We need people like you making maps for Blizzard.

They are good with the "art" part of maps and make them look nice and cool but when it comes down to absolute balance they just shit bricks and smoke weed while they do it which just brings out ridiculous maps or small simple problems that makes one wonder how the hell they managed to screw that up...

These updates need to be added to the map like now.

Durp

Canada3117 Posts

November 17 2010 19:38 GMT

#62

Love the changes, though I was hoping you'd move the island CLOSER, as it was in the beta, so that Protoss could blink back and forth between the island and the mains. I feel that would really open this map up to a whole new dynamic, and would also eliminate the q.q'ing about this map being favoured for zerg, since now zerg HAS to watch for protoss main harass, which outside of air units was rarely an issue prior.

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

November 17 2010 19:51 GMT

#63

Thanks for all the responses guys.

I posted some copies of the thread on some other community websites, and we've got one of TL's lovely lovely translators working on translating the thread into Korean so it can be posted on PlayXP.

Here's the other threads:
Starcraftarena.net - http://starcraftarena.net/forum/index.php?topic=32761.0
Root gaming - http://www.root-gaming.com/forum/mapmaking/496
VT gaming - http://vtgaming.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=410

I tried to put it on sc2mapster and the EG forums as well, but the EG forums were confusing, and for some reason sc2mapster won't let me make an account.

Are there any other community sites that I'm missing? Trying to get as many people to see the thing as possible.

Moonling

United States987 Posts

November 17 2010 21:08 GMT

#64

It's about time maybe i won't get ROFL stopmed by slow push 2 base colli

Pughy

Wales662 Posts

November 17 2010 23:02 GMT

#65

The OP posted this same topic at SCA.net (link is in another one of his posts above mine). Apparently the war in iraq is more comparable to starcraft then football to starcraft.

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

November 18 2010 01:43 GMT

#66

Added some replies from the VT gaming forums by the VT guys.

Noxie

United States2227 Posts

November 18 2010 01:52 GMT

#67

Good changes, but im going to be honest some of the things I love in starcraft are advantages from certain positions. Instead of making it equal why not change something on the other side of the map.

arterian

Canada1157 Posts

November 18 2010 02:22 GMT

#68

In my opinion, both spawns should be worse off for zerg. It's the least inventive way possible of making that map less zerg-friendly.

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

November 18 2010 05:00 GMT

#69

I've had a number of progamers voice concerns about the doodads at the top screwing up units pathing down the ramp. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that there's a good way to fix this and keep the number of buildings required to wall here even on both spawns.

But how's this for a compromise:
[image loading]

Instead of both doodads at the top, moved one to the bottom to minimize the pathing concerns and keep the choke the same size.

MusiK

United States302 Posts

November 18 2010 07:11 GMT

#70

Impressive thread.

I think this map could become a classic, and the changes will definetly help that.

The days where every map was a crazy macro map is gone.... I am diggin the diversity, and I hope blizzard, with the help of the community, builds more interesting maps like this that promote newer ways of play.

.kv

United States2332 Posts

November 18 2010 07:21 GMT

#71

love the changes but I suggest leaving a link to download the map to make it more friendlier for the casual members on TL

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

November 19 2010 00:31 GMT

#72

So, I spent a few hours in the map tester today, moving doodads around and then building 200/200 armies and trying to create pathing problems.

There was indeed a problem with the doodads close to the ramp, but I've figured out a way to fix/minimize it:

[image loading]

I removed the doodads by the ramp, and added the 1 rock doodad off to the side. Lets you make a slightly different wall with 3 buildings, and the rock is out of the way, large armies don't really path to that part of the map as is. There might be some small issues with maxed armies, but it's many times better than having the doodad by the ramp.

Updated map is up on NA and EU, and screenies in the main post are fixed.

QuothTheRaven

United States5524 Posts

November 19 2010 00:43 GMT

#73

I really wish Blizzard would implement this on the ladder. Having obvious positional imbalances in a map is so lazy

Galaxy77

Hong Kong256 Posts

November 19 2010 00:47 GMT

#74

Its definately a step in the right direction,i feel that the extra space on the right hand side of the right island seems quite nice for hidden tech in TvZ, can an overlord reach there without dieing ?

I would still agree that this is a zerg map unless you can completely shut down muta harass, but to do so you always risk falling behind etc.

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

November 19 2010 00:53 GMT

#75

On November 19 2010 09:47 Galaxy77 wrote:
Its definately a step in the right direction,i feel that the extra space on the right hand side of the right island seems quite nice for hidden tech in TvZ, can an overlord reach there without dieing ?

I would still agree that this is a zerg map unless you can completely shut down muta harass, but to do so you always risk falling behind etc.

The reason why I added the extra space on the far right like that is because there's a lot of space on the far left of the other spawn for hidden tech, that didn't really exist before on the righthand spawn.

I felt that was the best place to add space that kept the two mains symmetrical.

Playguuu

United States926 Posts

November 19 2010 01:29 GMT

#76

Good improvements. I knew about the creep tumor to ramp distance imbalance, didn't know about the others. The map really should just be mirrored. I think blizzard got caught up in the atmosphere of the map rather than the actual gameplay and imbalances on it. Really speaks to the amateurish nature blizzard has taken when making maps.

I don't think it would be so bad just to copy the left side and transfer it to the right if that's possible. The one exception would be the choke near the natural. I'm split on whether it should be 2 building gap or 2 building + zealot gap.

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

November 19 2010 01:44 GMT

#77

Aaand thanks to the amazing efforts of CanucksJC, there is now a thread on PlayXP:

http://www.playxp.com/sc2/balance/view.php?article_id=2344116

Teamliquid is pretty cool when somebody can translate your thread into a different language in their spare time, imo.

desRow

Canada2654 Posts

November 22 2010 06:06 GMT

#78

That reworks is incredible. The map needs this to be balanced. I personally hate it and hope it gets removed but otherwise this fix is necessary.

Zelniq

United States7166 Posts

November 28 2010 08:49 GMT

#79

sorry it took me so long to reply to this

first of all this thread needs more attention as it's really stupid that maps like this one have pointless imbalances. i think you did a great job overall but for change 1, I think something else needs to be done to fix the positional imbalance, as your solution creates a new imbalance where now on the right position the area below the ramp is significantly wider than the left (and original right). Adding a doodad a little bit to the left doesn't change the fact that it's just a lot more open for a number of different things/units/abilties. i think you should keep that area the same size which would mean you would have to probably shift the entire right main base down some. that also fixes 4 naturally and maybe the island would need to shift slightly too, dunno

2 is good, 3 im not sure maybe you should actually change it so both sides can be solid walled off by 2gate/2rax. 5 seems fine