you can't actually "rank up" in that sense. On top of that, this only covers the Top 200 so it's not too surprising that the Top 200 is dominated by S-Rank divisions. We don't know how things break down beyond the Top 200. | ||
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Shadowed
United States679 Posts
EGStrifeCo, 2694 points HasHe, 2646 points dKiller, 2642 points Baz, 2690 points | ||
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
On November 18 2010 07:26 Excalibur_Z wrote: The Favored system compares your displayed rating with your opponent's MMR, so that's invalid right from the start. You also can't change divisions, so you can't actually "rank up" in that sense. On top of that, this only covers the Top 200 so it's not too surprising that the Top 200 is dominated by S-Rank divisions. We don't know how things break down beyond the Top 200. So after the initial placement ( being put in the division ), your division no longer matters for anything else? Like your MMR just puts you in a better division, and nothing more? | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12236 Posts
On November 18 2010 07:33 Shadowed wrote: The ones who are top 100 I have data on, here's the ones I was able to grab that you needed data on: EGStrifeCo, 2694 points HasHe, 2646 points dKiller, 2642 points Baz, 2690 points Thanks Shadowed, updated. Doesn't add any new information but it does cement my conclusions. More validation is always a plus =) | ||
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Shadowed
United States679 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12236 Posts
On November 18 2010 07:36 DooMDash wrote: So after the initial placement ( being put in the division ), your division no longer matters for anything else? Like your MMR just puts you in a better division, and nothing more? Your MMR determines your opponents. It transcends leagues, divisions, everything. Your division doesn't really do anything but show your points plus whatever your division modifier is. | ||
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
On November 18 2010 07:43 Excalibur_Z wrote: Your MMR determines your opponents. It transcends leagues, divisions, everything. Your division doesn't really do anything but show your points plus whatever your division modifier is. I don't think I understand the division modifier then ( what it is / does ). I guess this isn't my strong point hah. | ||
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stupidhydro
United States216 Posts
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
And it totally makes sense now why David Kim, who is in Scout Kilo (an E-Rank division) is always way lower in the top 200 than in Sc2 ranks, because his actual rating is always 315 points less than displayed. | ||
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
On November 18 2010 07:58 Wargizmo wrote: Excalubur_Z you are fucking awesome, this means Sc2ranks can actually plug these values into their website and give an accurate rating of the top 200. And it totally makes sense now why David Kim, who is in Scout Kilo (an E-Rank division) is always way lower in the top 200 than in Sc2 ranks, because his actual rating is always 315 points less than displayed. So this is how it works? Because this would make sense to me then. So in theory don't you have an easier time being in the top 200 if you are in these S ranked divisions? | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On November 18 2010 08:05 DooMDash wrote: So this is how it works? Because this would make sense to me then. So in theory don't you have an easier time being in the top 200 if you are in these S ranked divisions? It's not that you'll have an easier time, it's that your region rank will reflect more accurately with what your ladder points reveal. So, if you have the points to be in the top200 and you're in an s-ranked division, you will more likely make it into the top200. However, if you have the points to be in the top200 while being in some bottom division, you're going to be surprised when your name isn't on the list. EDIT: There is also a profile here, that isn't in the top200, but had the points. His division isn't listed at a,b,c,d, or e. http://sc2ranks.com/us/2101473/PhilDeezNutZ | ||
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
On November 18 2010 06:42 Excalibur_Z wrote: I think it only matters for initial placement. For example, maybe one division has an MMR range of 1000-1100, another is 1100-1200, and so forth. If you get placed in that 1000-1100 one, that would just mean your MMR was between 1000 and 1100 when you got placed. The MMR ranges for the division wouldn't change even if the average MMR of the members changed. That would be my estimation. That would be a pretty accurate assumption, otherwise you'd have people suddenly gaining or losing 63 points because their division changed ranks. | ||
Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
On November 18 2010 08:05 DooMDash wrote: So this is how it works? Because this would make sense to me then. So in theory don't you have an easier time being in the top 200 if you are in these S ranked divisions? Not really, because when people in an E-class division are placed initially they get given 315 free bonus points, so their rating is always going to be 315 higher than what it should be no matter what. That's why some people lose a ton of points when they get promoted and others don't lose much at all. If Dayvie for example had been placed in Medic Mu and played exactly the same games as he has done already, then he would have exactly 315 points less now than what he currently has but would be in exactly the same position on the top 200 list (because of the division). | ||
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Shadowed
United States679 Posts
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Sniffy
Australia290 Posts
On November 18 2010 08:27 Shadowed wrote: The part I'm wondering is, how do they define ranks? As far as I know, divisions are created on the fly based on demand, so the assignment of rank makes little sense. It's like they really really don't want people to know how good they are/aren't. | ||
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god deezy yo
49 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12236 Posts
On November 18 2010 08:44 god deezy yo wrote: Maybe I'm missing something here but how does this fit in with this? 91 Mura 482-420 2404 Medic Mu 97 LuckyFool 464-374 2423 Medic Mu LuckyFool's score wasn't bolded, which means I couldn't verify that that was his actual rating at the time of the Top 200 snapshot. However, going by what I discovered by finishing the Top 200, where Infestor Pepper is +126 points and LuckyFool is tied for 97th according to Blizzard's rankings, we can confirm that LuckyFool's actual rating at the time of the snapshot was 2394, not 2423. 97 LuckyFool 464-374 2423 Medic Mu 97 SKU 188-128 2520 Infestor Pepper The reason LuckyFool's rating couldn't be verified was because he played too many games since Friday (when the Top 200 snapshot was taken) and Battle.net's match history only covers the last 25 games played. That means he could have played a bunch of 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, or Custom games which would push his 1v1 ladder games off the 25 most recent list. EDIT: Shadowed says he has data for the top 100 so he may be able to confirm that 2394 is the correct score. | ||
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